Retro Gamer magazine's terrible Metal Slug feature --reviewed!

[aria]

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Want to see a so-called "professional video game writer" lose all decorum when someone criticizes his poorly written article? Want to watch the editor of an English video game magazine inadvertently get caught in a web of lies? Want to see why a number of people here stopped reading Retro Gamer? Look no further.

There's a lot of side drama, so here are some summary posts of the main problems with the writer (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2725078&postcount=1063) and his editor (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2729612&postcount=1196), along with Rot's wildcard, magnificent grand finale (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2724871&postcount=1032).]

Retro Gamer (issue 62) did one of their "The Definitive" series articles (covering various games in a major game series) for the Metal Slug franchise. While I am a fan of the magazine, the resulting article was terrible... insulting even. Not just to fans of the series, but to casual gamers in general. It appears they used a freelancer, Stuart Campbell (as he's listed as a "contributor" in the masthead); and, assuming that's the case, it shows how the practice can sometimes backfire. If I didn't know any better, it appears it was rushed for a paycheck and/or deadline. You'd think this worldwide economic downturn would cause people to work harder for their bucks...

Okay --since I was so annoyed, I decided to write out, point-by-point, why the article is a mess --a truly geekish reaction on my part, I realize, but sometimes it takes serious provocation to unearth these latent tendencies. The piece doubly irks me because I used to write columns and feature pieces for various papers in my spare time in college and afterward (made some dough, not a ton --but it was better than nothing for what amounted to a hobby), so I get frustrated when I see purported professionals turning out this crap.

For those unfamiliar with Retro Gamer: its a magazine that focuses on classic games and related current and homebrew releases. The article was formatted like most "The Definitive" pieces in RG: it has a brief section introducing the series (very brief in this case), then a game-by-game description of each installment. The author presumably plays as many of the versions as he can get a hold of, or talks about the general consensus on the game if he/she can't find a copy. Its a simple format, and any writer worth their ink can probably turn out a quality article with little worry... or so I assumed. Let's take a look at this one:


The author doesn't actually know the storyline of the series he's writing a feature on: he ends his own introductory section with "So join The Definitive one more time as we strap on an ammo belt, wade into the fray, and see if we can't get to the bottom of who that pesky Liquid Ocelot really is once and for all." Okay... any guesses what's wrong here? Thankfully RG put in an editorial note that he mistakenly mentioned a character from Metal Gear...but even that begs a question of why didn't they have him do a rewrite (answer: someone was probably shitting something out at the last second for a deadline).

The write up on the original Metal Slug is dominated by completely baseless suggestion that Metal Slug was aimed for release on the Neo CD. It appears his reason was he was only able to get access to the CD version; now, while the home cart is infamously expensive --something he didn't mention-- why couldn't he grab an MVS? But back to the write up on Metal Slug: there's virtually no time spent on what made the game so interesting at the time other than the two sentence description in the introductory section (and oddly not one mention of Contra until very late in the article, but I assume this guy is pretty young since he refers to the SNES). Instead he talks entirely about what extra features were on the Neo CD "port". While that's nice, it seems you should spend at least a paragraph on the first game talking about what made it successful. Alas, no.

Let's toss out another sign of poor research: not one mention of Nazca, the original developer. Ouch.

The PlayStation port of Metal Slug gets its own section, mostly to discuss the addition of mini-games. Its fascinating that so much ink is spent on the additional features in the various CD versions of Metal Slug without spending much time on the actual gameplay of the original; someone made a false assumption that readers all know what Metal Slug is about --a.k.a. poor journalism.

We get a weird passing mention of the Saturn version under the PlayStation version of MS1, but they never acknowledge its existence in any of the actual sections (where they parenthetically reference the releases). I don't know whose fault this is, writer, layout people or editor (well, it would fall on the last guy since he's the one in charge of QA).

Metal Slug 2's section kicks off starts off with the following description: "Despite beign little more than a new set of levels for the first game (albeit six this time rather than five), and introducing two features that would go on to almost ruin the entire series, Metal Slug 2 is still pretty good fun." This begs the question: what are these two features that nearly "ruin the entire series"? If you poll people who're familiar with the game, you'll likely get "slowdown" as a popular answer, as this game was full of it. Not in this case. Mr. Campbell felt "the debut of zombies and fat mode [. . .] slowed it to a horrible grinding crawl." I admit it took me a few seconds to realize he was referring to the mummy mode when he referred to "zombies" (a forgivable error), but I must admit this is the first time I've heard anyone actually hold the two modes (particularly the mummy issue in Stage 2) as something so horrific. I'm sure most of you actual gamers have learned that a competent player can quickly get through Stage 2 without ever turning into a mummy, and his complaints seem to imply that he kept trying to finish these games --rushing through-- without trying to learn any technique, hidden secrets, etc. and kept getting hosed by the mummy/fat traps... the sort of thing that happens when you see first-timers or kids play the game (or people trying to rush an article on a series they're actually not all that familiar with). Again, there's not one mention of the slowdown.

Because he somehow didn't notice the slowdown in 2, he doesn't mention the faster gameplay in Metal Slug X. He acknowledges that its popular among "aficionados", but doesn't actually take any time to reveal why. Instead he summarizes the game as "churned out quickly to squeeze more money out of gullible fans". He states this game was more loved by home players, then proceeds to spend two-thirds of the section about all the additions on the PS1 port --implying that's the reason its so popular. His research is so half-assed that he states "Interestingly, Metal Slug X didn't get a Neo-Geo CD release" ...okay, for someone who spent a big chunk of the earlier section on MS1 talking about the reasons for the CD's creation, he apparently didn't connect the dots that it wasn't being as actively supported by 1999. There's also no mention of the odd inclusion of inaccessible, half-finished underwater levels and other stuff in the coding of the cartridges, but that would be something a person who did, actual research would've discovered --not someone who neglected to mention Nazca.

The author does not hide the fact that he hates Metal Slug 3, which is popularly considered one of, if not the finest in the series. He opens this section with "As any keen student of philosophy knows, there's supposedly an ancient Chinese proverb that runs: "Most people are fat-headed cretins without enough brains for even one good sandwich", and it's never better illustrated than when people say Metal Slug 3 is as good as the series got. Metal Slug 3 isn't even as good as the Black Death got." I'm not going to start on the awkward structure of the first sentence, but I do wonder how on earth this kind of statement appears in a "Definitive" retrospective on a video game series. The Editor jumps in with his second note of the article, that he loved the game. He's obviously not alone. Why does he hate it? Its hard. (Boo-hoo, now man up.) He seems crushed that the first level boss was "one of the most epically hateful first level bosses in recorded history." Okay, I'm by no means an expert at any of these games, but I will say it took me only one time facing that boss to figure out how to simply beat him without losing a life (run and shoot backwards... revolutionary, I know.). The best answer I can come up with is Mr. Campbell like his games easy (obvious jokes resisted here...). We have people on this site that can 1CC the game, so its certainly not impossible, but I will concede that the game is very tough. And while its fair to acknowledge that there are people who feel the tone and/or difficulty made it not as good as the others, this section epitomizes how unpolished the article is.

His opinion linger into the section on Metal Slug 4, where he states --in what was starting to come close to a polemic-- "it was slightly less bitterly unfair than MS3, as well as being shorter. (And smaller generally, with less branching and therefore less replay value, which would normally be a bad thing but isn't when you're using something as horrible as Metal Slug 3 for your design foundation.)" He theorizes that MS4 was the most criticized in the series because "when players buy something that got good reviews but turns out to be a bad game, they take their frustrations out on the next one in the series - but we don't really have the room to go into it." Oh yeah, sure, that must be why the game was inferior --I'm so happy he spent space in the brief section to outline his personal theories rather than spend time focusing on how the state of SNK/Playmore caused the rush job. He then laments the lack of extras in the ports, since those are likely the only versions he was playing.

Metal Slug 5 gets a half-paragraph, stating that it was better and pointedly celebrating that "most importantly of all it's completely zombie free! Yay!" At this point in the article I felt like I was reading a fan review in GameFAQs --though I assume he wasn't using ROMs on his PC.

Just to wrap up his opinions on the main series: Metal Slug 6 is a "wholly wretched experience" because its difficult. I haven't had much experience with it, so I'll let you be the judge. Metal Slug 7 is the "finest game in the history of the series" He goes on to declare: "After a decade of disappointments, it's almost as much of a breath of fresh air the first game was all those years ago."

Back to a more general comment: The author didn't even know what to call himself, he actually refers to himself as a "reporter" a few times, which is not the role he was fulfilling in writing a feature piece on a video game series --he was closer to a journalist, of which reporters are a subset, but even then he shows complete bias in his style which negates a fundamental point of journalism. While its tempting to throw out the words "amateur" or "hack", I'd settle with "someone who was too busy to do a good job, and instead did a rush job and assumed no one would notice".

I know the Editors of Retro Gamer sometimes read this site, and they've been very nice to us --even apologetic for that rather one-sided fiasco in the Last Hope article and the (now former) "journalist" who came here looking for only one opinion (his). They've mentioned this site more than once, and profiled the owner, so lets be clear that this isn't meant to target the magazine which I, by-and-large, enjoy. However, when I read something so unpolished, so rushed, so incompletely researched --titled "The Definitive", no less-- its insulting to fans of this series and this system. Only recently have "game journalists" started to get any serious cred in journalism, but then something like comes along and makes the rest look bad. Since this mag costs $12 in the States, if you're thinking about buying this issue for the feature, I'd say give it a pass.

So yeah, /review.

[xiao_haozi]

Nice writeup Bobak.

Have you considered sending it to them?

[Nesagwa]

From the little Ive seen of the magazine, it seems their editorial staff is a joke.

Missing chunks of Shawns interview, completely wrong photos for the collection story a month ago, this garbage.

Very unprofessional and embarrassing.

[SML]

Great post. And here I thought you only played Magical Drop.

[Twinkle Star]

Nice inputs there!! I think next time they should make thier articles more well researched in order to avoid these inconsistencies..

[Metal Slugnuts]

Damn, that is some piss-poor researching. :oh_no:

[aria]

Nice writeup Bobak.

Have you considered sending it to them?

I debated about it, so I went ahead and posted a copy, along with introductory remarks, at their feedback subforum (which they're very good about reading). The weird thing is the US is around 2 issues behind Europe, so even though I picked up the issue today, they're already preping for Issue 64 :loco:

Thus there's over a week from the previous post to my bump...

http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14236&p=332444#p332444

[insaneben]

Yowza.
Thanks for saving me some dough, Bobak. You really took that article to the mat, applied a half-nelson, followed by a suplex, and then a body slam out of the ring.

I'm not sure if you have the issues, Bobak, but I was wondering what you thought of the writing quality of the one that covered KOF and the three-part "History of SNK" issues. Comparing that to the "Metal Slug" travesty, is it any better? (Stupid question, but it's probably better I get an answer from someone with serious editorial cred.)

[aria]

I'm not sure if you have the issues, Bobak, but I was wondering what you thought of the writing quality of the one that covered KOF and the three-part "History of SNK" issues. Comparing that to the "Metal Slug" travesty, is it any better? (Stupid question, but it's probably better I get an answer from someone with serious editorial cred.)

I like the mag, so --yeah-- I felt the other articles were better. They're not always complex dissection of the industry, and they occasionally make minor mistakes and omissions, but the other articles were certainly as enjoyable as you'd expect in a gaming mag.

In fact, this very same issue (as the Metal Slug article) has an intriguing article/interview with Tomohiro Nishikado, creator of Space Invaders. Its mostly because I enjoy the mag that this one piece threw me over the top. This Slug article feels like they author got it in to the editors so late that they had a choice to ask for a rewrite (and possibly delay it) or run with it, and they went with the latter. If they did that, I can somewhat understand in that the magazine industry is tough and they're already a niche mag with finances that probably aren't big enough to survive a smaller issue with less adverts.

[djdelly]

snip

Cliffsnotes version please:eek_2:

[Geddon_jt]

I like the mag, so --yeah-- I felt the other articles were better. They're not always complex dissection of the industry, and they occasionally make minor mistakes and omissions, but the other articles were certainly as enjoyable as you'd expect in a gaming mag.

In fact, this very same issue (as the Metal Slug article) has an intriguing article/interview with Tomohiro Nishikado, creator of Space Invaders. Its mostly because I enjoy the mag that this one piece threw me over the top. This Slug article feels like they author got it in to the editors so late that they had a choice to ask for a rewrite (and possibly delay it) or run with it, and they went with the latter. If they did that, I can somewhat understand in that the magazine industry is tough and they're already a niche mag with finances that probably aren't big enough to survive a smaller issue with less adverts.

Word, Bobak.
You echoed my sentiments exactly. The Metal Slug feature felt terribly rushed and felt generally very out of place for the magazine. I really got the distinct impression he missed the point entirely.

[Praise the Lard]

I was going to post this up a week back and even went through the effort of transcribing the MS3/MS4 summaries (since this is where the real tragedy is, everything else is nitpicking) but decided against it. :\ It seems like bait almost. Though it's surprising that it was actually printed (editor asleep at the wheel?), he's entitled to his opinions. For every downside of the article there is an upside. For instance detailing the extras on the ports of Metal Slug 1/2/X/3 is certainly going the extra mile.

The author, Stuart Campbell, is obviously a bit of an egomaniac though. Check his web site (http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/), not surprisingly titled "World of Stuart", for a short glimpse into his review of Metal Slug 7 (http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/previews/slugreview/ms7.htm) which gives us the classic line "Metal Slug 7 is, rather startlingly, the best Metal Slug ever". :lolz:

Maybe, just MAYBE, Stuart Campbell is playing us all for the fool. Maybe he wants unsuspecting new comers to be exposed to Metal Slug 7 first knowing full well that it can only get better for them as they play the other entries in the series.

I WONDER.

[SML]

his review of Metal Slug 7 (http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/previews/slugreview/ms7.htm) .

RAGE.

[Deuce]

Cliffsnotes version please:eek_2:

Develop an attention span greater than that of a gnat, please. :eek_2:

[astrodan88]

Thanks for the rundown Bobak! This sounds horrific. I thought I recognized the name Stewart Campbell but Lard connected the dots for me. This guy is so hopped up on himself it's scary. I stumbled across his site once looking for reviews. What he lacks in knowledge he makes up for in hyperbole.

Retrogamer should be embarrassed. It's great that they wanted to do this article but to put so little time into finding a competent writer and getting it to press is beyond disappointing. It's clear that Stewie has only played some of these games once through, and that's probably on the weekend before deadline. I shudder to think he got paid for it.

[djdelly]

Develop an at.......
:spock:

[SML]

Develop an attention span greater than that of a gnat, please. :eek_2:

Gnats can't read, silly.

[RevStu]

Hello idiots!



The author doesn't actually know the storyline of the series he's writing a feature on: he ends his own introductory section with "So join The Definitive one more time as we strap on an ammo belt, wade into the fray, and see if we can't get to the bottom of who that pesky Liquid Ocelot really is once and for all." Okay... any guesses what's wrong here? Thankfully RG put in an editorial note that he mistakenly mentioned a character from Metal Gear...but even that begs a question of why didn't they have him do a rewrite (answer: someone was probably shitting something out at the last second for a deadline).

Or, if you'd done YOUR research properly, you'd know that that's a running joke that appears in lots of the Definitive features - the "comment from the editor" is in fact written by me. Even if you were reading RG for the first time and didn't know about its running jokes, though, you'd have to be epically stupid to think that the magazine would correct the "mistake" in such a way, rather than just change the text. (Or that they'd hire someone who didn't know the difference between Metal Slug and Metal Gear Solid in the first place.) I mean, Jesus, seriously? You're THAT dim? How do you get out of bed in the morning without locking yourself in the wardrobe?


The write up on the original Metal Slug is dominated by completely baseless suggestion that Metal Slug was aimed for release on the Neo CD.

Where have you dreamed up this fantasy from? Where does the feature say anything like that? If English isn't your first language then it's understandable you might misinterpret some things, but if that's the case then you should probably shut up rather than bitterly attack people over things YOU'VE misunderstood. If English IS your first language, then God knows how you've arrived at such a bizarre conclusion. The feature at NO POINT suggests any such thing.


But back to the write up on Metal Slug: there's virtually no time spent on what made the game so interesting at the time other than the two sentence description in the introductory section (and oddly not one mention of Contra until very late in the article, but I assume this guy is pretty young since he refers to the SNES).

Actually I'm 41, I've been writing professionally about videogames for 20 years, and I've very likely been playing videogames since before you were born, son. The Definitive series isn't intended to be about what influenced Game X, it's about the ludography of Game X.


While that's nice, it seems you should spend at least a paragraph on the first game talking about what made it successful. Alas, no.

Er, the intro page does exactly that. Did you bother to read it at all? Let me quote it back to you.


"Your reporter and his videogame-journalist colleague did a double-take of proper disbelief at the unmarked, unassuming generic cabinet – was this //really// an old-school SNES-style 2D platform shooter? – and dropped a few coins in the slot.

An hour later we were still there, a few quid lighter in the pocket but still marvelling at the sheer character and fun of what we were playing, at a time when almost all arcade games had become incredibly po-faced and serious, increasingly concerned with “realism” over the instant-fun hit that had been traditionally the preserve of the coin-op. (The only other 2D games that had survived the industry’s excited fascination with the possibilities of polygonal 3D were fighting games - extremely serious in their own way, and jealously colonised by obsessives.) Compared to anything else that was in arcades in 1996, Metal Slug was like Robotron – an exhilarating non-stop bloodbath with beautiful pixel art and a sense of humour. (More accurately, it was the arcade equivalent of Treasure’s 1993 Megadrive masterpiece Gunstar Heroes.)

It turned out that we weren’t the only people craving some trad-style gameplay values, and Metal Slug went on to be a huge and unexpected hit, gobbling money faster than SNK could hire trucks to carry it all off in."

A bit more than a paragraph, in fact, clearly detailing the reasons for Metal Slug being a hit.


Let's toss out another sign of poor research: not one mention of Nazca, the original developer. Ouch.

That's not poor research, that's not bothering to waste words telling people things they already know (and which aren't relevant to the feature's purpose in any case). Nazca's name appears on the title screen, for God's sake. Anyone who can read knows who made it.


The PlayStation port of Metal Slug gets its own section, mostly to discuss the addition of mini-games. Its fascinating that so much ink is spent on the additional features in the various CD versions of Metal Slug without spending much time on the actual gameplay of the original; someone made a false assumption that readers all know what Metal Slug is about --a.k.a. poor journalism.

And on and on it goes. You evidently don't know what The Definitive is about, yet feel able to launch into outraged and offensive criticism and personal abuse anyway. The purpose of the series is to tell people about every game in a particular videogame franchise, including obscure ones they might not know about, and tell them about interesting variations in ports and the like. It is NOT supposed to be the complete history of Metal Slug, discussing the development of the game, its influences, its plotline or what its coders had for breakfast the day they started it. RG has a completely different feature-thread for that, called The Complete History Of. Clear?


