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Lemony Vengeance
12-20-2013, 03:09 AM
hey all,

I'm trying to revive a black CPS2 SFZ3 board I picked up from ebay.

I'm using Artemio's CPS2Black utility (v1.01) and a SuperBIOS cart to get the ROM (IDC Clean ROM) to the SIMM.

Here's the board:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dillweed22/pics%20shared%20online/Neo%20geo%20dot%20com/temporary_zps9a29772b.jpg

Here's the Jumpers (unchanged):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dillweed22/pics%20shared%20online/Neo%20geo%20dot%20com/temporary_zps14d61d29.jpg

After writing the ROM to the SIMM, this is what the game looks like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dillweed22/pics%20shared%20online/Neo%20geo%20dot%20com/temporary_zpsa7db0a6d.jpg

I'm missing something here, aren't I? I just need someone to explain in simple terms what I need to do.. I'm either really close or MILES away from this being done.

Thanks in Advance

Tyranix95
12-20-2013, 03:39 AM
Was the board Phoenixed before or after you got it?

Lemony Vengeance
12-20-2013, 09:34 AM
I got it with a dead battery

Artemio
12-20-2013, 12:35 PM
That is an issue with the graphics, the game is ok since the code is alright in the SIMM. If you have the means to check them, dump the 4 mask roms on the bottom left of your pic and compare them against the known dumps.

While doing that, you can confirm if they are correctly placed in the sockets with no bent pins.

You didn't nothing wrong, it is a completely different issue.

EDIT: Something seemed off to me, since I remember it uses them. The docs say that the board has 8 such graphics ROMs, but there are only 4 in your board. You are missing 4 more

http://www.progettoemma.net/gioco.php?game=sfz3j

Lemony Vengeance
12-20-2013, 01:41 PM
That is an issue with the graphics, the game is ok since the code is alright in the SIMM. If you have the means to check them, dump the 4 mask roms on the bottom left of your pic and compare them against the known dumps.

While doing that, you can confirm if they are correctly placed in the sockets with no bent pins.

You didn't nothing wrong, it is a completely different issue.

EDIT: Something seemed off to me, since I remember it uses them. The docs say that the board has 8 such graphics ROMs, but there are only 4 in your board. You are missing 4 more

http://www.progettoemma.net/gioco.php?game=sfz3j


thanks for the post and tool, Artemio!

The board uses 64 meg mask roms, and not the normal 32 meg mask roms that the normal CPS2 boards use. I was thinking since I had the OG board, I could get away with re-writing the simm only, but that's not the case I guess :P

Artemio
12-20-2013, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the info, I only have MvC at home in the black format and don't even know if that one uses 64MB Mask Roms as well...

Anyway, the only course of action is checking if the graphics Mask ROMs are alright.

Lemony Vengeance
12-20-2013, 05:37 PM
Just picked up one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261344790539

I'll see what I can find out when it gets here. Man, this revival is more than I thought it would be.

Tyranix95
12-20-2013, 05:46 PM
I got it with a dead battery

The Black boards are not as easy to revive.

PM mainman. He's the expert.

Lemony Vengeance
12-20-2013, 06:09 PM
The Black boards are not as easy to revive.

PM mainman. He's the expert.

it's supposed to be easy..

NW-kbKJRuGY

Artemio's right, my graphics roms may need some work.

Dion
12-22-2013, 09:10 PM
The Black boards are not as easy to revive.

PM mainman. He's the expert.

It is incredibly easy using a SuperBIOS cart and Artemio's tool. Anyone with a SuperBIOS cart can revive one in less than 5 minutes. I have two Youtube videos about it. The one LV posted is one of them.

Make sure you used the new version of the tool. The first version gives errors on SFA3 but not on MVC.

Definitely looks like a GFX rom issue. I assume you reseated all of the roms? The problem with testing the 64mb SIMMS is that I don't believe there is a dump of them in MAME. You could replace a bad one with two 27c322 but I think you would need to replace two of the mask roms and then adjust one of the jumpers.

