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Razoola
08-13-2012, 12:11 PM
Back in the spring I worked hard with mikew on something for the Neo Geo CD system. I have had a break on it for the last couple of months but will be working again on it soon.

Here is a video which is basically a proof of concept. I'm not really going to delve too much into what the end result is going to be but maybe this will take your minds off some of the other happenings in the forum.

Hv39y_pZaxQ

Rot
08-13-2012, 12:15 PM
That's cool Raz pal.... i assume the whole game just loads off the usb.... not just individual stages?

xROTx

68k
08-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Alright, might have to pick up a CD system for this.

Yodd
08-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Awesome. Look forward to more of this.

Razoola
08-13-2012, 12:22 PM
That's cool Raz pal.... i assume the whole game just loads off the usb.... not just individual stages?

xROTx

Yes, the PC is uploading the game from via USB on the pc side to the joystick port on the neogeo cd side. Andro Dunos is a game that can fit onto the CD system without level loading required. Just to make it clear this is the MVS version of the game.

IDCHAPPY
08-13-2012, 12:28 PM
Top work mate, love the projects you guys do:buttrock:

Rade K
08-13-2012, 12:34 PM
Super cool. So, the PC is required for this to work? Is the PC just "there" serving the files and the BIOS in the CD system does the work?

Would it be possible to program the BIOS so all games are compatible? Every title requires custom programming right? The fact that that is the MVS version of AD is the most interesting thing...

Only compatible with game that dump fully on the NGCD RAM? Could RAM be expanded?

Transfer rate is the same as from CD to RAM - that bottleneck still there?

Wonderful work and I have a million questions, so I will stop.

Thank you,

Pedrobear
08-13-2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h74ejuL0lUg

Beat by the french ;)

That was a serial connection tho.
Dude has a pretty cool neogeo lightgun proof of concept too.

Tempest
08-13-2012, 12:39 PM
Awesome! All this cool stuff is happening right after I get a Neo Geo CD. I can't wait to see where this goes. When you're ready to sell these, I'm down for one.

Oh and pretty much everything Cohaagen said. :)

NeoTurfMasta
08-13-2012, 12:41 PM
Congrats guys! So glad things are working out.

pipes
08-13-2012, 12:46 PM
Cool stuff. Good see some positive things going on in the Neo world these days.

Razoola
08-13-2012, 12:47 PM
Yup, pc will be required (mac and other should be possible also). Every MVS game would be compatable if there was a way to increase the cache.

About the cuerrent speeds. The current protocol uses 8 data lines, on the MVS we can get speeds of 150k/s. On the CD system the joysticks are hooked up a little differently internally and that slows things down to around 120k/s. we could go 16bit and double the speed in theory. There are other ways to give an even higher speed also but would require internal modding. USB transfer rates are not the limiting factor at present.

Don't even think to compare to the French demo which is around 1k/s. We had a parallel port hookup in the universebios back in 2008.

chrisr
08-13-2012, 12:51 PM
This is pretty cool, as a tech feat, and the other video showing someone uploading a demo seems like it would be the most appropriate use of this type of thing.

In the end though, what would make me really be happy I have an entire CD collection would be the development of something like this:

http://www.x360key.com/

Basically, just a drive emulator. This way you could store your games all on a USB hard drive and access them with about as minimal load time as possible without adding additional ram to the system and hacking everything to pieces.

Outside of the CD only games, the only real reason to play the CD is for the far superior soundtracks. With minimal loading, it would probably be worth it for many of the games.

genetik
08-13-2012, 12:52 PM
Definitely interesting. I was just about to sell my Neo Geo CD cause it had lens issues and it stops playing background music after a few minutes of gameplay. I think I'll hang on to it to check this out whenever it's available.

Rade K
08-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Do you think something like the Raspberry Pi would be useable?

Any idea on using the extra ram ports on the CDZ?

supergoose
08-13-2012, 12:55 PM
That's the best news i read in ages. For i while i thought you might have lost interest in the neo but this looks very promising.

NeoTurfMasta
08-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Any idea on using the extra ram ports on the CDZ?

Been there, done that. Few years ago I populated all my ram on the CDZ and used a bios from smkdan to test. System did not read the added ram at all. Think we came to the conclusion that the empty slots are just available to use different surface mount type of ram than what was on there originally. Let me see if I can find the thread.

Razoola
08-13-2012, 01:00 PM
This is pretty cool, as a tech feat, and the other video showing someone uploading a demo seems like it would be the most appropriate use of this type of thing.

Thanks. I don't want to go too much into that final aim for the project but its going to be a little more intresting than what the proof on concept shows.

Razoola
08-13-2012, 01:28 PM
I wanted to talk a little more about the transfer speeds we are currently getting as already someone has compared to another proof on concept done by a french person.

In this day and age 150k/s (which is what the protocol can acheive) sounds very slow. When you factor in we are talking about only 8 data lines through a joystick port and a CPU running at 12MHZ then you begin to realise thats quite an achievement. Our aim was to hit around 60k's so you can imagine our delight to get the speed we did. The limiting speed factor is of course the 68k side of things. I made some very heavy optimistions there to get this speed. As a matter of interest I forgot to mention it but download speed is around 33k/s over 2 data lines if memory searves me right.

NG:DEV.TEAM
08-13-2012, 01:31 PM
Awesome work, Raz!

That's really a good step forward for the homebrew scene.
We were thinking about creating a SDCard based flash card for this purpose, but after all this drama, we decided against it :annoyed:
But this is even better, as it probably will cost only a few bucks and everyone can start hacking and brewing :-J

Yodd
08-13-2012, 01:39 PM
We were thinking about creating a SDCard based flash card for this purpose, but after all this drama, we decided against it :annoyed:
But this is even better, as it probably will cost only a few bucks and everyone can start hacking and brewing :-J

I think many of us would be interested in one of these.

goldenegg
08-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Awesome work, Raz!

That's really a good step forward for the homebrew scene.
We were thinking about creating a SDCard based flash card for this purpose, but after all this drama, we decided against it :annoyed:
But this is even better, as it probably will cost only a few bucks and everyone can start hacking and brewing :-J

You'd have a ton of people lining up to get a SD based cart. The Neo Geo is pretty much the only mainstream console without a flash cart at the moment. Given the high cost of most games, few people will ever get to experience many titles on original hardware. A flash cart would make the system much more accessible.

DanAdamKOF
08-13-2012, 03:23 PM
Great work! I'm stating the obvious, but for those that don't realize what this entails, this means that someone coding a game (or coding whatever) for the NGCD no longer has to burn a disc each time he needs to test a change in code. This will greatly streamline development.


Awesome work, Raz!

That's really a good step forward for the homebrew scene.
We were thinking about creating a SDCard based flash card for this purpose, but after all this drama, we decided against it :annoyed:
But this is even better, as it probably will cost only a few bucks and everyone can start hacking and brewing :-J
I would be highly interested in this. The multigame bootlegs are "nice enough" but have their flaws. Something like this would be great. But then again, I'm assuming the price would be more aimed at developers than at console enthusiasts that just want to play downloaded ROMs.

mikew
08-13-2012, 03:40 PM
One thing Raz didn't mention is that the unit also has the ability to work as Playstation to Neo joystick converter so you can still use the 2nd joystick port when not using the upload/download feature. I'm sure most people would rather have an actual Neo joystick connected but I didn't have any of those kicking around to test with and opted for the PSX controller as it only uses 6 lines for all the buttons.

NeoTurfMasta
08-13-2012, 05:58 PM
Also wanted to add that once this is done, the CD version of the NeoBiosMasta allows you to install this bios quickly and easily ;)

mikew
08-13-2012, 06:16 PM
NeoTurfMasta is correct, a NeoBiosMasta will make your life a lot easier if you plan on installing a replacement BIOS in a NEOCD toploader. It's a very clever design, thanks NeoTurfMasta!

Tyranix95
08-13-2012, 06:56 PM
Yup, pc will be required (mac and other should be possible also). Every MVS game would be compatable if there was a way to increase the cache.

About the cuerrent speeds. The current protocol uses 8 data lines, on the MVS we can get speeds of 150k/s. On the CD system the joysticks are hooked up a little differently internally and that slows things down to around 120k/s. we could go 16bit and double the speed in theory. There are other ways to give an even higher speed also but would require internal modding. USB transfer rates are not the limiting factor at present.

....

Nice work, raz.

