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View Full Version : Thoughts on the original X-RGB2?



ApolloBoy
06-02-2014, 09:56 PM
I have the chance to get an original X-RGB2 (albeit a broken one) for cheap and I was just wondering how it stacks up today. I plan on using it for testing RGB mods alongside my PVM and maybe keep it as a backup for my PVMs.

mr_b
06-02-2014, 10:25 PM
I had one. It worked well for my genny, snes, saturn and ps2 stuff with my 42" 720p Samsung plasma. When I upgraded to my 65" Panasonic Viera plasma the max output of 480p was a bit of a letdown and I sold it with the intention of upgrading to a xrgb mini so I could get 1080p. It was great on the original plasma. I guess it all depends on what you are going to be using it for. The XRGB2 does do well for supergun use as it can take the off sync's some pcb's have.

wataru330
06-03-2014, 12:43 PM
The OG is my favorite, for the above mentioned supergun versatility. If you can get it cheep, go for it!

ebinsugewa
06-04-2014, 06:57 AM
The XRGB2 does do well for supergun use as it can take the off sync's some pcb's have.

Can you elaborate on that a bit? I dumb.

ApolloBoy
06-05-2014, 06:47 PM
So I wound up getting the XRGB-2 after all, and now I'm trying to figure out what could have caused it to become broken before I pick it up later this month. The seller suspects that it may have bad caps, is that a common problem at all on the XRGB-2? I've heard some people report cap-related issues with the XRGB-2plus but I haven't seen much information on the original.

Thamiel
06-05-2014, 06:49 PM
Take a look at the power jack I'd say, the one on mine was a little loose. Would occasionally cut out.

Dark Sakul
06-05-2014, 07:18 PM
I believe the XRGB2, RXGB 2 PLUS and the XRGB 3 are far superior to the Framemeister XRGB MINI

I am enough of a Videophile where I want crisp clear graphics and as little lag as possible.
The Framemeister XRGB MINI has 24 ms of input lag.

The OG XRGB 2, the XRGB 2 PLUS and XRGB 3 are awesome.
If you really want HDMI out put there are reasonable VGA to HDMI adapters that you could chain to a XRGB 2.

I got the XRGB 2 PLUS and I love that device.

Yodd
06-05-2014, 08:29 PM
So I wound up getting the XRGB-2 after all, and now I'm trying to figure out what could have caused it to become broken before I pick it up later this month. The seller suspects that it may have bad caps, is that a common problem at all on the XRGB-2? I've heard some people report cap-related issues with the XRGB-2plus but I haven't seen much information on the original.

One common occurrence is people plugging in euro Scart cables rather than jp21. And since the 5v pin is connected on a different pin...

ApolloBoy
06-05-2014, 09:44 PM
One common occurrence is people plugging in euro Scart cables rather than jp21. And since the 5v pin is connected on a different pin...
I just heard from the seller and he told me that he never used SCART cables, only Japanese RGB. He said that he went to turn it on one day and it wouldn't display anything.

Thamiel
06-05-2014, 10:51 PM
If you get real stuck with it I believe micomsoft still do repairs.

wataru330
06-05-2014, 11:21 PM
Can you elaborate on that a bit? I dumb.


Seibu PCBs, & PGM are @ like 58.3 hz or something jankedy, while most everything else NTSC runs @ 60hz.

Older XRGBs handle this no sweat, and the vid syncs up fine.

mr_b
06-05-2014, 11:30 PM
There are some arcade pcb's have sub 54hz sync rates and the xrgb2+ and later models have problems with them. I know Raiden II is one such board. The xrgb2 has no issues with the sync rates on those boards. In addition to Raiden II, I know some Midway boards like MK2 are also below 54hz. If you take a look here there is a wealth of information on the different upscalers. http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/micomsoft.html

Adderall
06-05-2014, 11:47 PM
XRGB2 OG handles the Xexex pcb correctly.....the XRGB2+ as well as the XRGB3 do not.
2+ doesn't have full progressive scan support (no gamecube or ps2)

Pretty sure superdeadite has a video about this.

wataru330
06-05-2014, 11:59 PM
2+ can do xbox/ps2/'cube via DTerm; but yeah, no progressive.

ApolloBoy
07-03-2014, 01:33 AM
Turned out the issue with the XRGB-2 was indeed cap-related. I recapped the entire unit last night, did the factory reset and it works great! The image quality is drop dead gorgeous too, I'm very tempted to replace my PVM with a nice VGA monitor and the XRGB-2 at some point.

Yodd
07-03-2014, 06:03 PM
The xrgb-2 can't pass through 31khz signals can it?

