Eprom Burner and Eraser

Xian Xi · Oct 21, 2009

I've been debating on diving into this but these are what I am looking at. Let me know if it's not what I need. I just want to be able to burn Unibios and Neo Rom chips for when I do mods and repairs.

Burner/Programmer

Eprom Eraser

I don't think these will work with OSX on a Mac so it would be used via XP on my PC.

TheBakachan · Oct 21, 2009

I've actually been wanting to get one for a while now, and might finally do it in the next couple of weeks. To burn BIOS ROMs, you'd need the additional 16-bit EPROM adapter board, to handle 27C1024 1mbit EPROMs.

I know a source on eBay that has various EPROMs and also sells surface mount 62256 SRAM like what's used on the NEO-GEO boards. I ordered from them a little while ago, and the package is due to arrive soon. I'll keep you posted.

Oh, I almost forgot, that 16-bit adapter will do the BIOS ROMs and other 40-pin 16-bit EPROMs, but you need an adapter with a 42-pin connector if you want to do stuff like 27C322 32mbit EPROMs. (You can also find 16-bit adapters that have both 40 and 42 pin capability) I don't know much about the compatibility of the adapters between all the many different Willem boards out there though, that's one of the things that I'm hung up on. ;[

It's probably also worth mentioning that the Willem programmer is capable of testing 3 of the 4 types of SRAM on neo boards. :3 (6116, 6264, and 62256)

andy251203 · Oct 21, 2009

I've got that dual power willem myself. It's not the best, but it's been getting the job done for 2 years now.

Oh and BTW, that eprom eraser, as well as most of the ebay Chinese ones are 240V... I was lucky enough to get the one that Fry's Electronics carries for $20 thanks to it being on closeout. I doubt they still carry it, though.

channelmaniac · Oct 21, 2009

Dude... if you're going to do this as a business, get a decent programmer.

The Willems are flakey and give lots of problems.

ReplicaX · Oct 21, 2009

channelmaniac said:
Dude... if you're going to do this as a business, get a decent programmer.

The Willems are flakey and give lots of problems.

I recently snagged a Pocket Programmer III and a UV Eraser. Still messing around with it. Seems to be a good mid price range programmer though. At least this one is power bricked as most of the pos Ebay Willems aren't.

Having issues programming 27C4096s atm, but they are looking into it.

Xian Xi · Oct 21, 2009

What do you reccomend?

ReplicaX · Oct 21, 2009

eetools.com has good ones but are in the higher price bracket.
I'm still messing around with this PPIII, but it does alot of standard DIPs without adapters and it's power bricked which helps with older chips.

I would just do it right the 1st first time and not burn money on cheap Chinese Willems...

mainman · Oct 21, 2009

I have a chipmax 2, 48 pin burner. It can burn any dip package I throw at it. However with a recent project, I need to be able to burn TSOP chip which the chipmax can do but the manufacturer screws you with add on adapters which cost a quarter of the actual burner. I can do this same job with a willems at a fraction of the cost.

Bottom line is despite protest the Willem programmer will get the job done reliably and is perfect for burning the rom you quoted, get a willems bottom line.

channelmaniac · Oct 21, 2009

I have a ROMMax from eeTools and it will program just about any semi-modern device I need burned. It will also do the odd 24 pin 64k EPROMs such as the Motorola 68764/68766.

I also have a TOP2004 Chinese programmer (doesn't do 16bit EPROMs) that I started out with. It works in a pinch and I carry it with my laptop when I go on site for bulk board buys to help ID unknown boards.

For old old oddball chips such as the TMS2716 (3 voltage level 16k EPROMs) or old fuse link PROMs, I have a Data I/O Series 22.

The ROMMax was big $$$ - about $500, but it has paid for itself many times over. I use it for blank testing EPROMs, burning replacement ROMs/PROMs for fixing boards, and for programming devices for customers. It also tests generic logic chips (74xx), common static RAMs, and common dynamic RAMs.

The software for the ROMMax is stable and flat out works. The TOP programmers are finicky when it comes to software. Different versions have bugs that result in some devices not programming correctly. You'll also run into problems with USB ports and the amounts of power they can supply.

There are similar issues with software problems and USB supplied power when using the Willem programmers. Also, there are different build qualities on the Willem programmers and a variety of dip switches and jumpers depending on the model you get. Get one with an external adapter and you'll have better reliability on programming.

Bottom line? I would only recommend the Willem or the TOP line of programmers for a first purchase if you must be able to program chips quickly and have no money for a better programmer. Use it and save your money for something better.

RJ

Xian Xi · Oct 21, 2009

I'm only looking to spend about $100.

mainman · Oct 21, 2009

Xian Xi said:
I'm only looking to spend about $100.

