Pop n Bounce

Think i just got a boot...

Case looks all ok but weird shiny chip visible through slats.... ill open up to get pics to be sure but looks like flashed window chip to me, also may be useful to others to see what a boot looks like. When i popped case no obvious snk logos and loads of wires and shiny window chips

Picture of geniune cart on external site
http://www.zen96737.zen.co.uk/pop_'n_bounce.htm

See my album for the cart I bought
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/album.php?albumid=126

talking to seller to resolve (not bought from neogeo site)
He wants cart back so i offered to remove pcbs and destroy them and then return the cart to him, don't want this bugger floating around!! . If you look at my album it has the cheek to not even have destroyed a geniune cart ;-)


one of the images:

100% bootleg. SNK never used MX maskroms on their carts. (Actually those are probably OTP EPROMs)

This is why I check even the ones with the legit case... what a great way to make money... take the real boards, pop them into a fake case and sell as legit, then turn around and sell the real case with fake boards -_-

Phyeir said:

This is why I check even the ones with the legit case... what a great way to make money... take the real boards, pop them into a fake case and sell as legit, then turn around and sell the real case with fake boards -_-

Click to expand...

im popping all my carts...breaks my heart to cut a seal dated 1996 etc...but these guys can get hold of labels and stick em on just as easy as anyone else.

So far just the 1 cart made me twitch... and thats the one with the pics. It looked all ok from the outside but the sun caught it at just the right angle and I saw a weird shine from stuff inside the case.

Problem is i need to verify a load of carts and also make sure that they work and I have no working Neo geo right now...

trebormills said:

im popping all my carts...breaks my heart to cut a seal dated 1996 etc...but these guys can get hold of labels and stick em on just as easy as anyone else.

So far just the 1 cart made me twitch... and thats the one with the pics. It looked all ok from the outside but the sun caught it at just the right angle and I saw a weird shine from stuff inside the case.

Problem is i need to verify a load of carts and also make sure that they work and I have no working Neo geo right now...

Click to expand...

Even I don't think I could do that to a side-sealed carts -_-

Obvious signs:
MX ROMs
EPROMs (though not always a sign of a boot)
Non-SNK boards (always a sign of a boot)
Non-SNK chips (only the earliest used off the shelf parts, most had custom chips)

Phyeir said:

Even I don't think I could do that to a side-sealed carts -_-

Click to expand...

Should that go in the faq thread???

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197353

I popped a sealed cart as from same seller...of course the bugger looks all legit.

Does it affect the price being sealed or is it more a case of not tampered with so therefore should be good?

I could tell from the label it was a boot.

Xian Xi said:

I could tell from the label it was a boot.

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Why/How ?? etc etc

Looked ok to me, but then i dont know much ;-)

On a legit label the box is a lot darker than the border. It's a medium gray, in your pic it's almost white.

Xian Xi said:

On a legit label the box is a lot darker than the border. It's a medium gray, in your pic it's almost white.

Click to expand...

In reality it is a bit darker but a good tip as its a faint grey......Thanks

All helps build my case.....

UPDATE
he wants cart back complete and untouched!!
Trying to persuade him to let me break the boards and return the cart and broken boards but if I want my money back i might not have a choice at the end of the day, need to check paypal point of view on that.

You'll get your money back, don't worry.

Well, shit. write "bootleg" on the label, and return it to him. Or write it in pencil on one of the chips, if you feel that strongly about it.

I'm not surprised he didn't let you keep the boards to destroy them, though; even if he is a completely honest seller, he may think you want to keep the boards or chips for the sake of keeping the game while claiming to destroy it.

Sorry to see ya ran into the boot, man.

mmsadda said:

Well, shit. write "bootleg" on the label, and return it to him. Or write it in pencil on one of the chips, if you feel that strongly about it.

I'm not surprised he didn't let you keep the boards to destroy them, though; even if he is a completely honest seller, he may think you want to keep the boards or chips for the sake of keeping the game while claiming to destroy it.

Sorry to see ya ran into the boot, man.

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Well the issue is persuading an "honest seller".

I will not keep boards.....i will snap them in half and return them with the untouched external case. I may need to re explain that to him. If he doesn't want me to destroy the cart then he wont want me to write on it I am sure. Well I guess no point debating it on here...he either excepts that the cart is bad and should be destroyed or does not. If he does not want it destroyed I am concerned over how honest they are...claims never heard of illegal carts existing.

I wonder if anyone knows paypals position on me demanding a refund before returning cart and/or returning destroyed cart and then making sure thats not used as an excuse to not refund me the money.

Re running into a boot...shit happens...worst case is I return cart and get money back. Paid with credit card via paypal so I know cc will cover my back.

Thanks for the support and info

If you wanted to do something more discrete to take out the boot, just get a good static charge and wipe the chips out. Less obvious.

It'd take more than a static charge to erase an OTP EPROM.

get a UV light.

Xian Xi said:

get a UV light.

Click to expand...