And for the record, as stated above, the black pcbs used 64mb roms for all games. Even the ones like MVC that originally used 32mb roms on the b-boards. Later b-boards like Progear and SF2:AE used 64mb roms originally anyways.

I'm surprised you didn't tell me about this problem in PM or email. I just happened to look at the forums tonight which I haven't had much time to do. LEt me know if you need help!

Lemony Vengeance
12-23-2013, 01:49 AM
I made sure to grab the latest tool before I re-flashed the SIMM. Just for kicks, I flashed it with the Hyper Anniversary ROM and got garbled graphics. Probably because the mask roms don't have the HA info on it (LAWL) see, I'm learning :P

My Eprom burner should be here tomorrow so I'll check the roms against MAME although like Mitsu, I don't think the all in ones have been dumped. Man, that would be great if the community did that and shared that info..



I'm surprised you didn't tell me about this problem in PM or email. I just happened to look at the forums tonight which I haven't had much time to do. LEt me know if you need help!

I know, I'm usually pretty quick on the emails to you lately but I didn't want to treat you like my personal tech support. I hate it when people do that to me :P Plus, if there's a thread, more people can see the solution and contribute to the project :D

Lemony Vengeance
12-23-2013, 11:19 AM
I reseated the roms last night and no dice :/

I'm going to go to my electronics shop today. IF they have the right ROMS, which ones should I get?

Xian Xi
12-23-2013, 03:07 PM
I reseated the roms last night and no dice :/

I'm going to go to my electronics shop today. IF they have the right ROMS, which ones should I get?

You need to verify the roms first. If they test good then don't replace them, the problem would be more down line in the multiplexing.

Tyranix95
12-23-2013, 03:12 PM
You need to verify the roms first. If they test good then don't replace them, the problem would be more down line ....

This.

Tyranix95
12-23-2013, 03:14 PM
btw, what does the CPS rom test say?

---

It's like the only thing it's good for.

Lemony Vengeance
12-23-2013, 03:36 PM
I need to get the EEprom programmer in. USPS says expected delivery is today, but we all know it's bullshit :( If not today, tomorrow or thursday.

Xian Xi
12-23-2013, 03:48 PM
I need to get the EEprom programmer in. USPS says expected delivery is today, but we all know it's bullshit :( If not today, tomorrow or thursday.

Usually it will say out for delivery or sorted through your local PO then it should be delivered today or tomorrow. If it's blank but today is the expected, maybe not.

Dion
12-23-2013, 04:13 PM
The problem is he has nothing to verify them against. I don't believe the 64mb mask rom version of SFA3 is dumped into MAME.

Lemony Vengeance
12-23-2013, 04:48 PM
ok, so, just to recap:

I've downloaded the IDC clean roms and noticed that there were a few that were named differently:

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/fddc3e7c-d5dd-4549-8842-aa0038b39bd5/2013-12-23_1443.png

I tried running the tool but it complained that there wasn't a full romset so I renamed the SZ3JDL to SZ3 to match, ran the tool, then used the file it output to flash the SIMM.

Is this incorrect?

Dion
12-23-2013, 05:41 PM
ok, so, just to recap:

I've downloaded the IDC clean roms and noticed that there were a few that were named differently:

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/fddc3e7c-d5dd-4549-8842-aa0038b39bd5/2013-12-23_1443.png

I tried running the tool but it complained that there wasn't a full romset so I renamed the SZ3JDL to SZ3 to match, ran the tool, then used the file it output to flash the SIMM.

Is this incorrect?

Yes. That is correct. The fact that the game boots tells you that the SIMM is fine. The reason why those particular files are named differently is because they are the ones that needed to be decrypted. Not every program rom has decryption so the ones that do not are untouched across all regions of the game. Meaning in your example, 5-10 are identical across all regions of SFA3 and only rom 3 and 4 had any decryption on them.

Lemony Vengeance
12-23-2013, 06:03 PM
I'm wondering if the version I'm using (980629) is not the right version on the board, would that make any difference? I noticed that there are a handful of revisions (980727 and 980904, with 980904 having the least amount of variance from the Euro roms)... could that be the issue? I'm using the list on the CPS2-shock site.