If you don't want a willems these will work and are of better quality

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADVANCED-EPROM-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea85eadf9

http://cgi.ebay.com/EasyPro-90B-Uni...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d432a9c

channelmaniac said:
I have a ROMMax from eeTools and it will program just about any semi-modern device I need burned. It will also do the odd 24 pin 64k EPROMs such as the Motorola 68764/68766.

I also have a TOP2004 Chinese programmer (doesn't do 16bit EPROMs) that I started out with. It works in a pinch and I carry it with my laptop when I go on site for bulk board buys to help ID unknown boards.

For old old oddball chips such as the TMS2716 (3 voltage level 16k EPROMs) or old fuse link PROMs, I have a Data I/O Series 22.

The ROMMax was big $$$ - about $500, but it has paid for itself many times over. I use it for blank testing EPROMs, burning replacement ROMs/PROMs for fixing boards, and for programming devices for customers. It also tests generic logic chips (74xx), common static RAMs, and common dynamic RAMs.

The software for the ROMMax is stable and flat out works. The TOP programmers are finicky when it comes to software. Different versions have bugs that result in some devices not programming correctly. You'll also run into problems with USB ports and the amounts of power they can supply.

There are similar issues with software problems and USB supplied power when using the Willem programmers. Also, there are different build qualities on the Willem programmers and a variety of dip switches and jumpers depending on the model you get. Get one with an external adapter and you'll have better reliability on programming.

Bottom line? I would only recommend the Willem or the TOP line of programmers for a first purchase if you must be able to program chips quickly and have no money for a better programmer. Use it and save your money for something better.

RJ

yeah but I imagine you use your equipment a lot to the point it has long since paid for itself man, He's just looking for something he will need to only pull out on rare occasions.

TheBakachan · Oct 21, 2009

mainman said:
yeah but I imagine you use your equipment a lot to the point it has long since paid for itself man, He's just looking for something he will need to only pull out on rare occasions.

I'm in the same boat. >$100 is more than I want to spend when all I want is to burn a couple BIOS ROMs and play around with all the @#$&ing PUZZLE BOBBLE boots I seem to be collecting. :P (Also, two of them used to be other games and still have most of the mask ROMs in place, it'd be cool to burn EPROMs for the missing ROMs and revive them as the original games!)

The problem, as I understand it, with the Willem programmers is that it's a real crapshoot....just about everyone who sells them is producing their own variation of the board with various fixes or improvements...or not. I've tried doing some research into all the different versions via user groups....the results were less than helpful. :[

About the only thing I could determine is that it seems many if not most will at least get the job done to some degree. (Even if it takes several tries)

As for the burners you linked to, the first one looks promising. Know anything more about it?

Kyuusaku · Oct 21, 2009

If you just need to program EPROM and 8-bit Flash, get a Willem (with 16-bit EPROM adapter). If you're into PLD and MCU you'll need something else (I like Wellon). Make sure you get a modified "true USB" model if you don't have a parallel port because most of them will only use USB for power.

Artemio · Oct 21, 2009

I recently got myself a wellon (VP-380) and it works really well for CPS-2 roms (27C4096) and the Neo Geo Unibios (27C1024).

I've also been using it to dump all the roms on my PCBs and so far I've been successful, I'll also probably play around with those later on. I also plan to use it for some other projects though.

Murray · Oct 21, 2009

Xian Xi said:
What do you reccomend?

I got the setup I mentioned a while back when I asked about it and I couldn't be happier. I've successfully programmed chips for Genesis games, a Ghostlop cart, and some Universe bioses (updates to the ones I bought). It's not industrial strength by any stretch but it gets the job done well.

I also can vouch for IC-China on eBay. Shipping takes forever (a couple of weeks for me) but their prices are good and the chips work.

This programmer
This eraser
This adapter
Also this expansion header for 27C1000s.

Nice features include not needing an external power supply and confirmed working 100% with Vista and XP (tested myself).

werejag · Oct 22, 2009

Xian Xi

i have myself two of the mcumall's GQ-3X and these are solid no dipswitch hell flashers i have throw everything at and no issues.

Xian Xi · Oct 22, 2009

Ok, here are some questions I think would help me.

What type of eproms are in:

Old Neo carts (Blues Journey, BBSP, 8 man)
New Neo Carts (Metal Slug, blah blah)
Unibios

What is the 8bit and 16bit adapters for exactly?

What is the ideal erase time using a UV eraser?

Thanks, sorry.

Murray · Oct 22, 2009

Xian Xi said:
Ok, here are some questions I think would help me.

