I'm asking seriously ...

suicidekiller

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IS there any chance left, that someday there will be new NGPC games ??? I mean Playmore should also have the rights for the NGPC or not ? If yes, why is there no support crying ??

PEACE :D
 

Giga Power

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I don't think that Playmore is very interested in making new NGPC games.
 

suicidekiller

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Giga Power:
I don't think that Playmore is very interested in making new NGPC games.
haha I know that for myself, but why ?? There are enough NGPCs out there, so it would be easy to sell some new stuff over the neostore or sth. like that !?
 

Sweater Fish Deluxe

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suicidekiller:
IS there any chance left, that someday there will be new NGPC games ??? I mean Playmore should also have the rights for the NGPC or not ? If yes, why is there no support crying ??

PEACE :D
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/rtb7/" target="_blank">rtb7 still supports the Neo Pocket!</a>
 

Ahchay

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Yup, Thor is still actively doing stuff (He's released two puzzle games in the last three weeks) as are one or two others...

Basically, the homebrew scene is pretty much the only chance that you'll see anything new. Playmore have consistently stated that they are not interested in NGPC development - and who can blame them, a new NGPC game at $30 would struggle to sell more than a few hundred copies while a new MVS/AES cart would easily sell several hundred, if not several thousand, copies at $500. As the old Atari ads would have it - "do the math"

There are about ten developers currently doing stuff for the NGPC. Some are more active than others and we're still a fair way off having anything of commercial quality - although some (Thor, Loïc, Ivan) are getting close...

Cart manufacture is going to be the hard bit...

Cheers
Chris
 

suicidekiller

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Ahchay:
Yup, Thor is still actively doing stuff (He's released two puzzle games in the last three weeks) as are one or two others...

Basically, the homebrew scene is pretty much the only chance that you'll see anything new. Playmore have consistently stated that they are not interested in NGPC development - and who can blame them, a new NGPC game at $30 would struggle to sell more than a few hundred copies while a new MVS/AES cart would easily sell several hundred, if not several thousand, copies at $500. As the old Atari ads would have it - "do the math"

There are about ten developers currently doing stuff for the NGPC. Some are more active than others and we're still a fair way off having anything of commercial quality - although some (Thor, Loïc, Ivan) are getting close...

Cart manufacture is going to be the hard bit...

Cheers
Chris
Yeah but please remember ... a new neo realease has a size of over 500 MBit, a new NGPC release wouldn't have more than let's say about 64 MBit, so the price for the Catridge memory is a maximum more on a Neo release ... I think that's not the problem for doing this shit. And btw Playmore doesn't sell some thousand copies of a new Neo home game, maybe 300 or so ...

DISCUSS :D
 

smokey

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I think releasing new cart for the NGP is viable but the problem is developpers,as Ahchay stated before the tile format is very different from that of the GB...so porting games isn't the easist of tasks...And the other problem is that all NGPgame are of a very high quality would would you buy games with shoddy gameplay for like 30 bucks when you can get the Last blade for 15$??
 

bokmeow

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smokey:
I think releasing new cart for the NGP is viable but the problem is developpers,as Ahchay stated before the tile format is very different from that of the GB...so porting games isn't the easist of tasks...And the other problem is that all NGPgame are of a very high quality would would you buy games with shoddy gameplay for like 30 bucks when you can get the Last blade for 15$??
People will buy games with shoddy gameplay if it has license tie ins. SNK was always very obsessive about quality, that's why its requirements for outside developers working on its platform was always so restrictive, they really opened it up when it came to the NGPC, but developer relationship doesn't come overnight, if they hadn't developed for the MVS or NGH, they weren't likely to immediately jump on the developer bandwagon for its portable console.
 

Ahchay

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Well, the majority of the cost of producing a new game is in the development.

A quick example (and keep in mind that I am being incredibly optimistic with these figures)...

If I wanted to produce a new KoF game, I would need...

Static graphics for menu screens, splash screens and logos, game backgrounds etc. For a good quality game, this would run to about 100 static images.

Sprite graphics for each character. Let's assume 20 moves per character, with about 20 frames of animation per move.

Music and sound effects.

Now, bearing in mind that we cannot just rip sprites and graphics from the Neo Cart version of a game. The NGPC uses tile based graphics with an absolute maximum of 6 colours (plus a neutral background colour) per eight-pixel-square tile - although it's more common to use 3 colours per tile in-game so that the two scroll planes can be used.