I'm currious about the internal mod.

The slow CD load time is what made me get rid of my CD system.

JMKurtz
08-13-2012, 07:13 PM
Nice work!

galfordo
08-13-2012, 07:27 PM
good shit, thanks for sharing

i will never forget you saving the day with sam sho 5 special

after showing us this, hopefully you will not disappear a few months later and then delete your facebook and twitter accounts, never to be heard from again

SNKorSWM
08-13-2012, 11:59 PM
Does the uploading of the Unibios overwrites the original one in the NGCD?

DanAdamKOF
08-14-2012, 12:52 AM
You bypass the original BIOS with the NeoBiosMasta which can contain a UniBIOS. It would be simple to take off the NeoBiosMasta and revert to the original BIOS.

SNKorSWM
08-14-2012, 01:12 AM
Thanks for the explanation.

mastamuzz
08-14-2012, 02:19 AM
Also wanted to add that once this is done, the CD version of the NeoBiosMasta allows you to install this bios quickly and easily ;)

From the thread you mentioned earlier I recall that there were problems when trying to close the system with the neo bios masta, but also that murray's system (direct replacement for a FL) worked fine, any findings or updates on that NTM?

Razoola
08-14-2012, 03:07 AM
Nice work, raz.

I'm currious about the internal mod.

The slow CD load time is what made me get rid of my CD system.

What you see in the video requires no internal modding. Once finished the complete thing will require internal modding but as already pointed out with the NeoBiosMasta its not hard.

Razoola
08-14-2012, 03:08 AM
Does the uploading of the Unibios overwrites the original one in the NGCD?

The video does not upload the unibios, it simply uploads a section of code from that bios into RAM that has then been modified to work on the CD system.

NeoTurfMasta
08-14-2012, 09:29 AM
From the thread you mentioned earlier I recall that there were problems when trying to close the system with the neo bios masta, but also that murray's system (direct replacement for a FL) worked fine, any findings or updates on that NTM?

Yep!
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?209620-Clear-Neo-Geo-CD-System-amp-Debug-Donation-Thread&p=3398850&viewfull=1#post3398850

It all came down to shielding the CDROM drive.

chris1
08-14-2012, 10:00 AM
EXCELLENT!!!

HMG
08-14-2012, 03:50 PM
This means work on the Neo Geo CD UniBIOS will commence again, right?

Neorebel
08-15-2012, 12:46 AM
It's great that with all the negative words in the drama threads recently, there are positives coming out of the increased activity here such as this and Nightmare Tony's thread

Tempest
08-15-2012, 08:25 AM
Every MVS game would be compatable if there was a way to increase the cache.

That's the trick though, how do you increase the size of the cache? There must be a way.

smkdan
08-17-2012, 02:53 AM
I've heard about this but haven't seen it actually working until this thread. Looks great. Easily the best way to trial homebrew on real hardware right now. I see the original NeoCD chips on the MV1A plus a few extras for cart-only stuff so the potential must be there for an expansion to play bigger games, but the extent of stuff that has to be added/modified makes me doubt it'll happen before a flashcart appears. Definitely possible though but not as simple as the attempt at trying to fill the empty pads on a CDZ.

Neo Alec
08-17-2012, 03:07 PM
Very interesting. Can't wait to see the final version. You really take this hobby to the next level, Raz.

Fandangos
08-17-2012, 05:11 PM
First, congratulations for your work, I'm a big fan, with unibios on every neo geo I had (except the NGCD)

Is it really impossible to make a PC free solution? From what I can tell the instructions of which file to get are passed by the computer but this could be implemented on the bios side.
Or at least a bootup CD with the instructions for each individual game and a storage device on the 2p controller port.

mastamuzz
08-17-2012, 09:18 PM
Raz can you post pics of the PC2NeoCD cable?

any plans on a kit release for the UB-CD and cable?

I am happy to see the Neo-cd is getting some love at last!


I am just shooting in the dark here but:
Is it possible to bypass the bottleneck by adding a daughter board with increased ram to make some sort of pre buffering with updated instructions from the bios? even a dual bank to switch to a preloaded bank from the one in use? I know NTM can do a great job on that if possible!

mikew
08-18-2012, 12:29 AM
Here's a picture of the 1st prototype. This was hand etched in my garage so it's a little rough around the edges:

http://www.epromfoundry.com/usb2neo.jpg

goombakid
08-22-2012, 04:42 AM
Gives me a reason to start actively looking for a Neo CD again. Awesome work, Raz!

420neogeo
08-22-2012, 05:14 AM
great work, keep it up

lachlan
08-22-2012, 06:24 AM
Great work Raz, good to see modifications are still being dreamt up and created.

Razoola
09-17-2012, 10:37 AM
Me and Mike have spend a few days working on this and while we have had some hiccups which need solving we have also made some really good progress.

Tempest
09-17-2012, 11:25 AM
Me and Mike have spend a few days working on this and while we have had some hiccups which need solving we have also made some really good progress.
Awesome! I'm actively watching this thread for any new news. Keep up the good work!

Razoola
10-28-2012, 01:05 PM
As promised more videos showing current status....

------------------------------------


6j7kOKL0AW4

video above show normal CD bios with pc-2-neo embedded loading from PC with a game CD present. CD audio tracks play

XjRwNQrQS0I

video above show normal CD bios with pc-2-neo embedded loading from PC with no game CD present

oyxdig2wb8Q

video above shows modded universe bios running on the CD system. In game CD loading and CD audio is not supported but almost everything else works as intended. There are some issues as the video shows.

------------------------------------

As you can see progress has been made since the first video. I Want to point out these videos have not been edited so you get an idea of the current upload speeds through a single joystick port. The unibios and cdbios (with pc2neo embedded) sit in a single 512KB EPROM. We managed this by compressing data on in the original 512KB CD bios. This gives the ability to switch between bios with a switch.

If you have not already guessed the purpose for these bios is not to play games but as a dev tool for homebrew etc. That said the bios does give the ability to load games on a system with broken CD drive.

SSS
10-28-2012, 01:16 PM
Awesome work

wyndcrosser
10-28-2012, 01:23 PM
How is the bios attached to the neo geo cd, NeoMasta socket? Very Cool, I thought the bios changes for Neo Geo CD were "stalled". very cool Raz again.

Thanks

Razoola
10-28-2012, 01:29 PM
Yes with the Neobios Masta, Brian has given us a couple for this project which has helped greatly.

mikew
10-28-2012, 01:31 PM
How is the bios attached to the neo geo cd, NeoMasta socket?Thanks

Yes, Neoturfmasta was very helpful in providing the NBM sockets required to replace the BIOS. The current hardware has an NBM socket with a 6" ribbon cable which attaches to a 40-PIN DIP socket. Having the ribbon cable greatly improves the ability to switch 27C400 eproms in and out when testing.

NeoTurfMasta
10-29-2012, 04:27 PM
I may redesign the CD NBM once this is all complete. To help with getting around cutting a hole in the shielding AND adding a memory card slot.

massimiliano
10-29-2012, 04:32 PM
awesome work guys! Thanks a lot for keeping coming!

mastamuzz
10-31-2012, 01:53 AM
I may redesign the CD NBM once this is all complete. To help with getting around cutting a hole in the shielding AND adding a memory card slot.

If I remember correctly you did a MC test already with satisfactory results and posted the process in another thread right? but there were too many cables soldered to the IM on the cd system, have you come up with something to make it user friendly?

I am very interested on that too!

@ Raz

any plans on a NGcd-UB for games? development is great but would be awesome to have a UB for games too!

Razoola
10-31-2012, 02:42 PM
No plans for unibios in CD games at this time. I see no point to be honest as the main features can be done with pc2neo including region switching. You can patch cheats in the game code directly instead of wasting cycles paching RAM.

kuk
11-01-2012, 06:56 AM
Hello, very interesting project, i will command one .D
so have you test some no CD game like Andro Dunos , Eight Man etc ?
have they the bug we can have in the homebrew cd conversion game ?

mikew
11-01-2012, 09:00 AM
so have you test some no CD game like Andro Dunos , Eight Man etc ?
?

Yes, in fact one of our earliest demos was Andro Dunos playing, check the 1st message in this thread :) This was done before Raz added the PC-2-NEO code into the bios so the initial loader booted from CD.



have they the bug we can have in the homebrew cd conversion game ?
?

