Windjammers Issue

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

I purchased a Windjammers from a member here and it was delivered today. Unfortunately it does not work in any of my 4 slots...

The symptom is the same regardless of the slot I use... or what other cart is in the other slots or even if I have no cards in any of the slots other that Windjammers.

Basically it loads to attract without issue. As soon as you coin up and hit P1 start it resets. Each and every time.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

EDIT: Cleaned contacts... tried setting Soft Dips... no help.

The game will run through the entire attract without issue. If I credit up I hear the credit sound and I see a credit on screen... but as soon as I hit P1 or P2 start... it resets.

Xian Xi · Oct 30, 2010

Try clearing the backup ram as well.

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

Unfortunately clearing the backup RAM did not rectify the problem.

Xian Xi · Oct 30, 2010

Check the solder joints on the P1. Some might have cracks, if they do just reflow the solder.

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

OK... got it to work...

This is what I did:

I put my memory card in... tried... it crashed.

With the memory card already in I rebooted... it actually let me in to the game... I played. It asked if I wanted to save. I said NO...

I tried a 2nd game... it locked up. I could add credits (the CP showed credit and I could hear the credit sounds) but the game was locked. I turned off, pulled my memory card, restarted and the game came up. I played a game then a 2nd without issue. I reboot... it came back up... I put my other carts it... it still comes up. I am almost afraid to remove the cart though.

Xian Xi · Oct 30, 2010

Wait, did you have the mem card inserted this whole time?

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

No sir... I did not have it installed. I just installed it at the end.

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

Welp...

I spoke too soon.

I turned off the cab to go mow the lawn. I went back in and fired her up to EXACTLY the same issue as described in my original post.

WTF?

I didn't remove the cart or even bump the cab...

FrizzleFried · Oct 30, 2010

Strange.... I go back out there and IT'S WORKING (again... I've not touched it). Perhaps it starts working once it warms up?

Xian Xi · Oct 30, 2010

Check the solder joints like I said.

FrizzleFried · Oct 31, 2010

Reflowed P1... no help.

A couple of the ceramics appear to have been replaced or reflowed.... I reflowed them for good measure. I also re-cleaned the boards. Same issue.

What is strange is that once it's up and running it runs without issue.... until I power down for any significant timeframe. Again, my guess is it HAS to be a cold solder joint that is making connection once the cart warms up... right?

FrizzleFried · Nov 1, 2010

Any other suggestions? After extensive testing... yup... the game doesn't work cold, but give it 10 minutes to warm up and it runs each and every time... even if you power down the machine and then power up... but if you let it sit and cool down... back to the problems.

FrizzleFried · Nov 6, 2010

New Info...

Welp, I picked up a UniBIOS and installed it today. The following screenshot shows the error I get when I attempt to play Windjammers when the cab/cart is cold. Again, if I let it warm up, the game plays fine... no error.

Does that error tell me anything? I still figure it HAS to be a cold solder joint somewhere... perhaps the data in the image can point me to which chip?

shadows · Nov 6, 2010

If its just a cold joint it would be easy to spot the crack on the joint.

Xian Xi · Nov 6, 2010

A cold solder joint refers to how it was soldered, improperly. It has nothing to do with the temp of the joint during operation. This is why a cold solder joint is likely to crack.

FrizzleFried · Nov 6, 2010

Xian Xi said:
A cold solder joint refers to how it was soldered, improperly. It has nothing to do with the temp of the joint during operation. This is why a cold solder joint is likely to crack.

It's been my experience that heat causes components to flex... and if something is flexing when it warms up, it could be creating the necessary contact that otherwise isn't happening while cold...

That said... does this error screen tell me any information I can use to help fix the problem I am having with the cart?

Xian Xi · Nov 6, 2010

When the board is on, the cart temp only changes about 2-3 degrees, well below the metling point of the solder.

Raz can tell you what that error means.

FrizzleFried · Nov 7, 2010

I'll ask Raz, however I have to disagree with the temp changes. They certainly increase in temp more than 2-3 degrees... but of course they don't get hot enough to melt solder. When components heat up (even a few degrees) they "flex"... sometimes when you have a cold solder joint and the component heats up it will flex and either start working when it didn't before (the flexing caused the cold solder joint to make contact) or (more often) something working will stop working (the cold solder joint flexed enough to create a gap in contact)...

That is the only thing I can think that can be the problem here. The cart consistently exhibits the same behavior... it doesn't work when cold, but it works 100% after a brief warm-up period (5 to 7 minutes). Even after warm up, if you turn the system off for a few seconds and start up again, the cart works fine... but give it 10 minutes to cool down and it's back to square one.

shadows · Nov 7, 2010

Then open the cart and look at the solder joints, it will take you 2 minutes to check if thats the case...

Razoola · Nov 7, 2010

Its either going to be.....

dirty cart contacts
dirty mvs contacts
bad p1 or solderpoints of p1
possible psu issue

FrizzleFried · Nov 7, 2010

Razoola said:
Its either going to be.....

dirty cart contacts
dirty mvs contacts
bad p1 or solderpoints of p1
possible psu issue

Dirty cart contacts - Cleaned em multiple times.

Dirty MVS contacts - No problem with any other cart I have... and this issue happens on all 4 slots...

Bad P1 or solder points of P1 - I already reflowed P1 with no change... though I will check again... how does one test the chip on P1 to determine if it's bad? Also, will a bad chip work 100% after it warms up vs when it's cold?

Possible PSU Issue - I'd have to refer to the same answer given for the first part of the MVS contacts suggestion... all my other carts (including 10 I've sold) work and have worked.

I'll pull the cart apart and check P1 again... and of course try to spy any other solder issues... though sometimes it's very difficult to see issues.

metallizer · Nov 7, 2010

I would narrow it down to cart issue since it's the only game that has this problem.

You could give a good clean to the cart slotpins with a pencil eraser and see if it changes anythng.

Xian Xi · Nov 7, 2010

Post a pic of your PROG board front and back as close as possible. Maybe your P1 is going bad.

Also just to double check, when you reflowed the solder you removed the old solder correct and not just added to it?

Razoola · Nov 9, 2010

FrizzleFried said:
Bad P1 or solder points of P1 - I already reflowed P1 with no change... though I will check again... how does one test the chip on P1 to determine if it's bad? Also, will a bad chip work 100% after it warms up vs when it's cold?

Simply go to the game cart check and do the test multiple times and compare the crc results you get.

It all depends on the fault. Just because the game does not crash does not mean its already caused game issues without crash or reset.

You may want to try the cart on a different system if possible.

FrizzleFried · Nov 10, 2010

Welp, I get the same CRC result (which shows up as OK) regardless if I run the test when I first fire up (when it crashes if I try to play) or when I let it warm up (and it runs fine when I play). I can post the CRC if it would help... but it's the same each time I tested.

Odly, my KOM2 comes up as NG... but it plays fine.

As for testing on another system.... I only have one NG and no one in my area has another that i know of.

Windjammers Issue

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