Because if if could, that would make it a very interesting solution.

wataru330
07-03-2014, 07:04 PM
The xrgb-2 can't pass through 31khz signals can it?

Because if if could, that would make it a very interesting solution.


Never had a vanilla 2.

The 2+ can though. The idear I believe, was to let a pc tower & TV Games share the same monitor.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/04/apysyra9.jpg

ApolloBoy
07-03-2014, 08:48 PM
The xrgb-2 can't pass through 31khz signals can it?
Yes it can, I might take advantage of that for one of my PCs or my Dreamcast.

Yodd
07-03-2014, 11:12 PM
Never had a vanilla 2.

The 2+ can though. The idear I believe, was to let a pc tower & TV Games share the same monitor.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/04/apysyra9.jpg


Yes it can, I might take advantage of that for one of my PCs or my Dreamcast.


haha, no I mean over the rgb input rather than an actual separate VGA input.

ApolloBoy
07-04-2014, 04:27 AM
haha, no I mean over the rgb input rather than an actual separate VGA input.
It can't unfortunately, the front input only accepts 15 KHz.

mikejmoffitt
07-04-2014, 02:56 PM
I have one I just got recently from another forum member, a vanilla X-RGB2. It has had its capacitors replaced, and has a new power supply, two things that should be done to a second-hand one.

Positives:
-Strict line doubling algorithm means there are no frames of lag from post processing / scaling
-The only intensity of scanlines looks pretty good
-Fairly tolerant of odd sync rates (though your monitor must too be tolerant of odd refresh rates)
-It is smaller than the X-RGB3

Negatives:
-480p only output, so if your TV has a poor scaler you may get some lag. If your TV has a good scaler, then there's nothing really wrong with this.
-Only one intensity of scanlines
-Can't do 30KHz inputs (the VGA passthrough is poor, don't use it)

If your television has a VGA input, and has a decent scaler, this will be a very good device to use. If you have an HD CRT with VGA input (or YPbPr and a transcoder) this will look the best a scaled image can, as the HD CRT will likely be able to run 480p natively, giving you perfectly doubled lines. The same goes for a VGA CRT monitor.

max 330 mega
07-04-2014, 08:23 PM
i own an xrgb2. i use it with a samsung plasma that has VGA in, and use the xrgb2 for anything i cant plug directly in via vga. i use it mostly for the saturn, and it is friggin awesome. picture quality is incredible, i specifically tracked down a vanilla 2 because the newer the model the more finicky since then. imo, this is the best.

purple
07-05-2014, 02:27 AM
i'm still enjoying experimenting with my xrgb 2 plus. i recently was trying to fix shaky sync signal and after reading this;


"Fixing the XRGB's shaky sync signal: your best option is the add an Extron RGB interface with sync processing. Those interfaces are very cheap (starting at $25) and usually come with a VGA input and a set of BNC outputs. Some feature a horizontal shift functions or multiple inputs (or outputs), but technically they are all the same. How good the results will eventually be, depdends on your display. Using a second video processor to convert the VGA signal to 1080p HDMI is another good idea, but more expensive of course. "

i mailed fudoh and he suggested to use lenkeng brand vga to hdmi scaler. I didn't know how bad the picture will be, upscaled image really looks bad to my eyes also it does't fix shaky sync at all.

so now i ordered extron rgb 203 and proper bnc cables, i wonder if it will fix sync problem, by the way i was thinking about upscaling the image and read somewhere that xrgb with gefen dvi scaler works fine. has anyone experienced something like this? xrgb to extron to gefen dvi? or maybe xrgb to extron to dvdo?

as i know extron devices does't put any lag but i'm not sure.

SGGG2
07-05-2014, 08:53 AM
I chain my XRGB-3 to a Optoma HD3000 and the picture quality is gorgeous. The chain at the moment is XRGB-3 VGA > XSelect-D4 component > Optoma HD3000 HDMI to DVI. Until recently I used a Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus. Both devices fix the shaky sync sometimes displayed with the 3. The Gefen was great, but isn't 100% percent compatible with the 3, there's the occasional screen tearing which requires you to power cycle the unit. Not a major issue, but surely something you'd rather not happen and a big turn off to some gamers. The Optoma's noticeably sharper than the Gefen but I hesitate to call it better looking, at least when it comes to scaling line doubled 240p games.

The Gefen's a fantastic addition to any setup, especially since it can often be found on ebay for $100 or less. If your input and output resolutions match the Gefen does an amazing job transcoding VGA to DVI without any scaling, and it's hands down the best scaler I've seen for Dreamcast.