What bug are you referring to?

kuk
11-01-2012, 09:53 AM
andro dunos are not a good exemple because we have no bug in the cd convertion
i list all the bug here (in french but we said bug too...)
http://www.neogeocdworld.info/html/jeux/jeux/conversions.html

so try with Ghostlop or Money Puzzle Exchanger for exemple

mikew
11-01-2012, 10:24 AM
andro dunos are not a good exemple because we have no bug in the cd convertion
i list all the bug here (in french but we said bug too...)

I only mentioned Andro Dunos because it was the 1st game you asked about in your previous post. The replacement bios is more for testing homebrew software in a development cycle so more emphasis has been spent testing testing dev related features vs. testing existing games made for the NGCD. That said, the NGCD games I've tested seem to work fine.

NeoTurfMasta
11-01-2012, 10:37 AM
If I remember correctly you did a MC test already with satisfactory results and posted the process in another thread right? but there were too many cables soldered to the IM on the cd system, have you come up with something to make it user friendly?


Yeah the memory card works fine on it. I never made a PCB for the memory card so the wires you saw were just the test. When I make the new PCB, all it will require will be 3 solder points on the board total for the bios and memory card.

edit: found pic

http://2dlives.com/nbm/cdznsm.JPG

Tempest
11-01-2012, 02:40 PM
No plans for unibios in CD games at this time. I see no point to be honest as the main features can be done with pc2neo including region switching. You can patch cheats in the game code directly instead of wasting cycles paching RAM.
How do you do something like this? My biggest problem with the CD versions of games is that you get limited credits.

Razoola
11-01-2012, 03:21 PM
You do it by poking into memory the number of credits you want.

mastamuzz
11-01-2012, 08:59 PM
all it will require will be 3 solder points on the board total for the bios and memory card.


that is user friendly! awesome B.

NSM, MC board and the PC2NEO is all the love I need for the cd system, thanks guys!

@ Raz & Mikew

so basically the PC2Neo transforms a cd system into a Dev system making it incapable of running cd games right?

@ NTM

if that is correct about the system capabilities, could there be a switch to enable the original BIOS when needed for the new cdNBM?

NeoTurfMasta
11-01-2012, 09:30 PM
if that is correct about the system capabilities, could there be a switch to enable the original BIOS when needed for the new cdNBM?

I do plan on having a switch that will allow you to select the original bios. Depending on which way I got, it may require another wire to be soldered down.

mikew
11-01-2012, 09:58 PM
@ Raz & Mikew
so basically the PC2Neo transforms a cd system into a Dev system making it incapable of running cd games right?


The new bios contains both the original bios and the MVS dev Unibios on the same rom. A switch connected to the rom presents either the MVS or the original bios. The original bios has been enhanced to add the pc2neo features allowing either uploads from USB or normal CD loading. In MVS mode the NGCD behaves like an MVS system with the same capabilities as the universe bios with the added ability to upload code to all regions of memory.

Tempest
11-02-2012, 10:04 AM
You do it by poking into memory the number of credits you want.
But without a Universe BIOS for the CD, how do you do this?

mikew
11-02-2012, 11:04 AM
But without a Universe BIOS for the CD, how do you do this?

By using the pc-2-neo capabilities which have been added to the original CD bios. This was not designed to be a Universe BIOS for playing CD games so you would need to know the memory regions you were modifying. On the other hand, if you use the MVS bios mode you can use the same in-game universe bios menu's assuming the game you have loaded fits in NGCD memory. This can be seen in the Puzzle Bobble video in this post.

Razoola
01-26-2013, 05:01 AM
After having short break from working on this we have got back to it. Some issues have been resolved and now we are getting speeds of 172kb/s. Its now much faster than loading from CD :)

What we need to do now is finalise the PCB design, currently there is no way to attach a 2up neogeo stick at the same time so we need to add that in I feel. Once that's done I think it will be complete.

xsq
01-26-2013, 01:21 PM
Good to hear you're still on it Razoola. Once it is complete this is going to be great ;)


Gives me a reason to start actively looking for a Neo CD again. Awesome work, Raz!

Totally signed. Can't wait for this!

IDCHAPPY
01-26-2013, 03:54 PM
Yip, more excellent work buddy :-)

rcantor77
01-26-2013, 04:14 PM
Great work Raz... looking forward to hearing more about this one.
Might finally be able to make some use of the couple of old CD units I have in the loft with fekked CD drives. :buttrock:

IDCHAPPY
01-26-2013, 04:16 PM
Good thinking Rog ;-)

Razoola
01-03-2014, 01:37 PM
Here is a new Video NeoTurfMasta has made of the current device in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDaug4JSIk

I feel the hardware/bios side is about done, just needs a little work in understanding a couple of things with certain file types used by some games that need to be handled correctly by the PC side software. Like the video says CD audio tracks are not possible to play via MP3 on PC. If there is a CD drive on the CD system however it does play CD audio tracks from an inserted CD.

I think NurfMasta will do a video showing the dumping of a CD bios without hardware mod needed to the CD system. Maybe he will also do a video showing the CD system running a game using the DEV part of the bios also. This is actually the best part of it for the homebrew crowd.

xsq
01-03-2014, 02:00 PM
woha, this is a nice update! Totally hot stuff. Thank you for keeping up the awesome work you guys do.

Neodogg
01-03-2014, 02:12 PM
this is awesome! waiting for more

NeoHomeBrew
01-03-2014, 05:41 PM
Great work - looking forward to give it a try :glee:

kuze
01-03-2014, 06:17 PM
Wow that's pretty awesome! Too bad (according to NeoTurfMasta) that this isn't possible with the MVS system due to the difference in mappers.

Razoola
01-04-2014, 04:33 AM
It does work on a MVS system. You are just limited to uploading to RAM so you can't upload entire games.

NeoTurfMasta
01-04-2014, 11:00 AM
It does work on a MVS system. You are just limited to uploading to RAM so you can't upload entire games.

Yeah I don't remember saying it doesn't work on MVS, a guy on youtube posted that. I can do a video of it working on a mvs/home cart board as well.

Razoola
01-04-2014, 11:11 AM
Make a video on the CD system with it using the DEV mode bios and load a small MVS game :)

xsq
01-04-2014, 03:54 PM
Yeah I don't remember saying it doesn't work on MVS, a guy on youtube posted that. I can do a video of it working on a mvs/home cart board as well. For real? I'd love to see that. Will there still be pauses for loading?

mikew
01-05-2014, 01:28 AM
Hi xsq,

I posted a video of this over a year ago actually, here's an earlier version of the system running an MVS game, there's no pausing for loading once the game is in memory. You'll also see that the Universe BIOS also works on the NGCD. Please keep in mind we've made a lot of performance improvements and bug fixes since this video was shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyxdig2wb8Q

NeoTurfMasta
01-05-2014, 01:58 AM
Uploaded a video of the proto NeoCD running and dumping the bios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1lIz3D1qEA

massimiliano
01-05-2014, 06:00 AM
Cool stuff guys, keep it coming!
Brian, I'm pretty sure you already tried every combo, but I had a brief read to the topic, about expanding NGCD's RAM, is it possible to try bigger modules in the available sockets, bypassing the embedded ram (cutting some lead)? If I understand correctly, the extra sockets overlap with the embedded ones right?
Or in case, would swap SM RAM with bigger modules work?

xsq
01-05-2014, 06:07 AM
:drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::droo l_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2:: drool_2::drool_2::drool_2::drool_2:

Razoola
01-05-2014, 06:20 AM
Hi xsq,

I posted a video of this over a year ago actually, here's an earlier version of the system running an MVS game, there's no pausing for loading once the game is in memory. You'll also see that the Universe BIOS also works on the NGCD. Please keep in mind we've made a lot of performance improvements and bug fixes since this video was shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyxdig2wb8Q

A new video like this would be cool, the WDUD should be fixed and I can't remember if speed improved since that video was done.

Razoola
01-05-2014, 08:35 AM
Uploaded a video of the proto NeoCD running and dumping the bios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1lIz3D1qEA

Hmmm. That seemed to take a long time to load, what is happening during the time you first init CD loading from the radio OSD until the monkey anim shows up? I also have to center the PC-2-NEO OSD when loading it from CD disc. I'll get Mike a new version to make a new image to test.

NeoTurfMasta
01-05-2014, 10:29 AM
A new video like this would be cool, the WDUD should be fixed and I can't remember if speed improved since that video was done.