Sprites are more complicated again, we can have up to 64 three colour sprites on screen at any one time. This is just enough to render two largish fighter characters with enough room left over for some incidental effects (strike graphics etc).

So, overall, we're talking about at least 500 seperate graphics being produced. Bearing in mind the limitations of the form, an artist could only be expected to knock out a single static screen or a small animation sequence in a day. So, if we allow 100 days for the artwork.

Sound is, potentially, similar. If you're already paying a musician to compose tunes, then you should be able to rearrange said tunes for the NGPC fairly easily. For an average of 20 pieces of music in a game you would probably allow 40 to 50 days for the music.

Sound effects are slightly easier, maybe 10 or 20 days to produce 100 or or general effects (or it might be possible to reuse effects from a standard library)

So. Before a single line of code has been written, you've got to pay artists and musicians for a minimum of 150 days. As a rule of thumb, you can price that at an extremely conservative $250 a day, giving us a starting figure of $37,500.

Now. To code...

Menus and general framework stuff (high score tables) - somewhere in the region of 20 days.

Story boards (Doh! We need a writer! Call that 1 day per character) and intermissions - 20 days.

Basic game engine - 20 days

Collision rules - 10 days

AI - 30 days

Giving us a grandish total of 100 days for coding at our, extremely cheap, price of $250 adds another $25,000 to the price.

So, our "new" KoF game for the NGPC would cost somewhere in the region of $62,500.

So, without even worrying about Testing, production, promotion etc, at $30 Playmore would have to sell at least 2000 copies of the game to even cover that. Whereas, at $500, they only need to sell 125.

I would love to be wrong. I really would...

Cheers
Chris
 

suicidekiller

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but I think there is slight difference coding an arcade MVS release to a NGPC release. As you said for your own, you can make one character sprite animation a day, but remember only with 3 colors ... I mean the MVS hardware is much stronger than NGPC (i hope so :D ) so you also have to do more work to make the sprites 'n stuff and to code a new game. And you have to do this on all parts that you mentioned (e.g. sound channels on Neo are 15 ... on the NGPC 6 simultanous). So i believe doing an arcade MVS release isn't much cheaper overall. There is one point left : SNK/Playmore got/gets more money 'cos the sold/sell both : MVS and AES and especially the MVS are pretty expensive at their release dates annoyed maybe we should all donate some bucks for making a new game (e.g. use some "old" code like for windjammers :rolleyes: )
 

Ahchay

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Well, that's kind of the point. The more power you have (whether that be bpp or sound channels or just plain old MHz) the easier it is to produce - because you can let the hardware take some of the strain :)

F'rinstance. If an artist can use 65k (or more) colours in a picture, he or she can do the work in Photoshop (or hand draw it or whatever) and export it with very little loss. However, trying to create a four colour (3 colours plus transparency) picture, he's got to spend a lot of time aligning individual pixels to tile boundaries etc.

Ditto for sound. Writing music for 15 channels is *much* easier than writing the same piece for 4...

Cheers
Chris
 

bokmeow

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I don't ask for much, I just want to see:

King of Fighters R-3

drool

I wish I worked for Playmore, then I can say 'dudes, let's develop this King of Fighters R-3 because I know I want to play it. If you publish this, maybe 10 people on Neo-Geo.com will also buy it. It's a good idea!'

While I'm dreaming, I'd also like world peace, Elvis Presley to start his world tour, and Alien visitation from another galaxy. :D

I almost forgot, if they produce carts that means they need a plant to do this work. They can't very well just have one dedicated computer flashing all these roms day in and day out. That's another overhead cost. Probably take one of their existing plant and rewriting the routines for the CPU to do this work.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: bokmeow ]</small>
 

suicidekiller

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Ahchay:
Well, that's kind of the point. The more power you have (whether that be bpp or sound channels or just plain old MHz) the easier it is to produce - because you can let the hardware take some of the strain :)

F'rinstance. If an artist can use 65k (or more) colours in a picture, he or she can do the work in Photoshop (or hand draw it or whatever) and export it with very little loss. However, trying to create a four colour (3 colours plus transparency) picture, he's got to spend a lot of time aligning individual pixels to tile boundaries etc.

Ditto for sound. Writing music for 15 channels is *much* easier than writing the same piece for 4...

