Makoto players are just scary

Spike Spiegel

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Makoto is easily my best character, but she can be a beast if played well. Besides the top three, dudley and makoto can compete well, too. You didn't even see the redizzy combos she's able to pull off. Her stun ability is absurd in that game.

Slightly off topic: I'll tell you who I'm getting into now in this game, and that's Oro. He's got a surprisingly good game!
 

genjiglove

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Makoto is easily my best character, but she can be a beast if played well. Besides the top three, dudley and makoto can compete well, too. You didn't even see the redizzy combos she's able to pull off. Her stun ability is absurd in that game.

Slightly off topic: I'll tell you who I'm getting into now in this game, and that's Oro. He's got a surprisingly good game!

What are some good Oro strats? I have never been able to use him at all.

I'm a fan of Q. He has a hard time against most characters but he is just fun to play as. I've seen some match vids of highly skilled Q users before, he can be a beast in the right hands.
 

Spike Spiegel

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Close standing MP one hit into his jumping stomp kick, repeat, then start EX tengu stone and juggle the shit out of people with alternating standing roundhouse and forward MPs. His double jump can confuse people, not to mention that he's so damn short and can duck or dash under a lot of attacks. But, again, I just got started with him. I can tell you a lot more about Makoto, as she's my main.
 

Space Runaway

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Close standing MP one hit into his jumping stomp kick, repeat, then start EX tengu stone and juggle the shit out of people with alternating standing roundhouse and forward MPs. His double jump can confuse people, not to mention that he's so damn short and can duck or dash under a lot of attacks. But, again, I just got started with him. I can tell you a lot more about Makoto, as she's my main.

I'd be interested in anything you have to say. I've been trying to get better at 3S, and Makoto is a character that I'd like to get better at using, but not really much good at currently. Find myself using either Elena or Remy mostly.
 

LWK

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Okay, first, you gotta know your opponent. With that you gotta know if they'll use that fwdshort kara grab cancel, thats among the scariest of things she has, second I'd say is the fwdRH cancel as well.. Know when to attack her low to stuff some of her magic. If she dashes in, consider a jump parry. You gotta think a little bit ahead in this match, and its not a terrible choice to guess a bit when you play a new makoto.

Of all the bullshit in 3s, she is considered the cheapest character, and I know how good Yun and Chun is, I use both of them at a good level.

With oro I'd recommend mastering all your normal pokes from max distance first. His sRH and sStrong are both excellent, then when you get that, learn both his tengu and yagyou dama SA's. yagyou gives you some unblockable possibilites on version A of 3S, as this version is the japanese standard, and you'll never see version B used in a worthy tourney.
Another thing, don't double jump in urien's face. He also has some good wake up mix ups, and ways to set up tengu off a close sSTRONG
 
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Spike Spiegel

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I'd be interested in anything you have to say. I've been trying to get better at 3S, and Makoto is a character that I'd like to get better at using, but not really much good at currently. Find myself using either Elena or Remy mostly.

Well, this will be very watered down, but....

Makoto's game revolves around landing the karakusa (the choke grab, half circle back and a kick button). It may look retarded and do nothing, but it's what sets up all her guessing games and huge punishing combos. Also, speaking of combos, always use SA2... the one that sort of starts out like a Maximum Spider having her jump off the wall and come down with a kick into short auto combo.

You have to use the karakusa grab and that will set up an easy standing HP-> Hayate (QCF punch). Use the EX hayate to guarantee a knock down and a little more damage. You can be a dick and do normal hayates, but they aren't as safe since they don't knock down the opponent... unless the opponent isn't expecting it, which often they aren't. You can mix up with another choke grab/ducking short into EX overhead chop/throw/universal overhead.

Her bread and butter is that damn SA2. Get your back against the wall, or at least halfway on the side of the screen (watch the timer... if your position is between the timer and the screen behind you, that's good enough... Grab with the karakusa, then do a standing HP as soon as you complete it. The timing seems tricky when you first play her, but you can get it down pretty easily. After the standing HP hits, immediately do SA2. This WILL combo if your position on the screen is right. You'll have to use judgement as to what kick button to use to determine the distance the super art kick comes down at. Anyhow, after that last hit pops up the opponent, it's not over! You can do a few thigns here. You can either go the easy route and cancel intoa super jump and do a medium axe kick in mid air (this will juggle them up in mid air)... land, and as they are still in the air, depending on your position, you can do a few more hayates on the opponent.

