Champions League Draw

evil wasabi

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VfB Stuttgart vs. Barcelona
Olympiacos vs. Bordeaux
Inter vs. Chelsea
Bayern Munich vs. Fiorentina
CSKA Moscow vs. Sevilla
Lyon vs. Real Madrid
Porto vs. Arsenal
Milan vs. Man Utd

Thoughts:

The weakest teams get to battle it out, while all the strong teams are forced to enter mortal combat early on. No one will give a shit about Olympiacos vs. Bordeaux. No one will give a shit about CSKA and Sevilla. Truly a bullshit draw in that some of the best teams in this tournament will be knocked out early.

Barcelona def Stuttgart
Stuttgart has a weak backline that Zlatan and Messi will run a train on.

Bordeaux def Olympiacos
Bordeaux is a stronger team, but this one is a rubbish match.

Chelsea def Inter
Chelsea are a better coached side, but otherwise this is a very balanced matchup, assuming that Inter has Drogba. An Inter defeat will lead to Mourinho given a vote of confidence by Moratti, shortly before resigning.

Bayern def Fiorentina
Bayern has issues, but Fiorentina is in this off pure unadulterated luck. A healthy Robben and

Sevilla def CSKA
I have no faith in the Gulag league. They should be in the Uefa cup. Not the CL.

Lyon def Madrid
This is going to be the upset. Ronald is the leading scorer in the CL, but Lyon has #s 2, 3 and 4 on the top scorer list. Lyon is not a team to be trifled with this time around. Last year they were a strong side with Benzema, but Benzema was the only scorer. Now they have Lisando Lopez and Bafetimbi Gomis who can sniff the back of the net nicely. Besides that, Madrid has one win worth bragging about this season and that was against Valencia. Otherwise their wins have been against lowly opponents in La Liga, where the polarization of quality is as intense as Ronaldo's tanning sessions. Madrid chokes against worthy opponents (Sevilla, Milan, Barca).

Porto def Arsenal
Arsenal, when healthy, is lethal. At the moment they are not healthy. This could change by march.

Man Utd def Milan
Milan has a lot of talent, but not a very skilled manager. Fergie has been here many times.
 

Atro

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I'm not sure about those prognostics :)

The Bordeaux Match will certainly be cooler to watch than a few others.
Specially because there's a lot of quality in that team.
Gourcuf is a magnificent player and so is the rest of that squad.
The greeks aren't a top Europe team, but they deserve more respect.

As for the others,

Barça is the obvious favorite in their draw.

Inter vs Chelsea seems like a bit of hatred on your side since Inter is one of your top hated clubs. As for the "better coached team" , I guess Mourinho has no lessons to take from Ancellotti...

Bayern vs Fiorentina doesn't look only "luck" from the Florence squad.
They have talent and specially, "italian tacticall school".
Bayern is favorite, but not by a long shot.

Sevilla should pass the exam against CSKA, but they'll suffer a very hard match in Russia due to weather conditions. The cold snowy weather will be a tough opponent for the spaniards rather than the team. Either way, CSKA will leave their skin on the pitch and they deserved a million times more their qualification to the next round than Liverpool or Juventus.

Arsenal vs Porto
You say Arsenal is bad, but Porto isn't that good either. Porto has a bunch of good players, they form a very solid team, but they have a scared coach and will fail in the elimination stage.
They might have done great against Atletico Madrid, but who doesn't anyway? their 3-0 in Vicente Calderon is to be taken with a grain of salt. The spaniards are fighting to leave the relegation area in their league and it's looking hard for them to do so as of now.

Lyon Vs Real Madrid
It's a bit like the Chelsea's V Inter match. It's undeniable that you desire Madrid to be out, and fail to admit they are stronger than 90% of other teams just because you don't like them.
Currently only Barça, Manchester and Chelsea are better than them and in between, Inter when they're doing right, they can beat anyone too.
Madrid only had a bad season period, and that period was when Ronaldo was injured. He's back on the train and kickin ass. Madrid just have to fill the hole that Pepe left. Another bad injury for them.
As for Benzema, ex-Porto Lisandro Lopez is as deadlier ( if not more ) than him. Look how many he's already scored ;)

Milan Vs Manchester - I second you.
 

evil wasabi

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I'm not sure about those prognostics :)

The Bordeaux Match will certainly be cooler to watch than a few others.
Specially because there's a lot of quality in that team.
Gourcuf is a magnificent player and so is the rest of that squad.
The greeks aren't a top Europe team, but they deserve more respect.

