Interference in some Neo Geo games... what causes it?

RabbitTroop · Jan 27, 2003

OK, quick question that I haver never seen brought up here. Some games, off the top of my head I will say SS4 and ROTD I know for sure do it, will have a flashy sort of interference on the MVS. This is seen by woobly images (text, characters, etc) ever so slightly... like an interference. This happens on both my 4 slot in my candy and 2 slot in my conversion cab. All the while other games, like currently Puzzled and Kabuki Klash are in the cab as well and have none of this interference.

I have seen this on a few other games as well and I have no idea what is causing it. I know it is not a particular wirring problem since both my machines have the same problem with only these select games (all other games are completly crisp with none of this interference). And, other games in the machine do not have the interference... This is a odd thing to describe, but I think you all have seen it before and know what I mean.

Anyway... what is it, and is there a way to stop it?

-Nick

DanAdamKOF · Jan 27, 2003

My cab gets that kind of thing when the TV and computer are on in the same room. Seems to happen every game, though.

RabbitTroop · Jan 27, 2003

DanAdamKOF:
My cab gets that kind of thing when the TV and computer are on in the same room. Seems to happen every game, though.

Yeah... this problem is game specific... only certain games do it and it seems to be only some of the newer games, I have never seen an older game do it.... especially not the old low memory games or 330 MEGA games. I was thinking it was a memory addressing thing or chip placement in the cart.

-Nick

kernow · Jan 28, 2003

hmm interesting, I know I get lots of flicker and anomilies with metal slug 3, but none with the other games.

Although I _have noticed it on the other games too, in times of severe slowdown (slug1)

RabbitTroop · Jan 28, 2003

kernow:
hmm interesting, I know I get lots of flicker and anomilies with metal slug 3, but none with the other games.

Although I _have noticed it on the other games too, in times of severe slowdown (slug1)

Well it is not flicker, I know what you are talking about on MS3 and a few other games... but this is really something that happens all the time, from the game intro and title screen into the game. God I wish I could just show you all what it looked like... must find digital video camera... anyway, it is more like watching Dr. Katz... hehe, like Squiggle vision. Not horrible, but the characters and text and etc (whole game) squiggle.... Someone must have seen this before... anyone?

-Nick

neo_frank · Jan 28, 2003

I have a supergun setup, and I just got a new Shock Troopers 2 kit, I noticed this type of thing at the top part of the screen, graphics are kinda shifted sometimes, squiggly is a good description. This is the only game I have really seen this in, and I thought it was kind of peculiar, and wasnt sure if it was the game, or what. Could this be the same problem you having? I thought it maybe a voltage issue? That might explain why it is on newer higher meg carts mostly, since I think they tend to need that steady +5 (i think thats what it is) more so than older carts.

kernow · Jan 28, 2003

I think power has something to do with it indeed :/

wizdum · Jan 28, 2003

sounds like a power issue to me.

kernow · Jan 28, 2003

I'm using an ATX psu to power my board,

I might be switching to an enclosed unit from Jameco, much like the unit powering the shadow4 (apparently). I've got the unit, but I havent tried it yet.

candycab · Jan 28, 2003

neo_frank:
I have a supergun setup, and I just got a new Shock Troopers 2 kit, I noticed this type of thing at the top part of the screen, graphics are kinda shifted sometimes, squiggly is a good description. This is the only game I have really seen this in, and I thought it was kind of peculiar, and wasnt sure if it was the game, or what. Could this be the same problem you having? I thought it maybe a voltage issue? That might explain why it is on newer higher meg carts mostly, since I think they tend to need that steady +5 (i think thats what it is) more so than older carts.

I have a friend whos shock troopers 2 does the exact same thing , I think thats something that is inherant to that particular game , since I have yet to see one that dosent do it. Sort of like the way league bowling is a bit off and zupapa has odd lines along the sides.

As for what nruva is experiencing , Ive never had any interferance on any of my games.

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: candycab ]</small>

Yodd · Jan 28, 2003

kernow:
I'm using an ATX psu to power my board,

I might be switching to an enclosed unit from Jameco, much like the unit powering the shadow4 (apparently). I've got the unit, but I havent tried it yet.

kernow: What Jameco unit are you thinking of using? I am looking for a nice tabletop enclosed unit for a new project and didn't really see any that they had that fit the bill.

chris1 · Jan 28, 2003

I have a shock troopers 2 but it doesn't do that.