With another scaler you get additional options such as overscan, zoom, H and V Scaling, masking, etc. You're adding lag of course, but the XRGB units are 1 frame in line-doubling mode so it shouldn't be an issue for most games. Extron VGA interfaces don't add lag. XRGB + DVDO Edge is the fastest combo. BuckoA51 uses XRGB-3 + DVDO Edge combo as his main set-up.

http://www.videogameperfection.com/2011/10/26/dvdo-edge-faq/
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2011/10/28/gefen-faq/
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2011/10/27/extron-rgb-faq/


There are a number of reasons why connecting the XRGB-2 or XRGB-3 to another video processor can actually make a lot of sense. The most obvious reason is certainly that your TV set is missing a VGA input. Processors like the DVDO iScan VP50Pro, the DVDO Edge or the Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus will gladly accept the the XRGB's VGA output and transform it something your display can work work. The 50Pro or the Gefen will upscale your image up to 1200p via HDMI, while the Edge is limited to 1080p. Second and most obvious reason would be the total processing lag. The DVDOs add 6~7ms of delay to your processing chain. With a XRGB-2 or XRGB-3 your total processor delay will stay under 9ms this way (compared to the Framemeister's 24ms). The Gefen is a tiny bit slower than the DVDO processors. Another reason would be the added PAL compatibility. The DVDOs will accept 576p50 from the XRGB units and output 1080p50 via HDMI - perfectly framelocked and with smooth scrolling. Processors like the Edge also add additional tweaking posibilites like overscan control, underscan masking or extended aspect ratio controls. Picture quality is great with a XRGB connected to a DVDO - extremely close to the Framemeister's praised 720p output. With PAL sources the Framemeister is limited to 576p50 output (if you want solid scanlines), so an upscaled XRGB-3's output will look considerably better.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

purple
07-05-2014, 06:21 PM
i think xrgb3 in b1 mode over vga should be same with xrgb2 plus, i wonder if they share same faith, is it as shaky as xrgb2 plus and by using gefen scaler you can fix it? seeing photos or even video proof would be very helpful, since i already ordered extron rgb unit i now started to feel its pretty useless.

SGGG2
07-05-2014, 07:17 PM
Probably, but I can't say for certain since I have no experience with a 2. You could always send Fudoh an email at the page I linked. Don't feel bad, the Extron's something every (non-mini) XRGB owner should have in their toolbox. I just ordered one myself!

ECZangief
07-10-2014, 07:06 AM
From everything I've read and heard on the subject, the further you go backwards in the XRGB lineage, the greater the pcb compatibility, sacrificing features here and there.

purple
07-10-2014, 12:42 PM
Extron rgb 203xi arrived today and i found out it doesn't fix xrgb2+ shaky sync, user dtc and peak settings helps a little bit but its still there. Lets see how gefen scaler will handle this problem. however full set of horizontal vertical knobs are very nice. i will try with 15khz sources soon, i wonder if it will fix my left shift issure i'm having with my samsung hdtv. Anyone know how can i test lag on my hdtv with 15khz sources?

Yodd
07-10-2014, 02:22 PM
I really think people need to keep in mind that earlier XRGB devices aren't ideal for LCD or HDTV's.

They are best with a CRT vga monitor.

ApolloBoy
07-10-2014, 02:34 PM
I really think people need to keep in mind that earlier XRGB devices aren't ideal for LCD or HDTV's.

They are best with a CRT vga monitor.
I'm using mine with an HP w1707 LCD monitor, it seems to work alright although I get a little screen tearing when the screen scrolls horizontally (which is most likely the LCD's fault).

purple
07-10-2014, 05:10 PM
im using it with 17 phillips lcd, picture is better than vga crt

SGGG2
07-10-2014, 09:36 PM
Extron rgb 203xi arrived today and i found out it doesn't fix xrgb2+ shaky sync, user dtc and peak settings helps a little bit but its still there.

Did you try enabling DDSP? You'll lose the ability to adjust the screen when it's on.

I just received a Extron RGB 201rxi, strangely enough the image on the [XRGB> Extron > XSelect > Optoma] or [XRGB > Extron > Gefen] now has shaky vsync where it was stable before, but it fixed all the issues I was having with another transcoder setup [XRGB > Extron > Box1020 > Optoma] and looks mint with the Optoma.


I really think people need to keep in mind that earlier XRGB devices aren't ideal for LCD or HDTV's.

They are best with a CRT vga monitor.

The XRGB-3's meant for use with computer monitors. Compatibility with HDTV's is kinda poor, not sure about the others. The older XRGB's really shine when they're chained into another processor which solves the TV issue - unless you want to keep lag as low as possible, in which case your best bet's a compatible gaming monitor.

purple
07-11-2014, 09:20 AM
Did you try enabling DDSP? You'll lose the ability to adjust the screen when it's on.

yes i did but unfortunately its same. this is weird ,whats making difference on your setup? i'm only using xrgb2+ with extron.