I'll do another video today if I have a chance.


Hmmm. That seemed to take a long time to load, what is happening during the time you first init CD loading from the radio OSD until the monkey anim shows up? I also have to center the PC-2-NEO OSD when loading it from CD disc. I'll get Mike a new version to make a new image to test.

Didn't seem like it took that long to me. Once it hit the CD player menu, it was only 4 seconds till the Press Start option came up.

Razoola
01-05-2014, 10:42 AM
I have just noticed in your video that you are using quite a long joystick extension cable. Myself and Mike had issues with long cables so I'm a little surprised that its working with that cable.... Maybe its due to the buffers Mike added to the PCB. Its good news though, that said you may find that if you use a much smaller cable attached from the PC2NEO to the NeoGeo you might get a speed boost. My cable for example is only about 15cm total.

Razoola
01-05-2014, 10:53 AM
Didn't seem like it took that long to me. Once it hit the CD player menu, it was only 4 seconds till the Press Start option came up.

I'm talking about the blank screen delay after you press start until the monkey shows. I'm trying to understand what the system is doing during that time because I don't think loading starts until the monkey shows yes? Given I have never seen any NeoGeo CD system first hand maybe its normal but it does seem a long delay there so I guess something must be happening.

NeoTurfMasta
01-05-2014, 11:01 AM
I'm using a long joystick extension cable. I'll build a shorter one, but it's has been working fine with it.

I'll try the updated boot disk and see if that delay goes away.

mikew
01-05-2014, 12:44 PM
NeoTurfMasta,

Don't worry about the cable length, the cable I use is about 6' and that will be fine with the current hardware.

Mike

kuk
01-05-2014, 05:12 PM
Yeah cool news if you dumping this proto-bios, and finish this project to USB/NEO CD, 2014 beginning very well

titan
01-11-2014, 03:03 PM
Wow.
I'd really like to add something with substance to the thread - but i can't. :drool:
This is glorious. Now i have to get a cd unit too.

brb - *putting in overtime

Razoola
01-12-2014, 03:02 PM
Mike is going to get 5 PC-2-NEO's made up for sale. The price for it is going to be 140 USD + 10USD shipping. That is for the PC-2-NEO, USB cable and CD disc to load NeoGeo software on CD system. In this state it is usable to upload and run code on the CD system (homebrew that does not require ingame CD loading). You will need to find or make your own joystick extension cable to connect the PC-2NEO to the NeoGeo

The unibios part of this is free but you will need a CD biosmasta from Brian and EPROM if your going to use the bios. Only the Top Loading CD system is supported at this time. With this the CD system can behave like an MVS. The bios will soon be released with ongoing updates

The PC-2-NEO will work on MVS/AES with a unibios 3.1 (or later) installed. You are very limited in what you can do on these systems compared to the CD system.

Are there any takers for these first 5?

Valt C
01-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Wow. :buttrock:

I would easily buy one..... but I'm afraid that the best use for these first units is for developers, isn't?

The only thing that I'm able to do besides being a casual gamer is some hardmods.... in that case I hope to use a biosmasta soon....:drool_2:

Razoola
01-12-2014, 05:25 PM
Its open to everyone.

NeoHomeBrew
01-13-2014, 12:48 PM
Hi, I would be very interested to buy it but I need a NeoBiosMasta for NGCD which seems to be not available anymore on neogeofanclub.com?

NeoTurfMasta
01-13-2014, 02:24 PM
Hi, I would be very interested to buy it but I need a NeoBiosMasta for NGCD which seems to be not available anymore on neogeofanclub.com?

These will be available soon. I am modifying the design slightly. These will probably be ready around the same time Mike's PC2Neos are.

Talked to Mike, and we should be able to ship these together. We live about an hour apart, so once things are finalized I can drive a batch over to him for shipment.

Razoola
01-13-2014, 02:47 PM
jojo23, talk to mikew arrange the deal. He will sort everything out for you.

Raz

NeoHomeBrew
01-14-2014, 08:54 AM
Hi, I have got a PM from mikew > Thanks a lot for the service!

Neodogg
01-15-2014, 01:55 PM
so what's the advantage of running this set up over running an AES/MVS?

Razoola
01-15-2014, 02:25 PM
It is a lot faster than the pc2neo Parallel version with transfers. Apart from that the usability is the same on the MVS/AES.

Razoola
02-16-2014, 03:20 PM
Got some new information and video for you guys.....

First off I have to give a big thanks to Brian for giving me a Top Loader. It has certainly made things a lot easier in relation to testing although we have done quite well up to this point. Having the system however has allowed us to polish a few things given I can finally see it all in action myself. Since the last update the following 3 things have been done.

Added RLE compression & real time decompression on the data transfer. This gives a nice speed boost on data that compresses well. Its very touchy at present but hopefully we have the quirks ironed out.

Logo Screens now show when using PC-2-NEO to load a CD based game. Apart from the first PC-2-NEO screen games now look more like they do when they load from an original CD. It makes the experience better if you just want to play a few rounds.

The CD protection has been removed from the bios. This was needed as systems with broken CD drives could still trip it.

Below is a video showing KOF96 loading..... I only realised after that I had a KOF99 CD in the drive as you can tell from the audio.

Xczygyc9JHE

Valt C
02-16-2014, 08:57 PM
WOW Raz, I'm speechless.....
I was already measuring some loading times and what I got approx. is this:

KOF 96 - INITIAL LOAD

NEO CDZ ~26 secs
TOP LOADER ~38-40 secs (didn't spend much time with this one)
PC2NEO TURFDEMO ~20
PC2NEO RAZDEMO ~14 secs or less

1st round


NEO CDZ ~30 secs
TOP LOADER "don't have data yet"
PC2NEO TURFDEMO ~20
PC2NEO RAZDEMO ~13 secs or less

I still have to grab my jaw, but considering those demos and how massive the initial loads usually are in normal systems.... AOF3 and Last Blades can become enjoyable.

I hope that I have some money left soon to grab one with Mike.


Thanks guys!

NeoTurfMasta
02-16-2014, 11:30 PM
You rock Raz. It's amazing how much you have cut loading times.

For those interested in the NeoCD NeoBiosMasta, I should be finished with some testing of a new version this weekend.

kuk
02-17-2014, 08:36 AM
Great !

Hans Grösse
02-17-2014, 01:11 PM
Great work.

td741
02-17-2014, 05:35 PM
Out of curiosity, would it be possible to use the compression algorithm on CDs themselves. (I.E. Have compressed data on the disk that a special bios could read?)

Razoola
02-17-2014, 05:56 PM
Out of curiosity, would it be possible to use the compression algorithm on CDs themselves. (I.E. Have compressed data on the disk that a special bios could read?)

Some games already do that. (That's what OBJ files are). Its implemented very poorly though and that said it would not be very fast because it would not be done on the fly.

Razoola
02-20-2014, 01:27 PM
Got a new video to show you. This one shows more what its all about....

While watching this remember this is all on a NeoGeo CD Top Loader :cool:


_Mis90lj8qc

Rot
02-20-2014, 01:51 PM
Hey Raz pal...

...Can I watch Bluray MKV files on this?... That would be awesome...

xROTx

PS. Great work man...

TeamShake
02-24-2014, 04:53 AM
This looks awesome! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Razoola
02-24-2014, 01:05 PM
Another new video, this one shows a game uploading from a version of PC-2-NEO on a CD disk.

While you will get the best out of PC-2-NEO using a custom bios it is possible to do some stuff if you do not want to mod the CD system itself. You are somewhat limited though, for example you cannot load CD games via PC-2-NEO when using a boot disk.

ga8f8PRMxr4

Neo Alec
02-26-2014, 01:52 PM
Really enjoying reading the updates on this. This is great work. Please keep them coming!

Hans Grösse
02-26-2014, 01:58 PM
Outstanding work!!!

Razoola
02-27-2014, 10:31 AM
Here is a video showing Last Blade 2 loading.

n6VMv7qqwAs

Valt C
02-27-2014, 12:27 PM
So sad that I can't see videos now... God help me!!!


Edit: Can someone describe for me.... oh boy

TeamShake
02-27-2014, 05:00 PM
So sad that I can't see videos now... God help me!!!


Edit: Can someone describe for me.... oh boy

Can you not access youtube from Brazil? You could use a proxy.

Valt C
02-27-2014, 05:26 PM
Can you not access youtube from Brazil? You could use a proxy.

