New TV set - new problem

Takumaji

Takumaji

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I bought a new TV set, a digital Thomson with a 70 cm tube, 100 Hz and 3 scart ports, two of them are RGB-ready. It's a multinorm unit, thus capable of PAL/NTSC with 50/60Hz. The consoles are connected via scart/RGB. The TV I used before was an analogue one, and the problem did not occur with it.

All my other consoles (PSX, Genesis, Neo CD, DC, etc.) run perfectly on the new TV, with a very sharp and clear picture, but my Japanese Neo AES shows very faint horizontal lines moving from top to bottom.

These lines can be seen in brighter backgrounds, such as the bright blue sky in the first stage of MS4 or the char select of KoF 2k1 with its white-ish back, etc.

I already tried it with a different power supply, different RGB cables, changed the RGB port on the TV, fiddled with all the contrast/brightness/sharpness settings, to no avail.

Has anyone experienced this too? What's the problem here?
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Btw., the stripes move from bottom to top.

...and BUMP!
 
C

cgun

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Hmmm, i have no idea. It sounds like you've been testing all solutions i had i mind already. I get a problem like that when the RGB is loose in the console or the port on the TV.

Check so that all the pins are there on your RGB-cables and make sure none of the are loose. But i guess you've already tried this.

I have no idea :(
 
Wolf

Wolf

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Some of the Neo models had very weak RGB output. You can get yours modded by !Arcade! to output a stronger RGB signal.

Make sure you check your cables, but it sounds like you just have a weak Neo.
 
buster_broon

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I have a phillips 100hz digital scan matchline(33inch)

I haven't noticed a problem when playing games but if i try to copy a DVD to video tape i always get those lines moving from bottom to top

At first i thought it was macrovision but it also happens with VCD's

I have just put it down to NTSC problems since it only happens with region 1's and imported Vcd's

Have you checked the bios in the television to make sure it has been set up the correct NTSC as there are 2 versions

I know one is called 443ntsc unsure of the other one

I hate my tv as you cannot play light gun games on it - unable to turn of the digital scan :(
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Thanks for the replies so far.

buster_broon, according to the data sheet of the Thomson 28DN400G, the unit is capable of both NTSC modes, 4.43 and 3.58.

In the meantime, I tried it with a completely shielded RGB cable (from a TV test equipment supply), used a stabilized power supply, the lines are still there.

Wolf, how much does Ray ask for the RGB mod? Could he do repairs also if my AES happens to be damaged in some way?
 
buster_broon

buster_broon

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Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>
buster_broon, according to the data sheet of the Thomson 28DN400G, the unit is capable of both NTSC modes, 4.43 and 3.58.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

My tv can do both as well but not at the same time

I have to pick manually in the TV's bios if i need to change it

:)
Click to expand...
 
A

Amano Jacu

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How do you access your TV bios?
I have a Sony KV21M3E, and I read about how to enter the "test mode" in a site, but it just didn't work. I wanted to change the geometry as I miss a part of the screen in most games and in fact the screen is not perfectly parallel!
 
E

eggplant_casserole

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try 50hz mode. Are you running 50 or 60Hz on the Neo? Could be the TV doesn't like doing 60 in 100Hz mode, could be it doesn't like the Neo in 100Hz mode.
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Originally posted by eggplant_casserole:
<strong>try 50hz mode. Are you running 50 or 60Hz on the Neo? Could be the TV doesn't like doing 60 in 100Hz mode, could be it doesn't like the Neo in 100Hz mode.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As I wrote before, all my other consoles work perfectly with the new TV set, and all of them run on 60Hz, it's just the AES which shows the lines.

Meanwhile, I followed several advises regarding "video feedback" and tried lots of things, but the fucking lines are still wandering slowly from bottom to top. Aaarggh! <img src="graemlins/blowtop.gif" border="0" alt="[Blow Top]" />

A colleague of mine bought a similar Thomson 100Hz TV, so I will drag my AES over to his place and try it on his TV. If the lines are still there, it must be somethin' in the AES's video decoder/output. God damn digital rubbish... :(
Click to expand...
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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UPDATE: I said that none of my other consoles would show this error.

