iScan Pro upscaler problem (losing video signal)

Billkwando · Jul 13, 2013

I recently picked up an iScan Pro to upscale my Neo Geo to 480p, so I could run the SLG-HD (it's on the way) but I'm having a couple problems. The main one is that I keep losing the signal, or so it seems, and I only get a brown or gray screen. Eventually, the image comes back on its own. Restarting the console doesn't do anything (and the brown screen remains, even as the iScan tries to autoscan all 3 inputs for a signal. If I pull the power on the iScan it will usually pick it right back up.

Here's a video:

The signal drops out around 02:25 and comes back around 05:38.

The hookup is Neo Geo (or Genesis, it does the same thing) via scart > CSY 2100 clone > iScan Pro > Panasonic Viera plasma (TC-P50U50)

Funnily enough, Waku Waku 7 hasn't dropped out yet (Edit: cos I hadn't run it long enough), but it gets crazy squiggly lines when there's bright stuff on the screen (but not always):

I posted about it on the shmups forum too, but I figured I'd check here in case you guys have any insights. I'm guessing the squigglys are from the early model Neo Geo's psu/capacitor issue that's been mentioned before, but the dropout issue is a mystery for sure.

Thanks!

Xian Xi · Jul 13, 2013

The dropout is from the caps/resistors in the old one. When there are bright flashes it goes out of the threshold.

Billkwando · Jul 13, 2013

Xian Xi said:
The dropout is from the caps/resistors in the old one. When there are bright flashes it goes out of the threshold.

I could see that being the cause of the WW7 issues, but my Genesis worked flawlessly before, and it drops out for long periods as well. No squigglys though. Just lovely Landstalker ~brown screen~ more Landstalker. I'm perplexed.

Once again, I'm reminded of the pots in the YUV converter, and wonder if one of them is having a less than obvious effect since I messed with them all. Maybe I'll try contacting some of the dealers that offer them and see if any of them can tell us what each of them do. Off the top of my head I can think of Specialty AV, retrogamingcables.com, and Cypress themselves.

Billkwando · Jul 23, 2013

OK, so after a little more research (caps/1st gen Neo bendy/roll issue aside) the main problem is that the iScan Pro upscaler appears to be defective. If you look at the video above, the video drops out for exactly 2 minutes and 50 seconds. It does this every. single. time.

It will play for 7 minutes and 50 seconds, then drop for 2 minutes 50 seconds, then it comes back from another 7 minutes and 50 seconds. It doesn't matter what source is plugged into it either. YUV box, PS2, all black out on schedule.

Fudoh from shmups is hoping it's the power supply (me too). I ordered a new one that should come today.

Do any of you big electronic brains have any idea what could cause an issue with such precision, or where that odd timing (7:50 on, 2:50 off) might come from?

Edit: An aside, about the YUV converter, I did contact Cypress's sales division (in Australia) and the sales guy offered to contact their "techs" for me about the internal adjustments, but a week a later (today) he wrote back and said they don't have any info on what the pots inside do either. Fortunately, I've basically been able to figure out what 4 (out of 6) do.

Xian Xi · Jul 23, 2013

What model iScan Pro do you have? And does your plasma accept both 15 and 31khz?

Billkwando · Jul 23, 2013

Xian Xi said:
What model iScan Pro do you have? And does your plasma accept both 15 and 31khz?

It's an iScan Pro, period. lol Guessing the first model. and yes, my TV will display anything. I didn't need the upscaler to get the YUV box to display, I needed it so I would have accurate scanlines with my SLG HD. Looks awesome too, while it's displaying.

Edit: Here's the manual, so's to remove all doubt: http://www.biggerhammer.net/mediaroom/dvdo/dvdo_iscan_pro_SiI-UG-0025-B.pdf

but yeah, PS2 > iScan > TV still fails at the expected interval. Oh and the TV is a Panasonic Viera TC-P50U50.

Xian Xi · Jul 23, 2013

I believe it's the YUV encoder. You can try adjusting the brightness levels and see if it stays within the threshold. Honestly, I think you'd be better off using a SCART to VGA converter then the SLG at the end.

Billkwando · Jul 23, 2013

Xian Xi said:
I believe it's the YUV encoder. You can try adjusting the brightness levels and see if it stays within the threshold. Honestly, I think you'd be better off using a SCART to VGA converter then the SLG at the end.

Billkwando said:
It doesn't matter what source is plugged into it either. YUV box, PS2, all black out on schedule..

Dude, I'm saying the YUV box wasn't even hooked up. I plugged the PS2 component cables into the iScan and it still crapped out. I haven't heard anything good about the SCART to VGA/HDMI converters. The YUV box gives an amazing picture and I've eliminated it as being the source of any problems.