In that specific moment I couldn't do a thing at work and when I could check on my cell phone, the battery died......


BTW, awesome Raz, really great!!!

Cheers!

ki_atsushi
02-28-2014, 03:28 AM
Here is a video showing Last Blade 2 loading.

n6VMv7qqwAs

This. Is. Awesome.

Neodogg
02-28-2014, 02:28 PM
not sure about you, but my nipples get a little tingle watching that video


Here is a video showing Last Blade 2 loading.

n6VMv7qqwAs

Razoola
03-01-2014, 12:50 PM
I though I would have a little play today and ended up with this. Before you ask it does not give you faster loading times.

U99c9A9IdA0

gamerwhat
03-01-2014, 09:38 PM
Do you know for what language that 4th jumper is?

ysselcneogeo
03-02-2014, 12:45 AM
Awesome work, Raz!

That's really a good step forward for the homebrew scene.
We were thinking about creating a SDCard based flash card for this purpose, but after all this drama, we decided against it :annoyed:
But this is even better, as it probably will cost only a few bucks and everyone can start hacking and brewing :-J
And on a completely different note gunlord cd would love it jesus please ><

Razoola
03-02-2014, 06:28 AM
Is it possible anyone with a CDZ can make me a video?....

What I need to see is the following.....

Boot the system with no disk in, let it get to the main screen (can press a here to make video smaller). Then put in a audio CD (not a game CD) and let the system read it.... What I want to see is the state the main screen goes into after this point with the track numbers and play buttons etc.

Thanks in advance.

Razoola
03-02-2014, 04:40 PM
I have discovered a button code in both the TOP LOADER and CDZ bios that takes you into a kind of test mode for the CD systems. Maybe this code is already common knowledge but if not.....

Hold 'UP+LEFT+B' from power on to access. Be careful as there is option to clear memory card in there.

mikew
03-04-2014, 12:26 AM
Hold 'UP+LEFT+B' from power on to access. Be careful as there is option to clear memory card in there.

I wasn't able to get into this test mode with an NGCD joypad, has anyone else had luck doing so? I was able to get into the test using a custom supergun joystick wired for the normal MVS pinout however.

kuk
03-04-2014, 12:02 PM
Razoola: Someone do the video ?
if not i could

Arcade Magician
03-04-2014, 08:45 PM
not sure about you, but my nipples get a little tingle watching that video

Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kuk
03-06-2014, 07:37 AM
Is it possible anyone with a CDZ can make me a video?....

What I need to see is the following.....

Boot the system with no disk in, let it get to the main screen (can press a here to make video smaller). Then put in a audio CD (not a game CD) and let the system read it.... What I want to see is the state the main screen goes into after this point with the track numbers and play buttons etc.

Thanks in advance.


https://www.neogeocdworld.info/medias/videos/CDZ-music.MOV

Razoola
03-06-2014, 09:51 AM
Thanks for doing the video but I can't seem to get access to that page.

kuk
03-06-2014, 01:10 PM
You could but i don't know why the browser said my webpage are not secur

Razoola
03-06-2014, 01:30 PM
I have the same problem

Razoola
03-06-2014, 01:47 PM
I have seen the video now. Unfortunately once the disk was read you hit the button to start audio play. What I need to see is what happens if you do not press anything for a few seconds after the yellow Japanese message disappears.

Raz

kuk
03-06-2014, 01:47 PM
http://www.neogeocdworld.info/medias/
go to videos and CDZ-music.MOV

Razoola
03-06-2014, 02:24 PM
Looks like we posted at the same time. Unfortunately the video does not show what I needed to see. You pressed the play button, what I need to see is what happens if you do not press the play button a few seconds after the yellow Japanese message disappears.

kuk
03-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Ah sorry i don't understand this point
(because she do nothing)
i do an other one

Razoola
03-06-2014, 03:31 PM
That's just it, something does happen here on the top loader. I want to make sure that does not happen on a real CDZ.

kuk
03-06-2014, 03:58 PM
ok i upload the video tomorow
i test in the neo geo front loading and you have nothing too

Arcade Magician
03-06-2014, 09:28 PM
Sorry to intrude:

NGCDTL

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/jn4uge9r9dlit6i/ngcd.mp4

Razoola
03-06-2014, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the video Arcade Magician, unfortunately it needs to be on the CDZ and not top loader. Kuks video almost showed what I wanted to see

kuk
03-07-2014, 04:03 AM
http://www.neogeocdworld.info/medias/
go to videos and cdz_music2.mov

Razoola
03-07-2014, 09:00 AM
Many thanks kuk, your new video shows what I needed to see. I know I have an issue to try and fix now.

kuk
03-07-2014, 09:49 AM
Happy to help all neogeo cd project :)

Razoola
03-07-2014, 12:42 PM
Actually kuk maybe you can tell me something. If you copy one of the newer games and then put it into the CDZ so the protection trips can you tell me what happens? Does the on screen pause button start flashing?

kuk
03-07-2014, 01:13 PM
in fact all the copy boot, you have just an error message after 15/30 min
And i don't know if last Hope / Treasure of the Caribbean / Bang Bang Busters have an protection

Razoola
03-07-2014, 01:32 PM
There is separate cd protection on the CDZ that will not even allow copies to start. Maybe there are CD tools that can get around this protection though. All that said I think I have now solved the issue I was having which was indeed protection related.

kuk
03-07-2014, 01:36 PM
yes you have an CDZ protection + and CD game protection
http://neogeocdworld.info/html/aide/protections.htm

but i never see an copy game who not boot on the CDZ

Razoola
03-07-2014, 02:27 PM
All the information on that page related to protection will soon be unneeded.

kuk
03-07-2014, 02:49 PM
all these information are unneeded however beacause we have all original :mr_t:

Razoola
03-07-2014, 03:39 PM
I have another test I would like people to try on their TOP Loaders, Front loaders and CDZ (mainly I need results from CDZ).

Download the following. http://unibios.free.fr/cd-cdz-test.zip , unzip it, burn it and then boot it in your CD system. Once loaded it will show 2 numbers on screen.... I would like to know the numbers and the type of CD system its on.

Raz

Valt C
03-07-2014, 04:37 PM
Here is what a I got from my 2 Top Loaders:

Razoola
03-07-2014, 04:44 PM
Thanks Valt, what region is your system?

Razoola
03-07-2014, 04:51 PM
No need for anyone else to do this iso test. I already know what I needed to know from it. I will do antoher test iso tomorrow.

Raz

Valt C
03-07-2014, 04:54 PM
Well, it's weird because actually the brazilian systems have jumpers in both US and EU regions, that brings the portuguese language as default.

I think that the CDZ pcb "calls it": "PO" region instead BR(it's a brazilian portuguese btw... I guess).

TeamShake
03-07-2014, 05:15 PM
I have another test I would like people to try on their TOP Loaders, Front loaders and CDZ (mainly I need results from CDZ).

Download the following. http://unibios.free.fr/cd-cdz-test.zip , unzip it, burn it and then boot it in your CD system. Once loaded it will show 2 numbers on screen.... I would like to know the numbers and the type of CD system its on.

Raz

I tried to load it on my CDZ and got a disc I/O error (ID = 0001)

Here is from my original top loader Japanese version with US region switch on:
http://i.imgur.com/iQV070p.jpg
Here it from my original top loader Japenese version with region switch set to Japan:
http://i.imgur.com/J1SlRMe.jpg

It may just be an issue with my CDZ as its been having read issues

Razoola
03-07-2014, 05:16 PM
Well, it's weird because actually the brazilian systems have jumpers in both US and EU regions, that brings the portuguese language as default.

I think that the CDZ pcb "calls it": "PO" region instead BR(it's a brazilian portuguese btw... I guess).

Ohh, I never knew this, I need to add another region then. Does the memory card manager also show in Portuguese? I take it that means 0=Japan, 1=USA, 2=EURO, 3=Portuguese

Razoola
03-07-2014, 05:19 PM
yes the test did not work on the CDZ..... but there is no need to test it anymore... I will post another test tomorrow though.

Razoola
03-07-2014, 05:21 PM
Well, it's weird because actually the brazilian systems have jumpers in both US and EU regions, that brings the portuguese language as default.

I think that the CDZ pcb "calls it": "PO" region instead BR(it's a brazilian portuguese btw... I guess).

btw is there some way to say Portuguese that does not use so many letters and is also not offensive? For Example you mention its a Braziian Portuguese so if I do a region switch maybe its better to just say Brazil?