I think I know what you are talking about though.

None of my games give me any problems like that.

I do get slowdown when playing certain games with others.

I think it's a MEG-Voltage problem.
The higher Meg games may be pulling for to much voltage at certain times and that causes the games to quiver.
This could be a power surge from your AC outlet.
While playing these higher Meg games it may be pulling more voltage from the wall or a strip board,since this happens with both cabs.

In person I can usually find out what's the problem it's so hard through the computer.

Try plugging in your cabs to another circuit inside your house.AC outlet.
Do you have anything major running on the same circuit?
I would like to say that this is a Definite cart issue.
Well this could be happening with certain Mother Boards.
I would shut my cab off quick if I saw something like that,and I'd shit..

Can you check the voltage regularity when the games are doing this to see if you are getting a sufficient drop in voltage?

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: chris1 ]</small>

kernow · Jan 28, 2003

broken:

kernow:
I'm using an ATX psu to power my board,

I might be switching to an enclosed unit from Jameco, much like the unit powering the shadow4 (apparently). I've got the unit, but I havent tried it yet.

Click to expand...

kernow: What Jameco unit are you thinking of using? I am looking for a nice tabletop enclosed unit for a new project and didn't really see any that they had that fit the bill.

I'll get you piccies soon boyo

RabbitTroop · Jan 28, 2003

chris1:
I have a shock troopers 2 but it doesn't do that.

I think I know what you are talking about though.

None of my games give me any problems like that.

I do get slowdown when playing certain games with others.

I think it's a MEG-Voltage problem.
The higher Meg games may be pulling for to much voltage at certain times and that causes the games to quiver.
This could be a power surge from your AC outlet.
While playing these higher Meg games it may be pulling more voltage from the wall or a strip board,since this happens with both cabs.

In person I can usually find out what's the problem it's so hard through the computer.

Try plugging in your cabs to another circuit inside your house.AC outlet.
Do you have anything major running on the same circuit?
I would like to say that this is a Definite cart issue.
Well this could be happening with certain Mother Boards.
I would shut my cab off quick if I saw something like that,and I'd shit..

Can you check the voltage regularity when the games are doing this to see if you are getting a sufficient drop in voltage?

Well, the SS4 did this in FL and California... It did it on two seperate cabs too... and most of my games don't do it... actually I have quite a few giga power games that don't do it. Off the top of my head I know SS4 and ROTD do it. Can anyone pop in a SS4 or ROTD cart and see if they see the same thing? I may actually just buy another SS4, they are so cheap, and compare the two... maybe it is a bad game. If so, no biggie, I just got this ROTD and it can be swapped easily, and like I said SS4 is really cheap.

-Nick

RabbitTroop · Jan 28, 2003

I did a check on my PSU as well before, it seems to be automatic. I adjusted the 5v and it just kept going right back to 5v no matter how much I turned the nob (it would dip or rise then go right back to 5v)... SOOOOO, don't ask me what is up with that, but I don't think I am sold on the fact that my 5v is off... hmmm, so odd,

-Nick

neo_frank · Jan 28, 2003

I just popped in SS4 and I couldnt reproduce any of your problems :/ Have you cracked open the case to check if its an original cart, besides the voltage a bootleg cart would be the only other thing I could think, since it only happens on some games.

RabbitTroop · Jan 28, 2003

neo_frank:
I just popped in SS4 and I couldnt reproduce any of your problems :/ Have you cracked open the case to check if its an original cart, besides the voltage a bootleg cart would be the only other thing I could think, since it only happens on some games.

Every cart I buy is opened and inspected when I get it. It isn't a bootleg, they are also cleaned so that the cart pinout shouldn't be causing it... Anyway, I will take a look at more stuff tonight... Thanks guys... It is interesting to know others have SS4 without any interference,

-Nick

RabbitTroop · Jan 28, 2003

OK, so I took some readings tonight... +5 is reading at 5.02 to 5.03... No matter what I do, I can't bring it down to 5.00 even or get it to do anything, it seems to be autocorrecting to the 5.02... The flashes are still there, annoying... man...

