AES PAL - NTSC conversion...

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David Fallows

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<img src="graemlins/help.gif" border="0" alt="[Help]" />

Just last night I was playing KOF'99 Dream Match on my DC and noticed that the characters are thinner/taller than when playing KOF'96/97/2K on my Neo. I've concluded that my AES system is therefore PAL thus making it unnacceptable!

I grabbed this from a Neo AES hardware FAQ over at gamefaqs.com and just wondered if anyone could help me out with confirming if this works or not...

"You need to force your Neo-Geo to display through the NTSC signal. Why? Because unlike the PAL signal it is 16% faster, full screen, and above all, it looks as the programmers intended."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I already know that...

"To do this, just open your Neo-Geo by unscrewing the four screws on the bottom (3 of the screws are hidden under the rubber feet; just remove the feet with a little screwdriver)."

Sounds a little harsh! I'd better get some good adhesive if I want to put those back on...

"Once your console is open, locate a small piece of bare wire (very short) in the area of the top right corner of the motherboard; it is called PAL 1. There is no need to be uneasy, as it is marked as PAL 1. Now with a small cutter cut it in half, and make sure that no contact is made. That's all. If you did everything fine you should get full screen signal (NTSC)."

Ok, so that sounds like the easiest mod ever - It's not like I'm afraid of breaking anything, I just don't want to open up my Neo for nothing that's all. If I cut that wire and nothing works or nothing changes I don't want to have to re-wire it up again. Can anyone help me out with this?

I have 2 TVs, one is a 28" PAL (awesome picture quality - VGA standard) and the other is a 33" NTSC (Good colour, sharp-ass picture quality). The strange thing is that my Japanese unmodified Dreamcast plays all games at full speed/full screen on the PAL TV. It's like the DC is feeding the TV an NTSC signal and the TV is accepting it. I wish my US N64 would do the same!

Hell! My Neo might already be playing in NTSC - it's just that I noticed the DCs KOF sprites are taller and thinner - I can't really notice a difference in speed at all, could that be a resolution issue? I've never played a PAL Neo and an NTSC Neo side by side before so I don't have a clue about how apparent the differences are. I think I'd just feel better knowing for sure that my Neo plays in NTSC. <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

All help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. <img src="graemlins/help.gif" border="0" alt="[Help]" />
 
Poison Sama

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Maybe 1 of these 2 can help :

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Note:May be out of stock right now.
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Damn..I lost my Los3r rank...had it since I've registered...oh, well....It was fun while it lasted...
 
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David Fallows

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No. Thanks anyway Hentai but that's not my problem at all. I can get my Neo to play in full colour because I think it's already PAL. All I want to do is change my AES from PAL to NTSC (If it isn't already).

Thanks anyway. :)
 
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eggplant_casserole

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Are you playing through RGB SCART? Also does your TV handle 60hz - eg the 60hz test on dreamcast?

If you could get down to Kent I could take a look for you - pop in the shop ;)
 
NeoDragoN

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Originally posted by David Fallows:
<strong>No. Thanks anyway Hentai but that's not my problem at all. I can get my Neo to play in full colour because I think it's already PAL. All I want to do is change my AES from PAL to NTSC (If it isn't already).

Thanks anyway. :) </strong><hr></blockquote>

If your running through RGB then you will beable to run any import console on a Pal Tv thats our way of getting round them :D
Click to expand...
 
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David Fallows

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The system works on both my PAL and NTSC TVs in full colour through RGB yes. HOWEVER - I'm not too sure that it is running in true NTSC format due to the size of the KOF sprites, they seem more 'squashed' than on the Dreamcast version.

Anyhow - last night I opened up the system and cut through the white line that is marked 'PAL 1' - If I plug the system back in today and it doesn't work on my PAL TV I will then know for sure that it is running in NTSC. However, if it runs on my NTSC TV in full colour with no difference in sprite size I will then know that the problem is resolution related and cannot be changed - SHOULD NOT be changed - because it'll be the DC version that stretches the sprites up to cater for it's own resolution format.

I hope I'm being clear on this.

"Are you playing through RGB SCART? Also does your TV handle 60hz - eg the 60hz test on dreamcast?"

Yes, like I said, my Japanese Dreamcast plays in full colour, full screen and without borders or speed loss WITHOUT the use of a 60hz test (Japanese DCs never prompt you for the test). However, if my AES is PAL it's going to work on anything regardless.

"If you could get down to Kent I could take a look for you - pop in the shop"

Nice one! That's what I shall do if I make a balls up of all of this.

basically, all I'm trying to do is get my Neo to run without squashed sprites like my Dreamcast does. SO - I've cut the 'PAL 1' link hoping that this is going to throw the PAL format out of the window. I hope it does - but I want it to still run on my PAL TV in full colour etc. like my DC does. My PAL TV is better than my NTSC TV you see - it's what I use for all my 2D games because of the good VGA-like picture quality it displays.
 
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David Fallows

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How can I be sure that my Neo is running in PAL format? How big are the borders on PAL Neo games usually? I don't have an AES that I'm sure is NTSC so I can't compare like I can with all my other consoles.

When I play my Neo I do notice borders but the are very, very small (around 3-4 pixels high).

Like I said before - All I know is that the sprites are more squashed when compared to the DC version.
 