Well, yesterday I was playing the Game Works Vol.1 compilation on DC, and guess what, while playing Out Run (with lots of bright blue sky in the back), the stripes were also visible!

Perhaps the new TV doesn't like resolutions like 320x224 (Neo)... can anyone confirm the res of Out Run being 320x224?
 
MKL

MKL

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Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>can anyone confirm the res of Out Run being 320x224?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Arcade Out Run is indeed 320x224.
Click to expand...
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Thanks MKL.

I've sent a mail to Thomson Europe, as my problem seem to be games/systems with a resolution of 320x224, running at 60Hz.

The only illogical thing is that the Neo CD runs smoothly, without any stripes. The Neo CD should have the same res than the AES, so... ...aw crap.

I will bump this up as soon as new info arrives...
 
J

JHendrix

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Dude, it's the AES. Not the TV. The CD games run at the same resolution/frequency. The AES needs to have it's output "fixed" by !Arcade! or someone else. I've had similar problems using composite video (wavy lines), and the problem came from the cable being loose, meaning it wasn't able to send the right voltages to the TV or the TV couldn't get a good ground connection. You're TV may just be more sensitive to it than others. I suggest trying a different AES just to make sure, but honestly I think that it's gotta be the system.

Peace

JHendrix
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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JHendrix, yep, Wolf also mentioned that my AES might have a weak RGB output. I got in touch with Ray already, but the prices for his mods are a bit steep to be honest.

While we're at it, does anyone know what Ray actually does if he mods the RGB on AES? Shouldn't be impossible to do myself, provided I get the parts (if necessary).

The thing that bugs me is that my DC also shows these lines if I play Out Run from the Game Works collection, which runs at a resolution of 320x224 like the AES... so I figured that there might be a specific problem with the Thomson TV and 320x224 at 60Hz.
 
J

JHendrix

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Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>JHendrix, yep, Wolf also mentioned that my AES might have a weak RGB output. I got in touch with Ray already, but the prices for his mods are a bit steep to be honest.

While we're at it, does anyone know what Ray actually does if he mods the RGB on AES? Shouldn't be impossible to do myself, provided I get the parts (if necessary).

The thing that bugs me is that my DC also shows these lines if I play Out Run from the Game Works collection, which runs at a resolution of 320x224 like the AES... so I figured that there might be a specific problem with the Thomson TV and 320x224 at 60Hz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't know what he does for it really, but honestly did you ever think of running through S-Video? It's almost as nice as RGB and it might eliminate the problem. Do you have a S-Video mod installed?

Also, did you see if it has the problem through composite video?

Peace

JHendrix
Click to expand...
 
Takumaji

Takumaji

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Yeah, I will try it with S-video, perhaps this will be the answer. I must have a sub-d/DIN-to-s-video plug somewhere...

Btw., I got a reply from Thomson Europe, or better from the UK/US branch, with a hilarious English-to-German translation done by Babelfish... not very professional, eh.

Anyway, they say they haven't got any infos about display probs with certain resolutions and 60Hz, and that my consoles would be the problem, certainly not the TV. Well, that's what they think.

Last night I was talking with some techie friends again... we will take the AES and measure the output with an oscilloscope, compare this to the Neo CD output and look for noisy lines.
 
J

JHendrix

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Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>
Last night I was talking with some techie friends again... we will take the AES and measure the output with an oscilloscope, compare this to the Neo CD output and look for noisy lines.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Nice. Now that is hardcore my friend. :D

Peace

JHendrix
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ttooddddyy

ttooddddyy

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Maybe a screening problem with the connecting leads, the levels are standard, that sould not be an issue(dont think its a weak rgb output). But if you have poor screening weird effects can occure. Make sure the cables are well screened and grounded both ends.

PS this is just theory, have no experience with aes.
 
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