We get a weird passing mention of the Saturn version under the PlayStation version of MS1, but they never acknowledge its existence in any of the actual sections

What on Earth are you dribbling about, tiresome child? The mention acknowledges the existence. There is nothing unusual or interesting in gameplay terms about the Saturn version, so it doesn't get any specific coverage.


Again, there's not one mention of the slowdown.

Because nobody except dull obsessive nerds gives a rat's arse about it. Most people don't even notice, and expect games of that era to slow down at busy points anyway.


He states this game was more loved by home players, then proceeds to spend two-thirds of the section about all the additions on the PS1 port --implying that's the reason its so popular.

I didn't imply any such thing. I mention the additions on the PS port because - much as I hate to repeat myself - that's the purpose of the Definitive features. The Definitive is concerned with how the PS1 version differs from the original. If it doesn't differ, it doesn't get an entry. If it has substantial changes, omissions or additions, it does. Are you getting it yet?


...okay, for someone who spent a big chunk of the earlier section on MS1 talking about the reasons for the CD's creation, he apparently didn't connect the dots that it wasn't being as actively supported by 1999. There's also no mention of the odd inclusion of inaccessible, half-finished underwater levels and other stuff in the coding of the cartridges, but that would be something a person who did, actual research would've discovered --not someone who neglected to mention Nazca.

I'm perfectly well aware of those things, but since people can't play them there's very little point in mentioning them. It seems your main gripe is that the feature wasn't 16 pages long, which it would have had to be to include all the stuff you're dribbling on about, none of which is very interesting and which most people already know anyway.


Okay, I'm by no means an expert at any of these games, but I will say it took me only one time facing that boss to figure out how to simply beat him without losing a life (run and shoot backwards... revolutionary, I know.)

I didn't say the first boss was hard, I said it was hateful. It's tedious and repetitive and unenjoyable. Please have the courtesy to restrict your criticism to things I actually said, rather than things you've totally imagined.


Back to a more general comment: The author didn't even know what to call himself, he actually refers to himself as a "reporter" a few times, which is not the role he was fulfilling in writing a feature piece on a video game series --he was closer to a journalist, of which reporters are a subset, but even then he shows complete bias in his style which negates a fundamental point of journalism.

Ha ha ha. Do please share with us your authoritative source for these "definitions". Let me help you out with the first definition of "reporter" from Encarta:

"somebody whose job is to find out facts and use the print or broadcast media to tell people about them"

...which is precisely what the feature does. The same source lists "journalist" as:

"a writer or editor for a newspaper or magazine or for television or radio"

..which is of course also entirely accurate.


While its tempting to throw out the words "amateur" or "hack", I'd settle with "someone who was too busy to do a good job, and instead did a rush job and assumed no one would notice".

My sang-froid has to take a momentary back seat here, as I have to suggest that you go fuck yourself, you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick. The Definitive Metal Slug took over a week of non-stop work, including playing every game through to the end several times, and the feature was very well-received by readers of the magazine. It fulfils its commissioned brief completely, and the fact that you might personally have wanted an entirely different type of feature about Metal Slug is really neither here nor there. Your unwarranted insults, ignorance of the basic facts and gratuitous stupidity certainly don't make me wish I'd done anything different.

Love and kisses,
Stu.

[Ancient Flounder]

Too fucking long

lol You have gay hair.

I eagerly await the on-coming shit-storm that will result in either:

A) lulz
B) You being torn apart verbally
C) You making a bigger twat out of yourself
D) All of the above

I've been waiting a long time to say this and have it mean something, but here goes....

Welcome to Neo-Geo.com, motherfucker.

/in before War Room

[GunstarHero]

Damn, and I have to leave for work!

[RevStu]

Let me save some time and summarise everything that will appear below this post:


"We like Metal Slug 3 and you don't, wah wah wah wah wah wah wah."

[Professor Denim]

Let me save some time and summarise everything that will appear below this post:

it has nothing to do with Metal Slug 3 you stupid fuck.
it has to do with the total disrespect you treated the series,its developers (ever heard of Nazca?) and its fans. the fans can live with it becouse they know the games, but a newcomer will be fooled by your words,arrogance and lack of knowledge.
i love Retrogamer.i hate you.

[Mike Bevan]

it has nothing to do with Metal Slug 3 you stupid fuck.
it has to do with the total disrespect you treated the series,its developers (ever heard of Nazca?) and its fans. the fans can live with it becouse they know the games, but a newcomer will be fooled by your words,arrogance and lack of knowledge.
i love Retrogamer.i hate you.

What are you... like 12 years old? Actually, don't bother answering that.

I'm a big fan of the MS series and I didn't find the article disrespectul in the slightest. It may be a 'controversial' opinion on Metal Slug 3 among Neo-Geo fans, but to be honest it's one I happen to share. I bought all the MVS carts for the series... until 3 came at which, after playing it for a while in the arcade, baulked at shelling out $250 for such a drawn-out game stuffed to the gills with tedious, neverending boss-fights (can anyone honestly say they enjoy the laser spitting Dragon boss?) and a desperate coin-grabbing mentality (witness the inexplicable pauses to fling hundreds of kamikazee soldiers or aliens at you, far more hair-tearingly annoying and pointless than any other game in the series). Conversely I think the first game in the series is still pretty much nigh-on perfect in its quickfire mission completion times and difficulty curve. And if you think the piece is neglectful due to leaving out a few obvious facts that are plainly visible in the screenshots on the pages you must be having a laugh...

The Definitives have always been comprehensive factual breakdowns of a multi-platform game series, with a smattering of entertaining opinion, humour and personal commentary from their author. Nothing's changed in this one that's any different from any of the others. Deal with it.

[Professor Denim]

I'm a big fan of the MS series and I didn't find the article disrespectul in the slightest. It may be a 'controversial' opinion on Metal Slug 3 among Neo-Geo fans, but to be honest it's one I happen to share. I bought all the MVS carts for the series... until 3 came at which, after playing it for a while in the arcade, baulked at shelling out $250 for such a drawn-out game stuffed to the gills with tedious, neverending boss-fights (can anyone honestly say they enjoy the laser spitting Dragon boss?) and a desperate coin-grabbing mentality (witness the inexplicable pauses to fling hundreds of kamikazee soldiers or aliens at you, far more hair-tearingly annoying and pointless than any other game in the series). Conversely I think the first game in the series is still pretty much nigh-on perfect in it's quickfire mission completion times and difficulty curve. And if you think the piece is neglectful due to leaving out a few obvious facts that are plainly visible in the screenshots on the pages you must be having a laugh...


your comments on Slug 3 shows how poorly you know the game.But AGAIN the problem with your article has nothing to do with your taste for Metal Slug 3,its worse than that.
you should be proud for achieving the worst moment on Retrogamer´s life.

[kernow]

People still read printed magazines? awesome.

[Professor Denim]

now i know...why he didnt mention Nazca.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_Corporation

[Mike Bevan]

your comments on Slug 3 shows how poorly you know the game.But AGAIN the problem with your article has nothing to do with your taste for Metal Slug 3,its worse than that.
you should be proud for achieving the worst moment on Retrogamer´s life.

Er... hello? Earth calling Neo-Geo.com?
It's not my article, you donut...

[RevStu]

People still read printed magazines? awesome.
They pay real actual money for them and everything. Wonder why that is, and why nobody wants to pay money to hear what 'Professor Denim' has to say?

It's a mystery, to be sure.

[Professor Denim]

Er... hello? Earth calling Neo-Geo.com?
It's not my article, you donut...

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLooooooooooLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!! :lolz:

you sound the same

[Mike Bevan]

Cheers matey. I'll take that as a compliment.

[strider]

Hi everyone, occasional Neo-Geo.com poster and Retro Gamer editor Darran Jones here.

It would appear that the idea of the definitive has been missed somewhat, which is a shame as it's been running since issue 24.

Anyway, the point of the definitive is to cover every different game in the series. It's not a historical piece (that's what our complete history guides are for) it's designed to explain all the different games in a series (even if they share the same name, or are the same game) and how they differ from each other.

It's also an opinion piece. Stuart Campbell is one of the UK's best known videogame journalists and his work is always of a very high standard. He's also (as every games magazine reader in the UK knows) is very opinionated and he likes to put his opinions across to everyone. This is the reason why he is the only person in the magazine (myself included) who is allowed to use the first person when writing features.

Now for the record I love Metal Slug 3. I think it's the best game in the series for numerous reasons I could go into, but won't, and laughed my head off when I read Stuart's opinion because he couldn't have been more wrong about the game (in my opinion).

However.
He states throughout the article what he feels makes for a good Metal Slug game and he states again why he feels that Metal Slug 3 is the worst game. Taking this on board (whether you agree with it or not) by the time you get to Metal Slug and he's mentioning all the stuff in it which he's already described in previous game, you know he's going to love it. Is he right? Of course not (in my opinion of course).

Maybe it's a UK thing (and I don't mean to be patronising here) but Stuart's sarky style and the whole basis of what the definitive is, appears to have been lost in this particular instance. I once toyed with putting the standard (RG doesn't agree with everything STU says) at the end of each article, but assumed that readers would know that this is one individual talking and is not the collective thoughts of the magazine. Maybe we need to address this.

Now if this was a complete history of MS then some of your points could well be justified, but it isn't. Stuart is meticulous in his research and I trust him 110% with whatever he writes. He's been writing these articles now for a very long time, and no one has ever been able to recall a game he's missed or pointed out something that's factually incorrect about what he's missing.

If I didn't think his article was up to scratch then I wouldn't include it in the magazine. It's that simple.

You're getting Stuart's opinions and thoughts about the series confused with him actually stating them as facts, which he isn't.

If you can't point out things that are factually incorrect then great, you've got a solid argument, but at this moment in time in does very much come across like "this article is rubbish because it doesn't agree with what are generally accepted opinions" which is totally different. On the other hand, you're obviously entitled to your opinion and it's good to know that there are gamers out there who still have a hell of a lot of passion for their favourite games.

Peace Out. I'm off to play Metal Gear Ocelot.

[kernow]

Peace Out. I'm off to play Metal Gear Ocelot.

:scratch:

[Abasuto]

. Stuart Campbell is one of the UK's best known videogame journalists and his work is always of a very high standard. He's also (as every games magazine reader in the UK knows) is very opinionated and he likes to put his opinions across to everyone.

Looking at his post, he's also got a real charming attitude.

[strider]

I can only apologise for any bad language he has used.

[Deuce]

You know, people are allowed to dislike a popular game, and what's more, to write about it.

How many of you hate Final Fantasy 7? Or the Tekken series? Or Street Fighter, for that matter?

It's their magazine. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple. Welcome to capitalism.

[RevStu]

Looking at his post, he's also got a real charming attitude.
It's weird how people shouting about how incompetent and stupid you are doesn't make you feel particularly inclined to be nice to them, especially when everything they're saying is so cretinously wrong.

[Abasuto]

I can only apologise for any bad language he has used.

You shouldn't need to.

He does seem to fly off the handle easy though. Instead of calmly explaining his defense of his article, he flies off into a full tyrade from post 1. Then continues talking down to anyone who comes in his path. Regardless of his video games knowledge, the guy has an ego driven temper.

Come to think of it, he reminds me of myself. :annoyed:

[RevStu]

He does seem to fly off the handle easy though. Instead of calmly explaining his defense of his article, he flies off into a full tyrade from post 1.

Yeah, you're right. I was the one who started being rude and angry here.


You'd think this worldwide economic downturn would cause people to work harder for their bucks...
the article is a mess
purported professionals turning out this crap
someone was probably shitting something out at the last second for a deadline
another sign of poor research
poor journalism
Boo-hoo, now man up
this section epitomizes how unpolished the article is
While its tempting to throw out the words "amateur" or "hack", I'd settle with "someone who was too busy to do a good job, and instead did a rush job and assumed no one would notice"
something so unpolished, so rushed, so incompletely researched

[Nesagwa]

Yeah, you're right. I was the one who started being rude and angry here.

Professionals can take negative criticism.

[Abasuto]

Professionals can take negative criticism.

What about a professional hitman ?

[RevStu]

Professionals can take negative criticism.

Indeed. But that wasn't negative criticism. That was plain abuse, empirically factually wrong from start to finish and extremely personally insulting. Anyone who posts reasonable and fair criticism will get a reasonable and fair response. Anyone who says I'm a lazy incompetent shitting out badly-researched crap in a hurry for a deadline will get told to go and fuck themselves with a broken bottle. It's a pretty simple flowchart.

[OMFG]

Hello idiots!

Professional..


If English IS your first language, then God knows how you've arrived at such a bizarre conclusion. The feature at NO POINT suggests any such thing.

Again..professional.



Actually I'm 41, I've been writing professionally about videogames for 20 years, and I've very likely been playing videogames since before you were born, son. The Definitive series isn't intended to be about what influenced Game X, it's about the ludography of Game X.

There we go with that term again.


What on Earth are you dribbling about, tiresome child?
Coming from a 41 year old professional journalist...


Because nobody except dull obsessive nerds gives a rat's arse about it. Most people don't even notice, and expect games of that era to slow down at busy points anyway.

Wow! Now you're generalizing the magazine's readers.


Ha ha ha. Do please share with us your authoritative source for these "definitions". Let me help you out with the first definition of "reporter" from Encarta:

"somebody whose job is to find out facts and use the print or broadcast media to tell people about them"

...which is precisely what the feature does. The same source lists "journalist" as:

"a writer or editor for a newspaper or magazine or for television or radio"

..which is of course also entirely accurate.

You mean editorial.




My sang-froid has to take a momentary back seat here, as I have to suggest that you go fuck yourself, you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick.

I'm happy that you've entitled yourself to state your opinion on our board. While the OP stated his opinion in what he didn't like about your "editorial" you came here to pretty much blast (not explain) your reasons for posting that piece. Instead of coming over here and explaining "like a professional" you decided to come here and tell customers of the magazine that your ego is much more important than anything else. Thank you for clearing that up.


Darren Jones shouldn't have had to come here to apollogize for you.

[Nesagwa]

Indeed. But that wasn't negative criticism. That was plain abuse, empirically factually wrong from start to finish and extremely personally insulting. Anyone who posts reasonable and fair criticism will get a reasonable and fair response. Anyone who says I'm a lazy incompetent shitting out badly-researched crap in a hurry for a deadline will get told to go and fuck themselves with a broken bottle. It's a pretty simple flowchart.

Proving my point here, guy.

[RevStu]

Professional..

Again..professional.

There we go with that term again.

Coming from a 41 year old professional journalist...

Wow! Now you're generalizing the magazine's readers.


None of the magazine's other readers said anything even remotely close to as ignorant, offensive or wrong as the OP, so they didn't get insulted back. Maybe Americans are just stupid.

I'd love to know where you get the bizarre, absurd idea that professionals aren't allowed to be rude. I can only presume you've never watched, to pluck just one example, the judges on American Idol/Pop Idol/The X-Factor/Strictly Come Dancing or almost any other "talent" show.

I'll say it again, because you seem to be a bit slow on the uptake:

Reasoned, well-argued negative criticism will get a polite and considered response. Pure abuse full of offensive language (do I take it you're fine with the OP's lines about "shitting out crap"?) and idiotically-wrong drivel will get told to fuck off, because that's all it deserves.

[RevStu]

Oh, and by the way:


You mean editorial.

Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.

[Nesagwa]

Does the word "snarky" mean the same thing as "complete douche bag" in England now?

[Late]

A 41-yo man raging on a forum which probably holds only a fraction of Retro gamers readership to begin with hahaha.

British Chimpio?

[OMFG]

None of the magazine's other readers said anything even remotely close to as ignorant, offensive or wrong as the OP, so they didn't get insulted back. Maybe Americans are just stupid.

Keep it up cupcake.


I'd love to know where you get the bizarre, absurd idea that professionals aren't allowed to be rude. I can only presume you've never watched, to pluck just one example, the judges on American Idol/Pop Idol/The X-Factor/Strictly Come Dancing or almost any other "talent" show.

You placed yourself in the category of judges with the power to sway a person's career/lifestyle future. You on the other hand wrote an editorial and a reader responded to it on this board. We're not the ones in the hot seat nor are we bound to read your your articles. I'm assuming that you took this job to make some money and to say what's on your mind. But do you realize what kind of effect you have on people that pay to read something you printed? Be rude all you want. But it seems that we know your stance on this matter.




Reasoned, well-argued negative criticism will get a polite and considered response. Pure abuse full of offensive language (do I take it you're fine with the OP's lines about "shitting out crap"?) and idiotically-wrong drivel will get told to fuck off, because that's all it deserves.

Hey, it's your dime. If you want to tell a reader to "fuck off" is your agenda.

Edit:


Oh, and by the way:



Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.

You're entitled to your opinion Stuart. Calling me names on this board won't affect me one bit, but I do appreciate the sentiment.

[MeTaLCzAr]

Damn, that is some piss-poor researching. :oh_no:

askjeeves.com isn't always the most reputable of researching devices.

[RevStu]

But it seems that we know your stance on this matter.

Indeed you do. My stance is, if you're a rude ignorant cunt you can go and fuck yourself. I apologise if that wasn't clear before.

I'm done here, as I can feel my IQ falling just by being near you.


PS:


You on the other hand wrote an editorial

I can't write an "editorial", since I'm not a member of staff. You guys really aren't great with this whole "meaning of words" thing, are you?

[lithy]

Indeed you do. My stance is, if you're a rude ignorant cunt you can go and fuck yourself. I apologise if that wasn't clear before.

I'm done here, as I can feel my IQ falling just by being near you.

Yeah, trying to get through everything you posted this morning has made my head hurt as well.

[OMFG]

I can't write an "editorial", since I'm not a member of staff. You guys really aren't great with this whole "meaning of words" thing, are you?

Then I do stand corrected on that. Thank you for the clarification.

[Mike]

Oh, and by the way:



Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.

AWESOME! :eek:

That's one of the best quotes I've ever read on this website and I've been around since it started.

Well done.

[Deuce]

Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.

You know, while I agree fully with your right to write whatever you want, there's really no need for this. If you want to pick nits, then fine... what you wrote wasn't an "editorial," but by all evidence, it's more an opinion piece than a fact-oriented writeup on the history of the series. If that's what you're comfortable with calling "Definitive," then that's your own lookout, but you're really doing little more than showing your ass at this point. An opinion piece cannot be "definitive," as it's not defining anything. Merriam-Webster gives the word to mean, "authoritative and apparently exhaustive." By the sounds of things, the article is neither.

And before you go deriding me for being defensive, I'll just state that I don't even like the Metal Slug series. Fine games for what they are, but just not a genre I find enjoyable.

Contrary to what so many parents tell their kids, there is indeed such a thing as a wrong opinion. The only worthwhile opinion is the carefully-considered one. And unless you spent a rather larger amount of time with each title than is evidenced in the article, then yours definitely does not meet that criteria.

And rather than getting your hackles raised and going on a name-calling spree, it would be more mature (if not more "professional") of you to simply ignore those who are calling you out. If you genuinely felt their opinions were of no importance, then their words wouldn't rile you so.