Xian Xi · Jul 23, 2013

If that's the case then you can try the power supply suggestion and if that doesn't work then you know it's the unit.

Billkwando · Jul 24, 2013

Xian Xi said:
If that's the case then you can try the power supply suggestion and if that doesn't work then you know it's the unit.

Well, I got the new power supply from Amazon, but the power light just flashes on and off when I connect it (not even the original power supply does that) so I'm not sure what's going on with that.

I ordered yet another PSU, off ebay, that is identical to the one it came with. Hopefully that works.

Is there any explanation you can think of that would cause it to freak out with such exact timing though?

Xian Xi · Jul 24, 2013

Could be a lot of things. Most converters like signals to be a certain strength but most have a good range while others have a very narrow range so some are hard to please. It's just like an XRGB mini and it's YUV input, some things won't work on it even though it accepts 240p. If you feel like hacking this thing, you can add some pots on the input and see if that works, you can do it internal or external. If you need a box to be built for that specific purpose just PM me.

Billkwando · Jul 24, 2013

Xian Xi said:
Could be a lot of things. Most converters like signals to be a certain strength but most have a good range while others have a very narrow range so some are hard to please. It's just like an XRGB mini and it's YUV input, some things won't work on it even though it accepts 240p. If you feel like hacking this thing, you can add some pots on the input and see if that works, you can do it internal or external. If you need a box to be built for that specific purpose just PM me.

Cool man, thanks. I just find it odd that it takes 7 minutes and 50 seconds to decide it doesn't like the signal. What does the PS2 output natively from it's component cables, 240p also?

You may find it interesting to note that when I ran KOF 2003 on it, the opening movie kicks the iScan into "film mode" (24 fps?) where a blue light comes on. For some reason, I was able to run the game for over a half hour with no dropouts that I noticed, I'm guessing cos the opening kept looping back around to that part. I don't know why that would make a difference, but it was the only thing that was out of the ordinary, so I'm assuming it had something to do with it.

I popped in Sega Arcade Classics and it started dropping out again, of course.

Xian Xi · Jul 24, 2013

The PS2 I think has some games at 240p and some at 480p. You might want to try and see if you can narrow it down to 240p sources.

Billkwando · Jul 24, 2013

Xian Xi said:
The PS2 I think has some games at 240p and some at 480p. You might want to try and see if you can narrow it down to 240p sources.

Yeah, apparently the iScan won't accept a 480p signal, but that hasn't been an issue yet. I know it should be compatible with my sources otherwise, cos Fudoh did a big writeup on it on his retrogaming.de site. I either have a bad psu or a bad unit, which sucks ass either way. I won't know till Saturday or Monday, and if the news isn't good, I won't know until I get a 3rd power supply, because that seed of doubt is already planted in my head that if the coming psu doesn't work right, it's because it was already worn out.

On a side topic, is there a way to fix the neo rolling/squiggly issue by modding the scart cable? Somebody said something about a cap on the sync line. (See 2nd video above)

Xian Xi · Jul 24, 2013

What was wrong with the second PSU besides the blinking? Can you post the specs for the original and the replacement you used?

Billkwando · Jul 24, 2013

Xian Xi said:
What was wrong with the second PSU besides the blinking? Can you post the specs for the original and the replacement you used?

Here's my post from shmups:

Billkwando said:
So the power supply came, and it doesn't work. The red light just flashes. It's center pin positive 6v 2a...no idea why it's not working.

I found the same model number power supply that came with the iScan on ebay (no mention of iScan on the auction though), but I'm leery of buying a used one because if it was used on an iScan, it's probably seen hard use, since they run 24/7. The back of mine says it's a class 3 switching power supply and "+6V===2.0A". Unless the plus means something, as far as I know, that's exactly what I got. When I connect the original PSU, the red light goes back to solid.

Edit: I went ahead and grabbed the one off ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/13094922487...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2134wt_758

It says that the estimated delivery date is Monday, so I'll have to wait in suspense til then. I really wonder why the amazon psu didn't work. Even the underpowered 5v one I tried didn't cause the light to flash like that, so it's pretty mysterious. Maybe the AC adapter was just plain defective.

The iScan has no power switch. When I plug in the ac adapter, the power light that is normally solid red, starts flashing instead. It's solid red when I plug in the original psu. I've tried a 5v 2.5a adapter, upon Fudoh's suggestion, and even that gave me a solid red light, even though it didn't work, I still got crazy wavy stuff on the screen. The new psu does nothing on the screen.

