If SF2 hadn't kicked off the 2D fighter craze...
- Thread starter Deuce
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Samurai Shodown would've kicked off the 2D fighter craze if SF2 hadn't
In all likelihood, SNK never would've gotten into 2D fighters if SF2 didn't set the arcades alight with how popular it was.
what am i doing in general discussion after 3 years ?
er anyway you are talking about the american arcade market..
very superflous
just like europe and every other region / nation
in japan back in the mid 90s capcom and snk were both doing great
things started to go not so well from the moment vf 1 was released,imo
i have always played both capcom and snk versus games
people were starting holy wars "x is better than y"
bunch of idiots
a nice game is a nice game
americans have always been partial to sf,end of the story
probably because sf II was widely distributed and neo geo games weren't
who knows
i am not american and i don't really care anyway
snk was making better fighting games overall
focusing on characters,story,tons of extra stuff
but they weren't as playable as sf II WW - dash - hyper fighting
the first PROPER neo geo versus game was garou den special
er anyway you are talking about the american arcade market..
very superflous
just like europe and every other region / nation
in japan back in the mid 90s capcom and snk were both doing great
things started to go not so well from the moment vf 1 was released,imo
i have always played both capcom and snk versus games
people were starting holy wars "x is better than y"
bunch of idiots
a nice game is a nice game
americans have always been partial to sf,end of the story
probably because sf II was widely distributed and neo geo games weren't
who knows
i am not american and i don't really care anyway
snk was making better fighting games overall
focusing on characters,story,tons of extra stuff
but they weren't as playable as sf II WW - dash - hyper fighting
the first PROPER neo geo versus game was garou den special
Kazuki Dash
Samurai Shodown Swordsmith
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Actually, I'll say that Fatal Fury might have been the template that fighting games would have been based on since from what I remember it was being developed around the same time as SFII. What might this have meant for how fighting games developed? Now that's an interesting question as well.
One might argue that we may have seen even more beat-em-ups made by Capcom, since without SFII, one of their remaining huge hits around this time was Final Fight.
One might argue that we may have seen even more beat-em-ups made by Capcom, since without SFII, one of their remaining huge hits around this time was Final Fight.
Completely missing the point, apparently.
The point was, it was SF2 which began the huge trend for 2D versus fighting games to become popular in all regions. Not just the US, Europe or Japan. I was merely asking for speculation on what people thought might have happened to SNK if that trend had never begun.
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Kazuki Dash
Samurai Shodown Swordsmith
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In that sense, I'd have to go back to something that Fran mentioned...
My line of thinking early on is similar to this. Going back to my memories of playing both SFII and Fatal Fury, gameplay-wise I was all about SFII. The controls just seemed ideal for how this new type of gaming should work.
In contrast, Fatal Fury had what I felt was a great overall theme to it...the cast of characters was smaller but their stories were much more fleshed out, and the plot unfolded as you progressed further along. The idea that a human challenger could join in, help you trounce the CPU opponent, and then have both human players face off, was fun.
In short, ideal controls came from SFII. But Fatal Fury could potentially be the more enjoyable game to play through, particularly in a solo game. So basing my thoughts on that, if there had never been an SFII, then Fatal Fury might have meant that we would have had to wait a bit before fighting games contained a really tight set of controls gameplay-wise, but it might have meant that more of these games might have had more thought put into them than just the typical generic cast of characters with maybe one short blurb of text when you finish the game.
Yeah, but the question there is, without the popularity and initial draw of "Hey, it's like SF2," would there be enough tolerance for the sometimes iffy controls to look past its faults enough for it to build enough of a following to become much more than a niche genre? I kind of doubt it.
payment_due
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I for one would have loved sequels to Blue's Journey and Burning Fight.
Diggerman
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I would imagine that we would've seen more of what SNK was great at before SF2 - sprite based action games with those fantastic chunky graphics and colorful shading that SNK was famous for in the arcades, even before the Neo.
We might've had some really amazing side scrollers, SHMUPs, and action game sequels. sure we did get some of that (Metal Slug etc.) but we could've used a lot more.
Don't get me wrong - certainly Neo fighters were and are among the best 2D arcade games ever made - but watching so many other arcade genres fall by the wayside was sad.
We might've had some really amazing side scrollers, SHMUPs, and action game sequels. sure we did get some of that (Metal Slug etc.) but we could've used a lot more.
Don't get me wrong - certainly Neo fighters were and are among the best 2D arcade games ever made - but watching so many other arcade genres fall by the wayside was sad.
madman
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I agree w/this. While the Neo had some of the greatest 2D fighters ever, I wish there were more action games available for it. Yes, the Slugs are some of the best arcade games ever, but more side scroller beat em ups would've been great. The Neo is the one "classic" system that I wish was still receiving new games.
Kazuki Dash
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I dunno, I think the fanbase would have been a little slower to respond as opposed to the overnight success that SFII initiated, but I think it still would have happened. After all, Final Fight and beat-em-ups in general were extremely popular then. The premise of giving out electronic beatdowns was just so wildly popular that even as less-than-perfect as the original Fatal Fury was, I think the market would have loved the idea of head to head fighting games enough to bring about the development of this genre even without SFII ever having existed. How quickly it would have taken to hit full stride or if it ever would have reached the same levels of money-making popularity is a question I won't even try to answer though.
tsukaesugi
Holy shit, it's a ninja!,
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I agree with this 100%, but I bet that the lifespan of the Neo-Geo would have ended about five years earlier as a result. Fighting games and Metal Slug were pretty well the only games being released for the Neo-Geo for the last five years of it's run (for the home system anyway. I think there were some minor MVS releases like Pochi and Nyaa).