Cheers
Chris
Wahhhbaahahahah I'm fuXXin' frustrated right now crying

but sounds logical wink
damn, I always wondered if there will be new NGPC stuff, but now *sniff* ... mh maybe when my parents are dead, I'll sell their flat and produce new original licensed NGPC software tickled

PEACE :D
 

Ahchay

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It's not that bad suicidekiller, just because Playmore won't produce anything...

There is scope (and it is very much my medium-long term goal) to produce limited edition runs of some of the best homebrew games. (I'd hope that one of mine get's on there, but I need to write better games first)

Thor's stuff (linked to earlier) is definately the best that is out there now but as a community, things are getting better every month :)

As I said (and as Bokmeow mentioned) cart production is the main sticking point for any homebrew releases... But hopefully a compilation cart can eventually be produced for about the $30-$50 mark.

Cheers
Chris
 

suicidekiller

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so is there any way i could help you ? are you able to code games ? and what coding language can be used ? I'm really (seriosly) interested in seeing new stuff on the NGPC, because the handheld market is overflooded with shit today ... I mean the support for the GBA is ridiculous ... only fuXXin Ports of old SNES games, no new inventions, that is really lame ... and the NGPC can keep up with the GBA (not the same level but almost).
The only other Handheld that is really good is the GP32 but it lacks with game support, as all other Handhelds (BTW the WSC is also dead :( ).
So please respond I'm open for new ideas wink
 

bokmeow

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suicidekiller:
wohoo i visited your site wink and I'm going to read the tutorial ... later :D
By the way suicidekiller, this is off topic, but what's your 5th NGPC title? I only saw four pictures in your link.

What's the other 15 games you are looking for?
 

suicidekiller

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bokmeow:
By the way suicidekiller, this is off topic, but what's your 5th NGPC title? I only saw four pictures in your link.

What's the other 15 games you are looking for?
I've 5 games on my "collection"-page for now ...
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Metal Slug 1st Mission
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Metal Slug 2nd Mission wink
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Baseball Stars
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MotM
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sonic Pocket Adventure
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
have a look again, there are five games for sure ...

I only wanna have US-versions (except UK-only releases), but only "high-quality" games (for now ), here they are :
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SNK vs Capcom Card Fighters Clash Capcom
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SNK vs Capcom Card Fighters Clash SNK
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dark Arms
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Biomotor Unitron (bought it today :D )
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">King of Fighters R-1
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">King of Fighters R-2
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faselei!
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cool Boarders Pocket
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last Blade
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Evolution wink
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pocket Tennis
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Neo Geo Cup 98
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Samurai Showdown
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Samurai Showdown 2
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cotton
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
that's all for now, when i finished these I'm going to collect the japanese ones like CFC 2 wink
BTW if you have any of the above in complete and overall good condition, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM :cool:

eye eye

PEACE :D
 

evil wasabi

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If you only want "high-quality" games, why are you looking for Cool Boarders and Pocket Tennis ? :rolleyes:
 

bokmeow

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Stifu:
If you only want "high-quality" games, why are you looking for Cool Boarders and Pocket Tennis ? :rolleyes:
I heard Pocket Tennis was actually pretty good. Supposedly the B&W one is even better, if you can believe it. I'm going to try to find both.

By the way suicidekiller, you're about to receive a PM.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: bokmeow ]</small>
 

evil wasabi

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I own the game, and it's boring.
You don't have many options, and the computer AI sucks.

Maybe it's more interesting in 2 players mode...

I heard good things about Mario Tennis for GBC, I bet it's a lot better.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Stifu ]</small>
 

c.t.h

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Cool Boarders = worse piece of garbage I have ever layed hands on.
 

suicidekiller

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c.t.h:
Cool Boarders = worse piece of garbage I have ever layed hands on.
damn really ?? never ever player it crying I thought it was good, 'cos the UK version is expensive glee

but the game sux a bit, no option for dreamcast linking with DC cool boarders envy

peace
 
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Not since Nintendo released their GBA SP. It should rule for a very long time with no competition. It was a severe mistake for SNK not to develop a backlight into their NGPC. Its the only reason why I never bought one and its why I will NEVER own a NGPC. I have a Dell Axim Pocket PC, and the DELL Axim X5 Pocket PC does just fine for portable gaming and emulation. Its all I need.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Electroman ]</small>
 

Big Shady

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This is an incredible thread. I want to start developing games of the NGPC :D

Is it possible to get to some ROM chips, a board, and make a cart for the NGPC?
 
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