-Nick

Bishamon · Jan 29, 2003

I have what might be a similar phenomenon with my SuperNova/MV-1F setup. It's therte in all games, but most noticable in bright, solid reds. Bright red letters have a wavy sortof disortion to them. It wasn't all that noticable on my old 40" LCD set unless there was bright text on a dark brackground, but on my new 43" DLP, it is apparent that there are faint lines moving on an angle 'up' the screen, and this is what is causing the bright red words to squiggle. I tried adjusting the +5v on the P.S., which did have an effect (it made the lines speed up or slow down), but this distortion never goes away, so I set the P.S. at precisely 5v.

I figure it is some intereference between the P.S. and the RGB to NTSC convertor in the SuperNova; I have a new supergun with JROK converter on the way; hopefully this will eliminate the problem.

ttooddddyy · Jan 29, 2003

nruva:
OK, so I took some readings tonight... +5 is reading at 5.02 to 5.03... No matter what I do, I can't bring it down to 5.00 even or get it to do anything, it seems to be autocorrecting to the 5.02... The flashes are still there, annoying... man...

-Nick

Sounds like the psu is not regulating properly, maybe a dry electro. Im sure thats your problem, maybe the newer carts demand more resources leading to increased current draw. Ive found 5.2 volts to be optimum operating voltage measured at the board.
Measure the voltage during gameplay, does it dip much ?

RabbitTroop · Jan 29, 2003

ttooddddyy:

nruva:
OK, so I took some readings tonight... +5 is reading at 5.02 to 5.03... No matter what I do, I can't bring it down to 5.00 even or get it to do anything, it seems to be autocorrecting to the 5.02... The flashes are still there, annoying... man...

-Nick

Click to expand...

Sounds like the psu is not regulating properly, maybe a dry electro. Im sure thats your problem, maybe the newer carts demand more resources leading to increased current draw. Ive found 5.2 volts to be optimum operating voltage measured at the board.
Measure the voltage during gameplay, does it dip much ?

It did last night, when I first turned on the machine I was getting a solid 5.02... then when Puzzled came on it hit as low is 3.42, but it was always 5.02 when ROTD was on. Also... after about 5 mins, the power no longer droped. So talk to me here... what could be causing this exactly? Do I need a new PSU? The problem is really minor, I guess I have learned to live with it in the newer carts, but getting it cleared up would be really cool.

-Nick

RabbitTroop · Jan 29, 2003

By the way, I am measuring this at the PSU, should I be taking readings at the board instead... off the harness?

-Nick

ttooddddyy · Jan 29, 2003

The 5 volts should always be measured at the board. Because of the high current draw (up to 5 amps) there will be voltage dropped accross the loom wiring. 5 volts at the psu may be as low as 4.5 at the board which could lead to problems.

It sounds like your psu is not regulating.
Dropping to 3.4 and not adjusting properly, may be caused by a faulty electro cap.

As a matter of interest, whats the 5 volt current rating of the psu.

RabbitTroop · Jan 29, 2003

ttooddddyy:
The 5 volts should always be measured at the board. Because of the high current draw (up to 5 amps) there will be voltage dropped accross the loom wiring. 5 volts at the psu may be as low as 4.5 at the board which could lead to problems.

It sounds like your psu is not regulating.
Dropping to 3.4 and not adjusting properly, may be caused by a faulty electro cap.

As a matter of interest, whats the 5 volt current rating of the psu.

OK, I will get some readings off the JAMMA edge tonight then and see what is making it to the board... I guess a new power supply may be in order.

-Nick

RabbitTroop · Jan 30, 2003

ttooddddyy:
The 5 volts should always be measured at the board. Because of the high current draw (up to 5 amps) there will be voltage dropped accross the loom wiring. 5 volts at the psu may be as low as 4.5 at the board which could lead to problems.

It sounds like your psu is not regulating.
Dropping to 3.4 and not adjusting properly, may be caused by a faulty electro cap.

As a matter of interest, whats the 5 volt current rating of the psu.

Hey one other question, what kind of damage can this sort of power drop do to a board... could it kill a slot? I had one of the slots in my 4 slot die and I am wondering if this is why....

-Nick

Interference in some Neo Geo games... what causes it?

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