Artemio
12-23-2013, 07:28 PM
No, any version would work. As we've mentioned, the issue is not with the revival itself. It is in the graphics section.

Xian Xi
12-23-2013, 08:45 PM
If you have a probe, check your LS157s to the left of the roms. You should be able to pinpoint which one(s) are possibly bad.

Dion
12-23-2013, 09:01 PM
If you have a probe, check your LS157s to the left of the roms. You should be able to pinpoint which one(s) are possibly bad.

Hey. How would one do that? I have a probe but have only ever used it for my pinball machine. I assume find the datasheet for them first and find the outputs?

Xian Xi
12-23-2013, 10:03 PM
Hey. How would one do that? I have a probe but have only ever used it for my pinball machine. I assume find the datasheet for them first and find the outputs?

Exactly. Get the pinouts and check the outputs and control pins. Usually if it's the chip it would be obvious as either the output isn't pulsing or it's all high. Check it against the other ones, the bad one usually stands out, just like Sesame Street said...lol "One of these things is not like the other...."

Lemony Vengeance
12-24-2013, 05:21 PM
ok, got the Eeprom programmer (a Wilhelm GQ-4X) along with the 42 pin adapter. now I just need to select which device I want to read from.. What model # of mask roms did capcom use for the black boards? I cant see on these chips..

Xian Xi
12-24-2013, 05:32 PM
ok, got the Eeprom programmer (a Wilhelm GQ-4X) along with the 42 pin adapter. now I just need to select which device I want to read from.. What model # of mask roms did capcom use for the black boards? I cant see on these chips..

I don't even know if that programmer can read 64mbit roms.

Lemony Vengeance
12-24-2013, 05:40 PM
I don't even know if that programmer can read 64mbit roms.
it might.. just came across this:

http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4336

and adding a line item in the devices.txt allowed them to read the ST Micro (25P64V6P)

Xian Xi
12-24-2013, 05:45 PM
Hopefully it has the same pinout of the roms you have.

Lemony Vengeance
12-24-2013, 08:28 PM
ok, progress, the two mask roms in the 15 and 19 sockets are PD23C64020 (page 04-37 (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-A1/DSAUTAZ0012028.pdf)).. not sure about the ones in 11, 13 and 17

Dion
12-25-2013, 03:09 AM
ok, progress, the two mask roms in the 15 and 19 sockets are PD23C64020 (page 04-37 (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-A1/DSAUTAZ0012028.pdf)).. not sure about the ones in 11, 13 and 17

Are they not the same?

Lemony Vengeance
12-25-2013, 10:05 AM
They're marked differently

bustedstr8
12-25-2013, 10:58 AM
Going by the specs from a regular board there is 64Mb of Qsound data and 256Mb of grafx data....the chips should all be be 64Mb.

Lemony Vengeance
12-25-2013, 08:09 PM
Hmm if I don't have the means to dump these roms and I'll have to re-populate it with the standard 32 Mbit roms, I may just convert it into a Hyper anniversary board for my personal use. That, or an MvC. The jumpers will need to be changed up though.

Dion
12-25-2013, 08:41 PM
Have you tried reading all of the 64mb roms with the same settings?

Lemony Vengeance
12-25-2013, 09:10 PM
Have you tried reading all of the 64mb roms with the same settings?

That's the thing, I don't think my rom reader supports reading the mask roms (PD23C64020) I've looked in the supported devices list (file:///C:/ProgramData/GQ%20USB%20Programmer/supportedList.htm) and it's not in there. is there a way to force it to read what's in the ZIF socket without selecting a device?

bustedstr8
12-25-2013, 09:31 PM
You could read the high and low halves as 27c322 if you set A21 manually using a socket and jumper wire.

Dion
12-25-2013, 09:54 PM
You could read the high and low halves as 27c322 if you set A21 manually using a socket and jumper wire.

And if you do that you can simply compare against the 32mb MAME files.

Lemony Vengeance
12-25-2013, 10:00 PM
ok, great!