The left/bottom is the original (minus the 3 prong cable) and the top/right one is the Amazon replacement:

Power Struggle by billkwando, on FlickrFlickr

Let's play "spot the user error"!

Xian Xi · Jul 24, 2013

I would check to make sure the original truly is a center positive PSU. They could have swapped it inside the PSU or at the cord level. But it is interesting that the PSU outputs a frequency of 47-63hz as most I've seen only do 60hz. That might be the thing that makes it flash. I'd be interesting if the iScan goes that deep into proprietary equipment.

Billkwando · Jul 25, 2013

Xian Xi said:
I would check to make sure the original truly is a center positive PSU. They could have swapped it inside the PSU or at the cord level. But it is interesting that the PSU outputs a frequency of 47-63hz as most I've seen only do 60hz. That might be the thing that makes it flash. I'd be interesting if the iScan goes that deep into proprietary equipment.

I just checked with a multimeter and it is center + and is putting out 6v (fluctuates a bit but I think that's normal).

Xian Xi · Jul 25, 2013

What about the frequency?

Billkwando · Jul 25, 2013

Xian Xi said:
What about the frequency?

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
.
.
.
Srsly though, I just have a cheapo digital Radio Shack mm. What should the knob be set to in order to test for that?

Edit: I tested the new PSU, not the original one (misread your post). I guess I could see if it's center positive too when I get home, but I sincerely doubt they'd get that wrong on a high profile device like an iScan.

Billkwando · Jul 26, 2013

I tested again with a MM, and the only difference I noticed was that the generic psu put out a little less than 6v and fluctuated, whereas the official psu put out a steady 6.14v. I'm guessing the official one is regulated and the other one isn't. I'll report back when I get the next replacement.

I didn't know how to test for frequency, and I had to send the generic one back, but Fudoh said it shouldn't matter because it loses the frequency when it's converted to DC.

Both were center positive.

Xian Xi · Jul 26, 2013

Very true about the hz I need to stop posting on meds and post-midnight. But I don't think it's the power supply. Is there any documentation that these units do truly process 240p signals and what the tolerance is for the source. I'm wondering if the input on the device is ac coupled at all. Usually displays will be ac coupled but this converter might not be.

Billkwando · Jul 26, 2013

Xian Xi said:
Very true about the hz I need to stop posting on meds and post-midnight. But I don't think it's the power supply. Is there any documentation that these units do truly process 240p signals and what the tolerance is for the source. I'm wondering if the input on the device is ac coupled at all. Usually displays will be ac coupled but this converter might not be.

Preliminarily, I'm gonna say Fudoh was right and it was the psu. I just got the replacement and ran it for 15 minutes and it didn't drop out yet. I would've run it longer but I didn't wanna bore my wife to tears right after I walked in the door. I'll do more testing, but so (fingers crossed) hopefully the ordeal is over. LOL

I'll probably open up the old psu and see if I see any fat caps or anything. Actually, maybe I shouldn't...for safety.

Assuming that it continues to work, then we have quite the mystery. Nobody I've talked to has the first theory about what could cause a failure at regular timed intervals. I'm tempted to hook up the multimeter to the old one and wait 7 minutes just to see what happens. Maybe when I'm really bored.

Xian Xi · Jul 26, 2013

If it is the PSU, it's possible that the unit is pulling current close to it's max rating, 2A. It would also explain why the other one failed, those types can't really push close to the max.

Billkwando · Jul 29, 2013

Xian Xi said:
If it is the PSU, it's possible that the unit is pulling current close to it's max rating, 2A. It would also explain why the other one failed, those types can't really push close to the max.

So it turns out the problem is not 100% solved, but a lot better than it was before. One thing I am doing differently is not plugging the iScan in til I'm ready to use it, so that may have some effect on my testing.

With the "new" psu I hooked it up and it ran for 45 minutes before cutting out. When it did cut out, it was still gone for 2 minutes and 50 seconds, which leads me to wonder if it's not some sort of failsafe or protection circuit. I've had it go @ some odd times now. The 2nd time it went out was after 15 minutes. It's pretty odd.

I'm going to try ordering a 6v 2.5a ac adaptor, cos that's highest I've been able to find on Amazon, and I like their return policy. I won't be able to mess with it til sometime next week, though. If anybody else knows of a good place to get AC adapters, let me know.

The seller had also contacted me to work out some kind of arrangement. I'm just gonna ask them to refund me the $18 I spent on the original iScan PSU I picked up, and muddle through until I find a fix. At least the drops are a lot less frequent.....and now I can take those recommended breaks the game manuals always talked about. LOL!

iScan Pro upscaler problem (losing video signal)

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