I'd say that the Japanese arcade scene really started to die off around 2000, when the PS2 and other home consoles were really starting surpass the level of graphics you'd find in arcade hardware. After that point fighters and shooters were the only 2D games that got any play in the arcades. Sprite based action games were well on their way out, so if that's all SNK had to offer they'd have to either come up with something new, or fold up shop.
Who knows, with no fighting games, maybe they would have concentrated on shooters instead. Maybe the Neo-Geo would have ended up like the Dreamcast, a console for the die-hard shooter fans.
$CASHMONEY$
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shit half the people that made games for capcom left to go to snk..
bottom line... if sf2 didn't come out or whatever... there would've been some other company (snk or otherwise) and we'd be havin this same discussion...
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Magician Lord 2.
Cyber-Lip 2.
Burning Fight 2.
At least Capcom was able to work on fighters and beat 'em ups simultaneously...
The aforementioned games had potential there, and the polish that comes with a sequel could have certainly made them stellar games. Oh well.
Cyber-Lip 2.
Burning Fight 2.
At least Capcom was able to work on fighters and beat 'em ups simultaneously...
The aforementioned games had potential there, and the polish that comes with a sequel could have certainly made them stellar games. Oh well.
fiolinagermi
Zero's Secretary
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i didnt really get to go to arcades when I was a kid. I think my parents thought they were seedy or something. But I remember that my two fav. fighters on the SNES, my first video game system was a NES, my second was a Genesis and a SNES, were SF2, and Samurai Shodown. If I hadnt had SF2, I would probably have played Samurai Shodown more, but SF2 became my obsession as well as everyone elses at the time. I think I had a copy of it for just about every system I own, but I also had a copy of samurai shodown as well, for genesis and for Sega CD. Only later, I around when the SNES got older, and the PSX started coming out, did I start really getting into fatal fury, and knowing the names of Terry Bogard, Joe Higashi, etc.
sure the DC has a ton of shooters, but 80% of them are just your average garbage.
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Fatal Fury was coming out, regardless if SF2 saw the light of day or not.
With that being said, it raises another question: Would the original Fatal Fury have made more of an impact on the arcade scene had SF2 not come out? Would it have been able to make SNK into the company that gave the arcade a new lifeline? Would Capcom create a game on their end being influenced by the original FF?
Hmmmm...
Sex Machine
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Fatal Fury 1 wouldn't have lead to the success of 2D fighters, take a look at the gameplay for example. As I don't see fatal fury really becoming popular until 2/special.
Angel
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This is a hard question for me to answer based on personal preference.
Personally, arcades in my areas had SFII side by side with SNK games. I don't recall every playing SFII at a time when there was NO SNK fighters. Early games being Fatal Fury and then SS1 and King of Monsters. So at least in my area, I don't think SFII had that much of an impact since it would seem the arcades got to it late.
But the other question I think is the more interesting one. If Fatal Fury was already going to be released regardless of SFII existing, what would the arcade scene had been like if FF was the first and not SFII. Personally, I do not like Fatal Fury, even from a nostalgia standpoint. And I personally think that it would've taken longer to get to a state of more polished and better fighters had FF been the first release, it would've set the bar too low right off the bat.
Personally, arcades in my areas had SFII side by side with SNK games. I don't recall every playing SFII at a time when there was NO SNK fighters. Early games being Fatal Fury and then SS1 and King of Monsters. So at least in my area, I don't think SFII had that much of an impact since it would seem the arcades got to it late.
But the other question I think is the more interesting one. If Fatal Fury was already going to be released regardless of SFII existing, what would the arcade scene had been like if FF was the first and not SFII. Personally, I do not like Fatal Fury, even from a nostalgia standpoint. And I personally think that it would've taken longer to get to a state of more polished and better fighters had FF been the first release, it would've set the bar too low right off the bat.
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It's not like FF was the first arcade fighter, and it was definitely nowhere near as 'inviting' as I'd say SFII was. I think the genre would have remained as stagnant and boring as it had been.
Without SF2, fighting games still would have come into the limelight, at least in the US.
Have you forgotten the violence, the censored SNES port, the Chinese Ninjas...
MORTAL KOMBAT!!!!
Casual gamers would have just seen SNK fighters as Mortal Kombat knock offs instead of SF2 knock offs, and MK would have been that much bigger. SNK would would have continued to develop deeper fighters for people looking for deeper gameplay, but not have the same level of mainstream recognition.
In my area the fighters in arcades were MK and SF2. I don't remember seeing as many Neo Geo cabinets around, but there is probably a good reason for that. A local computer store was completely on board with the AES, and would let people play the games as long as they wanted to push sales of the system. They'd even switch the games if you pretended that you might one day have enough money to buy one.
Have you forgotten the violence, the censored SNES port, the Chinese Ninjas...
MORTAL KOMBAT!!!!
Casual gamers would have just seen SNK fighters as Mortal Kombat knock offs instead of SF2 knock offs, and MK would have been that much bigger. SNK would would have continued to develop deeper fighters for people looking for deeper gameplay, but not have the same level of mainstream recognition.
In my area the fighters in arcades were MK and SF2. I don't remember seeing as many Neo Geo cabinets around, but there is probably a good reason for that. A local computer store was completely on board with the AES, and would let people play the games as long as they wanted to push sales of the system. They'd even switch the games if you pretended that you might one day have enough money to buy one.
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Like the dude above said...
More people recognize Mortal Kombat than Street Fighter.
More people recognize Mortal Kombat than Street Fighter.