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eggplant_casserole

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If the console was originally PAL, the crystal will be PAL spec. Don't have either of mine on me - can't think of the crystal location offhand. In theory should be near the CXA1145 chip.

Off the top of my head, this would be 4.433something MHz, as opposed to NTSC - around 3.5 MHz.

Other ways, umm check the video signal with an oscilloscope, check you have the jumper the right way round for "mock" PAL - 50 or 60 Hz depending on the other jumper.

As for the borders, well PAL is 625 lines whereas NTSC is 525, so the borders should be 50 lines top and bottom. Don't blame me for bad eyesight caused by trying to count pixels on a TV!

My old SCART TV gives herrrruuuuuuge borders when I put my Neo or Jap Saturn through it - guess it is none too pleased about 60Hz, or NTSC. Is colour and a sorta stable image, though.
 
The Auction Sniper

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PAL sucks, end of story.

It sucks even more if you don't live in an NTSC region, everything needs to be imported to get perfect 60hz display (no more gay black borders!).
 
Poison Sama

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True...but, at least PAL is better than SECAM. *shivers*

I am more of an NTSC fan myself.
 
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David Fallows

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50 lines top and bottom on a PAL Neo?? SHIT! I don't have borders of that magnitude.

No - I can safely say that my AES runs in NTSC. I put my neo back together after cutting the 'PAL 1' strip and nothing changed, so, I'm happy! <img src="graemlins/tickled.gif" border="0" alt="[Tickled]" />

Thanks for all your help guys! And yes, PAL format sucks the big one.
 
Kazuya_UK

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Originally posted by David Fallows:
<strong>And yes, PAL format sucks the big one.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes... yes it does .
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eggplant_casserole

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Actually PAL is a better format than NTSC. The quality is better. NTSC was a make-do - like VHS. Betamax was actually superior, only VHS tapes were put out for rent/sale in larger quantities, so people thought more of them, must be worth having. NTSC was a make-do system - the US rejected the better quality one!!!

Why do you think its dubbed Never The Same Colour? Mostly by US engineers! lo

It has MORE lines, which is obviously better. The reason US games run with borders is their screens are TOO SMALL. OK, running slightly slower is a drawback, but it doesn't really matter. The picture quality is still better, and that drawback is the fault of the games companies. When SMB came out on NES, there were 2 PAL versions. The first was a straight copy of the US version with a PAL lockout chip. They realised this ran too slow, so sorted it out. The majority of copies run THE SAME SPEED as the NTSC version! Its all down to sheer laziness on the software companies' behalf!!!
 
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David Fallows

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Originally posted by eggplant_casserole:
<strong>...The majority of copies run THE SAME SPEED as the NTSC version! Its all down to sheer laziness on the software companies' behalf!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very true. Look at Virtua Fighter 4 on the PS2 and Perfect Dark" on the N64 - PAL Perfect Dark" actually ran smoother with slightly higher res.!
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cgun

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I made this mod some weeks ago. You can get PAL-60 which gives you full speed, full screen and everything that's good with NTSC but still in PAL.

Open the system up. The board should say "AES3" somewhere on the right side. In the top right corner there will be a jumper marked PAL1 or PAL2. Cut it off, and it's done.

You can use this with a regular PAL-tv without NTSC support with any cable.
 
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eggplant_casserole

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Quite right Cgun. Although this is preferable on a PAL machine, as it has the PAL oscillator in it, making it true PAL. :)

And btw, SECAM introduced the PERITEL idea, using RGB and other inputs/outputs on one connector. Yes you guessed, SCART is actually french! So you can't diss it too much ;)

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: eggplant_casserole ]</p>
 
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zorro

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but is there an issue with electricity too? I'm asking because I'm going to be getting a pal machine and I live in the U.S. I'll be using us cords, but will there be any problem with t.v. or electricity compatibility?
 
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David Fallows

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Originally posted by cgun:
<strong>I made this mod some weeks ago. You can get PAL-60 which gives you full speed, full screen and everything that's good with NTSC but still in PAL.

Open the system up. The board should say "AES3" somewhere on the right side. In the top right corner there will be a jumper marked PAL1 or PAL2. Cut it off, and it's done.

You can use this with a regular PAL-tv without NTSC support with any cable.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I had two little dimples linked with a white line named 'PAL 1', I just cut the line and then put it back together.

I'm sure the console was running in NTSC anyway. My borders are like 2% of the actual screen size.
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David Fallows

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Originally posted by cgun:
<strong>I made this mod some weeks ago. You can get PAL-60 which gives you full speed, full screen and everything that's good with NTSC but still in PAL.

Open the system up. The board should say "AES3" somewhere on the right side. In the top right corner there will be a jumper marked PAL1 or PAL2. Cut it off, and it's done.

You can use this with a regular PAL-tv without NTSC support with any cable.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is it possible to do this with the US Nintendo 64 console?

Just wondering.
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eggplant_casserole

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zorro - using a US PSU is no problem as the OUTPUT is gonna be the same - just make sure you have the right one (the 10V 1.2A or 5V 3A) ;)

david - back to nes idea i'm afraid. so if you wanna run it 50hz (why, why WHY????) all u have to do is replace a few chips ;)

or..... BUY A UK ONE!!! lol. So damn cheap it makes sense to have both if you're that bothered - i do.
 
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