How do I do that? I'm sorry for my n00b questions :(

bustedstr8
12-25-2013, 11:00 PM
I found a pinout for a MX 64Mb mask rom and they used pin 11 as A21. Hopefully NEC does the same.

Get a 42pin socket and lift up pin 11 and solder a wire to it. Then solder the wire to Vcc to read the high half of the rom and then to Vss to read the low half. These files should match up to something on Romident.
http://romident.coinopflorida.com/

9603

Dion
12-26-2013, 01:32 AM
Ok. I'm trying to figure out how to identify the part number of these mask roms to dump my 64mb MVC roms. The numbers on top of the chip don't pull up in google or the programmers list. I have a Topmax2 which is a very expensive programmer. I'm guessing the numbers on the chip are Capcom's. Where did you pull PD23C64020 from? All of mine start with LHMN and in your picture it looks like yours do also.

shadows
12-26-2013, 02:14 AM
Its a NEC maskrom, μPD23C64020
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Datasheets-A1/DSAUTAZ0012101.pdf

Lemony Vengeance
12-26-2013, 11:20 AM
Ok. I'm trying to figure out how to identify the part number of these mask roms to dump my 64mb MVC roms. The numbers on top of the chip don't pull up in google or the programmers list. I have a Topmax2 which is a very expensive programmer. I'm guessing the numbers on the chip are Capcom's. Where did you pull PD23C64020 from? All of mine start with LHMN and in your picture it looks like yours do also.

here's a pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dillweed22/pics%20shared%20online/Neo%20geo%20dot%20com/temporary_zps052352ec.jpg

Dion
12-26-2013, 03:00 PM
Ok. I see. Mine all have the LHMN beginning.

Lemony Vengeance
12-29-2013, 03:19 AM
I'm a bit hesitant to do this because I'm not sure where to solder the wire for Vss and Vcc. From your illustration, I would imagine it's pin 12 for Vss and pin 22 for Vcc, correct?


I found a pinout for a MX 64Mb mask rom and they used pin 11 as A21. Hopefully NEC does the same.

Get a 42pin socket and lift up pin 11 and solder a wire to it. Then solder the wire to Vcc to read the high half of the rom and then to Vss to read the low half. These files should match up to something on Romident.
http://romident.coinopflorida.com/

9603

Xian Xi
12-29-2013, 05:44 AM
You can always get it from CCX11.

bustedstr8
12-29-2013, 01:46 PM
I am not very familiar with the Willem adapter boards, but you might find some headers on it you could use for the high and low signal.
It doesn't matter where you tap the +5V and 0V from as long as it remains steady during the chip read. You could solder direct to the chip if you wanted.

Lemony Vengeance
12-29-2013, 09:30 PM
I am not very familiar with the Willem adapter boards, but you might find some headers on it you could use for the high and low signal.
It doesn't matter where you tap the +5V and 0V from as long as it remains steady during the chip read. You could solder direct to the chip if you wanted.

I was thinking of doing just this. I'll do it tonight.

*EDIT*

Ok, done but I don't think it worked.. here's what I got when I uploaded the dumps in BIN format:

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/79c2affb-0a8f-42ac-b482-de462ebc60c4/2013-12-29_2100.png

Heres what I got when I uploaded them in HEX format

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/af67f87d-7e5a-4bc3-992c-7bb4a055e34c/2013-12-29_2106.png

This is the case with all the roms. I can provide the rom dumps I made (not sure if I did them right, either..)

bustedstr8
12-29-2013, 11:27 PM
Did it spit out any CRC and checksums?

Lemony Vengeance
12-29-2013, 11:38 PM
no, not on any of the rom dumps I submitted.

bustedstr8
12-29-2013, 11:47 PM
hmm...did you test it with a known working rom submitted as .bin

Lemony Vengeance
01-04-2014, 06:52 PM
So, I got EPROMs in the mail today and plan on reburning all the roms since I can't find out which are bad, but the MAME set doesn't have a file extension and the burn process insta-fails at 1%. I imagine I need to convert the files to .bin... What do I need to do to get this working?