SGGG2
07-11-2014, 09:57 AM
Dunno, but remember, I'm using a XRGB-3 not a 2. Enabling DDSP fixes any vsync issue for me, regardless of setup. Maybe something's wrong with the Extron and DDSP is broken?

purple
07-11-2014, 10:03 AM
i noticed extreme heat after 15 minutes, but all functions seems working ok. its 45C here in cyprus those days, i dont know if its related or something wrong with extron.

mikejmoffitt
07-11-2014, 01:51 PM
Just vouching that the XRGB-2 looks great on my LCD monitor and decent on the TV through a VGA->HDMI adapter, though the adapter isn't of very good quality and jitters a bit. Confirmed it's just the adapter, and not the XRGB-2.

purple
07-17-2014, 06:30 PM
i emailed fudoh other day and here is his solution for the problem


the Sync interfaces can help with it, but ultimately it's an issue between
the VGA port on your display and the XRGB2+. The XRGB does output SMTPE timings
(720x480p), while the VGA ports expects VESA timings (640x480p).

I would not go down the Gefen road. It works, but it's unneccessary.

If you buy a new TV anyway, just make sure that the TV has good processing
with component inputs and then use a VGA to COMPONENT transcoder between the
XRGB and the TV. This will fix your problems and not cause any additional lag.

Keep the Extron interface. It will come in handy behind the XRGB.

If you want a solution NOW, get a transcoder and a component to HDMI converter
and chain them up. Both are lagfree and going the component way will ensure
that the full 720x480p resolution of the XRGB is passed on to your display(s).


anyone tried?

Yodd
07-30-2014, 08:57 AM
Silly question:

Does the XRGB2 support and pass 50Hz content? I have read inflicting info on this.

I know there is an option in the menu for V_Sync Auto/60/50

Just curious if it actually supports 50Hz and displays it correctly (which I know also depends on the display).

ApolloBoy
07-30-2014, 04:36 PM
Does the XRGB2 support and pass 50Hz content? I have read inflicting info on this.
I could try that for you, I'll hook up my Amiga 600 to it and see what happens.

Yodd
07-30-2014, 05:23 PM
I could try that for you, I'll hook up my Amiga 600 to it and see what happens.

That would be fabulous.

ApolloBoy
07-31-2014, 12:18 AM
That would be fabulous.
Seems to work alright despite a black bar on the bottom (which I was expecting anyway). That's just through RGB though, still not sure if it'll support PAL video as well.

segasonicfan
08-02-2014, 05:49 PM
I've been wanting an XRGB-2 for a long time. Really considering it now that I have an X68k and there is a special mode for this. I'm wondering if anyone has tried it? I'm hoping it is some sort of downscan mode specifically from the X68k 31khz:

from the wiki:
"Options → Low screen resolution → ON
XRGB-2 plus will be able to output at 320x240 (15 kHz) and 640x400 (24 kHz).
Note : this option should be used only with a classic japanese PC monitor (PC-988x and X68k). "

great to know that recapping fixed your issues!

-Segasonicfan

purple
08-02-2014, 08:44 PM
I dont see any low resolution option on my plus, you can only switch between 31khz and 47khz by holding up or down button when powering. that should be for non plus model which also has extra japanese pc monitor connector.

segasonicfan
08-02-2014, 11:24 PM
I dont see any low resolution option on my plus, you can only switch between 31khz and 47khz by holding up or down button when powering. that should be for non plus model which also has extra japanese pc monitor connector.

Thanks for confirming that. Yeah, must be the regular XRGB2. Any owners out there that have tested this feature? I would love to know! :)

-Segasonicfan

purple
10-06-2014, 07:26 PM
Thanks for confirming that. Yeah, must be the regular XRGB2. Any owners out there that have tested this feature? I would love to know! :)

-Segasonicfan

Correction: I found out there is a trick that puts plus model into 15khz mode by pressing left right and select butttons together and power it up. The trick works as my monitor shows unsupported signal message but i don't know anything more.

Yodd
11-01-2014, 01:23 AM
Seems to work alright despite a black bar on the bottom (which I was expecting anyway). That's just through RGB though, still not sure if it'll support PAL video as well.


Just as a follow up to my question, I picked up a XRGB-2 recently and have been using it quite a bit.

As far as the Amiga goes, it works beautifully with a 50Hz PAL Amiga. However I would suggest a CRT monitor with it for best results since not all LCD's handle 50Hz.