[RevStu]

And rather than getting your hackles raised and going on a name-calling spree, it would be more mature (if not more "professional") of you to simply ignore those who are calling you out.

Yeah, but less fun.

What you're doing, albeit more politely, is making the same mistake the OP did - speaking out of complete ignorance. I'm certain you haven't read the feature and have no idea whether it's an "opinion piece", or whether it's "exhaustive" or "authoratitive" or anything else, yet you're still throwing your two cents in.

For the record, it's both of those last two things, being primarily factual in content, but with some opinion thrown in to liven it up a bit. I played every single game through to completion several times, spending scores of hours with even miserable chores like MS3 and MS6 to make sure I got my facts right. And not one person has pointed out a single factual error anywhere in the piece, because there isn't one.

So yeah, I'm inclined to be contemptuous and insulting when some ignorant arsehole accuses me - INCREDIBLY rudely and offensively - of "shitting it out in a hurry" because THEY'RE too stupid to know what the Definitive series is about (despite claiming to read the magazine regularly), and then everyone else pats him on the back for it. As far as I'm concerned, that just shows you're all dicks, until proven otherwise.

The opinions aren't what's definitive about The Definitive, the facts are. The opinion is just a little colour on the side. If you've got an issue with any of the facts in the articles, feel free to discuss it. If you're a complete tool who doesn't know what he's talking about, it's generally better to keep your mouth shut, as the OP seems to have belatedly realised.

[Late]

^the gist is, why do you make these articles about neo geo games when you know jack shit about them?

[Duddyroar]

^the gist is, why do you make these articles about neo geo games when you know jack shit about them?

If you knew anything about Stu then you'd realise just how stupid that comment is.

[Sam Madeupname]

Hello sweeties.

I realise that reason and sense on a forum are the pipedreams of the lunatic, but I like to take a little stab at it now and then.

The problem arises when someone's rudeness is more direct, or honest. Stuart's responses have upset or enraged people because he is quite clear about why and with whom he is cross. A direct, "I think you're a fucking shit-gargler" leaves no one confused, and at least one person insulted. And thus people recognise Stuart as a rude man.

However, I would like to contend that his rudeness is a sugar cube of delight in the festering, mouldy mug of tea that introduced this thread. The original poster wrote something that went beyond rudeness. It was libellous, offensive, and wholly inaccurate. As the editor of the magazine has since stated, and as those who are aware of Campbell's reputation will know, his writing is meticulous, the result of immense amounts of work. To call him lazy, incapable, immature, poor at research, sub-par, or any of the other slurs offered by the opening buffoon are not only without evidence, wholly unfair, and downright stupid, but also potentially damaging to someone's reputation. Fortunately Bobak's stream of bubbling nonsense is hardly likely to do any such harm, but clearly it was his intention.

Clearly if Campbell were the sort who could come in and calmly and politely point out the grotesque array of errors that poured down the screen like idiotic sludge in Bobak's flap, he would more effectively be heard, and those too slow to grasp the intricacies of communication (for instance, those unable to read what people wrote) would not so immediately leap to shriek at him. His approach could certainly be more productive.

But it is honest. Which is far more than can be said for the participation of others. And my contention is that this honesty should be treated with more respect than the insidious, deceptive, spite-fest that made up Bobak's post.

I realise this will never happen, since this is a forum, and as such the domain of the shrieking masses. But I still put the effort in to say my thoughts despite that.

Yours in persistent optimism,

Sam Madeupname

[Deuce]

You do realize, though, there is a certain hypocrisy involved in you calling someone else arrogant or rude. And I say that, based solely on the posts you've made here. You've built yourself up verbally as an unimpeachable pillar of integrity in gaming journalism (two words which rarely, if ever, belong in the same sentence), and two paragraphs later, you're spewing profanity and talking down to everyone. It's not exactly convincing.

Believe me when I say, age is no indicator of maturity. You may be in your forties, but that doesn't make you an adult. In fact, you've only got a few years on me (fewer than I care to think about, in fact). But your behavior thus far on this forum gives off the impression that you are, for better or worse, a perfect fit here. You come off as an overaged child that never quite learned the lesson that not everyone is going to agree with you, and the fact that that's okay (an issue that many here seem to have). Regardless of how that may sound, it's not really intended as an insult.

Personally, I tend to think that something that has the temerity to refer to itself as "definitive" should be referential in nature, and not necessarily reverential in tone. Frankly, if negative feedback from the "ignorant" is going to upset you so, I'd suggest you avoid feedback of any kind, develop a more moderate writing style, or grow some thicker skin.

[RevStu]

What's the connection between integrity and being rude to morons? Try as I might I can't see how one impacts on the other.


there is a certain hypocrisy involved in you calling someone else arrogant or rude

You seem to be oddly under the apprehension that I don't think I'm arrogant or rude. Quite clearly I have been those things in this thread - the difference between Bobak and I is that at least I've got my facts right. The other difference is that everyone's up in arms at me for doing it, while simultaneously patting him on the back. I know who the hypocrites are here, and I'm not one of them. I notice you seem quite happy with his original post full of crude language and vile and insulting comments and insinuations.


You come off as an overaged child

I play videogames for a living, hello.

[Mike]

Hello sweeties.

I realise that reason and sense on a forum are the pipedreams of the lunatic, but I like to take a little stab at it now and then.

The problem arises when someone's rudeness is more direct, or honest. Stuart's responses have upset or enraged people because he is quite clear about why and with whom he is cross. A direct, "I think you're a fucking shit-gargler" leaves no one confused, and at least one person insulted. And thus people recognise Stuart as a rude man.

However, I would like to contend that his rudeness is a sugar cube of delight in the festering, mouldy mug of tea that introduced this thread. The original poster wrote something that went beyond rudeness. It was libellous, offensive, and wholly inaccurate. As the editor of the magazine has since stated, and as those who are aware of Campbell's reputation will know, his writing is meticulous, the result of immense amounts of work. To call him lazy, incapable, immature, poor at research, sub-par, or any of the other slurs offered by the opening buffoon are not only without evidence, wholly unfair, and downright stupid, but also potentially damaging to someone's reputation. Fortunately Bobak's stream of bubbling nonsense is hardly likely to do any such harm, but clearly it was his intention.

Clearly if Campbell were the sort who could come in and calmly and politely point out the grotesque array of errors that poured down the screen like idiotic sludge in Bobak's flap, he would more effectively be heard, and those too slow to grasp the intricacies of communication (for instance, those unable to read what people wrote) would not so immediately leap to shriek at him. His approach could certainly be more productive.

But it is honest. Which is far more than can be said for the participation of others. And my contention is that this honesty should be treated with more respect than the insidious, deceptive, spite-fest that made up Bobak's post.

I realise this will never happen, since this is a forum, and as such the domain of the shrieking masses. But I still put the effort in to say my thoughts despite that.

Yours in persistent optimism,

Sam Madeupname

I like these guys. They're fucking funny.

Very well written, too.

You guys should post here more often. Seriously.

Good stuff.

I fully anticipate reading Bobak's counter - which I guarantee will be very difficult to beat.

Very entertaining day here.:smirk:

[Deuce]

What's the connection between integrity and being rude to morons? Try as I might I can't see how one impacts on the other.

Well, most people aren't complete idiots in their day-to-day lives. But when emotions flare, pretty much all the circuit breakers for the parts of the brain that manage impulse control get their fuses blown. And on the internet, it's basically one grand storm of loss of impulse control, 24-7. You're no less guilty than they of perpetuating it.

My advice to you is, let it go. You're not going to agree with each other. It's a waste of time on all sides.

[Sexual Instinct]

I would like to read Retro Gamer but I haven't won the lottery yet.

$126 bucks for a subscription? Get the fuck outta here. I got a years worth of Game Informer for 15 bucks nigga.

[RevStu]

Well, most people aren't complete idiots in their day-to-day lives. But when emotions flare, pretty much all the circuit breakers for the parts of the brain that manage impulse control get their fuses blown. And on the internet, it's basically one grand storm of loss of impulse control, 24-7. You're no less guilty than they of perpetuating it.

Sure. What does that have to do with integrity, though? What does my reaction to idiots moronically criticising my work have to do with whether the work itself has integrity or not?


My advice to you is, let it go.

Oh, I've said all I have to say on the original subject. You and I are discussing something else entirely.

[Deuce]

Sure. What does that have to do with integrity, though? What does my reaction to idiots moronically criticising my work have to do with whether the work itself has integrity or not?

I was more specifically referring to the simple fact that you've been arrogant, rude and obnoxious, in the same (metaphorical) breath as describing yourself as being so far above those whom you deride for being arrogant, rude and obnoxious.

But more in reference to your question, I stand by my previous statement that if the piece describing itself as "definitive" is more a series of reviews than an unbiased, encyclopedic approach, then it lacks integrity... or is, at best, disingenuous. A good journalist is one that can present facts without allowing personal bias to creep into the piece (there are previous few "good journalists" in the world, obviously).

Many would contend that I'd make a poor choice to write a similar piece on the same series, what with being largely ambivalent about it. I'd argue that that very fact makes me a better choice, as I could be more impartial than a longtime fan who has developed certain loyalties to various installments. There are certain things I know about the series' history, such as MSX being released largely in response to fan reactions about the slowdown issues that plagued MS2. Whether you as a writer consider the game to be a cheap cash grab or not should not be part of the article.

The internet has skewed most folks' outlook on what is and isn't "acceptable" in writing of any kind. Call me old-fashioned, but I still tend to stick by the old standards.

[RevStu]

I was more specifically referring to the simple fact that you've been arrogant, rude and obnoxious, in the same (metaphorical) breath as describing yourself as being so far above those whom you deride for being arrogant, rude and obnoxious.

I didn't do any such thing, though. I've freely admitted being rude and obnoxious all the way through. The difference is that I'm not also stupid and wrong.


A good journalist is one that can present facts without allowing personal bias to creep into the piece

Anyone CAN do that, yes. It's very easy indeed. It's also frequently very dull, though, so a good journalist can also pep something up to make it more entertaining to read, because if a magazine isn't entertaining then people generally don't buy it.


Whether you as a writer consider the game to be a cheap cash grab or not should not be part of the article.

Says you. But The Definitives (all written by me, all to the same template) are one of the most popular features on RG, as you can easily verify for yourself by checking the poll that's currently running on the mag website. If you like reading dull stuff, there are plenty of places to find it.

Oh, and I've been writing professionally since 1990, long before there was a widespread internet, and my style hasn't changed. Since you evidently haven't read much if any of my work, I'd thank you not to make rude sweeping generalisations about it based on ignorance, whether yours or someone else's.

[lithy]

But more in reference to your question, I stand by my previous statement that if the piece describing itself as "definitive" is more a series of reviews than an unbiased, encyclopedic approach, then it lacks integrity... or is, at best, disingenuous. A good journalist is one that can present facts without allowing personal bias to creep into the piece (there are previous few "good journalists" in the world, obviously).

I think this appears to be Bobak's main complaint with the article. I will set aside my own judgments since I have not read the actual article (I'd like to), but I think it is fair to say that if you (quoting Deuce but referring to the author now) had Bobak type up this whole post and someone else claim they began to transcribe the entire thing because of how poorly they thought of it, then maybe some time to respond to the criticisms is warranted.

Basically, Bobak makes several mentions that essentially boil down to the fact that you give the games no context. I am no big fan 3 so you're not souring me there, but maybe you could have elaborated on how all of the games in the year 2000 were something of a big "Going out of Business" show. Or like Bobak mentions, that 4 was a sloppily rushed game just mashing up already existing bits from previous games because of the state of the new SNKP just trying to suck a few dollars out of their newfound licenses.

I have not read this "Definitive" series, but it would seem to me that despite not intended to be a dry history of the series, it would do well to include some of the history as each game is released.

Just my opinion of course, one that you don't appear willing to receive.

[Vectorman0]

I've seen this happen before: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103041

:lolz:

Bobak, don't even bother trying to debate this guy, for reasons that are quite obvious at this point. Put that effort into writing a better article.

[RevStu]

I have not read this "Definitive" series, but it would seem to me that despite not intended to be a dry history of the series, it would do well to include some of the history as each game is released.

It does do that. The MS4 entry, for example, does discuss SNK having been taken over and Playmore being responsible for the subsequent titles. Bobak's post is quite stupendously ignorant and wrong in almost every factual sense, so I wouldn't go taking it as a reliable source of anything if I were you.

[Kiselgof]

I'd pay to see zer0hue show up and post one of this retrospectives here! :lol:

Can someone just scan and post up the article here? I can't find the mag at B&N.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

[RevStu]

I've seen this happen before:

Indeed you have. Bobak isn't the first total fuckwit to be completely ignorant of what the purpose of The Definitive is.

[lithy]

It does do that. The MS4 entry, for example, does discuss SNK having been taken over and Playmore being responsible for the subsequent titles. Bobak's post is quite stupendously ignorant and wrong in almost every factual sense, so I wouldn't go taking it as a reliable source of anything if I were you.

So then wouldn't a quick quote from your article be a much simpler reply to this?


His opinion linger into the section on Metal Slug 4, where he states --in what was starting to come close to a polemic-- "it was slightly less bitterly unfair than MS3, as well as being shorter. (And smaller generally, with less branching and therefore less replay value, which would normally be a bad thing but isn't when you're using something as horrible as Metal Slug 3 for your design foundation.)" He theorizes that MS4 was the most criticized in the series because "when players buy something that got good reviews but turns out to be a bad game, they take their frustrations out on the next one in the series - but we don't really have the room to go into it." Oh yeah, sure, that must be why the game was inferior --I'm so happy he spent space in the brief section to outline his personal theories rather than spend time focusing on how the state of SNK/Playmore caused the rush job. He then laments the lack of extras in the ports, since those are likely the only versions he was playing.

You know, instead of just calling him a fuckwit repeatedly like a one trick pony.

[Will Graham]

Well read the article over a month ago, chose not to say anything but after this....

My problem with the article is that aside from MS1 and MS7, Stu doesn't seem to like the franchise. This was easily the most negative of the "Definitive" articles.
The whole thing came off as fanboy bashing rather than a proper critical look at it.

Anyway I hope this does not convince people to not buy Retro Gamer as it is by far the best for retro coverage and worth 10 times more than Game Informer.

[Geddon_jt]

Indeed you have. Bobak isn't the first total fuckwit to be completely ignorant of what the purpose of The Definitive is.

I have all but about a dozen issues of Retro Gamer and that was the first article I ever read where I was truly taken aback by the lack of substance and perspective, regardless of whatever your intentions might have been. I'm sure I have read all of your "The Definitive" pieces as well over the years.

I'm pretty shocked by your behavior on here. You have a foul mouth and a foul temper. It's obvious you are highly bothered by criticism, especially when it comes from people who know a lot more about these games than you do, even after your "week-long" marathon.

There is definitely one thing Bobak got right: your article fucking sucked, regardless of how you want to spin the semantics.

[RevStu]

So then wouldn't a quick quote from your article be a much simpler reply to this?

You know, instead of just calling him a fuckwit repeatedly like a one trick pony.

I didn't actually bother answering that specific criticism at all, far less by calling him a fuckwit. Since by then it had long been established that Bobak doesn't have the first clue what The Definitive is for, there seemed little point in repeating the explanation over and over and over and over.

Nobody gives a shit WHY Metal Slug 4 was the game it was. (Though that's still a far better game than MS3.) What matters is how good it is to play, so in a feature with limited space that's what I concentrate on.

[Kiel Von Olson, Esq.]

You know, instead of just calling him a fuckwit repeatedly like a one trick pony.

thats how its done "in the business".

[RevStu]

I have all but about a dozen issues of Retro Gamer and that was the first article I ever read where I was truly taken aback by the lack of substance and perspective, regardless of whatever your intentions might have been.

I'm pretty shocked by your behavior on here. You have a foul mouth and a foul temper.
There is definitely one thing Bobak got right: your article fucking sucked, regardless of how you want to spin the semantics.

Yawn. You're in the minority. Nothing wrong with being in a minority, but you don't get a medal for it either, so if you've got nothing interesting or constructive to say then fuck off and stop wasting my time.

[djdelly]

There is definitely one thing Bobak got right: your article fucking sucked, regardless of how you want to spin the semantics.

this thread really delivers :smirk:

[Deuce]

I didn't do any such thing, though. I've freely admitted being rude and obnoxious all the way through. The difference is that I'm not also stupid and wrong.

Now, there's the hypocrisy. I don't pay much attention to Bobak's postings. He and I have clashed in the past, and unlike many here, I neither bear him any particular ill will, nor do I venerate him. If you'll notice, in my first post in this thread, I pointed out that you were completely entitled to your opinion, completely entitled to write about it, and anyone who didn't care for it was under no obligation to purchase the magazine. My point is that you have done precisely that... you point out your experience in writing as evidence of your "superiority," to lend weight to your arguments.

A few snippets:

Actually I'm 41, I've been writing professionally about videogames for 20 years, and I've very likely been playing videogames since before you were born
you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick.
I'll say it again, because you seem to be a bit slow on the uptake:
Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.
I can feel my IQ falling just by being near you.
You guys really aren't great with this whole "meaning of words" thing, are you?

The popularity of your feature is not evidence of its quality. You, yourself, espouse this very idea in your dislike of MS3... far and away the biggest fan favorite of the series.

I'm not making any rude, sweeping generalizations. However, I do know what the word "professional" means... and pointing out folks like Simon Cowell as a defense of professional rudeness is hardly helping your stance. Simon Cowell is popular because he's a spectacle creator. Maybe that kind of thing is what Retrogamer is about. I freely admit that I don't know. Regardless of your credentials and/or credibility as a writer, were I your editor-in-chief, I would not allow such an individual to be a representative of my magazine. But I'm used to a genuinely professional (ie. corporate) environment, and such behavior on a public forum would get you fired, more or less summarily.

Just as it's possible to discuss hot-button topics without resorting to abuse, it's equally possible to make referential material not dull to read, without turning it into an opinion piece. But that is the difference between a good journalist and "just another writer." And if that statement needles you, then again, I suggest you grow some thicker skin. Because, like it or not, everyone is a critic. Some are better at expressing themselves than others... but disagreeing with you doesn't make anyone stupid, or wrong. Just as the opposite is true.

[Steve]

*wonders if Ed Semrad or Sushi-X ever got their "panties in a bunch" over a reader's dissenting opinion*

I haven't read Stuart's article so I can't comment on that end.

But as someone who has some experience creating lengthy articles and reviews, let me just say that I have encountered one or two critics in my time (surprisingly, just once or twice) and they were clearly what you might call... "haters."

I just ignored and deleted their comments from my guestbook, lol. They weren't worth my time to email and defend myself, my work or stoop to their level by insulting them back.