Thank you again for being willing to endure my stupid questions.. :S

Tyranix95
01-04-2014, 07:04 PM
Just change the file extension form .[whatever] to .bin.

Ex: gl-c1.rom becomes gl-c1.bin.

When you get more advanced, you can even try changing the file name. :D

Lemony Vengeance
01-04-2014, 07:30 PM
but they don't have any existing extension..

I went ahead and changed it to .bin and this is what I get:

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/1a05df7c-017b-4722-9f67-c4f7ee58760d/2014-01-04_1724.png

For Kicks I decided to re-burn ROMs 1 and 2 and they completed without issue.

shadows
01-04-2014, 07:46 PM
Looks like the device isnt blank.

Tyranix95
01-04-2014, 07:53 PM
Blank it with a UV eprom eraser.

Lemony Vengeance
01-04-2014, 08:06 PM
It passed a blank check before I attempted burning though. :/

Tyranix95
01-04-2014, 08:07 PM
Could be a bad rom.

Try another.

Or lower the write speed.

Lemony Vengeance
01-04-2014, 08:13 PM
May be a good idea to lower the write speed. Ill give it a shot

shadows
01-04-2014, 08:20 PM
Make sure you have the right jumper setting too on the adapter board. You can also remove the 10uf cap on the adapter if nothing else works, see if that changes anything.

Lemony Vengeance
01-04-2014, 08:23 PM
Yeah, saw the silk screen next to the jumper. It looks like the burn speed was the trick, its progressing nicely.

shadows
01-04-2014, 08:40 PM
That's one thing I really hated when I had one of those, can be so picky at times.

Xian Xi
01-04-2014, 09:10 PM
I usually don't touch speed when burning. The slower the more burns you get without errors. Just like burning CDs.

Lemony Vengeance
01-05-2014, 12:06 AM
ok, in total out of 12 EPROMs:

7 Failed
5 completed without errors.

Of those 7 failures:

2 were burned too fast
5 failed the blank check.

Gotta find myself a UV eraser.

Xian Xi
01-05-2014, 12:15 AM
In the meantime just use the sun, maybe 45 minutes.

ebinsugewa
01-05-2014, 04:30 AM
Free UV baby.

Are you using one of the Willem burners? Sounds like a right pain in the ass.

Lemony Vengeance
01-05-2014, 09:35 AM
I'm using the GQ-4X.

bustedstr8
01-05-2014, 02:06 PM
ok, in total out of 12 EPROMs:

7 Failed
5 completed without errors.

Of those 7 failures:

2 were burned too fast
5 failed the blank check.

Gotta find myself a UV eraser.

You can use a UVC germicidal lamp and a box if you don't want to wait on shipping. A UVB reptile lamp will probably work also....just might take a bit longer.

How do these boards use 32Mb chips? Can you set the jumpers and use a regular CPS2 PAL-G to address them?

Dion
01-05-2014, 02:22 PM
You can use a UVC germicidal lamp and a box if you don't want to wait on shipping. A UVB reptile lamp will probably work also....just might take a bit longer.

How do these boards use 32Mb chips? Can you set the jumpers and use a regular CPS2 PAL-G to address them?


You can't use the standard B-board Pals. You use the one that is on the black pcb just change the jumpers. If you look at my video you will see that I used a pcb converted to SFA3 with 32mb roms.

The pal can handle most games on the CPS2 system but there are some that it simply cannot like DD. In these cases I think there are two options:

1: Someone write a custom PAL to play these games
2: rearrange data on the eproms to accommodate the current pal.

Not sure if either will actually work.

Lemony Vengeance
01-14-2014, 12:01 PM
So I have an EPROM eraser coming in either tomorrow or thursday, and had the seller replace the problem EPROMs just incase. should have them all by the end of the week and will let you all know how things go.

Xian Xi
01-14-2014, 02:43 PM
So I have an EPROM eraser coming in either tomorrow or thursday, and had the seller replace the problem EPROMs just incase. should have them all by the end of the week and will let you all know how things go.

Please tell me you went with one that actually uses a bulb and not an LED.