Valt C
03-07-2014, 05:30 PM
Ohh, I never knew this, I need to add another region then. Does the memory card manager also show in Portuguese? I take it that means 0=Japan, 1=USA, 2=EURO, 3=Portuguese

Actually just some games uses its own portuguese contents, for everything else, even the system itself, acts like an US system.

From Jamma Nation website: http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/images/tuts/cdz-language-mod.jpg

Only the CDZ shows that, but works in the top loader system too.

Edit:


btw is there some way to say Portuguese that does not use so many letters and is also not offensive? For Example you mention its a Braziian Portuguese so if I do a region switch maybe its better to just say Brazil?

You can abbreviate portuguese as "PT" or "POR" both for language.

Macck
03-07-2014, 08:26 PM
Or just like the MS Windows show....PTBr

PTBr = Brazilian portuguese

Great Work Raz

[]' Macck

Razoola
03-08-2014, 07:17 AM
I'm having a look at this Portuguese region switch and I can't seem to get it to work. Can you please tell me a game what will default to Portuguese language when the region is set to this. By this I mean without having to manually change the language in the games option settings.

Valt C
03-08-2014, 11:24 AM
KoF '95, Metal Slug games and Neo Turf Masters are the games I remember that will work that way, neither of them have language options but will bring Portuguese dialogues and other texts by default.

If you wish I can make a video showing how they behave.

Edit:

b4ogY_y79Z0

kyb4g6g6zvk

I edited but I let the KoF'95 intro to show the "SNK CORP OF AMERICA", it's like a US system for all games.

Razoola
03-08-2014, 12:32 PM
Thanks, It seems I have it working, I just though there would be more translation

Atro
03-08-2014, 05:43 PM
I'm not sure, but IIRC Fatal Fury 3 or RBFF also behave the way Valt said.

Razoola
03-08-2014, 06:31 PM
Yes its a bit weird for example Im trying metal slug2. If I go into the combat school in that game it is in English, The how to play however is in Portuguese. In Metal Slug 1 however the combat school is also in Portuguese.

Raz

gamerwhat
03-08-2014, 09:25 PM
Aren't there 4 jumpers for languages, portuguese being us+eu, is the last one for korean?

TeamShake
03-08-2014, 11:33 PM
I havent been able to find anywhere what jumpers 3 and 4 do.

no jumpers is Japanese
jumper 1 is English
jumper 2 is EU (not sure what language)
jumper 1 + 2 is Portiguese

Razoola
03-09-2014, 04:57 AM
On a CDZ the third jumper is used for language but what those languages are I am not sure.

Razoola
03-09-2014, 01:46 PM
I have spent the weekend quietly programming away and at times pulling my hair out but finally have something interesting to show......

Z4dnpW9sDVY


Please not this is very early work and is separate from PC-2-NEO but of course support is included for it. An official release is a long long way away so this is a sort of proof of concept that it can work.

kuze
03-09-2014, 02:41 PM
I have spent the weekend quietly programming away and at times pulling my hair out but finally have something interesting to show......

Z4dnpW9sDVY


Please not this is very early work and is separate from PC-2-NEO but of course support is included for it. An official release is a long long way away so this is a sort of proof of concept that it can work.

Nice! So eventually there will be a unibios release for CD systems?

kuk
03-09-2014, 02:45 PM
Same question :)

Razoola
03-09-2014, 03:59 PM
Its the plan yes

Yodd
03-09-2014, 04:20 PM
Looks awesome Raz!!

mastamuzz
03-09-2014, 06:13 PM
Its the plan yes

Wow awesome Raz I been waiting for so long to have a UB for the cd system!!!

and PC2NEO support makes that even better!

TeamShake
03-09-2014, 09:43 PM
This is looking great!

kuze
03-09-2014, 09:52 PM
Hell yeah! Raz is making the CD systems much more attractive. Keep up the great work

Yodd
03-09-2014, 10:08 PM
If only you could replace the cdrom with a custom SD card interface and SD iso loader setup...

GohanX
03-09-2014, 10:21 PM
Hoooleee shit Raz! I love you so much!

Arcade Magician
03-10-2014, 02:15 AM
I can't believe this is about to happen... remember the 52x CD drive (AKA impossible mod)????

hungar
03-10-2014, 05:35 AM
This is so frickin awesome, hats off to Razoola and all involved!

Razoola
03-11-2014, 01:04 PM
Here is a new ISO that I need testing on all types of CD systems. When run it will return a single Word value. Pressing A will run the test again, hopefully the number will be the same so it will look like nothing happened. Pressing C should exit the test. You can get it from http://unibios.free.fr/cd-cdz-test2.zip

For the above I need to know the value, if its always the same and what system you got it on.

I also have a second request if anyone can help. I need to make some space in the bios and to that end I want to down sample the power on jingle sound. The current size of that data is 128k, decompressed to wav its 513k. I would like to half the same rate if possible making the sound only 64k if its possible. There is also a second tone sound at the end of the data but that can stay as is. If anyone can help here I have uploaded the data with a decompressor to wav to http://unibios.free.fr/pcm.zip. Is this something that can be done by altering the PCM only or will the z80 program code also need changing?

Raz

kuk
03-11-2014, 04:01 PM
I have an disc error 002 withy my front loading
and 0140 nomber in green color with my CDZ

RockstarRunner
03-11-2014, 04:21 PM
CDZ
Japan region result '0140', pressing [A] did not change the value.
US region result '0140', pressing [A] did not change the value.

kuk
03-11-2014, 04:39 PM
I also have a second request if anyone can help. I need to make some space in the bios and to that end I want to down sample the power on jingle sound. The current size of that data is 128k, decompressed to wav its 513k. I would like to half the same rate if possible making the sound only 64k if its possible. There is also a second tone sound at the end of the data but that can stay as is. If anyone can help here I have uploaded the data with a decompressor to wav to http://unibios.free.fr/pcm.zip. Is this something that can be done by altering the PCM only or will the z80 program code also need changing?

Raz

Have you contact elbarto and furtek of
https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

they have very good programmer and technician on neo geo (CD)

Valt C
03-11-2014, 09:37 PM
Here is disc error 02 in both Top Loaders of mine.

Razoola
03-12-2014, 12:38 AM
I don't understand why these errors are coming, in theory it should be working on the top loaders.

Razoola
03-12-2014, 12:35 PM
From the results given on the CDZ I think there is no further need to test this. It appears the results on the CDZ are still the same as the results on the Top loader I have here. Its a shame because I was hoping I could used the DMA to detect the system and while that may still be possible to do I think I'll leave it for now and continue using a user select method.

I really need to get this sample reduced in size, its quite a priority because space is going to be limited. Its been pointed out to me that the sample will also need converting from ADPCM-A format to ADPCM-B.

Razoola
03-17-2014, 12:41 PM
For the last few days HPMAN has been helping me in relation to getting that PCM sample down in size. After much testing the following was discovered

12342

Don't worry though I will go and see Yoda, use the force and seek another solution.

xsq
03-17-2014, 12:52 PM
^^

kuk
03-18-2014, 06:01 PM
Try again young Padawan... XD

mikew
03-19-2014, 10:44 AM
Don't worry though I will go and see Yoda, use the force and seek another solution.

Hey Raz,

Any word back from Yoda?

neojedi
03-19-2014, 01:10 PM
Any word back from Yoda?
Patience! For the Jedi it is time to eat as well. ;)

Razoola
03-19-2014, 04:37 PM
Hey Raz,

Any word back from Yoda?

He said I must first lift the speeder from the swamp.

Razoola
03-23-2014, 09:28 AM
Can anyone with a CDZ tell me if audio track looping works correctly on their system?

All you need to do to test is play an audio track by pressing the play button twice (a small loop arrow will appear on the button). Then let the track play through. Does it loop correctly or simply play the next track after?

Also if you press button 'C' does it clear the loop arrow if its showing on the play button?