I agree with those who say Stuart is acting unprofessionally here. It's one thing to defend yourself. It's another to start spewing profanity like a drunken sailor. Bobak articulated his views without resorting to curse words. You'd expect the same from Stuart. I know it's not easy since you feel "unjustly attacked" for a piece you put lots of man hours into (I'd know about putting man hours into a piece, check out any of my SNES reviews, Ken Griffey Jr. in particular -- that review took me weeks to piece together), but resorting to such blatant profanity does show your character in more ways than you might think (though I guess it's fairly obvious you could care less about what others [here] may think of your "attitude").

Just me ole 2 cents from an unbiased and neutral 3rd party.

[RevStu]

Simon Cowell is popular because he's a spectacle creator.
You don't think this is a spectacle?

[RevStu]

Bobak articulated his views without resorting to curse words.

Really? Most people would regard "shitting out crap" as a little off in polite company. You wouldn't use it in front of the Queen, say.


You'd expect the same from Stuart.

Not if you knew me you wouldn't.

[RevStu]

but disagreeing with you doesn't make anyone stupid, or wrong.

Nobody ever said it did. Please stop building these straw men.

[Praise the Lard]

Can't you guys SEE how Stuart Campbell has lit a fire under this thread's proverbial ass? It's what he does. He's the Charles Bronson of wordsmiths.

Dear Stu, please share with the forum why you love Metal Slug 7 so much? Are favorite entries from other series games such as Mega Man 6 or Golden Axe 3? Your opinion on Metal Slug 3 is fine and all (not that I believe it's 100% true), but your love of Metal Slug 7 is UNACCEPTABLE. Defend thyself Bronson.

[ilazul]

Stuart is their version of Jeff Girstman I guess.

[LoneSage]

I can understand people here defending 2 and putting their hands over their eyes and saying "THE SLOWDOWN ISN'T BAD IN 2 NYAH NYAH", but in a magazine? The reason X exists is because the slowdown was so horrendous that it warranted a do-over.

Haven't read the article, probably never will unless someone scans it, but I've known of Stuart ever since he said Raiden III was his game of the year for 2005.

His aggressive writing style is the only reason he's popular, guy's a dope. Saying Slug 7 is the best in the series? Ugh.

[kernow]

did

did someone just say MS4 was better than MS3


?

:oh_no:

[Deuce]

Nobody ever said it did. Please stop building these straw men.

You've done virtually nothing but call everyone who criticized your work an idiot, or some equivalent thereof. That's a simple fact, not a straw man. If you wish to get into debate terms, you're spouting ad hominem attacks.

Your job experience doesn't make you better than anyone else here.

Well, okay, maybe a few of them, but that's not saying much. ;P

[Kiel Von Olson, Esq.]

did

did someone just say MS4 was better than MS3


?

:oh_no:

Yes Kern, they did.

[RevStu]

You've done virtually nothing but call everyone who criticized your work an idiot, or some equivalent thereof. That's a simple fact,.

Correlation doesn't prove causation. I haven't called you a fuckwit, and you're disagreeing with me. Difference is, you're at least making some sort of case, albeit one filled with flaws where you keep saying I've done things I haven't done. (Where have I ever denied being rude, for example, as you keep insisting I have?)

Bobak posted an incredibly rude, inflammatory, offensive post. I replied in kind, except pointing out that almost all his arguments were FACTUALLY wrong. So how come you're not attacking him, just me?

[Deuce]

Correlation doesn't prove causation. I haven't called you a fuckwit, and you're disagreeing with me. Difference is, you're at least making some sort of case, albeit one filled with flaws where you keep saying I've done things I haven't done. (Where have I ever denied being rude, for example, as you keep insisting I have?)

I didn't say you denied being rude. I said it's hypocritical to be incensed by others' rudeness when you are being just as bad. I said you're being condescending, which you are. As for the flaws in my case, as you put it, please point them out to me. You've carefully ignored most of the content in my posts that call attention to where you're in the wrong, accused me of making a "stupid, sweeping generalization," and generally been closed-off during this entire discussion.


Bobak posted an incredibly rude, inflammatory, offensive post. I replied in kind, except pointing out that almost all his arguments were FACTUALLY wrong. So how come you're not attacking him, just me?

I'm not "attacking" anyone. Even my biggest detractors on this forum (and believe me, I have my fair share) will vouch for that. If I were, you'd most assuredly know it. And honestly, I don't particularly care about the content of the article, itself, since I don't care about the Metal Slug series. I have no stake in this. I only chose to step in to address you directly when you started going on a tirade.

If I seem like I'm attacking you, it's because you're being defensive. You haven't denied being rude, but you also haven't given a credible excuse for it. As a professional writer, you should be able to rise above this tide of negativity and soldier on. Slinging some mud back may be more "fun," but in the end, it leaves you just as dirty as the rest.

[RevStu]

If I seem like I'm attacking you, it's because you're being defensive. You haven't denied being rude, but you also haven't given a credible excuse for it. As a professional writer, you should be able to rise above this tide of negativity and soldier on.

Should I? Why are writers exempt from being offended when people say terrible, offensive, idiotic, untrue things about them? Most other humans would be.


I said it's hypocritical to be incensed by others' rudeness when you are being just as bad

There's an issue of chronology there. If someone attacks you in the street and starts kicking you, are you just as bad as them if you kick back?

[Deuce]

Should I? Why are writers exempt from being offended when people say terrible, offensive, idiotic, untrue things about them? Most other humans would be.

Well, that's one of the things about life: no one has the right to not be offended.

No one is exempt from the feeling. Professionals, however, are expected to maintain some decorum, regardless of their personal feelings on any given matter.


There's an issue of chronology there. If someone attacks you in the street and starts kicking you, are you just as bad as them if you kick back?

You're stretching credibility a bit, there. Verbal assault and physical assault are two very different things. But in the case of physical assault, you're just as bad unless your life is in jeopardy. At this point, all you're doing is hanging around, chasing the initial "kicker," even though no one is still attacking you.

[RevStu]

Well, that's one of the things about life: no one has the right to not be offended.

I agree entirely. I haven't asked for Bobak to be censored, merely challenged his untrue statements. The vast majority of my post was factual correction, with a bit of venting at the end which - as is the way of people whose argument is weak - several people have seized on, using it as an excuse to disregard everything else, despite the fact that it's utterly mundane and everyday stuff for the internet. You can call me a cunt all day long and I won't give a shit, but I object to people maligning my professional integrity and diligence. That's a much more serious business. In fact, it's a crime in most countries.


No one is exempt from the feeling. Professionals, however, are expected to maintain some decorum, regardless of their personal feelings on any given matter.

Are they? Is there a manual? Can you point me to the chapter and clause?

[Deuce]

Are they? Is there a manual? Can you point me to the chapter and clause?

Now you're being deliberately obtuse. I find it hard to believe you've been in any business for twenty years without ever being given any guidance or instruction on workplace behavior, or even basic etiquette.

You may be a freelancer, or however your work is arranged, but in the end, it comes down to the same fact I mentioned before: you are a representative of this magazine, like it or not. Your attitude and behavior here reflect poorly on Retrogamer as a whole. Such behavior in any other job, even one as "simple" as working at a McDonald's, would get you fired. You're not hosting a talk show.

[RevStu]

Now you're being deliberately obtuse. I find it hard to believe you've been in any business for twenty years without ever being given any guidance or instruction on workplace behavior, or even basic etiquette.

I was very well brought up. But my granny always taught me that if you want to be understood by a Frenchman, you should speak French.


You may be a freelancer, or however your work is arranged, but in the end, it comes down to the same fact I mentioned before: you are a representative of this magazine, like it or not.

See, that's not so much a "fact" as "complete bullshit". I am not an employee of the magazine. I post under my own name, as a private individual who happens to be sometimes employed by it. I sometimes write for Poker Player too - do you now hold them in lower regard as well?

If you choose to interpret MY actions as somehow representative of the opinions of the magazine (if a magazine can have an opinion), then I'm afraid it's you who's being the dick, because that's a blatantly wrong and vastly unfair thing to do. Blame Darran for what Darran says, and blame me for what I say. He isn't responsible for me beyond what I write in the pages of the magazine, and has no control or influence whatsoever over it, and to claim or act otherwise is monstrously stupid.


Your attitude and behavior here reflect poorly on Retrogamer as a whole. Such behavior in any other job, even one as "simple" as working at a McDonald's, would get you fired. You're not hosting a talk show.

Many people would argue that that's precisely what I am doing, as are most people in the specialist-magazine business.

[Ruell]

Retro Gamer (issue 62) did one of their "The Definitive" series articles (covering various games in a major game series) for the Metal Slug franchise. While I am a fan of the magazine, the resulting article was terrible... insulting even. Not just to fans of the series, but to casual gamers in general. It appears they used a freelancer, Stuart Campbell (as he's listed as a "contributor" in the masthead); and, assuming that's the case, it shows how the practice can sometimes backfire. If I didn't know any better, it appears it was rushed for a paycheck and/or deadline. You'd think this worldwide economic downturn would cause people to work harder for their bucks...

Okay --since I was so annoyed, I decided to write out, point-by-point, why the article is a mess --a truly geekish reaction on my part, I realize, but sometimes it takes serious provocation to unearth these latent tendencies. The piece doubly irks me because I used to write columns and feature pieces for various papers in my spare time in college and afterward (made some dough, not a ton --but it was better than nothing for what amounted to a hobby), so I get frustrated when I see purported professionals turning out this crap.

For those unfamiliar with Retro Gamer: its a magazine that focuses on classic games and related current and homebrew releases. The article was formatted like most "The Definitive" pieces in RG: it has a brief section introducing the series (very brief in this case), then a game-by-game description of each installment. The author presumably plays as many of the versions as he can get a hold of, or talks about the general consensus on the game if he/she can't find a copy. Its a simple format, and any writer worth their ink can probably turn out a quality article with little worry... or so I assumed. Let's take a look at this one:


The author doesn't actually know the storyline of the series he's writing a feature on: he ends his own introductory section with "So join The Definitive one more time as we strap on an ammo belt, wade into the fray, and see if we can't get to the bottom of who that pesky Liquid Ocelot really is once and for all." Okay... any guesses what's wrong here? Thankfully RG put in an editorial note that he mistakenly mentioned a character from Metal Gear...but even that begs a question of why didn't they have him do a rewrite (answer: someone was probably shitting something out at the last second for a deadline).

The write up on the original Metal Slug is dominated by completely baseless suggestion that Metal Slug was aimed for release on the Neo CD. It appears his reason was he was only able to get access to the CD version; now, while the home cart is infamously expensive --something he didn't mention-- why couldn't he grab an MVS? But back to the write up on Metal Slug: there's virtually no time spent on what made the game so interesting at the time other than the two sentence description in the introductory section (and oddly not one mention of Contra until very late in the article, but I assume this guy is pretty young since he refers to the SNES). Instead he talks entirely about what extra features were on the Neo CD "port". While that's nice, it seems you should spend at least a paragraph on the first game talking about what made it successful. Alas, no.

Let's toss out another sign of poor research: not one mention of Nazca, the original developer. Ouch.

The PlayStation port of Metal Slug gets its own section, mostly to discuss the addition of mini-games. Its fascinating that so much ink is spent on the additional features in the various CD versions of Metal Slug without spending much time on the actual gameplay of the original; someone made a false assumption that readers all know what Metal Slug is about --a.k.a. poor journalism.

We get a weird passing mention of the Saturn version under the PlayStation version of MS1, but they never acknowledge its existence in any of the actual sections (where they parenthetically reference the releases). I don't know whose fault this is, writer, layout people or editor (well, it would fall on the last guy since he's the one in charge of QA).

Metal Slug 2's section kicks off starts off with the following description: "Despite beign little more than a new set of levels for the first game (albeit six this time rather than five), and introducing two features that would go on to almost ruin the entire series, Metal Slug 2 is still pretty good fun." This begs the question: what are these two features that nearly "ruin the entire series"? If you poll people who're familiar with the game, you'll likely get "slowdown" as a popular answer, as this game was full of it. Not in this case. Mr. Campbell felt "the debut of zombies and fat mode [. . .] slowed it to a horrible grinding crawl." I admit it took me a few seconds to realize he was referring to the mummy mode when he referred to "zombies" (a forgivable error), but I must admit this is the first time I've heard anyone actually hold the two modes (particularly the mummy issue in Stage 2) as something so horrific. I'm sure most of you actual gamers have learned that a competent player can quickly get through Stage 2 without ever turning into a mummy, and his complaints seem to imply that he kept trying to finish these games --rushing through-- without trying to learn any technique, hidden secrets, etc. and kept getting hosed by the mummy/fat traps... the sort of thing that happens when you see first-timers or kids play the game (or people trying to rush an article on a series they're actually not all that familiar with). Again, there's not one mention of the slowdown.

Because he somehow didn't notice the slowdown in 2, he doesn't mention the faster gameplay in Metal Slug X. He acknowledges that its popular among "aficionados", but doesn't actually take any time to reveal why. Instead he summarizes the game as "churned out quickly to squeeze more money out of gullible fans". He states this game was more loved by home players, then proceeds to spend two-thirds of the section about all the additions on the PS1 port --implying that's the reason its so popular. His research is so half-assed that he states "Interestingly, Metal Slug X didn't get a Neo-Geo CD release" ...okay, for someone who spent a big chunk of the earlier section on MS1 talking about the reasons for the CD's creation, he apparently didn't connect the dots that it wasn't being as actively supported by 1999. There's also no mention of the odd inclusion of inaccessible, half-finished underwater levels and other stuff in the coding of the cartridges, but that would be something a person who did, actual research would've discovered --not someone who neglected to mention Nazca.

The author does not hide the fact that he hates Metal Slug 3, which is popularly considered one of, if not the finest in the series. He opens this section with "As any keen student of philosophy knows, there's supposedly an ancient Chinese proverb that runs: "Most people are fat-headed cretins without enough brains for even one good sandwich", and it's never better illustrated than when people say Metal Slug 3 is as good as the series got. Metal Slug 3 isn't even as good as the Black Death got." I'm not going to start on the awkward structure of the first sentence, but I do wonder how on earth this kind of statement appears in a "Definitive" retrospective on a video game series. The Editor jumps in with his second note of the article, that he loved the game. He's obviously not alone. Why does he hate it? Its hard. (Boo-hoo, now man up.) He seems crushed that the first level boss was "one of the most epically hateful first level bosses in recorded history." Okay, I'm by no means an expert at any of these games, but I will say it took me only one time facing that boss to figure out how to simply beat him without losing a life (run and shoot backwards... revolutionary, I know.). The best answer I can come up with is Mr. Campbell like his games easy (obvious jokes resisted here...). We have people on this site that can 1CC the game, so its certainly not impossible, but I will concede that the game is very tough. And while its fair to acknowledge that there are people who feel the tone and/or difficulty made it not as good as the others, this section epitomizes how unpolished the article is.

His opinion linger into the section on Metal Slug 4, where he states --in what was starting to come close to a polemic-- "it was slightly less bitterly unfair than MS3, as well as being shorter. (And smaller generally, with less branching and therefore less replay value, which would normally be a bad thing but isn't when you're using something as horrible as Metal Slug 3 for your design foundation.)" He theorizes that MS4 was the most criticized in the series because "when players buy something that got good reviews but turns out to be a bad game, they take their frustrations out on the next one in the series - but we don't really have the room to go into it." Oh yeah, sure, that must be why the game was inferior --I'm so happy he spent space in the brief section to outline his personal theories rather than spend time focusing on how the state of SNK/Playmore caused the rush job. He then laments the lack of extras in the ports, since those are likely the only versions he was playing.

Metal Slug 5 gets a half-paragraph, stating that it was better and pointedly celebrating that "most importantly of all it's completely zombie free! Yay!" At this point in the article I felt like I was reading a fan review in GameFAQs --though I assume he wasn't using ROMs on his PC.

Just to wrap up his opinions on the main series: Metal Slug 6 is a "wholly wretched experience" because its difficult. I haven't had much experience with it, so I'll let you be the judge. Metal Slug 7 is the "finest game in the history of the series" He goes on to declare: "After a decade of disappointments, it's almost as much of a breath of fresh air the first game was all those years ago."

Back to a more general comment: The author didn't even know what to call himself, he actually refers to himself as a "reporter" a few times, which is not the role he was fulfilling in writing a feature piece on a video game series --he was closer to a journalist, of which reporters are a subset, but even then he shows complete bias in his style which negates a fundamental point of journalism. While its tempting to throw out the words "amateur" or "hack", I'd settle with "someone who was too busy to do a good job, and instead did a rush job and assumed no one would notice".

I know the Editors of Retro Gamer sometimes read this site, and they've been very nice to us --even apologetic for that rather one-sided fiasco in the Last Hope article and the (now former) "journalist" who came here looking for only one opinion (his). They've mentioned this site more than once, and profiled the owner, so lets be clear that this isn't meant to target the magazine which I, by-and-large, enjoy. However, when I read something so unpolished, so rushed, so incompletely researched --titled "The Definitive", no less-- its insulting to fans of this series and this system. Only recently have "game journalists" started to get any serious cred in journalism, but then something like comes along and makes the rest look bad. Since this mag costs $12 in the States, if you're thinking about buying this issue for the feature, I'd say give it a pass.

So yeah, /review.

I remember when I used to pick these up from the airforce BX back when they carried them. I always loved how they came with a Cd of extras. But I stopped picking up any since they stopped carrying them. I'll be sure not to pick up this one if I ever see it.

[Ancient Flounder]

Hot damn, I go to bed and all this happens? This thread delivers. The fun part is the fact that Stu keeps going on like a rabid child thinking he is right and all others are just dumps from a cow's ass, with the intelligence to match.

Nah, sorry, but I've been writing for years and I'll say this much: objectivity is key when writing a piece that is to be professionally published and released to a large audience. If you want to be loud, smarmy and generally oblivious to the topic you are covering (one week of playing the series isn't very long for really doing your research), you should keep it to the website where you charge people to read your shit. What a crock that is.

20 years experience in gaming journalism doesn't mean squat if you are terrible at it. You could have 20 years experience in hooking on the streets, but if you are a bad lay, then it means jack-shit. And for a 'professional', you have an awful lot of time on your hands to argue point/counterpoint. Face it: you're a hack. And if Retro Gamer thinks you are worthy of publishing, then they are just as unworthy of a fan-base.

And your video pinball table sucks balls. Fuck the Sex Pistols.

[Deuce]

He isn't responsible for me beyond what I write in the pages of the magazine, and has no control or influence whatsoever over it, and to claim or act otherwise is monstrously stupid.

Wow. If that's your attitude, it's no wonder that you don't get it. Consider yourself fortunate that your job places absolutely no pressure on you to conduct yourself in a professional manner.

Have fun, manchild.


And for a 'professional', you have an awful lot of time on your hands to argue point/counterpoint.

He's not doing that. He's editing out everything he doesn't want to address.

[RevStu]

Wow. If that's your attitude, it's no wonder that you don't get it. Consider yourself fortunate that your job places absolutely no pressure on you to conduct yourself in what I arbitrarily decide is a "professional" manner, an opinion I will continue to present as a fact.

I do. If you blame anyone else for anything I say, you're the fuckwit, and you can try to bluster your way out of that as much as you want without it changing.