What type of eproms are in:

Old Neo carts (Blues Journey, BBSP, 8 man)
New Neo Carts (Metal Slug, blah blah)
Unibios

What is the 8bit and 16bit adapters for exactly?

What is the ideal erase time using a UV eraser?

Thanks, sorry.

Neo carts seem to mostly be 27C800 (8mb), 27C160 (16mb), 27C322 (32mb), 27C010, 27C1000. There are probably some older ones that would use some 27C400 (4mb). It depends on the cart and the size of the roms. Universe Bios is 27C1024. I'm sure someone could fill you in a little better here. I'm no expert.

Erase time is trial and error. You basically want to use as little time as possible to get it erased and it's different for each manufacturer and chip. I find that 10 minutes is a good starting point. If it's still not empty, another 5 usually gets it done.

You need the adapter because the programmer can't program the 16-bit chips without it. It will do stuff like the 27C010 but 27C1024, 27C800, 160, etc. require the adapter. The 27C1000 is what uses the extra pin header.

TheBakachan · Oct 22, 2009

Xian Xi said:
Ok, here are some questions I think would help me.

What type of eproms are in:

Old Neo carts (Blues Journey, BBSP, 8 man)
New Neo Carts (Metal Slug, blah blah)
Unibios

What is the 8bit and 16bit adapters for exactly?

What is the ideal erase time using a UV eraser?

Thanks, sorry.

In general, all the EPROMs you're likely to be using are 27C* series. Other than that, it comes down to the capacity. For carts, this can vary widely. For the BIOS ROMs it's the 27C1024, a 16-bit 1 megabit EPROM.

I can give you some examples from a couple EPROM-based boots I have handy: 27C4096, 27C240, 27C322, 27C402, 27C4100 are among what might be used for P* V* or C* ROMs. 27C301, 27C010, 27C100, 27C1000 are some of the capacities you might see used for M* and S* ROMs. I don't know anything about EEPROMs and flash though.

The 16-bit adapter allows the programmer to address 16-bit EPROMs. You would want one that supports 40-pin (1-4mbit) and 42-pin (Up to 32mbit) EPROMS.

The general rule of thumb I was told for UV EPROM erasure is to keep erasing in couple-minute increments until testing the chip shows it to be completely erased, and then tack some extra time on and use that as a baseline for any chips of that make/type.

I'm sure some people with more hands-on experience can shed more light, but hopefully I saved them some time. (Not like I'm doing anything else today, heh.)

---update---

Damn, I walk away to get a soda before submitting, and look what happens! lol, oh well.

Xian Xi · Oct 22, 2009

Any difference other than interface between a parallel and usb burner?

channelmaniac · Oct 22, 2009

USB = pull power from the USB port. Doesn't always supply enough power for older chips - especially NMOS types.

USB + Power Supply = Much better than plain USB for programming older chips

Parallel = requires an external power supply to run. Much better than plain USB for programming older chips.

USB is supposed to be faster.

My ROMMax is parallel port connected and does just fine.

werejag · Oct 22, 2009

the mcumall's usb programmers do not need ext power to flash the bigest eproms ive use 27c4096

Dion · Oct 22, 2009

I've used Willems for 6 years. I have two of them now. The newest one is twice as fast as the older one but I can at least burn two chips at once. My old one wouldn't properly burn 27c322 so I had to get a dual power one with a power adapter. I have a simple dip40 adaptor for 27c4096 and 27c4002. My newer adaptor has a dip40 and dip42 socket on it. The willem adaptors are on ebay but you have to kinda look for them. Willems work great for me, though.

I ordered my eraser off of a site I found doing a google search. It was like $20 but can only do 3 to 4 chips at once. Kind of a pain but works for me.

Artemio · Oct 22, 2009

For erasure times I always read the recommended time on the specific EPROM spech sheet (just search for it on google).

Xian Xi · Oct 23, 2009

So I might be getting a willem programmer with the 16-bit adapter (40+42 pin sockets) parallel port version.

Any objections?

Eprom Burner and Eraser

JammaNationX,

Krauser's Shoe Shiner

Hardened Shock Trooper

Mr Neo Fix-it

Unholy Custom Rank.,

JammaNationX,

Unholy Custom Rank.,

CPS2 Person.,

Mr Neo Fix-it

JammaNationX,

CPS2 Person.,

Krauser's Shoe Shiner

B. Jenet's Firstmate

NEST Puppet

Akari's Big Brother

Galford's Poppy Trainer

JammaNationX,

Akari's Big Brother

Krauser's Shoe Shiner

JammaNationX,

Mr Neo Fix-it

Galford's Poppy Trainer

Known Scammer, NeoGeoFreak Co-Founder

NEST Puppet

JammaNationX,