crazy idea

zorro · Jul 22, 2003

I was thinking about video output since I'm building a supergun lately. and I know jrok is the normal solution for this matter (for low res) but I was thinking if the video conrtols were attached to the video board of a dvd player you could attatch it to any tv. At as high of a resolution as you'd want. Do you think this would be very hard? To me it sounds like the perfect solution

thoughts?

[ July 23, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: zorro ]

Freelancer · Jul 22, 2003

The purpose of the JROK is to encode the RGB signal into an NTSC-compatible signal and then outputs it via S-Video or Composite.

Now, unless my logic is wrong, a DVD player logic board wouldn't be able to provide this type of ENCODING without major modding and so forth. A DVD player logic board lacks the capabilities to encode an RGB signal down to NTSC...it merely outputs the disc's signal via it's output ports.

[ July 22, 2003, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Freelancer ]

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

I just thought since it plays high resolution media and encodes it to go out through composite, s-video, etc. I was thinking it makes the signals t.v. friendly. amd just may work?

NEOGEOman · Jul 23, 2003

It won't work. The details are long and complicated, but in essence a DVD player has a single-chip mpg2 decoder that converts a digital bitstream into analogue video signals. It never enters the RGB domain, and even if it did it's converted inside one chip, and you can't get at it.

Also, you can't convert low-res RGB and have it magically increase in resolution. wink

Fuzzzy · Jul 23, 2003

Yeahhh.... what neo man said ^_-

[ July 23, 2003, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Fuzzzy ]

Reznor007 · Jul 23, 2003

Well...depending on what DVD player you have, it might be possible. If the MPEG2 decoder chip is separate from any other video chips, then it might have an RGB output going into an encoder that you could tap into. However, I have no ideal if/which DVD players would have this. AFAIK most DVD players use a simplified MPEG2 chip that has NTSC encoding built in.

And I seriously doubt using that method will work for 24/31KHz arcade PCB's.

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

I was just planning on using it for carts such as taito F3, sega stv, cps-2, and mvs. Possibly naomi. I know the higher resolution might make certain games look worse, but it'd work well with others. Besides I never got into the neo lately for the graphics, it's all the ideas and playability

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

might something like this work then? help

<a href="http://dvd-service.narod.ru/images/converter_gold.GIF" target="_blank">http://dvd-service.narod.ru/images/converter_gold.GIF</a>

[ July 23, 2003, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: zorro ]

NEOGEOman · Jul 23, 2003

it might be possible. If the MPEG2 decoder chip is separate from any other video chips, then it might have an RGB output going into an encoder

This won't be happening. DVDs store their data as component video. To what you describe inside a DVD player it'd have to load the component data, decode that to RGB, then pass it to a converter that re-encodes to component.

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

so how would I get the rgb signals to a normal tv? are there any good links or anything of the sort? I don't know anything about video and I want my first supergun to be the greatest thing ever.

chemical · Jul 23, 2003

Here's an even crazier idea for the greatest supergun ever:

First you'll need a <a href="http://www.ggdb.com/GGDB/Details.asp?VID=3113&Cat=TechRoot.Manual.VZ" target="_blank">Time Traveller</a> holographic arcade cabinet. The kind Sega made in the early 90's.

Then you'll need some type of software that will turn the neo's output into two seperate images. I believe software like this is bundled with those crappy PC 3d glasses I see everywhere.

Connect a few wires, and voila...3D Neo.

And no, I guess technically that wouldn't be a supergun. drool

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

I really do need help with the video though, I don't know where to start or when it ends.

ResO · Jul 23, 2003

Time Traveler cabinet:
I don't know about 3D, But a holographic Neo display still sounds really cool.

[ July 23, 2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: ResOGlas ]

Yodd · Jul 23, 2003

Stop being a tight ass and just buy a JROK encoder if you are wanting to build a SG. It really would be the better solution.

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

I spent hundreads in the forums, and just paid for classes. besides I want something that would work with higher resolutions as well.

Amano Jacu · Jul 23, 2003

zorro:
I spent hundreads in the forums, and just paid for classes. besides I want something that would work with higher resolutions as well.

Go for the JROK for regular lo-res boards like MVS. About hi-res, Naomi has VGA outputs so just use a VGA PC monitor and you are all set.

Reznor007 · Jul 23, 2003

NEOGEOman:

it might be possible. If the MPEG2 decoder chip is separate from any other video chips, then it might have an RGB output going into an encoder

Click to expand...

This won't be happening. DVDs store their data as component video. To what you describe inside a DVD player it'd have to load the component data, decode that to RGB, then pass it to a converter that re-encodes to component.