[Sexual Instinct]

I never thought I'd see a game journalist who makes Timothy Rogers seem like a really cool guy.

[RevStu]

Hot damn, I go to bed and all this happens? This thread delivers. The fun part is the fact that Stu keeps going on like a rabid child thinking he is right and all others are just dumps from a cow's ass, with the intelligence to match.

Nah, sorry, but I've been writing for years and I'll say this much: objectivity is key when writing a piece that is to be professionally published and released to a large audience. If you want to be loud, smarmy and generally oblivious to the topic you are covering (one week of playing the series isn't very long for really doing your research), you should keep it to the website where you charge people to read your shit. What a crock that is.

20 years experience in gaming journalism doesn't mean squat if you are terrible at it. You could have 20 years experience in hooking on the streets, but if you are a bad lay, then it means jack-shit. And for a 'professional', you have an awful lot of time on your hands to argue point/counterpoint. Face it: you're a hack. And if Retro Gamer thinks you are worthy of publishing, then they are just as unworthy of a fan-base.

And your video pinball table sucks balls. Fuck the Sex Pistols.

Bless.

[Chainclaw]

This thread is awesome.

I read about half of every Retrogamer, and it's a fun magazine.

If magazines were encyclopedias, I doubt anyone would ever read them.

[ookitarepanda]

This is so awesome. Makes me want to go play more MS, actually.

http://www.eegra.com/comics/2008/08/45.gif

[hermosaguy]

I never thought I'd see a game journalist who makes Timothy Rogers seem like a really cool guy.

Haha, my old roomie used to idolize the scenester T Rog.

[Deuce]

I do. If you blame anyone else for anything I say, you're the fuckwit, and you can try to bluster your way out of that as much as you want without it changing.

Wow. Quote editing. Very mature.

You say that your behavior here, in direct reference to your overreaction to someone griping about an article you wrote in Retrogamer, where even the (purported) people who run the magazine in some regard literally apologized for your language, is in no way a reflection on said magazine.

I doubt anyone is holding Retrogamer responsible for what you say or do outside of your writing, but you're a fool if you think there's no such thing as "guilt by association." There's a reason that individuals and companies alike try to distance themselves from those who make public fools of themselves. If you were being irrational about something totally unrelated to your work for the magazine, you might have a point, flimsy as it would be. I find it highly amusing that someone as dense as you has the gall to impugn my intelligence.

I hope you stick around. You've got potential here.

[astrodan88]

*wonders if Ed Semrad or Sushi-X ever got their "panties in a bunch" over a reader's dissenting opinion*

Indeed. I long for the golden age of gaming journalism.

Scary Larry was above all else a consummate professional.

[Pentarou]

RevStu, you are really dragging down Retro Gamer with you here. If I were you, I'd stop posting now to save them any further embarrassment.

[Professor Denim]

Hello idiots!

his first words in this site. his confidence is amazing.

[SIXPACK]

I'm done here, as I can feel my IQ falling just by being near you.

I totally agree! You should look for a place were they have the same IQ as yours!
Try your local sewer.

[OMFG]

his first words in this site. his confidence is amazing.


I totally agree! You should look for a place were they have the same IQ as yours!
Try your local sewer.

Man, it must be bad if Benfiquistas are posting in this thread. :buttrock:

[GunstarHero]

I like these guys. They're fucking funny.

Very well written, too.

You guys should post here more often. Seriously.

Good stuff.



Absolutely agree. I can't really argue about the article, I have not yet read it. But these guys are 100% Neo-Geo.com members in my book. Loud mouthed, ruthless and curt.

[Professor Denim]

Man, it must be bad if Benfiquistas are posting in this thread. :buttrock:
:loco:

[Neo Alec]

This article reminds me of some of the worse pieces over at Hardcore Gaming 101 (http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/). The Art of Fighting page in particular. It suffered from some of the same problems: Lack of context, way too much time spent talking about the ports, and was apparently written by someone who had only recently researched the series, rather than living through it during the era it was released. A web site is one thing, but for a magazine to publish something like this (particularly one that has a generally good reputation like Retro Gamer) is just lazy. Thank you, Bobak, for exposing it.

The article must have confused the mummies introduced in Metal Slug 2 with the zombies introduced in Metal Slug 3. An honest mistake, but might indicate another place where the author wasn't paying very close attention to the details.

[Metal Slugnuts]

Wow, what a completely unproffesional and childish hack. :oh_no:

I love how that even going by what the Definitive articles are supposed to be in RG, his article is STILL poorly researched and horribly written. One fucking week for the ENTIRETY of the Metal Slug games, including ports? I spent one week on just the original MVS version, and I woudn't feel comfortable writing a damn GameFAQs review of it, let alone a full spread for a respected magazine.

Face it: even from a layman's view, your article is terribley written, terribley researched and terribley WRONG.

[SIXPACK]

Man, it must be bad if Benfiquistas are posting in this thread. :buttrock:

Imagine if RevStu said something bad about Benfiquistas, :hammer:!

[RevStu]

Wow, what a completely unproffesional and childish hack. I love how that even going by what the Definitive articles are supposed to be in RG, his article is STILL poorly researched and horribly written.

No it isn't, shit-for-brains. There isn't a single mistake in it, whereas your post made it five words before you fucked up.

[lithy]

No it isn't, shit-for-brains. There isn't a single mistake in it, whereas your post made it five words before you fucked up.

You're getting kind of boring.

[lithy]

I hate to think that we're keeping Stewie up late. Must be past 11pm in the UK right? Maybe he just missed his nap because of this thread, it would at least explain why he's so cranky.

[RevStu]

I doubt anyone is holding Retrogamer responsible for what you say or do outside of your writing, but you're a fool if you think there's no such thing as "guilt by association."

Make your mind up, love.

[RevStu]

You're getting kind of boring.

Then fuck off and stop reading.

[lithy]

Then fuck off and stop reading.


I'm done here, as I can feel my IQ falling just by being near you.

Ok.

[ninjaboyjohn]

Haha, my old roomie used to idolize the scenester T Rog.

insertcredit for life!

This whole issue cleared up considerably when it became clear that The Definitive is meant as a farce.

I'd definitely be more interested in a history / retrospective piece than "The Definitive."

How were the Metal Slug games received in the declining western arcade market? How come the engine and the majority of the sprites didn't change for the most of the series - how can Nazca afford to create MS1 and then re-art sprites and do engine tweaks for the other games, and how did that factor into the general SNK business plan (and what did it cost to make?) How did art direction, animation, and sound design mesh to create such a visually stunning game that still stands out today? Can we view the quarter-sucking nature of arcade game design through the various Metal Slugs and their difficulty ramps?

[Praise the Lard]

We already established that you're an egomaniac back on page 1 Stuart. No need to keep waving the fact in the wind. All you're really doing is dragging Retro Gamer's good name through the mud, and for what really? Maybe you should think about it. You're 41 years old, starting to act it wouldn't hurt.

I feel bad for Darren and the rest of the RG crew that might be reading this mess. Your tirade here is the worst thing I've ever seen related to RG. It's the kind of thing that will be linked for years to come whenever RG makes the slightest error just so internet jackasses can highlight the quality of the their writers by using you as their example.

Hopefully it was worth it for you, if only so you could feel like your ego was defended. I didn't know who Stuart Campbell was before this, but I know who he is now. I wish I didn't, because he's a cog of the only gaming magazine I've actively bought since the early 1990s.

[Deuce]

Make your mind up, love.

Pardon my omission. I should have said, "directly responsible." While the staff may choose not to hold you personally accountable for what you do outside your writing, you'd be sorely mistaken in thinking that no one else will associate your attitude with the image of the magazine.

As for Mr. Madeupname, you fall into more or less the same category by defending him. Yes, I read what you wrote, and I'll certainly address it. Yes, I've clashed with Bobak in the past, and I freely concede that his criticisms could've been made in a less impolitic fashion. I don't really care. There's the simple fact that this is not a public forum, however viewable and accessible by the public it may be. It's a privately-owned web site, and Bobak is the administrator. It's his playground; he can say and do what he wants. Sure, he's been an ignorant dick in the past (and I've told him so), and maybe he was in his original post, but it's all rather immaterial at this point.

Your freelance contractor/employee/what-have-you has come here with an agenda, to defend himself. Perfectly reasonable, but he did so in a grotesquely immature fashion. You're only doing slightly better. What you describe as "joining in" is no different from hypocrisy. There is the old aphorism, "Practice what you preach." If Stuart wanted to speak from a position of moral authority, he could have come in and addressed the points made rationally. Instead, he chose to spew insults and profanity at every turn, and then got further offended when people called him on it.

If you're actually one of the higher-ups behind Retrogamer, more power to you. Perhaps your entire staff is made up of immature middle-aged men. Stuart made the comment, "I play games for a living, hello." This is not an excuse for such behavior. He claims to be a professional, but the word means a great deal more than simply "getting paid to do something."

Professionalism is the practice of "exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner." There is no bastardization of the English language that can be wrought to accurately say that Stuart has done this in this thread. And by defending him, you only serve to further defame the magazine which you claim to be part of.

Oh, and by the way, the screen name? I know its various definitions. You're not being clever by mocking it, or making allusions to how you could. You're just being immature. Ooh, potty humor.

[aria]

Wow, five pages? Nice.

Okay… after reading Stuart Campbell’s original article, I wouldn’t have expected a professional, adult response, and I see I was correct.

Since this obviously got under his skin (enough that he’s replied no less than 25 times in this thread), I’ll take a look at his initial response (way back on page one).

Here’s a running theme to notice in his response: he zeros in on a handful of items (not successfully refuting them, as will be soon evident), mostly because he can’t really answer for how terrible the article was.


Hello idiots!

A fine way to kick it off –a minor writer from England coming into a web forum to pick an argument. Let’s see how those arguments hold water:


Or, if you'd done YOUR research properly, you'd know that that's a running joke that appears in lots of the Definitive features - the "comment from the editor" is in fact written by me. Even if you were reading RG for the first time and didn't know about its running jokes, though, you'd have to be epically stupid to think that the magazine would correct the "mistake" in such a way, rather than just change the text. (Or that they'd hire someone who didn't know the difference between Metal Slug and Metal Gear Solid in the first place.) I mean, Jesus, seriously? You're THAT dim? How do you get out of bed in the morning without locking yourself in the wardrobe?

Amidst the personal attacks (a professional response to criticism, no doubt), we find his central argument is that the error was a “joke”. Okay, then why did so many of the readers here miss the joke? Answer: poor writing. Poor writing that was prevalent throughout the article. I’m sure Mr. Campbell isn’t always a poor writer (how else would he keep getting assignments in retro gaming magazines), but from the quality of the article in question, this time he was overpaid.


Where have you dreamed up this fantasy from? Where does the feature say anything like that? If English isn't your first language then it's understandable you might misinterpret some things, but if that's the case then you should probably shut up rather than bitterly attack people over things YOU'VE misunderstood. If English IS your first language, then God knows how you've arrived at such a bizarre conclusion. The feature at NO POINT suggests any such thing.

Awesome, now he tossed in some curious insults about my ability to speak English. Must be the sort of Englishman who uses the term “Paki” in everyday conversation, but moving on to what he actually says:
Campbell claims he never meant to imply the game had been aimed at the Neo Geo CD. Yet, reading his section on Metal Slug, completely dominated by a discussion of the CD, you’re left with the implication. What’s the answer? Poor writing.


Actually I'm 41, I've been writing professionally about videogames for 20 years, and I've very likely been playing videogames since before you were born, son. The Definitive series isn't intended to be about what influenced Game X, it's about the ludography of Game X.

This was Mr. Campbell’s response to why he didn’t write a word on what Metal Slug was actually about before spending his entire section discussing the CD version. As you can see, he doesn’t actually answer anything; rather he says this isn’t about what “influenced” the game. My comment never said he should cover what “influenced” the game, it was pointing out he never described the actual game. You can add poor reading skill to the already evident writing skills.

Side note: I don’t think I could have ever made a more damaging argument than his own statement that he’s 41… and writing like this… and picking fights on “teh interwebs”… What a wondrous career we weave, when to one’s own writing ability we self deceive.

So, if Mr. Campbell is reading this (har-har, gee I wonder?), yes –you are older than me. You’re a 41 year old video game writer who can’t write very well, I’m a 29 year old attorney with a solid career in the medical device industry. Shall we start wielding our e-dicks? You probably don’t want to with me.


Er, the intro page does exactly that. Did you bother to read it at all? Let me quote it back to you.

[block quote]

A bit more than a paragraph, in fact, clearly detailing the reasons for Metal Slug being a hit.

Here he claims he never needed to write about the original Metal Slug in its own section because the intro section actually talks about what made the game interesting and successful. Nice defense if he actually had done so, but alas all the introduction contains is a half-baked “my first time seeing the game” story and a few generic sentences that amount to: “[. . .] was this really an old-school SNES-style 2D platform shooter?” (okay, that’s a vague description of the genre) and, a paragraph later: “Compared to anything else that was in arcades in 1996, Metal Slug was like Robotron – an exhilarating non-stop bloodbath with beautiful pixel art and a sense of humor. (More accurately, it was the arcade equivalent of Treasure’s 1993 Mega Drive masterpiece Gunstar Heroes.)” Good introduction to the series, not a very good description of the actual game. There’s a logical leap he makes, but doesn’t write out on paper, that people who read the article are familiar with the game and storyline, so he never takes anytime to do that –in fact, the closest he comes to describing the story is the poorly written “joke” about Metal Gear.

So what’s present in the introduction doesn’t do a good job of describing the original Metal Slug. Chalk that one up to poor organization, poor logic and our running theme, poor writing.


That's not poor research, that's not bothering to waste words telling people things they already know (and which aren't relevant to the feature's purpose in any case). Nazca's name appears on the title screen, for God's sake. Anyone who can read knows who made it.

Mr. Campbell states that no one reading an article about Metal Slug would care who developed it. Yet in the same article he shows people do care by not just calling out Gunstar Heroes, but “Treasure’s” Gunstar Heroes. He backpedals into the reference to the title screen having the developer name (well… duh.), and moves on. If its not poor research, then its… poor writing.


And on and on it goes. You evidently don't know what The Definitive is about, yet feel able to launch into outraged and offensive criticism and personal abuse anyway. The purpose of the series is to tell people about every game in a particular videogame franchise, including obscure ones they might not know about, and tell them about interesting variations in ports and the like. It is NOT supposed to be the complete history of Metal Slug, discussing the development of the game, its influences, its plotline or what its coders had for breakfast the day they started it. RG has a completely different feature-thread for that, called The Complete History Of. Clear?

This paragraph didn’t introduce anything new; it only attempts to cover for his lousy introduction to the original game. He doesn’t mention that my own introduction stated that these articles “covervarious games in a major game series”.

Humorously (though not intended on his part), Mr. Campbell claims my criticism was “personal abuse”. I can only assume he hasn’t received many professional criticisms in his life (there isn’t a whole lot of focus on the emerging field of game journalism, so that’s quite believable), or he has no idea what professional criticism is –my comments address how poorly put together his supposedly professional work is. As for a definition of a personal abuse, well, see how he conducts his own response... it tells you a lot about the sort of circles he’s used to running in.


What on Earth are you dribbling about, tiresome child? The mention acknowledges the existence. There is nothing unusual or interesting in gameplay terms about the Saturn version, so it doesn't get any specific coverage.

Its at this exact point you know for certain that Mr. Campbell doesn’t have strong arguments: I point out that they forgot to put the Saturn version under any section head (as they do parenthetically), he tried to move to the side and answer something else. I ask “what’s the 3+3”, he answers “pear”.

[Side note for older members: hearing echoes of Dion, anyone?]


Because nobody except dull obsessive nerds gives a rat's arse about it. Most people don't even notice, and expect games of that era to slow down at busy points anyway.
Let’s be clear that I raised the suspicion that Mr. Campbell didn’t use any home/MVS carts in his “research”, and this dismissal of the massive slowdown in 2 only reinforces that. I think any lay gamer would notice it pretty quick –especially if you look back to when it first arrived, costing $200+ on a $600+ video game system. Slowdown was huge, and relevant to the time, and something that was missed in poor research and… poor writing.


I didn't imply any such thing. I mention the additions on the PS port because - much as I hate to repeat myself - that's the purpose of the Definitive features. The Definitive is concerned with how the PS1 version differs from the original. If it doesn't differ, it doesn't get an entry. If it has substantial changes, omissions or additions, it does. Are you getting it yet?
A great example of selective quoting: it took me a few seconds to figure out what he was quoting, but we’re now talking about X. I had observed, in the much larger paragraph he quoted from, that the shoddy work on Metal Slug 2 had rolled into a undercooked section with an incomplete description of X and then a very thick description of the PS1 version. He replies with “The Definitive is concerned with how the PS1 version differs from the original. If it doesn't differ, it doesn't get an entry.” As anyone who’d read the section would’ve concluded, it might as well have been solely about the PS1 version –going back to the suspicion that it was the only version he actually played. If that’s an incorrect assumption, it’s poor writing.


I'm perfectly well aware of those things, but since people can't play them there's very little point in mentioning them. It seems your main gripe is that the feature wasn't 16 pages long, which it would have had to be to include all the stuff you're dribbling on about, none of which is very interesting and which most people already know anyway.
Given how inadequately short his game descriptions tended to be, Mr. Campbell’s argument that he can’t possibly include lines like “the game was developed by Nazca”; “Nazca was bought by SNK”; “MSX was noticeably half-finished, with inaccessibly levels programmed in”; etc. is disingenuous and rather embarrassing. Instead we have whole extra paragraphs that only expand on MSX’s PS1 extras. This is “poor [a lot of things]”.


I didn't say the first boss was hard, I said it was hateful. It's tedious and repetitive and unenjoyable. Please have the courtesy to restrict your criticism to things I actually said, rather than things you've totally imagined.

You have to love this quote. In essence, he’s saying an inanimate level one boss is “hateful”, “deserving of or arousing hate”. He says this had nothing to do with being difficult. This assumes we’re operating in a vacuum, and not reading his entire opinion: Considering his earlier comments, in MS2, about how horrible the (wholly optional) mummy/fat traps were as well as references to the later zombie traps (revealing he was getting shot a lot), and his rants about the MS3 being a “joyless chore” and “tedious”, we get a strong view that Mr. Campbell has a hard time with Metal Slug, and 3 got a tad too difficult for him. So did he say hard? No. Did O.J. need to say “I did it?”


Ha ha ha. Do please share with us your authoritative source for these "definitions". Let me help you out with the first definition of "reporter" from Encarta:
"somebody whose job is to find out facts and use the print or broadcast media to tell people about them"

...which is precisely what the feature does. The same source lists "journalist" as:

"a writer or editor for a newspaper or magazine or for television or radio"

...which is of course also entirely accurate.