As for the others,

Barça is the obvious favorite in their draw.

Inter vs Chelsea seems like a bit of hatred on your side since Inter is one of your top hated clubs. As for the "better coached team" , I guess Mourinho has no lessons to take from Ancellotti...

Bayern vs Fiorentina doesn't look only "luck" from the Florence squad.
They have talent and specially, "italian tacticall school".
Bayern is favorite, but not by a long shot.

Sevilla should pass the exam against CSKA, but they'll suffer a very hard match in Russia due to weather conditions. The cold snowy weather will be a tough opponent for the spaniards rather than the team. Either way, CSKA will leave their skin on the pitch and they deserved a million times more their qualification to the next round than Liverpool or Juventus.

Arsenal vs Porto
You say Arsenal is bad, but Porto isn't that good either. Porto has a bunch of good players, they form a very solid team, but they have a scared coach and will fail in the elimination stage.
They might have done great against Atletico Madrid, but who doesn't anyway? their 3-0 in Vicente Calderon is to be taken with a grain of salt. The spaniards are fighting to leave the relegation area in their league and it's looking hard for them to do so as of now.

Lyon Vs Real Madrid
It's a bit like the Chelsea's V Inter match. It's undeniable that you desire Madrid to be out, and fail to admit they are stronger than 90% of other teams just because you don't like them.
Currently only Barça, Manchester and Chelsea are better than them and in between, Inter when they're doing right, they can beat anyone too.
Madrid only had a bad season period, and that period was when Ronaldo was injured. He's back on the train and kickin ass. Madrid just have to fill the hole that Pepe left. Another bad injury for them.
As for Benzema, ex-Porto Lisandro Lopez is as deadlier ( if not more ) than him. Look how many he's already scored ;)

Milan Vs Manchester - I second you.

On the Chelsea Inter subject, Mourinho is a problem more than Inter being a strong side. He won the CL too early in his career and never matured as a manager. For that reason he gets ejected from games more regularly than players do. Ancelotti won the CL with a more talented team, imo, but he's able to keep his cool, doesn't fall for silly mind games, etc.

Besides that, Inter hasn't looked very good in the CL so far.

On the RM subject, what can I say. All that talent, and they still lose to good teams. Now C Ronaldo is back in so no doubt they are better, but Pellegrini is in dangerous waters now, and with the likely managerial shake up this transfer window, we don't know what RM's situation will be. They have about 2 months now.

And yes, Benzema has been a huge bust, until recently. He's more capable for RM as a left winger, apparently.

Fiorentina are not worth talking about. Florence is only good for old people to vacation and die in.
 

Atro

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On the Chelsea Inter subject, Mourinho is a problem more than Inter being a strong side. He won the CL too early in his career and never matured as a manager. For that reason he gets ejected from games more regularly than players do. Ancelotti won the CL with a more talented team, imo, but he's able to keep his cool, doesn't fall for silly mind games, etc.

Besides that, Inter hasn't looked very good in the CL so far.

It's funny because Mourinho won every competition he was in exception for the UEFA Supercup ( lost to Milan 1-0 ).

So before someone comes here and start talking crap about the millions he got from Abrahamovic in Chelsea, I might have to remind that by that time he won 2 Leagues, 1 Cup, 2 Supercups, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 Champions League with Porto and besides that team was gifted with a lot of top players, they were not even 10% as rich as Chelsea is.

The guy signs for Chelsea and wins 2 premier leagues in a row, taking down Manchester United hegemony with ease.
Also won an English Cup, League Cup and Community Shield Supercup.

You cannot ask any coach to win several Champion Leagues in a row. Other than skill and talent, you must be lucky too. Like in poker. Cards alone don't win, you have to be good mind wise.

Even so, in his 1st season he still reached semis against Winners Liverpool by away goals. 2nd season, lost to champions Barcelona on a controversy match at Stamford Bridge with polemical referee decisions.
3rd Season, lost again to vice-champions Liverpool in the PK shootout.

Last season he lost to Manchester United, which is much stronger than Inter.

Later Chelsea coaches never managed to do what Mourinho did ( specially regarding the Premiership ) and maybe only this year, Chelsea might aspire to win again. Not because Ancelotti's there, rather because Manchester is accusing their record sale of Ronaldo.

He was also the only coach EVER in the Serie A ( foreign, that is ) that won the championship on his 1st season, leaving miles behind the runner-up.
And don't tell me Mancini did the same, because Mancini's got pretty lucky with the "Calcio-chaos" situation in which Juventus was relegated and Milan had to start with 9 negative points.