I know DVD is digital component format, but it is easy to change that to RGB(look at PC DVD software). Not common, but some players do have RGB output, and I'm sure some include RGB->NTSC. But the effort in finding such a player, plus buying it soley for the purpose of ripping it apart is way too much effort. Not to mention you'd probably spend about twice as much as you would just ordering a JROK.

Of course, you can build our own converter fairly cheaply(I did for about $25), but then it's not a tiny machine manufactured PCB. I bought a JROK because it's simply more convenient, and more compatible(mine had problems with games that had weird sync timing like MK2).

Amano Jacu · Jul 23, 2003

Reznor007:
Not common, but some players do have RGB output, and I'm sure some include RGB->NTSC. But the effort in finding such a player, plus buying it soley for the purpose of ripping it apart is way too much effort. Not to mention you'd probably spend about twice as much as you would just ordering a JROK.

Oh well, here in Europe most DVD players output RGB through scart as most TVs support it, and the picture is just lovely. mr_t

John_Smith · Jul 23, 2003

Umm, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'high res'. If you mean higher line frequency like the so called 'medium' and 'high' res hardware sets which mainly equates to the aforementioned line frequency then yes you're right about the JROC encoder as it's only supposed to work with 15.X KHz RGB signals so it wont like Naomi etc. But if you mean to actually up the pixel resolution, unfortunately the arcade boards dictate this themselves and its set in stone! The best you could hope for is as Amano Jacu mentioned a SCART compatible TV or indeed an actual RGB arcade monitor, hell even an early C64 or Amiga monitor for the best possible picture from your 'standard res' boards. And believe me when I say it, if you're used to looking at a composite signal or even S-Video then you don’t know what you're missing, just awesome clarity!!!

Rigel · Jul 23, 2003

John_Smith:
Umm, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'high res'. If you mean higher line frequency like the so called 'medium' and 'high' res hardware sets which mainly equates to the aforementioned line frequency then yes you're right about the JROC encoder as it's only supposed to work with 15.X KHz RGB signals so it wont like Naomi etc. But if you mean to actually up the pixel resolution, unfortunately the arcade boards dictate this themselves and its set in stone! The best you could hope for is as Amano Jacu mentioned a SCART compatible TV or indeed an actual RGB arcade monitor, hell even an early C64 or Amiga monitor for the best possible picture from your 'standard res' boards. And believe me when I say it, if you're used to looking at a composite signal or even S-Video then you don’t know what you're missing, just awesome clarity!!!

I agree with John_Smith here. You cannot get higher resolution than the PCB actually supports. Unfortunately, these games are not like computer video cards where you can select what resolution they display in.

Reznor007 · Jul 23, 2003

John_Smith:
Umm, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'high res'. If you mean higher line frequency like the so called 'medium' and 'high' res hardware sets which mainly equates to the aforementioned line frequency then yes you're right about the JROC encoder as it's only supposed to work with 15.X KHz RGB signals so it wont like Naomi etc. But if you mean to actually up the pixel resolution, unfortunately the arcade boards dictate this themselves and its set in stone! The best you could hope for is as Amano Jacu mentioned a SCART compatible TV or indeed an actual RGB arcade monitor, hell even an early C64 or Amiga monitor for the best possible picture from your 'standard res' boards. And believe me when I say it, if you're used to looking at a composite signal or even S-Video then you don’t know what you're missing, just awesome clarity!!!

JROK will work with Naomi perfectly. You just set the board for 15KHz. It also works great with the 3d Midway games like NFL Blitz and Gauntlet Legends if you set them to 15KHz.

zorro · Jul 23, 2003

really?

also the idea was to rip a cheap dvd player and give it super power. since my current dvd play only cost 60, and I've seen many that have gone for as low as 30!

Reznor007 · Jul 23, 2003

I'd give up on the DVD player idea...it's a nice thought, but not practical. JROK does everything you need, aside from Sega Model 1-3 boards, and a few old Atari boards(Paperboy, Marble Madness, Steel Talons, etc.).

Amano Jacu · Jul 24, 2003

Reznor007:
JROK will work with Naomi perfectly. You just set the board for 15KHz. It also works great with the 3d Midway games like NFL Blitz and Gauntlet Legends if you set them to 15KHz.

As far as I remember, sombody said that some Naomi games don't have a lo-res option.

Reznor007 · Jul 24, 2003

They do. It is a Dreamcast afterall, which is designed for a 15KHz TV. You can ask Sixtoe at system16.com if you want.

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