The real combo, however is a variation of that that does massive stun damage. I'll give you a beginner's version, as the advanced version requires you to do a kara throw like move, but with her DP move.

karakusa grab, standing HP chop, SA2, DASH FORWARD and MP dragon punch (this is her strange looking anti cross over punch that seems useless), into a standing HP.

This does really terrific stun damage, and is dirt simple to do. The advanced version is to dash forward, do a kara DP, then dash again, do a normal DP then end with an attack. Does not much more damage, but does more stun.

If you're still with me, I'll go into her normal attacks:

You will have a hard time if first starting with her because moves you'd expect to have certain properties don't. What I mean is, ducking roundhouse is NOT a sweep move. Ducking fierce is NOT a mid hit (it sweeps). Her best poke is easily ducking strong punch. For Fei Long players, this is the exact same move with the exact same poking use with the exact same button! lol. Standing roundhouse is a good stuffing move that has surprising reach. Most of her forward and a button moves aren't super useful, and are only for the occasional mind game only. When attacking, her best jump ins are medium kick and fierce punch. Her axe kick is actually not too bad if you use the medium version, as I said before, it pops up the other character for juggle chances.

Hayate is a sweet and fast move that can be delayed and even canceled. Biggest mistake people make when starting with Makoto is spamming this dash punch (again, QCF P). If the other guy blocks it, it's pretty much a guarantee that you're going to get blasted, as the delay on block is pretty terrible. However, poking one out now and then can lead to mix ups, and more of those damn karakusa grabs.

Her main plus is insane stun. Hayate, DP, and her choke grab do great stun, and all of which are usually used in one combo together. Go to youtube and watch how people play her to see what I mean with that wicked SA2 combo.

Without meter, she's a little pussy cat, but with meter she will kill just about anything in her path. Just stay back and try to use some of her pokes to start the round out, then when you can do an EX move, you start to gain advantage (correct me if I'm wrong, but a blocked EX hayate may be somewhat safe).

That's it for now. Just got to play and play and play. I got into the character because she looked cool and was using karate without being a damn shoto. But she's got one hell of a stun game. Akuma players, if you get caught in her SA2 trap, you're done for. It's a redizzy combo that your puny little stun bar can't handle. Only a Dudley with no stun bar filled at all can withstand this attack and not get up dizzy as hell.
 

genjiglove

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I'd be interested in anything you have to say. I've been trying to get better at 3S, and Makoto is a character that I'd like to get better at using, but not really much good at currently. Find myself using either Elena or Remy mostly.

I suggest tracking down the Bradygames SF Anniversary Collection guide from a few years ago. Its actually very well written and will give you a nice grasp of the basics of the game. It helped me improve my game considerably. I'm not tournament player by any means but I got a lot better.

My favorite character is Ryu, if anyone really cares.
 

Spike Spiegel

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Keep in mind that SA2 combo, you have to cancel yourself out right after that last hit she does with either the dash or the super jump. You cannot just wait for her to finish, then dash.... it will be too late. As soon as that last hit connects, start your dash/jump in order to tack on more hits.
 

EVIL NICK

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That vid was just crazy. :) I hate good Makoto players, but I think that's because they are so far and few between, it's hard to learn to play against.

Most people over here play only the top 3. :(
 

moonwhistle

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I have so much trouble timing the fierce punch out of her command grab and as it's such a big part of game I generallly don't use her. I find it really easy to use her sa1 out of the command grab (wasteful i know) but I just cant time the fierce punch properly.

I like using oro alot. His standing roundhouse is one of the best in the game, it absolutely destroys akuma. :tickled:
 

caleb1883

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I have so much trouble timing the fierce punch out of her command grab and as it's such a big part of game I generallly don't use her. I find it really easy to use her sa1 out of the command grab (wasteful i know) but I just cant time the fierce punch properly.