If for any reason he gets sacked from Inter, I almost bet my ass that he'll go back to England again, and possibly to Liverpool.
I'm sure Liverpool dried Premierships would end right away.

Claudio Ranieri failed, Avram Grant failed, Scolari failed, Guus Hiddink failed, Ancelotti - We still don't know. Mourinho didn't.
Being cool or not, I don't care. I'd take RESULTS any day of the week over coolness.
Ask it to Chelsea fans.
 

evil wasabi

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It's funny because Mourinho won every competition he was in exception for the UEFA Supercup ( lost to Milan 1-0 ).

So before someone comes here and start talking crap about the millions he got from Abrahamovic in Chelsea, I might have to remind that by that time he won 2 Leagues, 1 Cup, 2 Supercups, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 Champions League with Porto and besides that team was gifted with a lot of top players, they were not even 10% as rich as Chelsea is.

The guy signs for Chelsea and wins 2 premier leagues in a row, taking down Manchester United hegemony with ease.
Also won an English Cup, League Cup and Community Shield Supercup.

You cannot ask any coach to win several Champion Leagues in a row. Other than skill and talent, you must be lucky too. Like in poker. Cards alone don't win, you have to be good mind wise.

Even so, in his 1st season he still reached semis against Winners Liverpool by away goals. 2nd season, lost to champions Barcelona on a controversy match at Stamford Bridge with polemical referee decisions.
3rd Season, lost again to vice-champions Liverpool in the PK shootout.

Last season he lost to Manchester United, which is much stronger than Inter.

Later Chelsea coaches never managed to do what Mourinho did ( specially regarding the Premiership ) and maybe only this year, Chelsea might aspire to win again. Not because Ancelotti's there, rather because Manchester is accusing their record sale of Ronaldo.

He was also the only coach EVER in the Serie A ( foreign, that is ) that won the championship on his 1st season, leaving miles behind the runner-up.
And don't tell me Mancini did the same, because Mancini's got pretty lucky with the "Calcio-chaos" situation in which Juventus was relegated and Milan had to start with 9 negative points.

If for any reason he gets sacked from Inter, I almost bet my ass that he'll go back to England again, and possibly to Liverpool.
I'm sure Liverpool dried Premierships would end right away.

Claudio Ranieri failed, Avram Grant failed, Scolari failed, Guus Hiddink failed, Ancelotti - We still don't know. Mourinho didn't.
Being cool or not, I don't care. I'd take RESULTS any day of the week over coolness.
Ask it to Chelsea fans.

You're saying it's laudable that Mourinho won the scudetto, with Mancini's squad. But this has been no different from his tenure at Chelsea.

The CL championship? I'm not going to take away from him on that. His Porto team stunned Man U, and even though the rest of their competition in the knockout phases were far from favorites, they stunned Man U, the favorite by far.

But then he moved to Chelsea, and really did nothing to change their position in the CL. Chelsea were already a very good team, and perennially in the CL. During Mourinho's reign there, he couldn't make it out of the first knockout round. Sounds like his tenure with Inter?

And so maybe, Mourinho was really only special with Porto. Trust me, if winning the Premiership was such a big deal, Mourinho wouldn't have been sacked by Roman. And no, it didn't have to do with Sheva. It was because all these guys, Roman and Moratti, are sick of winning their league. They want the CL.
 

Atro

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You're saying it's laudable that Mourinho won the scudetto, with Mancini's squad. But this has been no different from his tenure at Chelsea.

The CL championship? I'm not going to take away from him on that. His Porto team stunned Man U, and even though the rest of their competition in the knockout phases were far from favorites, they stunned Man U, the favorite by far.

But then he moved to Chelsea, and really did nothing to change their position in the CL. Chelsea were already a very good team, and perennially in the CL. During Mourinho's reign there, he couldn't make it out of the first knockout round. Sounds like his tenure with Inter?

And so maybe, Mourinho was really only special with Porto. Trust me, if winning the Premiership was such a big deal, Mourinho wouldn't have been sacked by Roman. And no, it didn't have to do with Sheva. It was because all these guys, Roman and Moratti, are sick of winning their league. They want the CL.

So many contradictions!

first of all, Chelsea's was NOT a CL perennial. They were there a season before Mourinho came with a nice Semis with Ranieri.
second, Abrahamovic doesn't have any right to "demand" right away a Champions League victory. Money alone isn't enough. How come you say he was sacked when he was the one resigning? Moreover, Abrahamovic could never demand a CL when a club like his, never even won a Premiership in the past 50 years.