EDIT:
No need to do anything malicious.... vendor finally agreed to let me destroy and refund in full. I have pics of my fun in gallery of shame
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/album.php?albumid=126

Now concernded over other carts he sent...do they work? Cant test till after weekend :-(

Anyway just got a load of new carts arrive and got scared my puzzle bobble was a fake but it looks pretty similar to following (got it for a good price so was a bit concerned)

http://www.zen96737.zen.co.uk/puzzle_bobble_mixed.htm

Need to find covers for exposed roms as I dont have no covers on mine

This link good for checking re boots
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197353
and
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120255

Just use electrical tape over the EPROMs if you are concerned.

madman said:

Just use electrical tape over the EPROMs if you are concerned.

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Just what i was thinking
so as you say good ill try that

Ta

GUESS ITS TIME TO LOCK THIS THREAD DOWN

Dude, for what it's worth, you're being pretty vindictive here. If he's refunding the cartridge, it's his choice whether he lets the chips/boards be destroyed or not. If he refused to refund, I'd say take him to the cleaners legally, but since he's refunding, it's his choice to do what he wants. If he, instead of having no money and a destroyed cartridge, would rather have a bootleg for his personal collection to play, that's his perogative.

Being an "honest seller" in this case would only necessitate him refunding the cartridge upon realizing it's a bootleg. He's going above and beyond here, and I hope you appreciate that.

mmsadda said:

Dude, for what it's worth, you're being pretty vindictive here. If he's refunding the cartridge, it's his choice whether he lets the chips/boards be destroyed or not. If he refused to refund, I'd say take him to the cleaners legally, but since he's refunding, it's his choice to do what he wants. If he, instead of having no money and a destroyed cartridge, would rather have a bootleg for his personal collection to play, that's his perogative.

Being an "honest seller" in this case would only necessitate him refunding the cartridge upon realizing it's a bootleg. He's going above and beyond here, and I hope you appreciate that.

Click to expand...

I hear what your saying... in my defense
I guess I was keen to destroy as he claims he has never heard of bootlegs and yet has a load of neo geo stuff.
Plus he gave me a bit of flak and his feedback whilst positive does include comments about what I would consider negative feedback eg Wrong stuff shipped etc
He only actually refunded me once I escalated it via paypal

Anyway you do make some good points. Ill think on them should this happen in the future

trebormills said:

Well the issue is persuading an "honest seller".

I will not keep boards.....i will snap them in half and return them with the untouched external case. I may need to re explain that to him. If he doesn't want me to destroy the cart then he wont want me to write on it I am sure. Well I guess no point debating it on here...he either excepts that the cart is bad and should be destroyed or does not. If he does not want it destroyed I am concerned over how honest they are...claims never heard of illegal carts existing.

I wonder if anyone knows paypals position on me demanding a refund before returning cart and/or returning destroyed cart and then making sure thats not used as an excuse to not refund me the money.

Re running into a boot...shit happens...worst case is I return cart and get money back. Paid with credit card via paypal so I know cc will cover my back.

Thanks for the support and info

Click to expand...

bloody hell mate, its a bootleg not a murder.

i wouldnt want the boards broke then retuned to me when offering a refund ,he might just keep it for his self or offer it up in a trade.

dont get me wrong no one wants a boot but breaking it and returning it is a bit ott!

trebormills said:

im popping all my carts...breaks my heart to cut a seal dated 1996 etc...but these guys can get hold of labels and stick em on just as easy as anyone else.

Click to expand...

You don't have to do that. You can look through the vents. With enough light, you'll be able to see at least one chip with the proper markings. The seal is also further proof that it's legit. Breaks my heart to see people getting paranoid about all their legit carts after getting a bootleg.

It's normal for a seller to want the bootleg back unharmed. Never heard of anyone sending back a destroyed cart.

bcfczulu said:

bloody hell mate, its a bootleg not a murder.

i wouldn't want the boards broke then returned to me when offering a refund ,he might just keep it for his self or offer it up in a trade.

don't get me wrong no one wants a boot but breaking it and returning it is a bit ott!

Click to expand...

I am hearing what people are saying and I understand that point of view. Its just not a view I share in this particular case. If I had been sold a "working but bootleg cart" thats different...however I would try and avoid said carts.

BTW I don't view the 108 in 1 cart as being the same thing..it does not hide itself as a genuine cart it is what it is. It is obvious to all that its a rip off and no one will confuse it as genuine. Nor do I have a problem with mame roms...again they are what they are...obvious and therefore not malicious. Now if the games were still in production thats different but we are talking about a basically dead system.

Bootlegs however are insidious things that pretend to be real but are not.

I guess I got hot under the collar as I bought what i thought was a legit cart and got a blatant bootleg. When i asked the seller re it I got a reply along the line of ..."never heard of bootlegs, what are you trying to pull!" In fact I only got a refund when i escalated the claim. An unhappy story for both me and the seller for sure.

I got annoyed and maybe i overreacted, maybe i did not. If the seller is honest then yes Ive been harsh...but then an honest seller would want the cart destroyed. After all they have or are selling all of their neo geo stuff off...so why would they want a bootleg in the collection?? They don't even own the kit anymore

At the end of the day if seller had insisted I return cart and issued a full refund ..then thats that...I would not destroy the cart in a malicious manner. i would just have to suck it up and be unhappy that i have left some crappy bootleg floating around

Anyway thanks for the feedback and support...also the thoughts are something to think about in future



PS
I can see this becoming a drama thread so ill try to stop answering it as after all you either think I am a police man vs pirates or a OTT arse :-)

All the best to all and thanks once more for your input...case closed...moving on