Xian Xi
01-14-2014, 02:46 PM
but they don't have any existing extension..

I went ahead and changed it to .bin and this is what I get:

http://content.screencast.com/users/LemonyVengeance/folders/Jing/media/1a05df7c-017b-4722-9f67-c4f7ee58760d/2014-01-04_1724.png

For Kicks I decided to re-burn ROMs 1 and 2 and they completed without issue.

Also, on the Auto Run side, check Blank Check. When you burn an eprom it will perform a blank check first to make sure the chip is blank before it tries to program it.

Lemony Vengeance
01-14-2014, 02:59 PM
Please tell me you went with one that actually uses a bulb and not an LED.

It has a bulb. at least I believe it does, I got one of these guys:

http://img.ebest24.net/w20/x1/p37/cj05_1.jpg


Also, on the Auto Run side, check Blank Check. When you burn an eprom it will perform a blank check first to make sure the chip is blank before it tries to program it.

Yep, Caught on to that and added it to the auto-run process.

Xian Xi
01-14-2014, 03:52 PM
Those are the LED ones.

You need something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logical-Devices-QUV-T8-UV-EPROM-Eraser-Used-but-Fair-Shape-/121253356637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3b43645d

This one is very cheap, the one I have is the same brand but has a drawer and a timer. This one is good for such a low price. Uses a UVC germicidal bulb which works great.

Tyranix95
01-14-2014, 04:02 PM
I have one of those. It works great. And Iirc, it has a bulb.

Only problem is that it only holds like 5~6 roms at a time. And the roms in the middle of the tray get the best light and erase the fastest.

Was thinking about getting a second.

Only down side is that it took "forever" for mine to arrive from "China." :lolz:

Tyranix95
01-14-2014, 04:05 PM
Those are the LED ones.

You need something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logical-Devices-QUV-T8-UV-EPROM-Eraser-Used-but-Fair-Shape-/121253356637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3b43645d

This one is very cheap, the one I have is the same brand but has a drawer and a timer. This one is good for such a low price. Uses a UVC germicidal bulb which works great.

That's neat!

Lemony Vengeance
01-14-2014, 04:46 PM
Those are the LED ones.

You need something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logical-Devices-QUV-T8-UV-EPROM-Eraser-Used-but-Fair-Shape-/121253356637?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3b43645d

This one is very cheap, the one I have is the same brand but has a drawer and a timer. This one is good for such a low price. Uses a UVC germicidal bulb which works great.

I bought it with ebay bucks so it was like $4 out of pocket. No biggie.

that one is not bad at all, XX!


I have one of those. It works great. And Iirc, it has a bulb.

good to know! BlackIce had suggested it to me and stated that it worked great for him as well.

Lemony Vengeance
01-17-2014, 06:06 PM
Soo..

Possibly bad news..

I got the eprom eraser, ended up getting replacement chips for the ones I had issues with and finished burning roms for a hyper Anniversary conversion. While they all passed the verification, I was met with mixed success:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/dillweed22/pics%20shared%20online/Neo%20geo%20dot%20com/temporary_zps916759d1.jpg

Additionally, the sound wasn't playing at all (whereas it did with the stock SFZ3 64Mbit Rom).

I'm in the process of reburning the SZ3 roms to verify that I didn't do anything wrong, but barring that, I think something may be physically wrong with my board. Mitsurugi thinks so too. :(

Xian Xi
01-17-2014, 08:52 PM
It's definitely something with the board. Might be one of those SMD chips like I mentioned.

Dion
01-18-2014, 01:00 AM
Definitely something wrong with the pcb. I tested it on mine last night and everything works 100%. Wanna take a look at those chips for him XX?

Xian Xi
01-18-2014, 03:06 PM
Definitely something wrong with the pcb. I tested it on mine last night and everything works 100%. Wanna take a look at those chips for him XX?

mainman is the best guy in the US to do CPS2 repairs so I would ask him. This is something you can probably do yourself though. Just download the datasheet for the ICs and then use your logic probes on the inputs/outputs and you should be able to tell which one is acting up.