Yeah the timing is wicked funky. I figured out you have to hit it right as she is about to set down her opponent. And the hayate afterwards is hard to get as well, because with the Hayate holding down the button delays the attack. So if you press the button a little to long, it will delay the attack and screw up the combo. The timing just feels so different than other characters.

But on her normals/specials. EX Oroshi (Chop), and EX Tsurugi (In air kick) are great for defense. The EX Oroshi comes out blazing fast, and is great against players trying to poke and dash their way in, especially Yang. My favorite use for a EX Tsurugi is to jump in, and pull it out at the last second. It will either catch them in the air as they meet your jump in, or catch them on the ground as they attempt to block. Although, against Ken and Ryu, the shoryuken can meet you so far out it might not work.
 

Kazuki Dash

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Been watching more vids by this same Makoto user, "J", and I can see much of what has been mentioned in this thread used in them. This particular vid I found to be rather entertaining, given that he has to defend against folks using Yun, Yang, and Chun Li one after the other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVWZ74_SPE
 

EVIL NICK

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Been watching more vids by this same Makoto user, "J", and I can see much of what has been mentioned in this thread used in them. This particular vid I found to be rather entertaining, given that he has to defend against folks using Yun, Yang, and Chun Li one after the other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVWZ74_SPE

That guy plays one evil Makoto, wasn't that against the top Chun and the top Yun?
 

genjiglove

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There was a Yang in there, which I don't think I've seen in a high level tourney.
 

Spike Spiegel

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Been watching more vids by this same Makoto user, "J", and I can see much of what has been mentioned in this thread used in them. This particular vid I found to be rather entertaining, given that he has to defend against folks using Yun, Yang, and Chun Li one after the other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVWZ74_SPE

He doesn't use the SA2 combo hardly at all, fo some reason. You haven't seen anything yet!
 

Spike Spiegel

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That last one doesn't impress me, and I'll tell you why: what was the damage set to? Damage was clearly set to super high... so, it's not fair. Neat looking, but not real.
 

Kazuki Dash

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Yeah, it did seem like it was under a controlled setting...I'm still keen on the beatdown given to Remy in the first vid though. It seems to be more plausible, but I'll wait till someone like LWK chimes in about it.
 

LWK

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The guy J, he is considered the definitive Makoto player in japan. Or at least at the time he was.

I don't see much of his game anymore.

You see that combo on Remy? I used to use remy competitively and wrack up streaks with him till I saw how shifted that match was when it comes to Makoto, I still use him on occasion, but a lot less then I did. In that particular match he has a real tarnish on his gameplay, his sole style revolves around a give and take feed momentum, and the problem with that is his high LOV's *projectiles he throws*, Makoto can dash right under. The fear factor is the fact hes a huge stun target. If you play a good Oro, Alex, Makoto, or Denjin Ryu, you gotta be extra intuitive to win those matches, and I especially hate makoto, her main SA done as a 'lucky charm' or at a time where she sees a action of his ahead of time *cough, LOV far ass away* can literally cost him a entire match, hes guaranteed to be stunned once she does that super and follow ups right after.

This is why I have tremendous respect for Remy and why I put a year of play time into this guy before I perma switched to Urien *and still using Urien as his style of play is exactly mine*

BTW, that last one IS legit, it did that much because she mid dashed into it. No life retooling in that at all.

Also keep in mind Ibuki is a Akuma style damage target, she and him take STUPID damage.
 
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Kazuki Dash

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So both vids are totally legit then? Well, all I have to say then is Ho-lee s**t. That really is damn scary, all right.
 

Einhander

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He doesn't use the SA2 combo hardly at all, fo some reason. You haven't seen anything yet!

SA2 combo is not good against the smaller characters (Yun, Yang, Chun, Ibuki, Oro) because the follow ups after the punch up are screwy where either the dash upper misses or the SJ cancel air kick overshoots them. Also, the small characters provide bad angles for the SA2 where only the first hit will connect and Makoto will shoot over the opponent and finish the rest of the combo while the opponent can freely move. I believe this is the reason why J uses SA1 on those matches.
 
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