PDA

View Full Version : Neo Geo Development



Crim
10-14-2008, 08:28 AM
Hey Guys,

I'm a neo-geo noob, who has an interest in learning to develop games for the neo geo. unfortunately I haven't found all that much hard information about this topic, it seems that the neo-geo homebrew circle is pretty small. I've run across the NeoDev libraries, along with the source for a few games/demos. I've managed to build the source, but am having difficulties figuring out how to get Mame to play homebrew roms. Can anyone lend me a hand here?

My end goal would be to have some game that I could put onto a MVS cart and play on my machine. From searching around it seems as tho there are no flash carts for loading homebrew code. Someone out there must have information on building these due to the large number of bootlegs. Although I'm not all that adept with hardware/electronics (I'm a software guy by trade) I do own a few eprom burners and have some basic knowledge. I have a bootlegged metal slug cart, I was considering tearing that apart to try to figure out how I could load my own code, but if anyone already has this kind of information and would be willing to share that would be awesome (I do understand this is probably an touchy subject due to the people bootlegging games)

Thanks!
Stephen

michel
10-14-2008, 11:41 AM
First of all, welcome!

It's great to hear that you wish to develop games for NEO*GEO!

As for your question, I'm not MAME literate as others here. All I can say is that the NEO*GEO rom file format must be worked on to make it runs on MAME. Paradoxally, the Kawaks emulator now only accept NEO*GEO roms in MAME format instead of native.
I'm sure that other people here are going to give you a superior insight on the problem.

As for burning AES roms, it's known that the German developers of Last Hope did just that, so I'd ask them, for a starter.

good luck!... :)

Chainclaw
10-14-2008, 07:53 PM
I asked about this the other day, and was linked to this : http://www.neobitz.com/

I want to do some NEO homebrew at some point, as well, but I want to actually finish my current project (Atari 2600 homebrew) first.

JMKurtz
10-15-2008, 07:34 AM
Your best bet (starting out) is to code your game and name your rom files the same as an existing game like Puzzle de Pon. Then you can just load your game into MAME, ignoring all the crc mismatch warnings.

Second to that, you can modify mame source to add your own driver. You can read more about the mame source on mame's site (www.mamedev.com) and download the build tools.

If that sounds like too much work, try and locate NeoRageX. This will load just about any .zip if it finds the necessary files it needs to run a game.

You could also try Nebula. It uses an external driver file. You can download the driver files from my site with my simple demos (www.neobitz.com) to see what is involved.

As for building a cart -- that's not so tough either. Just pick up a cheap cart and yank the mask roms and replace with low-profile sockets. Then burn eproms and try it out. Sure, there's a little more to it than that, but if you put your game onto same size eproms as the mask roms from your host cart, that's 90% of your battle.

Nobody (as far as I know) has really created a faq for this sort of thing.

Jeff

lachlan
10-15-2008, 05:50 PM
ALRIGHT! "noob" and "neo geo development"



I think I've said enough.

ForeverSublime
10-15-2008, 06:48 PM
Best of luck on your projects Crim and Chainclaw.

Crim
10-15-2008, 07:30 PM
Your best bet (starting out) is to code your game and name your rom files the same as an existing game like Puzzle de Pon. Then you can just load your game into MAME, ignoring all the crc mismatch warnings.

Second to that, you can modify mame source to add your own driver. You can read more about the mame source on mame's site (www.mamedev.com) and download the build tools.

If that sounds like too much work, try and locate NeoRageX. This will load just about any .zip if it finds the necessary files it needs to run a game.

You could also try Nebula. It uses an external driver file. You can download the driver files from my site with my simple demos (www.neobitz.com) to see what is involved.

As for building a cart -- that's not so tough either. Just pick up a cheap cart and yank the mask roms and replace with low-profile sockets. Then burn eproms and try it out. Sure, there's a little more to it than that, but if you put your game onto same size eproms as the mask roms from your host cart, that's 90% of your battle.

Nobody (as far as I know) has really created a faq for this sort of thing.

Jeff


Cool I appreciate the info on running the roms with mame, I'll give it another go.

As far as the carts go I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron and have done basically the same type of work on Nissan ECU's desoldering roms and replacing with sockets/eeproms. If you get the urge you should put together a FAQ for this, otherwise when I go down that road I'll put something together.


Thanks!
Stephen

Crim
10-15-2008, 09:10 PM
You could also try Nebula. It uses an external driver file. You can download the driver files from my site with my simple demos (www.neobitz.com) to see what is involved.


Hey Jeff,

I downloaded your games and dropped them into nebula, along with the driver and neogeo bios, but keep getting 'Z80' error. Any thoughts?

EDIT-- Cool got them along w/ the sample code in your dev library up and going :)

Chainclaw
10-16-2008, 12:27 AM
I'm excited to hear about your progress on this! It'll unfortunately be a while before I can start anything, so your trailblazing will make future stuff easy.

I'm especially looking forward to your notes on making custom carts. While I doubt any projects I work on will ever be complete enough to make carts, my eprom skills are so far limited to building my own Atari carts, and in that case I used a couple socketed boards because I ended up with a couple bad burns.