Scudetto with Mancini's team? gimme a break! they played NOTHING like they did with Mancini, new killer players came and even Mancini's favorite defender ( Materrazzi ) was in the disposable players list.

You can say so about Chelsea's teams. All coaches had the vital base that Mourinho mounted and none were successful in exception for Guus England Cup victory.

Any team who's in lack of victories would like to have Mourinho on their squad, period.
Ah noooo, wait!!! He's only lucky!!! Yeah right...

It'd make really much more sense if you said that you dislike the guy ( and believe me, I would understand!!! ) , you're too smart in my book to declare such sore comments.
 
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evil wasabi

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Roman gave Mou 3 seasons. If anything, Roman gave Mou all the chances that he never gave Scolari. Why did Mourinho leave Chelsea? If you remember, it was because he was given the option to leave on his own or be led out. He took the option that saved him at least some dignity. Do you remember how it got to that point? Mourinho was a media disaster in the PL with his mindgames and trash talking. He hasn't changed. He inherited great teams that can win on their own.

Since he took over Inter, sure, he won the scudetto, but Ibra left, and we see a Seria A in decline. Sure, it was in decline before Mourinho, but he surely has not righted the ship.

edit: lol Materazzi. Obviously too much ego between him and Mou.

So many contradictions!

first of all, Chelsea's was NOT a CL perennial. They were there a season before Mourinho came with a nice Semis with Ranieri.
second, Abrahamovic doesn't have any right to "demand" right away a Champions League victory. Money alone isn't enough. How come you say he was sacked when he was the one resigning? Moreover, Abrahamovic could never demand a CL when a club like his, never even won a Premiership in the past 50 years.

Scudetto with Mancini's team? gimme a break! they played NOTHING like they did with Mancini, new killer players came and even Mancini's favorite defender ( Materrazzi ) was in the disposable players list.

You can say so about Chelsea's teams. All coaches had the vital base that Mourinho mounted and none were successful in exception for Guus England Cup victory.

Any team who's in lack of victories would like to have Mourinho on their squad, period.
Ah noooo, wait!!! He's only lucky!!! Yeah right...

It'd make really much more sense if you said that you dislike the guy ( and believe me, I would understand!!! ) , you're too smart in my book to declare such sore comments.
 

Atro

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"you have 3 seasons to win the CL or you're sacked"

Name me a President that say that to his new coach and I'll clap hands.

Winning the CL is more than wishing and hiring to take the cup home.
Being obsessed to get it like Madrid long awaited 10th CL, Inter fascination or Chelsea's dream is bullcrap. They don't play alone. They have another contenders and if you rollback a bit, the last team who won more than 1 CL in a row was the Fantastic AC Milan ( 4-0 against Steaua Bucarest and 1-0 against Benfica ) , just to let you realize how hard is to win this trophy.

Manchester could have done it last season, Barcelona can do it this one.

Since the Bosman law was introduced, guessing who's gonna win a CL is like picking a random ball from a pot. You cannot ask any coach to win it just because you want to. You have to be good, lucky, have some referee help ( look at Barcelona's draw at Stamford Bridge last season ), have a non-pussy coach and pray to god to win. So many more factors I could go on and on.

He inherited great teams that can win on their own.

Tell me why Chelsea didn't make it with Ranieri, Grant, Scolari or Hiddink.
Shouldn't Chelsea win by its own? :oh_no:

How many points lead Inter had with Mancini's last Serie A victory? 3. 3 points ahead Roma.
How many points lead Mourinho won the Scudetto on his FIRST season? 10.
Yes, TEN to runner-up Juventus ( they didn't had negative point on that season like Milan had on the previous ).

Trash talk and mind games are more than strategies. While he gets the attention from that, he leaves his players out of pressure. It works. I don't see you complaining about Ferguson tho.. he's always bitching about referees and stuff. He also does that, but he isn't as good as Mourinho.

I may sound a die hard Mourinho fan, but I assure you not. When he was in Porto believe me I wanted him dead.
But facts are facts and you cannot invent or pull ideas from your head to lower him down.
Mancini's got one of the richest owners of Football clubs in Manchester City.
Do you really think with that Sheik money he's going to pull something out? Forget about it. He's there for the money. Mourinho's would wage less just for the challenge.

Won everything in Portugal, everything in England, almost everything in Italy ( misses the Italian cup ) and almost everything in Europe ( only missed the European Supercup ) , and yet, he's trash. He sucks. He's lucky. He's a moron or whatever.
Ok, but he wins. Always win.
Next step, will be winning the Spanish league or leading Liverpool back to where it belongs. Mark this words.