(Honestly, I didn’t even realize people still had Encarta, but that’s a side note of no relevance, just an echo to when I was much younger)

When I wrote columns, I was separate from the newsroom. The reason is obvious: the editorial section, of which the columnists were a part, are about opinion –not reporting facts. The reason a lot of professional organizations keep them separate (though not so much in the UK papers, which I should acknowledge, other than solid papers such as FT), is that –by combining fact-finding reporter/journalism with opinion writing—you can end up with poorly written articles like Mr. Campbell’s. Perhaps this blurry line at most UK papers versus their US counterparts plays some part here, but I think we can all agree that a journalist/columnist is one who reports accurately can write well.

[Good lord, this got too long and I hit the post size limit...Continued in the next post]

[aria]

[Continued from the previous post]


My sang-froid has to take a momentary back seat here, as I have to suggest that you go fuck yourself, you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick. The Definitive Metal Slug took over a week of non-stop work, including playing every game through to the end several times, and the feature was very well-received by readers of the magazine. It fulfils its commissioned brief completely, and the fact that you might personally have wanted an entirely different type of feature about Metal Slug is really neither here nor there. Your unwarranted insults, ignorance of the basic facts and gratuitous stupidity certainly don't make me wish I'd done anything different.

Given how poorly written his little response was, I actually believe that it took Mr. Campbell over a week to put together the terrifically bad article that was in Retro Gamer. Its interesting that he believes that no one here, and I know a number of you pick up the mag regularly, are “readers of the magazine”.


Love and kisses,
Stu.

This may have very well been the most embarrassing post by any 41 year old I know. From what I can tell, Mr. Campbell is used to responding to people he assumes are much younger than he is (even when he’s writing about games that are over 10 years old). From his response, you can also assume he’s used to just throwing out some quickly jotted down (or possibly sat down and thought out, who knows…) points to either troll or try and make the other side back off because he’s had some sort of career in this. Well, clearly he’s not all that good at what he does –and, since I’m not a person that into the “scene” he must be in, all I see is someone who isn’t very good at what he claims to be good at. But I give Mr. Campbell kudos for getting so “far” with so little. I’d like to think game journalism has been getting better, what with its inclusion in media such as the The New York Times and others, so perhaps its passed him by.

So, to summarize Mr. Campbell’s argument (with its lack of solid points), we’re left with: “You suck”. Considering I broke it down to two words, I think we can (again) blame it on poor writing.

I can’t wait to read the rest of this thread past his response.

[Sam Madeupname]

You're very lucky to have read it, as it seems to have vanished from the site.

I am nothing to do with Retro Gamer, and have never written for them. My only interests are in people making reasonable discourse. I find fora a fascinating petri dish of repeated patterns of behaviour, and am often interested to learn whether people will change their behaviours when they're observed. (They never do, of course.)

For instance, you of course did not address my point at all. You said that Bobak could have expressed himself better, call him a name, but you do not say whether you level the same criticisms against him as you do Stuart. Instead, impressively, you state that you don't care. Which, well, is obviously an enormous cop-out, but an expected one. You obfuscated, and avoided.

It's also interesting that you perceive that I am defending Stuart. I am not at all. I am simply asking for people to be honest. I respect Stuart's rudeness far more than the insidious, libellous outpourings of your King, but this does not translate to a defence.

I think you're muddling two definitions of "professional", but I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose to be facetious, or if you're genuinely confused. A teacher is considered a "professional" whether they behave in a manner deemed unprofessional or not.

I'm far more confused by your response to my comments about hypocrisy. I gave some splendid examples to demonstrate why stating that one has been offended, and going on to be offensive, is not hypocritical. It really doesn't make sense that you conflate the two. If Stuart had said, "No one should write insults on a forum, and you're all cockfaces," then you could argue this was hypocritical. However, if I observe that you are being deliberately stupid about this particular subject, and then go on to be stupid myself, I have not been a hypocrite. I have accurately identified that you are being stupid, because obviously you are, and then I've gone on to do a stupid thing. I haven't, of course - I'm far too clever and erudite. I repeat: If I observe that someone is eating, and then eat a sandwich, this isn't hypocritical, it's joining in.

But really, if you use a screen name that means "poo", being annoyed that someone may call attention to this when you're being a twit seems a little self-defeating.

Love you.

[Sexual Instinct]

I actually believe Stu was making a joke with the whole "Liquid Ocelot" thing. I just can't imagine someone making that mistake, thinking the two series (MS and MGS) are some how related. So while the rest of the article may have been poorly written (haven't read it personally), I have to disagree with you on that part Bobak. Perhaps if you didn't know who the character Liquid Ocelot was and had to look it up then maybe you could mistake it for an error on the writers part.

Now, was it a funny joke? Not really. But thats not really the point.

[Nesagwa]

I actually believe Stu was making a joke with the whole "Liquid Ocelot" thing. I just can't imagine someone making that mistake, thinking the two series (MS and MGS) are some how related. So while the rest of the article may have been poorly written (haven't read it personally), I have to disagree with you on that part Bobak. Perhaps if you didn't know who the character Liquid Ocelot was and had to look it up then maybe you could mistake it for an error on the writers part.

Now, was it a funny joke? Not really. But thats not really the point.

It is kind of the point if the point is he isn't a very good writer. If you're going to be sarcastic and put in a joke, make sure its funny.

[Metal Slugnuts]

You're very lucky to have read it, as it seems to have vanished from the site.

I am nothing to do with Retro Gamer, and have never written for them. My only interests are in people making reasonable discourse. I find fora a fascinating petri dish of repeated patterns of behaviour, and am often interested to learn whether people will change their behaviours when they're observed. (They never do, of course.)

For instance, you of course did not address my point at all. You said that Bobak could have expressed himself better, call him a name, but you do not say whether you level the same criticisms against him as you do Stuart. Instead, impressively, you state that you don't care. Which, well, is obviously an enormous cop-out, but an expected one. You obfuscated, and avoided.

It's also interesting that you perceive that I am defending Stuart. I am not at all. I am simply asking for people to be honest. I respect Stuart's rudeness far more than the insidious, libellous outpourings of your King, but this does not translate to a defence.

I think you're muddling two definitions of "professional", but I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose to be facetious, or if you're genuinely confused. A teacher is considered a "professional" whether they behave in a manner deemed unprofessional or not.

I'm far more confused by your response to my comments about hypocrisy. I gave some splendid examples to demonstrate why stating that one has been offended, and going on to be offensive, is not hypocritical. It really doesn't make sense that you conflate the two. If Stuart had said, "No one should write insults on a forum, and you're all cockfaces," then you could argue this was hypocritical. However, if I observe that you are being deliberately stupid about this particular subject, and then go on to be stupid myself, I have not been a hypocrite. I have accurately identified that you are being stupid, because obviously you are, and then I've gone on to do a stupid thing. I haven't, of course - I'm far too clever and erudite. I repeat: If I observe that someone is eating, and then eat a sandwich, this isn't hypocritical, it's joining in.

But really, if you use a screen name that means "poo", being annoyed that someone may call attention to this when you're being a twit seems a little self-defeating.

Love you.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/kanyozakura/Xzibit_verbose.jpg

[Sexual Instinct]

Could a mod please take away Kan's ability to post images?

[Sam Madeupname]

As it was deleted before, surely by mistake, I shall repost the final part of what I'd previously written, as it seems to meet some of Bobak's lunatic dribbling:

Stupid, lazy nonsense:

Anyone who starts blabbering on about how something should be "objective" should be sealed in a shit-filled metal box and fired into the sun. This is only ever said when the author really means, "I don't think he should have a different opinion from mine." I guarantee that if Stuart had written a piece feverishly wanking all over MS3 and slating 7, not one single of the petulant toss-sticks bleating about "objectivity" would have said a word. Would you? It's odd how complaints about subjectivity magically go away when they concur with the position. A thousand flowers to anyone honest enough to admit it.

And those who just obsessively focus on the bit where you get told you're being stupid, and ignore the 95% of the post where the person asks you to make reasonable arguments for claims: you're being stupid. Ooh, how gleefully self-referential.

What I suggest, and I suggest this like a man suggests to the wind that it write a book about kittens, is that those so excitedly leaping in to get cross go back and read the original post and notice where Bobak was being extremely offensive. It's not the same kind of offensive as being told to fuck off. It's a worse, more insidious, more damaging kind.


And now he's madly calling Stuart a racist! What a charmer.

With all possible respect.

[Sam Madeupname]

KanYozakura, are you really criticising me for being able to write without sounding like an oaf?

That's pretty sad.

[Metal Slugnuts]

What I suggest, and I suggest this like a man suggests to the wind that it write a book about kittens, is that those so excitedly leaping in to get cross go back and read the original post and notice where Bobak was being extremely offensive. It's not the same kind of offensive as being told to fuck off. It's a worse, more insidious, more damaging kind.

Man, am I glad you posted this again.

You're exactly right Sam: being told to "fuck off" is completely different from being criticized about poor quality work. Professional criticism isn't insidious or damaging...it means that you didn't do your profession any credit and here's why. It's only "insidious" and "damaging" if you're a crybaby manchild who takes all criticism as personal criticism instead of fixing your shoddy work.

[lithy]

Hm, if you would spend more than 5 minutes with your ethnographical study of Neo-Geo.com forumites, you would know that Metal Slug 3 is probably the most polarizing game in the series.

To me, if it weren't for how truly God awful the follow ups were, 3 would be dead last in my book. For other people, it is an epic masterpiece.

Besides all this anyway, half the people in here if not more have not even read the article and are withholding judgement, but due to the way this guy came in here to "defend" his work, I (and probably others) will not really go out and find this magazine in an effort to prove him right.

[Deuce]

For instance, you of course did not address my point at all. You said that Bobak could have expressed himself better, call him a name, but you do not say whether you level the same criticisms against him as you do Stuart. Instead, impressively, you state that you don't care. Which, well, is obviously an enormous cop-out, but an expected one. You obfuscated, and avoided.
Why would I level the same criticism at Bobak? He's not a "professional games journalist," nor do I expect him to be. He is, for all intents and purposes, a layperson. He is not representative of a "respected publication." You wanted honesty, and I gave you honesty. I don't particularly care what Bobak says or does. It's of no concern to me. He, like the blinding majority of the human race, could die in the next twelve seconds and it would have no impact on me or my life whatsoever.


I think you're muddling two definitions of "professional", but I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose to be facetious, or if you're genuinely confused. A teacher is considered a "professional" whether they behave in a manner deemed unprofessional or not.
And you're being deliberately obtuse, as well. One can be a professional writer and still not "be professional." There's an article there that makes all the difference in the world. Stuart claimed to be a "professional," in that he wrote about games for a living, and that somehow made him better, or at least, more of an authority in this context. His behavior today has shown that, regardless of who's signing his paychecks, he's highly unprofessional, regardless of what he may claim... in addition to being a poor writer, if his posts are any indication.


I'm far too clever and erudite.
And here's where I suspect you're just having me on. Your argument about hypocrisy is specious, at best. A feeble defense of immature behavior, at worst.

As for the screen name, the word has multiple meanings... the one you choose to associate only tells me that, for all your vocabulary, you're just as immature as anyone else who takes the easy bait.


Anyone who starts blabbering on about how something should be "objective" should be sealed in a shit-filled metal box and fired into the sun.
Very eloquent. This really supports your argument.


Would you? It's odd how complaints about subjectivity magically go away when they concur with the position. A thousand flowers to anyone honest enough to admit it.
Give me my flowers. But seriously, you should know well enough that to call what is basically a linked batch of reviews "definitive" is, at best, inaccurate. Again, I don't care about the series itself. I've never even played the games past 3, which I played only a few minutes of. But this isn't about the games anymore. It's really just about Stuart being an immature jerkoff, when someone his age really should know better.

[Sam Madeupname]

KanYozakura - No sweetiepie, if what Lord Bobak had done was criticise Stuart's article based on what he'd written, of course it wouldn't be insidious and damaging. But he didn't do that. He made statements that the article was written without proper research, was unprofessional, and constantly suggested that the piece was dishonest. Statements that appear to be wholly untrue.

Do fuck off.

[lithy]

Statements that appear to be wholly untrue.

Based on what evidence?

In any case, quit replying to Kan, he's a retard, no one here really likes him. He's king of the forum bandwagon.

[Metal Slugnuts]

KanYozakura - No sweetiepie, if what Lord Bobak had done was criticise Stuart's article based on what he'd written, of course it wouldn't be insidious and damaging. But he didn't do that. He made statements that the article was written without proper research, was unprofessional, and constantly suggested that the piece was dishonest. Statements that appear to be wholly untrue.

Do fuck off.

But he didn't do proper research, the piece was dishonest, and judging by his conduct on these forums, Stuart is as unprofessional as they come. :)

[GunstarHero]

KanYozakura, are you really criticising me for being able to write without sounding like an oaf?

That's pretty sad.

For the record:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/RockyBalboa_06/bladesling.jpg

[Sam Madeupname]

And you're being deliberately obtuse, as well. One can be a professional writer and still not "be professional." There's an article there that makes all the difference in the world. Stuart claimed to be a "professional," in that he wrote about games for a living, and that somehow made him better, or at least, more of an authority in this context. His behavior today has shown that, regardless of who's signing his paychecks, he's highly unprofessional, regardless of what he may claim... in addition to being a poor writer, if his posts are any indication.

You did it again! You explained the two different meanings, and then you conflated them again! Good heavens, I don't even want to defend Stuart - he is more than capable of doing that himself. I just want to have an argument on a forum for an evening. His being a writer for his profession is not altered by his being unprofessional! He explained, as you say, that he's a professional writer (writing is his profession) and you then once more say that his behaviour alters that! I haven't seen him claim that his conduct isn't unprofessional anywhere, so what claims is it regardless of?

Also, I really haven't seen anything he's written in this thread that demonstrates he's a poor writer. He seems quite capable of putting together a decent sentence, and he's made me laugh with his timing a few times.



And here's where I suspect you're just having me on. Your argument is specious, at best.

My argument about hypocrisy is not specious at all - I think it's pretty flawless. But your simply calling it specious and not stating why might more deserve the word. I don't think you can refute my point that hypocrisy requires him to have at least said that people shouldn't be insulting. And my "stupid" analogy was really very good. I think you should at least compliment me on how cleverly I called you stupid.


As for the screen name, the word has multiple meanings... the one you choose to associate only tells me that, for all your vocabulary, you're just as immature as anyone else who takes the easy bait.

I'm quite astonishingly immature. And let's be fair, I only threw the "aptly named" in there as a quick aside. I might have been referring to how you're very much like a tennis match at 40-40... No, you're right, I could only have meant poo.

Pee poo bum willy.

[Sam Madeupname]

Based on what evidence?

In any case, quit replying to Kan, he's a retard, no one here really likes him. He's king of the forum bandwagon.
I was basing it on the evidence from the editor of Retro Gamer, mostly. And then quite a hell of a lot on how Bobak has still not managed to point out a factual error in the article, but rather blathered on about the Micro GEN X60 -D version getting seven too few words or something.

I've not read the article, because I think Metal Slug is {please choose what would most offend: RUBBISH/FOR GIRLS/MADE OF WEE/TOO DIFFICULT/SO OLD/NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS (game you like less)}.

Hugs.

[Steve]

Holy shit, 22 people (10 guests) viewing this page. I never seen so much interest/action in one thread before. This is truly NG.com at its best AND worst, lol.

And damn @ Bobak's reply top of this page. LOL. I only read half of it, but the half I read he is well articulated.

Stu, if I were you I'd cut my losses short and bow out here. I hope you're not one of those "gotta have the last word/say" kind of guys, because seriously, you have painted a pretty nasty picture of yourself, and by association, TO A SMALL DEGREE, the magazine itself in which you are a regular contributor (freelancer or not, there's still a code of honor you should professionally uphold).

This is one of those topics that could destroy a writer's reputation... hopefully not Retro Gamer magazine itself, but with so many guests viewing it, and given the fact that it's now a part of NG history... this could be one of those legendary threads passed on and discussed weeks, months, even years from now whenever RG Mag or Stuart Campbell the writer is brought up. I have personally never seen, first-hand, a "professional" react so IMMATURELY and unprofessionally in such a public manner as this over and over again (in this case, post after post). It's rather baffling when you think about it! 41 years old? Seems more like 14, to be frank.

[lithy]

I was basing it on the evidence from the editor of Retro Gamer, mostly. And then quite a hell of a lot on how Bobak has still not managed to point out a factual error in the article, but rather blathered on about the Micro GEN X60 -D version getting seven too few words or something.

I've not read the article, because I think Metal Slug is {please choose what would most offend: RUBBISH/FOR GIRLS/MADE OF WEE/TOO DIFFICULT/SO OLD/NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS (game you like less)}.

Hugs.

How about we start with the fact that Stuart claimed there was a zombie mode in Metal Slug 2 for a start of alleged factual problems? We could continue on and say that the editor made a note that Stuart is thorough with his research and suggests that he never misses an iteration of a game. So the Saturn and MVS omissions might need to get covered.

You are quite amusing with your cute sign-offs and intent to rile everyone up, but honestly some of us are looking for a decent conversation. Something which the handful of carryovers from the RG board have yet to provide. Instead we just get circular reasoning and a dumbstruck look when Deuce suggests that you can be a professional in the sense that you get paid for your work and at the same time be ridiculously unprofessional in your demeanor.

[Sam Madeupname]

How about we start with the fact that Stuart claimed there was a zombie mode in Metal Slug 2 for a start of alleged factual problems? We could continue on and say that the editor made a note that Stuart is thorough with his research and suggests that he never misses an iteration of a game. So the Saturn and MVS omissions might need to get covered.

You are quite amusing with your cute sign-offs and intent to rile everyone up, but honestly some of us are looking for a decent conversation. Something which the handful of carryovers from the RG board have yet to provide. Instead we just get circular reasoning and a dumbstruck look when Deuce suggests that you can be a professional in the sense that you get paid for your work and at the same time be ridiculously unprofessional in your demeanor.
Aw, you called me cute : )

I can go to bed happy.

[lithy]

Aw, you called me cute : )

I can go to bed happy.

Skipped right over the entire first paragraph I see.

Good riddance.

[Sam Madeupname]

Skipped right over the entire first paragraph I see.

Good riddance.
I'm a bit stumped about what you want me to say. I've not read the article and don't know about the games. I was just poking at things.

Sorry to have been a bother.

[Deuce]

I know you're just trolling at this point, so I'll be done after this. I've got more enjoyable things to do.


His being a writer for his profession is not altered by his being unprofessional! He explained, as you say, that he's a professional writer (writing is his profession) and you then once more say that his behaviour alters that!
Nowhere did I state that his behavior changed his vocation. He implied that his vocation meant his opinion was somehow worth more than that of anyone else on the forum. My point is that his behavior diminishes the value of anything he says beyond any clout he might gain from having a job with a game magazine. Did I word that clearly enough for you to comprehend?


He seems quite capable of putting together a decent sentence, and he's made me laugh with his timing a few times.
"Comprehensible" and "decent" are two vastly different terms in the given context. He can string together a sequence of words well enough to convey his meaning, but he doesn't do so with any degree of eloquence, wit or charm... the hallmarks of what typically defines a "good writer."