Raz

kuk
03-23-2014, 10:49 AM
the CDZ play the next track yes

and the C clear loop too

Razoola
03-23-2014, 11:35 AM
So the loop function does not work on normal CDZ bios? With it on or off the next track will always play?

kuk
03-23-2014, 11:43 AM
it's not an loop by track but by CD

Razoola
03-23-2014, 11:50 AM
Ohh, are you sure about this? The TOP loader has the option to loop track.

kuk
03-23-2014, 11:57 AM
i am never sure of nothing, doubt is the sens of my life XD
i could ensure you that the loop is by CD on my CDZ by this way
BUT
for loop by track use the number key, Programme fonction selcet your track and use the loop fonction

Razoola
03-23-2014, 11:59 AM
Does anyone have a English manual scan for the CDZ so I can confirm how it should be working?

kuk
03-23-2014, 12:04 PM
:eek_2:
An english manuel of the neo geo CDZ never exist because the CDZ is an japones only

i propose all the manuel than i have / found
here
http://neogeocdworld.info/html/pub_docs/notices.htm

of course if some want to translat the NGCDZ manual i would happy to propose his work

http://www.neogeocdworld.info/images/pub_doc/manuel/manuel%20CDZ/neogeocd_manuel_cdz_11jp.jpg

http://www.neogeocdworld.info/images/pub_doc/manuel/manuel%20CDZ/neogeocd_manuel_cdz_12jp.jpg

kuk
03-23-2014, 12:29 PM
for loop by track use the number key, Programme fonction selcet your track and use the loop fonction

Ok i test it on my Neo Geo CD Z
But counter to my memory its not working, you have all the time an CD loop and no an track loop

Sorry to mislead you

Razoola
03-23-2014, 12:51 PM
Ok its good to know. I spent a lot of time today trying to fix something what was not broken in the first place.

Raz

kuk
03-23-2014, 12:57 PM
Ok its good to know. I spent a lot of time today trying to fix something what was not broken in the first place.


the pleasure of creation :);)

Razoola
04-01-2014, 11:45 AM
Quick update on the current situation.

Finally got a test bios that works on all three systems (top loader,front loader and CDZ). I need to tidy a few things up still in relation to this still but once that's done the real work can start.

Raz

Arcade-TV
04-01-2014, 12:41 PM
Awesome. Thanks for the update Raz!

Razoola
04-02-2014, 02:48 PM
I have been having a play with some ideas for a new radio screen. This is knocked up in paintshop and not on NeoGeo hardware but it gives some idea of what I would like to change.

12747

Valt C
04-02-2014, 03:36 PM
Very good idea Raz! Seems that you're having tons of fun, good to know. Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

xsq
04-02-2014, 04:13 PM
awesome.

RockstarRunner
04-03-2014, 07:44 AM
That's a neat idea Raz, maybe you could offer a service for custom bg image insertion to an ordered bios???

Razoola
04-03-2014, 09:04 AM
Adding a service like that would be to hard. It may be possible to have a couple of BGs to choose from though. I personally think the cd player part can do with a new layout also.

Arcade-TV
04-03-2014, 11:42 AM
Could you then add an option upon purchase whether if one wants the original graphics or the custom wallpapers. I really don't wanna say anything negative but I like it simple and original, just like adding something really awesome to a console without making it obvious. Just like a switchless mod or something similar. Anyways, your work is and always will be da bomb!!

Razoola
04-03-2014, 01:02 PM
This is something that may not even get added. I was just having a play around. The radio does really need some kind of overhall though but if that happens it will defo be an option

RockstarRunner
04-03-2014, 01:55 PM
Just a thought, as many games don't have a logo for the preview window in CDZ bios, is that something you could do anything about? I would guess there simply isn't space to store that much image data...

Razoola
04-03-2014, 02:33 PM
You can mod the original game CDs to add one.

s8n187
04-08-2014, 07:38 AM
ive been following this project for a while and its really fantastic............


definitely got my eye on some Neo Geo CD's in the future when this gets closer to completion

mikew
04-08-2014, 10:48 AM
ive been following this project for a while and its really fantastic............


definitely got my eye on some Neo Geo CD's in the future when this gets closer to completion


Hi s8n187,

This project is essentially complete, it has been for some time. The hardware has been available for over a year now and this consists of a bios replacement and a usb interface to communicates directly with said bios. The work Raz is doing now is a complete Universe Bios implementation for the NGCD and this will also include pc2neo functionality. There are two PC clients to communicate with the neo, one is windows based and the other is a command line client. Both versions offer similar functionality with the only difference being that the command line client provides CD emulation over USB.

Mike

s8n187
04-08-2014, 01:46 PM
hi mike , ive been going by the videos on Youtube , http://unibios.free.fr/pc2neo.html and some of this thread.................


are the USB Interface units going to be manufactured and sold to the public ? , i really hope that hasnt already happened and ive missed out

Razoola
04-08-2014, 01:52 PM
Mike can sell you one, drop him a PM

mikew
04-08-2014, 02:15 PM
hi mike , ive been going by the videos on Youtube , http://unibios.free.fr/pc2neo.html and some of this thread.................


are the USB Interface units going to be manufactured and sold to the public ? , i really hope that hasnt already happened and ive missed out

Yes, these units are still for sale and built to order. Just to be clear, this is a different device then what you've referenced here: http://unibios.free.fr/pc2neo.html , that's the parallel port interface for the MVS. The current MVS universe bios does supports both USB and parallel port interfaces however this was designed primarily with the NGCD in mind and requires the new NGCD bios to use all of the development and CD loading features provided in the PC client software.

mastamuzz
04-09-2014, 12:17 PM
interesting stuff there mike!

just a few questions if I may,
this set up is made so the TL haves a NBM with a USB port for communication? how does this works on the FL cause I assume the DB on the TL has the BIOS socket and the communications hardware on it, but if the FL is a direct replacement how you get the hardware going for the communications port?

assuming it has a NeoBiosMasta that will make swapping a BIOS chip easy for when a UB is ready right? how is the PC2NEO going to work on this one cause I assume it is by the mentioned USB port right? it haves its own interface for windows or will just be CP based? (or to Raz: are you taking this setup in consideration with the UB?)

do you have any pictures of the hardware to be installed? what about installing? how noob friendly is it?

mikew
04-09-2014, 12:28 PM
interesting stuff there mike!

just a few questions if I may,
this set up is made so the TL haves a NBM with a USB port for communication? how does this works on the FL cause I assume the DB on the TL has the BIOS socket and the communications hardware on it, but if the FL is a direct replacement how you get the hardware going for the communications port?

assuming it has a NeoBiosMasta that will make swapping a BIOS chip easy for when a UB is ready right? how is the PC2NEO going to work on this one cause I assume it is by the mentioned USB port right? it haves its own interface for windows or will just be CP based? (or to Raz: are you taking this setup in consideration with the UB?)

do you have any pictures of the hardware to be installed? what about installing? how noob friendly is it?

>>this set up is made so the TL haves a NBM with a USB port for communication?
yes

>> how does this works on the FL cause I assume the DB on the TL has the BIOS socket and the communications hardware on it
I don't have a FL but Neoturfmasta has been testing this. As you've mentioned, with a socketed bios no NBM is needed. All units require the USB hardware as the communication is PC->PC2NEO->NEO . There's a USB connection to the PC2NEO and then a joystick connection is made from PC2NEO to the NEO.

>>assuming it has a NeoBiosMasta that will make swapping a BIOS chip easy for when a UB is ready right?

Yes, this is correct. It will just be a matter of swapping eproms. The UB should have all the same PC2NEO functionality built in as well.

>>it haves its own interface for windows or will just be CP based?

There is a windows and command line client. In fact I have OSX and Linux binaries as well for the command line tools but those are just ports of the same PC command line client.

>>do you have any pictures of the hardware to be installed? what about installing? how noob friendly is it?

I don't have any close up pictures of my setup but its a bit different then what is shipping as mine uses a ZIF socket attached to a ribbon cable to make development easier. The last page of the NBM pdf explains what's involved in installing in an NGCD: http://neogeofanclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/install.pdf

Thanks,

Mike

Deathx
04-09-2014, 12:45 PM
Wow, thats awesome, some of you guys should figure out how to stick all of this in a cf card/usb stick or everything that remove the pc using and does the job by simply stick it in the console... I'm pretty sure you will sell a hell lot of them

mastamuzz
04-09-2014, 12:50 PM
I don't have a FL but Neoturfmasta has been testing this. As you've mentioned, with a socketed bios no NBM is needed. All units require the USB hardware as the communication is PC->PC2NEO->NEO . There's a USB connection to the PC2NEO and then a joystick connection is made from PC2NEO to the NEO.