It's really amusing to argue football with you :tickled: I come in here when I'm bored to hell and always find something interesting to reply to!:buttrock:
 

evil wasabi

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3 seasons to win the CL is pretty much what Abramovich expected, as well as the immature and over-rich Abu Dhabi United Group, and hell, Florentino at Madrid. Pellegrini is already on his way out, and hopefully back to Villareal... And you're right, it's not like a team can just buy a CL, but to be honest, either that's been Florentino's master plan, or he thinks selling the most shirts is second to godliness.

Anyhow, Chelsea didn't make it because the competition has been so strong. Manchester had brought in C Ronaldo, Vidic, and Tevez, and the team developed a very good cohesion. Chelsea has had that for a while, but it takes a few years to develop. And overall, the Premier League is a very strong one, and that goes without debate. There are a lot of very good teams in it.

Serie A is not that good. When the departure of Ibra signals the decline of the Serie A, just one player leaves, that's a problem. And that's why Inter were 10 points ahead. Inter's distance from the pack is not solely because of the team not the manager, AT ALL. Inter can only win so many points. It can only take away 6 points from each team. The competitions' failure to be good is where the problem lies. Milan and Juventus are the second and third best in Italy. Everyone else is so hit and miss. 2007-2008 when Roma were so close to Inter wasn't because Inter had a weaker coach, but because Spaletti cared and the team thought they could win it. For many, when the victory is not seen in the hand, it's not seen worth striving for.

I'm not taking away from what Mou won in Portugal or England, but since Porto, owners have never looked at him as a guy that would win them what they already have. Think Moratti wanted someone to win them the supercup or the scudetto? Moratti already had a few of those. He wants a CL. Roman wanted a CL. These teams don't even have a single CL championship, I think (need to check). These guys will say 3 years and you're sacked because unlike Porto, these teams come in stacked with proven talent. And to be honest, Chelsea was a lot more stacked than Inter. Inter was a much better side in 2007 with Figo, Zlatan and Adriano. Now their biggest asset is the patheticness of Serie A.

"you have 3 seasons to win the CL or you're sacked"

Name me a President that say that to his new coach and I'll clap hands.

Winning the CL is more than wishing and hiring to take the cup home.
Being obsessed to get it like Madrid long awaited 10th CL, Inter fascination or Chelsea's dream is bullcrap. They don't play alone. They have another contenders and if you rollback a bit, the last team who won more than 1 CL in a row was the Fantastic AC Milan ( 4-0 against Steaua Bucarest and 1-0 against Benfica ) , just to let you realize how hard is to win this trophy.

Manchester could have done it last season, Barcelona can do it this one.

Since the Bosman law was introduced, guessing who's gonna win a CL is like picking a random ball from a pot. You cannot ask any coach to win it just because you want to. You have to be good, lucky, have some referee help ( look at Barcelona's draw at Stamford Bridge last season ), have a non-pussy coach and pray to god to win. So many more factors I could go on and on.



Tell me why Chelsea didn't make it with Ranieri, Grant, Scolari or Hiddink.
Shouldn't Chelsea win by its own? :oh_no:

How many points lead Inter had with Mancini's last Serie A victory? 3. 3 points ahead Roma.
How many points lead Mourinho won the Scudetto on his FIRST season? 10.
Yes, TEN to runner-up Juventus ( they didn't had negative point on that season like Milan had on the previous ).

Trash talk and mind games are more than strategies. While he gets the attention from that, he leaves his players out of pressure. It works. I don't see you complaining about Ferguson tho.. he's always bitching about referees and stuff. He also does that, but he isn't as good as Mourinho.

I may sound a die hard Mourinho fan, but I assure you not. When he was in Porto believe me I wanted him dead.
But facts are facts and you cannot invent or pull ideas from your head to lower him down.
Mancini's got one of the richest owners of Football clubs in Manchester City.
Do you really think with that Sheik money he's going to pull something out? Forget about it. He's there for the money. Mourinho's would wage less just for the challenge.

Won everything in Portugal, everything in England, almost everything in Italy ( misses the Italian cup ) and almost everything in Europe ( only missed the European Supercup ) , and yet, he's trash. He sucks. He's lucky. He's a moron or whatever.
Ok, but he wins. Always win.
Next step, will be winning the Spanish league or leading Liverpool back to where it belongs. Mark this words.

It's really amusing to argue football with you :tickled: I come in here when I'm bored to hell and always find something interesting to reply to!:buttrock:
 
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