I think you should at least compliment me on how cleverly I called you stupid.
Yes, you quite cleverly called your intellectual superior "stupid."


I'm quite astonishingly immature.
It shows. You have fun under your bridge.

[RevStu]

But he didn't do proper research, the piece was dishonest,

Seriously, fuck you. Really. Fuck you and your mother. There is NOT ONE MISTAKE in the feature, nor a single meaningful omission, and repeating your cowardly lies from behind a cloak of anonymity can't change that. You can keep calling a horse a pig all you want, it still won't taste of bacon.

[lithy]

Seriously, fuck you. Really. Fuck you and your mother. There is NOT ONE MISTAKE in the feature, nor a single meaningful omission, and repeating your cowardly lies from behind a cloak of anonymity can't change that. You can keep calling a horse a pig all you want, it still won't taste of bacon.

Did you refer to mummy mode as zombie mode in the piece?

[RevStu]

How about we start with the fact that Stuart claimed there was a zombie mode in Metal Slug 2 for a start of alleged factual problems?

There is. If you wrap a zombie in bandages it's still a fucking zombie. Where is the zombie dress code written, please?

[RevStu]

Must be the sort of Englishman who uses the term “Paki” in everyday conversation,

Wow. I point out that you're a rude, ignorant arsehole who doesn't know what he's talking about and now I'm a racist? Awesome.

:lol:

[lithy]

There is. If you wrap a zombie in bandages it's still a fucking zombie. Where is the zombie dress code written, please?

You're dense aren't you. Every time you get called on something you ask for a owner's manual, a dictionary, a guide, a step-by-step instruction book.

You know damn well the difference between a zombie and a mummy. If you'd like you can just go ahead and say, yes there was a minor mistake in my article, I referred to a certain section of Mission 2 in Metal Slug 2 as having a zombie mode when in fact they are mummies.

Instead you're going to just call me a fuckwit and use your grand vocabularly (which you seem perfectly capable of using correctly as opposed to zombie vs. mummy) in an attempt to one-up me. I'll be most impressed if you don't.

[RevStu]

When I wrote columns, I was separate from the newsroom. The reason is obvious:

On that, at least, we can agree.

I'm off to bed now, because I'm stunned into a stupor at the fact that you're allegedly a lawyer, albeit a lawyer who can't use or interpret English properly. No wonder American law is so fucked it doesn't think tying someone down and trying to drown them counts as torture.

[RevStu]

This is one of those topics that could destroy a writer's reputation...

At least I can go to bed having had a good laugh, though.

[Deuce]

There is. If you wrap a zombie in bandages it's still a fucking zombie.

Obviously, you're not big on researching your movie monsters. There are two kinds of zombie: the voodoo priest-slave type, and the undead flesh-eating type.

The things that eat brains and talk aren't zombies. They're pale pretenders to the Romero throne.

[Mayhem]

Stu, if I were you I'd cut my losses short and bow out here. I hope you're not one of those "gotta have the last word/say" kind of guys, because seriously, you have painted a pretty nasty picture of yourself, and by association, TO A SMALL DEGREE, the magazine itself in which you are a regular contributor (freelancer or not, there's still a code of honor you should professionally uphold).

He is, so good luck. Trying to convince him he's lost an argument is like General Custer believing he can still win in the face of a tribe of Native Americans.

Sure, we've not seen eye to eye on many things over the years (and I've been writing as long as he has btw). A few things we have. Either way, you can't accuse him of not putting in the time and effort to produce his articles via both the actual gamesplaying and the writing sides. Whether you agree with the content is a different matter...

[zer0hue]

Bobak – Stuart Campbell does not write to the accord of your every wish and whim. This does not make his writing poor, merely incongruous with your demands.

Deuce – Your tedious fixation on professionalism and objectivity indicates a naive view of humanity. No person is ever objective or professional – they are only impersonal or domesticated.

Stuart - I admire your moxie. You swing at all commers like a sloshed octopus. You’re also one of only two gaming journalists worth reading. That doesn’t mean you’re not a spotted dick at times.

Sam – Wins the thread with an insult that will not be equaled. “I think you should at least compliment me on how cleverly I called you stupid.”



Also, I have no idea why I was mentioned in this thread. I make it a point not to contribute anything relevant to this forum.

[Abasuto]

Stu was a writer with a strong rep,

but Neo-Geo.Com tore him down.

No worries mate, you're not the first,

nor the last.

[LoneSage]

Let’s be clear that I raised the suspicion that Mr. Campbell didn’t use any home/MVS carts in his “research”, and this dismissal of the massive slowdown in 2 only reinforces that. I think any lay gamer would notice it pretty quick –especially if you look back to when it first arrived, costing $200+ on a $600+ video game system. Slowdown was huge, and relevant to the time, and something that was missed in poor research and… poor writing.

This.

The title screen, where the letters that form Metal Slug 2 are pounding on the background, is laden with slowdown. The title screen! Anyone with half a brain realizes the slowdown is some of the worst in any game, and to say that it's comparable to everything else of that era is not an opinion, but flat-out wrong.

Pretty obvious the guy emulated it or played the Anthology version.

[Reality Check]

If you wrap a zombie in bandages it's still a fucking zombie.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Kiselgof]

Stuart - I admire your moxie. You swing at all commers like a sloshed octopus. You’re also one of only two gaming journalists worth reading.

Bummer, only 12 sentences. I was hoping this thread would reach epic best-of proportions.

[Vectorman0]

I love RevStu's attempt to lessen the importance of his mixing up both the mummies from MS2 and zombies from MS3. He's so childish he can't own up to his mistake/factual error after challenging people to find one.

[Deuce]

I make it a point not to contribute anything relevant to this forum.

So we see.

[tony starks]

People still read printed magazines? awesome.

I thought the same thing :lolz:

Stuart Campbell huh, wow.

Starks out.

[Mike Shagohod]

THIS THREAD IS...

http://www.imageflea.com/pics/0905/hwgvjjcf.png

:oh_no:

[Deuce]

Shit under fire?

[Koopa64]

Stuart is one of the most obstinate people I have EVER seen on the Internet... :oh_no:

Like honestly, he must have been living his entire life as a lie if he doesn't realize he's been beaten...

But you know, if he was still posting in this topic, there's just one thing I'd like to ask him.

What target does The Definitive aim for?

By that, I mean he referred that anyone who bashed him said they didn't understand the purpose of The Definitive, but he never mentioned what that was.

With that said, he'll still call me an idiot, just like everyone else in this topic... Stuart really gives Europeans a bad name... :oh_no:

[zer0hue]

So we see.

Yuk, yuk.

You have an exquisite talent at turning overt self-deprecation into a boring insult.

Never let that rapier wit of yours dull away.

[Mike Shagohod]

Shit under fire?

Yep, you guessed right. That's exactly what this whole fiasco is.

And to think I've been praising "Retro Gamer" for about a year now
and is the only magazine I pay $11.75USD for at Barnes & Noble
when I can remember to do so.

:oh_no:

I see both point being made here, including your own Deuce, but
this is truly beating a dead horse at this point. I could probably write
out "the history of SNK" in my jizz easier than it will be to rectify this
shit.

[Deuce]

You have an exquisite talent at turning overt self-deprecation into a boring insult.
It's all you've earned.


I could probably write
out "the history of SNK" in my jizz easier than it will be to rectify this
shit.

Possibly... but will it smell as bad?

[Ancient Flounder]

There is. If you wrap a zombie in bandages it's still a fucking zombie. Where is the zombie dress code written, please?

The fact that you think they are synonymous should get you beaten with the rotted corpse of Lucio Fulci. Will be the most good he's ever done, too.

[Koopa64]

The fact that you think they are synonymous should get you beaten with the rotted corpse of Lucio Fulci. Will be the most good he's ever done, too.

It makes you wonder what he actually did in those many years of video game journalism, to not have learned the difference between a zombie and a mummy. Guess pop culture wasn't one of the courses he took way back when...

[Sexual Instinct]

http://www.gsarchives.net/neogeo/metal_slug_3/sprites/animated/MarcoZombie_walk.gif

[LoneSage]

lol professional video game writer

[Abasuto]

It makes you wonder what he actually did in those many years of video game journalism.

He wrote about games more than he played them.

[kazuo]

Seriously, fuck you. Really. Fuck you and your mother. There is NOT ONE MISTAKE in the feature, nor a single meaningful omission, and repeating your cowardly lies from behind a cloak of anonymity can't change that. You can keep calling a horse a pig all you want, it still won't taste of bacon.

This guy is a staff writer for Retro Gamer?

REALLY?

It is absolutely astounding that he carries himself in this manner on a PUBLIC FORUM, and, moreso, that his boss is (most likely, given his participation in the thread) aware of it and has (probably) done nothing about it.

Absolutely astounding. I don't think I'll be buying anymore issues of Retro Gamer in the future.. I could have honestly cared less about the "quality" of the article in question, but anyone who would employ a grown man that carries himself in such a fashion will not get a penny from me.

It is completely unprofessional and shameful.

[Zenimus]

You know damn well the difference between a zombie and a mummy.

:lol:

The fact that this sentence actually came up in a discussion over someone's journalistic merits is hilarious.

[Mayhem]

This guy is a staff writer for Retro Gamer?

No, Stu is a freelancer. Like I am also. RG has (to my knowledge) currently two permanent members of staff assigned to it, and Darran is one of them; the rest of the content is written by us hired hacks.

[RevStu]

:lol:

The fact that this sentence actually came up in a discussion over someone's journalistic merits is hilarious.

Mm. Just because this particular aspect of the debate is so extraordinarily funny, can anyone tell me the title of a mummy film in which coming into contact with the bodily fluids of the mummy transmits the condition of mummification to the victim?

And while we're here, can anyone tell me the name of a zombie movie in which the undead can be returned to normal human status by consuming a potion?

Take as long as you like.

:lolz:

[RevStu]

Stuart - I admire your moxie. You swing at all commers like a sloshed octopus. You’re also one of only two gaming journalists worth reading. That doesn’t mean you’re not a spotted dick at times.

Why thank you. We are, my friend, ALL spotted dicks at times. But the comparison to a drunk, belligerent octopus is one I shall cherish as the compliment it is.

[Ancient Flounder]

Mm. Just because this particular aspect of the debate is so extraordinarily funny, can anyone tell me the title of a mummy film in which coming into contact with the bodily fluids of the mummy transmits the condition of mummification to the victim?

And while we're here, can anyone tell me the name of a zombie movie in which the undead can be returned to normal human status by consuming a potion?

Take as long as you like.

:lolz:

This is a rather poor attempt at humor, isn't it?

[Duddyroar]

This is a rather poor attempt at humor, isn't it?

You mean humour, of course.

[Ancient Flounder]

You mean humour, of course.

Either or. I'm not picky about that.

[Tyrannosatan]

I had to re-register here just because of this thread.
Stu you're teh shit! :D this is called being professional! Stomp your feet on the ground and take the ball home! They're not worthy :lolz:

[RevStu]

This is a rather poor attempt at humor, isn't it?

Nope. Titles, please.

Incidentally, if you're such a big-shot journalism hero, why are you scared to use your real name?

[SIXPACK]

On that, at least, we can agree.

I'm off to bed now, because I'm stunned into a stupor at the fact that you're allegedly a lawyer, albeit a lawyer who can't use or interpret English properly. No wonder American law is so fucked it doesn't think tying someone down and trying to drown them counts as torture.

This is just plain stupidity!

[Ancient Flounder]

Nope. Titles, please.

Incidentally, if you're such a big-shot journalism hero, why are you scared to use your real name?

Wow, I'm a journalism hero? Bobak, can I get that as a custom handle? That would be terrific.

I'm sure you can find my name somewhere, since you have enough time to play teh ROMz for 'research' and troll in various forums. Bedtime for me, anyways. Happy hunting!

[Professor Denim]

thanks to this asshole i´ll never look to Retrogamer in the same way.

[lithy]

Mm. Just because this particular aspect of the debate is so extraordinarily funny, can anyone tell me the title of a mummy film in which coming into contact with the bodily fluids of the mummy transmits the condition of mummification to the victim?

And while we're here, can anyone tell me the name of a zombie movie in which the undead can be returned to normal human status by consuming a potion?

Take as long as you like.

:lolz:

Your source material is movies now? So anything that happens in video games has to have happened in a movie first?

Got it.

Since you wrote an opinion piece where you admittedly included few facts, maybe you should go ahead and add intuition to your thought processes. There is not a person in the world other than you that thinks they are zombies.

Anyone have an actual home cart copy of Metal Slug 2 that could tell me if it is in the instruction manual? I imagine it is.

[Late]

This Stu guy is a tool of chimpian stature, christ.

[RevStu]

There is not a person in the world other than you that thinks they are zombies.

Please link to your survey data, thanks.

[lithy]

Please link to your survey data, thanks.

So since I concede that they are indeed bandage wrapped zombies. When in recorded history have you seen a bandage wrapped zombie that can be killed by another bandage wrapped zombie with additional contact from their expelled fluids?

I await your bibliography.

[SIXPACK]

Oh, and by the way:



Don't tell me what I mean, you rude, ignorant, illiterate, arrogant, fucking cunt.

Is this how a non-illiterate, non-arrogant, professional journalist talks?
Instead of coming here defend your article like an adult , you act like a rebel teenager who is trying to prove he´s a bad motherfucker. Dont give me an excuse like "they started it"! Introducing yourself with "Hello idiots" ??? Your whole attitude here really undermines your credibility.
I just wonder what makes you such a Metal Slug connoisseur....

[cools]

RevStu

Out of everything I've read that you've written, this thread is by far the most entertaining of the lot, and I since I feel it's such a massive shame you're doing this unpaid I'm off to subscribe to WoS again.

(All the other stuff was great too, this is just the sugar on the cherry on the icing on the cake)

I just hope the thread doesn't get locked, because this could go on for weeks. :D

[RevStu]

Is this how a non-illiterate, non-arrogant, professional journalist talks?
No idea. Do you know any? Maybe we could ask them.

[RevStu]

So since I concede that they are indeed bandage wrapped zombies. When in recorded history have you seen a bandage wrapped zombie that can be killed by another bandage wrapped zombie with additional contact from their expelled fluids?

I await your bibliography.

Hey, I'm not the one claiming to be a zombie expert. My area of speciality is videogames.

[lithy]

Hey, I'm not the one claiming to be a zombie expert. My area of speciality is videogames.

If this is what snarky is, no wonder kern wants to kill himself.

They are mummies and I'm just not sure why you can't wrap your head around that.

What will it take? If the instruction book for the game calls it mummy mode will you concede the point?

Probably not, since you know you're wrong but you'll posture until the end of time, it appears to be what makes your followers fans. I hope they are more fans like patrons of a freak show are fans, but I somehow doubt it.

Maybe we need to get your editor back in here because he did say if we find any factual errors in the article to let him know. If he contends that they are just bandaged zombies then I guess I'll just chalk up my experience with the British as well-spoken, but remarkably stupid.

[DEL]

Great Thread! A really good read. Keep Going:multi_co:

[RevStu]

They are mummies and I'm just not sure why you can't wrap your head around that.


I concede that they are indeed bandage wrapped zombies

Make your mind up, dear.

[lithy]

Make your mind up, dear.

It was sarcasm you daft twit.

[Sam Madeupname]

Gosh, it's difficult to admit it, but I've had no choice but to change my mind. How could I not under the weight of intellect put forth by everyone involved in this thread?

I realise now it's definitely true that because a man did some swears, he can't know anything about old games. It sounds incongruous at first, possibly even downright moronic, but I'm going to prove this with an experiment:


I am quite knowledgeable about the early text parser adventures from Sierra in the early 90s.

SHIT COCKS BUM FARTS FUCK NIPPLE CUNTPLOPS

Sierra? Didn't they publish Half-Life? I like colours.

It's enough to convince me.

I'm also now completely turned around about the professional thing. Again it seemed such a mind-wobblingly stupid position to take, but then I carried out my own research, speaking to a friendly fireman.


Me: Hello Mr Fireman, does your job mean you are considered to be a "professional"?
Mr Fireman: Why hello Sam. Yes it does.
Me: I dare you to say some swears.
Mr Fireman: As a fireman, and thus someone who has gone through complex hazing rituals, I am unable to back down from a dare. "Shitting fucksticks, dicks in a ditch!"
Mr Chief Fireman: That was not professional! All the fires you've ever put out have burst back into flame! You're fired!

Deary me. What a to-do.

So I'm here to say I'm sorry for my previous idiotic arguments to the contrary. I've sure learned a thing or two from the Neo Geo Brain Trust, and no mistake.

Yours graciously.

[lithy]

It's like they memorized a dictionary but the only thing they could learn in the art of debate were logical fallacies!

[RevStu]

It was sarcasm you daft twit.

No WAY! Really? Oh man!

(I've never heard of a mummy in any form of culture anywhere ever that had the power to instantly turn someone else into a mummy. You know what mythical creatures that's a core characteristic of, though? Zombies. I think you'll find that's conclusive. Honestly, you're such an idiot - all a zombie has to do to get past you is put on a simple disguise. God help your family when the Zombie Apocalypse arrives, that's all I can say.)

[Sam Madeupname]

It's like they memorized a dictionary but the only thing they could learn in the art of debate were logical fallacies!
im sory lithy. i not do dem word finks proper no more cos it make u all fritened.

mayb if u not scared of da wrds u rply 2 sumfink wot ppl sed.

[lithy]

(I've never heard of a mummy in any form of culture anywhere ever that had the power to instantly turn someone else into a mummy. You know what mythical creatures that's a core characteristic of, though? Zombies. I think you'll find that's conclusive. Honestly, you're such an idiot - all a zombie has to do to get past you is put on a simple disguise. God help your family when the Zombie Apocalypse arrives, that's all I can say.)

And now you're just making an argument for argument's sake.

Do I need to go back and review all of your writings? I hope I don't find anything crazy and unrealistic in there, like you know, might not happen in real life but does in a video game.

They are mummies and in the context of the game, they turn you into a mummy with their breath (if you suck enough to actually get hit) and then with another breath they kill you. Sorry, it isn't your game or your place to rename or rework these game elements. Just like the argument over the 'affected spellings' at the other site. You're just obstinately defensive of your work to an embarrasing fault.

So I ask you again, in the 3rd game, how is it that the zombies can kill another zombie with their vomit? Have you ever heard of that in all you vast years of the study of mythology?

[Sam Madeupname]

(lithy - just out of interest, are you a bit embarrassed that your attempt to demonstrate gross factual errors in the original article has been reduced to your desperately trying to get Stuart to admit that zombies and mummys are marginally different? I mean, from my perspective it seems like the sort of thing that should make you feel really very silly.)

[RevStu]

So I ask you again, in the 3rd game, how is it that the zombies can kill another zombie with their vomit? Have you ever heard of that in all you vast years of the study of mythology?

You appear to have misheard my full and frank confession not to be a zombie expert.