Mike

I assume then its the same gizmo that haves the connection for the PC2NEO from the controller port and the USB and the issue with the controller not working is solved right?

just thinking on ways to make this an internal mod so everything could be housed inside the console and just hook up everything on pc and monitor with no loose stuff.


Wow, thats awesome, some of you guys should figure out how to stick all of this in a cf card/usb stick or everything that remove the pc using and does the job by simply stick it in the console... I'm pretty sure you will sell a hell lot of them
there are better ways for you to play games that you don't own, this is for a complete different purpose.

mikew
04-09-2014, 12:52 PM
Wow, thats awesome, some of you guys should figure out how to stick all of this in a cf card/usb stick or everything that remove the pc using and does the job by simply stick it in the console... I'm pretty sure you will sell a hell lot of them

This is primarily a Neogeo development tool so the PC is a critical component in the chain.

mikew
04-09-2014, 05:08 PM
I assume then its the same gizmo that haves the connection for the PC2NEO from the controller port and the USB and the issue with the controller not working is solved right?


Both controller ports work. The unit connects to the 2UP port but it also has a pass-thru connector which allows you to use the port when a transfer is not occurring.

Deathx
04-11-2014, 06:24 AM
I assume then its the same gizmo that haves the connection for the PC2NEO from the controller port and the USB and the issue with the controller not working is solved right?

just thinking on ways to make this an internal mod so everything could be housed inside the console and just hook up everything on pc and monitor with no loose stuff.


there are better ways for you to play games that you don't own, this is for a complete different purpose.

Wrong explanation..
i have the ngcd (and z) with games, all i want (most i think do want) reduce the loading times.. if there will be a way to fast this by sticking some sort of usb thing i will definetly play and collect it with more satisfaction

mikew
04-11-2014, 08:26 AM
Wrong explanation..
i have the ngcd (and z) with games, all i want (most i think do want) reduce the loading times.. if there will be a way to fast this by sticking some sort of usb thing i will definetly play and collect it with more satisfaction

This device reduces NGCD load times dramatically which of course lends itself well to playing games you own or have borrowed. This wasn't the initial intention of the device, it's a side effect of the highly optimized data transfer protocol and data handling routines.

mastamuzz
04-11-2014, 04:57 PM
Wrong explanation..
i have the ngcd (and z) with games, all i want (most i think do want) reduce the loading times.. if there will be a way to fast this by sticking some sort of usb thing i will definetly play and collect it with more satisfaction

If you want no loading time buy a cartridge system easy as that. No need to beat around the bushes!

xsq
04-12-2014, 05:18 AM
the cartridge systems don't have the CD soundtracks....

mastamuzz
04-12-2014, 06:05 AM
yeah like the cd soundtrack for MOTW and MS 3,4,5 and X or KOF 2000,1,2 and 3 I bet those are awesome on CD!

oh wait they don't have a CD version too bad, you can't have it all right?

so choose your poison.

but hey that's a good question what about the cd soundtracks on pc2neo? you can't load a cd? just roms? or how does that work for development?

Razoola
04-12-2014, 06:34 AM
CD audio is played from the CD (if its present) in the drive even if loading is done via pc2neo.

Razoola
05-06-2014, 12:10 PM
A little update to keep you guys up to date with the current situation on the bios side of things.

After much testing on the three CD system types the bios now works on all three with the needed functionality. This means tray ejecting works on the front loader without issue. This was actually quite a pain to get working correctly and I have to give Brian a big thanks here because I think he tested around 25 different revisions before we got it working just right.

Currently the bios can only detect a front loader. The user has to choose between Top Loader or CDZ and this setting is then saved into the memory card when the system does not know what the hardware is. I would like to try and change this but presently I do not know of a way to do it. So far tests using DMA have not worked but its something I will look at more.

I have spent much time looking at cheats. This was an area I was hoping would not need much alteration but it seems I was wrong, cheats for MVS/AES games do not work for the most part on CD versions. I have corrected cheats for many games but still have some to do.

As far as PC2NEO goes we already know it works on the top loader and after some quick testing it appears its working on the front loader also. There looks to be an issue on the CDZ after the first test but at this point we need to look at it more before knowing if its just a hiccup of something more serious.

Raz

Valt C
05-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the update Raz!!!

When done, finally we can put Geese in the RBS CD, that I'm convinced being not unlockable(bug?) in this version, even though the game giving the code to unlock (such a troll game)... hehe, kidding

This week I'll have some glimpse of pc2neo and another bios myself, looking forward any news, the neo cd seems to have lots of things to surprise yet.

And BTW... Am I wrong or do you(and maybe Mike and NTM are included) have some ideas to develop for NGCD hardware(mod?)? I can tell that you are researching a bit beyond an Unibios CD project, like the system routines, the loading routines, do you plan new things for the future?

Razoola
05-07-2014, 10:34 AM
At the moment I have not looked beyond the stuff related to unibios and PC2NEO. There is no reason why I would not want to spend some time looking into ways expanding the systems memory if people wanted to look into that or any other advancements.

Raz

Mendel
05-07-2014, 06:55 PM
This would be very nice if someone coupled this with a neo geo cd edition of naopi.

rapsperry pi+sd card+lcd screen mounted on the console and you could just select game and go. If it works for naomi, why not for this?

mikew
05-07-2014, 08:14 PM
This would be very nice if someone coupled this with a neo geo cd edition of naopi.

rapsperry pi+sd card+lcd screen mounted on the console and you could just select game and go. If it works for naomi, why not for this?

The difference here is that the neo isn't network enabled. We need to bitbang a synchronous protocol over the joystick port which has very tight timing requirements. The way the pi handles GPIO under Linux is likely not "real-time" enough for this directly but the pc2neo connected via usb to the pi would likely work. The other option is to scrap Linux on the Pi and build the app bare metal on the ARM. You would then need to implement your own filesystem code, interface code, etc which is doable but not practical (imo). Keep in mind this is a development system. You write code on your PC and upload it to the Neo like you would any other development board. Having a Pi in between would suggest it would also be the development environment, that too isn't very practical.

mastamuzz
05-08-2014, 01:29 AM
have you seen the files on the SNKdan version of bios for cheats? he had some working so far.

Razoola
05-08-2014, 09:34 AM
No I have not looked at those, maybe I will as one game I'm having trouble with at the moment is stakes winner given it seems the CD version of the game is quite different from the MVS/AES version.

Raz

Neodogg
05-08-2014, 03:11 PM
MOTW, KOF 2000,01,02 were released on DC, just saying...


yeah like the cd soundtrack for MOTW and MS 3,4,5 and X or KOF 2000,1,2 and 3 I bet those are awesome on CD!

oh wait they don't have a CD version too bad, you can't have it all right?

mastamuzz
05-08-2014, 11:37 PM
I said cd not GDrom hahahahaaaa

ohh and can I have those US versions of KOF 2000, 01,02 on DC please?

KalessinDB
05-18-2014, 07:01 AM
there are better ways for you to play games that you don't own, this is for a complete different purpose.

To be fair, this wouldn't be the first system we've gotten an optical drive replacement for. There's the SD card loading GDEMU for DC and the USB replacement for 3DO, plus I know others are in the works. One of the biggest downfalls of optical drive based systems is eventually those optical drives fail, and the replacement isn't always easy to do for the average user (or even possible to find sometimes)

cdoty
05-19-2014, 03:47 AM
Damn, that's some awesome news. Might be a perfect excuse for Frog Feast 2... or not.

Any idea on a price point?

Could a similar concept work on systems such as the 3DO?

When uploading MVS games, are you doing the graphics bit swap in real time?

mikew
05-19-2014, 11:53 AM
Damn, that's some awesome news. Might be a perfect excuse for Frog Feast 2... or not.

Any idea on a price point?

Could a similar concept work on systems such as the 3DO?

When uploading MVS games, are you doing the graphics bit swap in real time?

>>Any idea on a price point?

The USB dev system is $150 but you also need a NeoBiosMasta ($15) from NeoTurfMasta.

>>Could a similar concept work on systems such as the 3DO?

Maybe? I'm not familiar with the technical aspects of that console. You would need a replacement bios for the transfer/debug routines at the very least.

>>When uploading MVS games, are you doing the graphics bit swap in real time?

Yes, the required 68K patching and V-ROM/C-ROM demultiplexing is also done in realtime. You can basically point it at an MVS rom and it will figure out how translate that to NGCD code on the fly.