Is this really all you've got left to justify/defend the vile lies and unfounded personal attacks that started this thread, by the way? Pedantic, deranged hairsplitting over a definition of an imaginary creature? I mean, I'm quite happy to carry on debating the undead just for the chuckles, but it seems a bit, y'know, weak as justification for a hate campaign and international sales boycott.

[kernow]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y278/parple/kingcatal3.jpg

[lithy]

im sory lithy. i not do dem word finks proper no more cos it make u all fritened.

mayb if u not scared of da wrds u rply 2 sumfink wot ppl sed.

What is your stake in this again? Avid Retro Gamer reader? Someone justifying paying for content on a video game website? Ethnographer? General rabble rouser?

Here is your response. What you posted in all of your sarcasm, was an over simplification of the arguments so far.

The first part. No one has ever said that he doesn't know anything about games BECAUSE he curses. People have suggested and I would tend to agree with that he appears to have done a poor job of research for this piece and then instead of defending it with tact and factual backup for what he said he launches into multiple tirades against anyone who so much as asks why he wrote X. Cursing to back up your argument is a sure fire way to appear dimwitted.

I hope he's never written a thesis that he had to defend.

The second part. Again no one has suggested that because of his cursing he is no longer a professionally paid freelance video game writer. Instead, they've rightfully suggested that in all professions there is a certain sense of decency expected when representing your work or your employer. If your rough and tumble fireman just went off on a rant directed at a 5 year old parade goer like your buddy Stuart here he's like to get at least a talk. Meanwhile, in the middle of a fire, cursing is likely to be acceptable. Likewise, a curse in passing in Stuart's article would have gone completely unnoticed. i.e. "Metal Slug 3 is shit" or "Q: Why can't I keep from getting hit by these fucking zombies? A: I suck at these games." But by coming in here to defend his work and represent both himself and Retro Gamer (despite what he thinks about that he is) with rant after rant has made him appear to be quite unprofessional in his demeanor.

[lithy]

(lithy - just out of interest, are you a bit embarrassed that your attempt to demonstrate gross factual errors in the original article has been reduced to your desperately trying to get Stuart to admit that zombies and mummys are marginally different? I mean, from my perspective it seems like the sort of thing that should make you feel really very silly.)

I wasn't challenged to point out gross factual errors in his work. I was challenged to find a SINGLE factual error.

The content is of no concern to me, like I have stated before, I have not read the article.

Desperate? You've got Stuart over here continuing to backpedal into his "I'm not a zombie expert" routine. He refuses to give a straight answer to this question:

If it says mummy in the instruction book, will you concede that you made a minor error in your article?

[TonK]

All I have to, or care to add:

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/stu.jpg

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mckids.jpg

[SIXPACK]

No idea. Do you know any? Maybe we could ask them.

Actually i dont know any PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST who barks like a cheap whore on crack.

[Sam Madeupname]

What is your stake in this again? Avid Retro Gamer reader? Someone justifying paying for content on a video game website? Ethnographer? General rabble rouser?

Debonair champion. That's my role. I've never read Retro Gamer because it's my firm belief that we should just let bygones be bygones. I'm not sure what I could have paid for on a gaming site that needs justifying by arguing on a forum.


The first part. No one has ever said that he doesn't know anything about games BECAUSE he curses. People have suggested and I would tend to agree with that he appears to have done a poor job of research for this piece and then instead of defending it with tact and factual backup for what he said he launches into multiple tirades against anyone who so much as asks why he wrote X. Cursing to back up your argument is a sure fire way to appear dimwitted.

See, but this is your problem. On one side you're claiming the research for the article is poor (a very serious accusation against the author's professionalism) and on the other you're having a hissyfit over what to call the undead creatures in one bit of one game. It doesn't really match up, does it? Constantly restating that the original article was at fault without having given an example that anyone could take seriously seems an awful lot worse than cursing. To me, at least. But then I'm not a Victorian lady in a complicated petticoat.


The second part. Again no one has suggested that because of his cursing he is no longer a professionally paid freelance video game writer. Instead, they've rightfully suggested that in all professions there is a certain sense of decency expected when representing your work or your employer... But by coming in here to defend his work and represent both himself and Retro Gamer (despite what he thinks about that he is) with rant after rant has made him appear to be quite unprofessional in his demeanor.

Yes, it did take Deuce about five goes before he managed to get his professionalism argument right, didn't it? The problem is, your beliefs about how someone who writes about videogames (for hundreds of years considered the most noble and gentrified of professions) should behave in public are entirely in your own head.

I'm not sure he did come here to defend his work. I think he came here to call Bobak a dick. I think perhaps the cause of most people's frustration here is that they haven't managed to badger and bully Stu into defending the original article, presumably because no one has yet managed to level an accusation that requires a defence. Oh, apart from your rapier mummy/zombie attack. It'll be interesting to see if Retro Gamer has to close down after you spotted that.

Gloriously yours.

[RevStu]

I wasn't challenged to point out gross factual errors in his work. I was challenged to find a SINGLE factual error.

Indeed. And as yet you haven't. The "mummies" exhibit a primary characteristic consistent with zombies, not mummies (even mummies in fiction), and which is also consistent with the "zombies" in MS3. Is a zombie in a football shirt a footballer?

Really, you're backing a loser anyway in trying to prove a factual error about something that isn't factual. Do better, or have the courtesy and decency to stop spouting complete bollocks about "a poor job of research".

I mean, what's the actual point you're flailing around trying to make? That I don't know what a mummy looks like? Believe it or not, I'm familiar with the famous image of a being wrapped in bandages. But if it walks like a zombie and acts like a zombie, it's a fucking zombie, no matter what its fashion sense might be.

[RevStu]

Actually i dont know any PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST who barks like a cheap whore on crack.

I bow to your superior experience of cheap whores on crack.

[lithy]

Indeed. And as yet you haven't. The "mummies" exhibit a primary characteristic consistent with zombies, not mummies (even mummies in fiction), and which is also consistent with the "zombies" in MS3. Is a zombie in a football shirt a footballer?

Really, you're backing a loser anyway in trying to prove a factual error about something that isn't factual. Do better, or have the courtesy and decency to stop spouting complete bollocks about "a poor job of research".

I mean, what's the actual point you're flailing around trying to make? That I don't know what a mummy looks like? Believe it or not, I'm familiar with the famous image of a being wrapped in bandages. But if it walks like a zombie and acts like a zombie, it's a fucking zombie, no matter what its fashion sense might be.


If it says mummy in the instruction book, will you concede that you made a minor error in your article?

Let's try again. Simple theoretical question. Yes or no?

[TonK]

I bow to your superior experience of cheap whores on crack.

Better than your superior experience of Kid 'n Play movies, ugly.

I have a little time to kill, so lets share our frustrations?

You first!

(Oh, you're the black, portly child by the way.)

[RevStu]

I'm sure you can find my name somewhere,
That would require me to give a shit who you are. If you're too embarrassed to put your real name to your comments, that tells me all I need or wish to know.

[RevStu]

Better than your superior experience of Kid 'n Play movies, ugly.

I have a little time to kill, so lets share our frustrations?

You first!

You've lost me, I'm afraid. Is this a black thing? Apparently I'm a racist because I can't tell a zombie from a mummy, so that might be a productive area for insults.

[lithy]

If it says mummy in the instruction book, will you concede that you made a minor error in your article?

Don't forget me!

[Sam Madeupname]

Let's try again. Simple theoretical question. Yes or no?

Tee hee - and you got flustered when I said "desperate".

It was obvious from your first post in the thread that your intention was to be malicious. Now as you're still desperately trying to score a pedantic semantic point, I again wonder what your agenda is? You've not read the article, but you feel qualified to make absolute statements about its quality. Then when you're asked to back this up you excuse yourself by restating that you've not read it. Then you go on about the mummy again.

What's your plan? Obviously Stuart has stated he doesn't care whether they're called mummies or zombies, since they behave like zombies, so he talked about them as zombies. But were he to concede to your heffalump trap, what then? He says "Yes, it was a minor error," do you then leap in and shout, "A-HA! The proof at last that you failed to do proper research for your article!" Because it will make you look a bit of a prat. Especially since all this ridiculous side-debate has served to do is highlight that Stu definitely did play the section of the game involved, thus rather undermining that dickwad Bobak's original claims.

What are you up to, slime beast?

[TonK]

You've lost me, I'm afraid. Is this a black thing? Apparently I'm a racist because I can't tell a zombie from a mummy, so that might be a productive area for insults.

No insults.

You seem very distraught about people nitpicking your pathetic journalism.

Also, your age might also have some sort of impact on your seething anger towards this online community.

You don't seem happy.

Do you have some sort of reputation to uphold with all of your limey buddies by acting like a complete, uneducated degenerate?

I'm familiar with a few journalists - most of them would have ignored Bobak's thorough response to your inadequate work.

It seems like you're a well respected writer on your side of the pond.

Might I ask how you became so ornery in your responses to criticism?

[RevStu]

Oh, and by the by:


When in recorded history have you seen a bandage wrapped zombie that can be killed by another bandage wrapped zombie with additional contact from their expelled fluids?

Rather shot your own argument in the bollocks with that one, old bean. After all, in MS3 the "zombies" kill you if they get body fluids on you when you're already a zombie, just like the "mummies" do in MS2. So by your logic, since zombies don't do that, the "zombies" in MS3 aren't actually zombies either, which blows your entire debating position to pieces.

Man, I sure do love arguing about zombies!

[lithy]

Oh, and by the by:



Rather shot your own argument in the bollocks with that one, old bean. After all, in MS3 the "zombies" kill you if they get body fluids on you when you're already a zombie, just like the "mummies" do in MS2. So by your logic, since zombies don't do that, the "zombies" in MS3 aren't actually zombies either, which blows your entire debating position to pieces.

Man, I sure do love arguing about zombies!

You forgot just one part though.


If it says mummy in the instruction book, will you concede that you made a minor error in your article?

[TonK]

Oh, and by the by:



Rather shot your own argument in the bollocks with that one, old bean. After all, in MS3 the "zombies" kill you if they get body fluids on you when you're already a zombie, just like the "mummies" do in MS2. So by your logic, since zombies don't do that, the "zombies" in MS3 aren't actually zombies either, which blows your entire debating position to pieces.

Man, I sure do love arguing about zombies!

So Metal Slug went with Zombies and Zelda went 3D.

Those are called changes.

And from the sales numbers and value of this title, I'd say people are content with it.

I don't think the developers were historically correct with the inclusion of man eating flowers.

[RevStu]

Might I ask how you became so ornery in your responses to criticism?

People here tend to like someone who doesn't tolerate cretins. Over here, a man called Clement Freud (a descendant of the great psychiatrist) died recently - he was a broadcaster, writer, Member of Parliament and Knight of the Realm, among other things, and was very dear to the British public's heart.

At his funeral, his son said fondly of him, "He went out of his way to find fools not to suffer".

I hope that helps.

[SIXPACK]

I bow to your superior experience of cheap whores on crack.

At least i know what im talking about!
not sure if that sounded good.......

[RevStu]

You forgot just one part though.

I don't give a rat's arse what it says in the instruction book. After all, I'm sure the instruction manual for MS3 calls the zombie-like creatures "zombies", but you've just told us they're not.

[lithy]

I don't give a rat's arse what it says in the instruction book. After all, I'm sure the instruction manual for MS3 calls the zombie-like creatures "zombies", but you've just told us they're not.

Thanks for clarifying that you have no interest what the correct answer is, only that you will blindly stand behind your work and so long as you are unwilling to admit fault, in your eyes, it is 100% correct.

[SIXPACK]

Man, I sure do love arguing about zombies!

Man,i sure do love to watch you 2 guys argue about zombies!

[Sam Madeupname]

Thanks for clarifying that you have no interest what the correct answer is, only that you will blindly stand behind your work and so long as you are unwilling to admit fault, in your eyes, it is 100% correct.

No, I gave you your line. It was, "A-HA! The proof at last that you failed to do proper research for your article!"

Tsk, you got it all wrong. Tell us again how you haven't read the article, and then the bit about how poorly researched it is.

[TonK]

People here tend to like someone who doesn't tolerate cretins. Over here, a man called Clement Freud (a descendant of the great psychiatrist) died recently - he was a broadcaster, writer and Member of Parliament, among other things, and was very dear to the British public's heart.

At his funeral, his son said fondly of him, "He went out of his way to find fools not to suffer".

I hope that helps.

No, it really doesn't.

Unless you are implying that you want to be like him, that he is your mentor and you have 1 or 2 posters of him in your office and maybe a collection of his works?

Is he someone you look up to?

Because I whole heartily believe that this broadcaster/writer you mention would avoid presenting himself in the same fashion as you did with your responses to Bobak's solid and thorough dissection of your work.

[RevStu]

Thanks for clarifying that you have no interest what the correct answer is,

There IS no "correct answer", you fucking halfwit. THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS ZOMBIES.

[RevStu]

No, it really doesn't.

Unless you are implying that you want to be like him, that he is your mentor and you have 1 or 2 posters of him in your office and maybe a collection of his works?

Is he someone you look up to?


I want to reanimate his corpse into a zombie so I can have sex with it.

We're back on topic!

[TonK]

I want to reanimate his corpse into a zombie so I can have sex with it.

We're back on topic!

See, with childish responses like this, I'm suprised anyone takes you seriously.

Unless its that reputation you have to uphold. (as mentioned earlier)

[RevStu]

See, with childish responses like this, I'm suprised anyone takes you seriously.

People take me seriously because I'm incredibly fucking serious about my job. Whereas taking the piss out of complete morons on forums in my spare time is more of a recreation.

[Jibbajaba]

Jesus, are you guys really arguing about something so trivial? Is the zombie versus mummy controversy really the make-or-break point for the article in question?

A mummy is a dead body that has been embalmed and wrapped in strips of cloth. A zombie is a dead body that has become reanimated. The two are not mutually exclusive. The creatures to whom you are all referring are mummies, meaning that they are dead bodies embalmed and wrapped in cloth, that have become reanimated (and can spread their condition to the living), and are therefore also zombies. This isn't rocket science.

Whether the manual refers to them as mummies or zombies is neither here nor there. To describe them as zombies is perfectly acceptable as a desctiptive term because that's what they are, as well as being mummies. Is the author equally incorrect if he doesn't go out of his way to point out that their skin is blue?

Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty blown away by the author's behavior in this thread, but I have to say that over the last few pages, he hasn't been the most pathetic thing about this thread.

[RevStu]

Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty blown away by the author's behavior in this thread, but I have to say that over the last few pages, he hasn't been the most pathetic thing about this thread.

Aw, shucks.

[Jibbajaba]

Aw, shucks.

Yup. You need to step up your game a bit. You're slipping in the rankings.

Chris

[Jedah Doma]

So I've read through this thread and pretty much got this out of it:

Bobak makes viable points
Stu gets a sandy vagina

Rinse repeat.

And as it has been pointed out before, the humor derived from a 41 year old "professional" journalist ranting and raving on a forum dedicated to a dead system is quite immense.

Thanks for the entertainment Stu.:buttrock:

*waits for witty elitist comeback*

[RevStu]

*waits for witty elitist comeback*

You wouldn't understand it, love.

[TonK]

People take me seriously because I'm incredibly fucking serious about my job. Whereas taking the piss out of complete morons on forums in my spare time is more of a recreation.

You think you're "taking the piss" out of me?

You are in no fucking way, professional.

If I employed you as a freelance writer, and read the way you presented yourself on the largest Neo-Geo resource on the internet, you know "retro gaming" at its finest, you would be gone.

What would potential publications, looking to hire you, think if they saw this temper tantrum you threw on here?

You're 41, right?

[RevStu]

If I employed you as a freelance writer, and read the way you presented yourself on the largest Neo-Geo resource on the internet, you know "retro gaming" at its finest, you would be gone.

No doubt, but to be in that position you'd have to be an editor, and to be an editor you'd need to know the first fucking thing about journalism, so that's not something either of us are going to have to be worrying about any time soon, is it?

[TonK]

No doubt, but to be in that position you'd have to be an editor, and to be an editor you'd need to know the first fucking thing about journalism, so that's not something either of us are going to have to be worrying about any time soon, is it?

You're really 41?

Why not try to get on with life?

Because, your future as a journalist might take a different turn once these publications see the way you treated a community of potential subscribers.

Honestly, you are nothing as a journalist, which is why you don't have a permanent position anywhere.

You are scum, rude and unprofessional.

[RevStu]

You're really 41?

Why not try to get on with life?

Because, your future as a journalist might take a different turn once these publications see the way you treated a community of potential subscribers.

Honestly, you are nothing as a journalist, which is why you don't have a permanent position anywhere.

You are scum, rude and unprofessional.

I'm elitist AND scum? Man, this thread's getting me all confused.

Do you imagine, perhaps, that after 20 years in the business editors don't know perfectly well how I conduct myself on forums or anywhere else? Because if you do imagine that, you're even more stupid than you appear, which is very stupid indeed. Still, feel free to drop them a line if it'll make you feel better.

[Sam Madeupname]

So I've read through this thread and pretty much got this out of it:

Bobak makes viable points

It's kind of like a cult, isn't it? I like that. it's sweet. Bobak can spew out any old drivel, and his acolytes accept it as a new gospel. I'd love to see someone try and explain one of these "viable points". Wait, don't tell me, it's the one where he gets cross because the article isn't a review of a Ford Cortina, right?

Come on, surely the bit where the editor of Retro Gamer came in and pointed out quite how embarrassingly wrong Bobak's position was swayed at least one or two people into doubting his holy word? Or the bit where Bobak not only failed to get the (-Ed) joke, but then after it was explained to him by two people, continued to shout furiously about how he didn't get it? Since you've all been waiting to find out, yes, that was my favourite bit of this thread. Write that down. The bit where Bobak carried on shouting about how it was a "mistake", after the editor of the magazine and author of the article explained to him that it was a running joke that he didn't get. Aw, poor widdle cwoss man didn't get the mean joke!

No, sorry, I apologise. Bobak said it so it's true. It wasn't a joke, it wasn't a running gag from the articles, but it was in fact a mistake. A mistake that the editor chose not to correct when editing, but rather to write about in parentheses afterward, for, um, some reason... Oh yes, it was last minute - that was the decree given. I know for sure that when I'm editing something at the last minute I don't have time for the Delete key - I'm not made of time!

Hope you're well.

[TonK]

I'm elitist AND scum? Man, this thread's getting me all confused.

Do you imagine, perhaps, that after 20 years in the business editors don't know perfectly well how I conduct myself on forums or anywhere else? Because if you do imagine that, you're even more stupid than you appear, which is very stupid indeed. Still, feel free to drop them a line if it'll make you feel better.

Then that explains your lack of a position anywhere and small demographic of readers.

You are special.

[RevStu]

Then that explains your lack of a position anywhere

Actually, it doesn't. That's explained by the fact that I've only applied for one job in the last 15 years, because I like making a living while still having five days off a week.

As for my "small demographic of readers", would you like to share with us the evidence that brings you to that conclusion?