BigTinz
10-16-2008, 01:19 AM
Your best bet (starting out) is to code your game and name your rom files the same as an existing game like Puzzle de Pon. Then you can just load your game into MAME, ignoring all the crc mismatch warnings.

Second to that, you can modify mame source to add your own driver. You can read more about the mame source on mame's site (www.mamedev.com) and download the build tools.

If that sounds like too much work, try and locate NeoRageX. This will load just about any .zip if it finds the necessary files it needs to run a game.

You could also try Nebula. It uses an external driver file. You can download the driver files from my site with my simple demos (www.neobitz.com) to see what is involved.

As for building a cart -- that's not so tough either. Just pick up a cheap cart and yank the mask roms and replace with low-profile sockets. Then burn eproms and try it out. Sure, there's a little more to it than that, but if you put your game onto same size eproms as the mask roms from your host cart, that's 90% of your battle.

Nobody (as far as I know) has really created a faq for this sort of thing.

Jeff

Hey jeff, are you still working on the neo pacman?

JMKurtz
10-16-2008, 08:11 AM
I suspended it because Vektorlogic had plans of making a pac clone but they all but vanished. I've been thinking about getting back into Neo dev after my hectic work schedule slows down. If I do, I may start back with that game to ease back into the swing of things.

The game was probably about 50%. The ghost logic was almost complete. You could finish off a level and go to the next. It needs more mazes, sound, and then the opening/closing stuff. I also wanted to add bonus items like you would see in Ms Pac Man, but these would give you abilities -- like speed, invisibility, ghost confusion, monster size, etc.

Jeff


Hey jeff, are you still working on the neo pacman?

BigTinz
10-16-2008, 11:40 AM
Sounds amazing.

Jae686
10-17-2008, 02:54 PM
I'm also interested in coding a demo or two on the ngpc, but cant find the flashcard anywhere....

Neo Alec
10-17-2008, 03:47 PM
If you're interested in making the game run on real Neo hardware, it would be much more practical to burn a Neo CD than to make a cart. That would be much better for testing purposes, as you wouldn't need to worry about making a cart unless you wanted one for the final version.

Otherwise there's a lot of rom soldering/desoldering involved if you want to test on Neo hardware several steps along the way. In other words, not practical.

Crim
10-17-2008, 09:58 PM
If you're interested in making the game run on real Neo hardware, it would be much more practical to burn a Neo CD than to make a cart. That would be much better for testing purposes, as you wouldn't need to worry about making a cart unless you wanted one for the final version.

Otherwise there's a lot of rom soldering/desoldering involved if you want to test on Neo hardware several steps along the way. In other words, not practical.

Is there more to it then putting in some low profile sockets and burning eproms?

topher
10-18-2008, 12:52 AM
I suspended it because Vektorlogic had plans of making a pac clone but they all but vanished. I've been thinking about getting back into Neo dev after my hectic work schedule slows down. If I do, I may start back with that game to ease back into the swing of things.

The game was probably about 50%. The ghost logic was almost complete. You could finish off a level and go to the next. It needs more mazes, sound, and then the opening/closing stuff. I also wanted to add bonus items like you would see in Ms Pac Man, but these would give you abilities -- like speed, invisibility, ghost confusion, monster size, etc.

Jeff

Without a doubt I would buy a MVS Pac cart. Please make this happen Mr. Kurtz :D

SuperMegaUltra
10-18-2008, 02:58 AM
Without a doubt, I would buy a Pac-Man MVS cartridge. Please make this happen, Mr. Kurtz. :D

Ditto! What he said!! :cool:

JMKurtz
10-18-2008, 10:53 AM
Testing in an emulator is fast and pretty close to accurate and is the easiest way to test. There are a couple things the emulators will let you get away with that you cannot do on real hardware.

But for running on real hardware -- if you don't have access to an eprom programmer, the CD route is a good alternative. Thanks for pointing that out, I never seem to think of that since I have the tools to make a cart.

Jeff


If you're interested in making the game run on real Neo hardware, it would be much more practical to burn a Neo CD than to make a cart. That would be much better for testing purposes, as you wouldn't need to worry about making a cart unless you wanted one for the final version.

Otherwise there's a lot of rom soldering/desoldering involved if you want to test on Neo hardware several steps along the way. In other words, not practical.

JMKurtz
10-18-2008, 11:21 AM
Yes and no... If you have the right size eproms to match your current board configuration, then no, you just pop in the eproms and go.

It's far easier to pad and lay out your rom images to match the board settings than it is to match board jumper settings to your eproms.

My test board doesn't use sockets, I used pin receptacles. I forget the ones I used, they were something like these:

http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/0514.pdf

The reason you want low profile or something like what I used is because DIP sockets can add height which could cause the boards to touch and be cramped inside the shell.

Jeff


Is there more to it then putting in some low profile sockets and burning eproms?

Crim
10-18-2008, 10:35 PM
I cracked open the Metal slug bootleg I have here, only one of the eproms still is marked what it is...
HN27C101G (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-26/DSA-517842.pdf)

Another is partially marked D27C and the rest is unreadable. All of the rest of the roms are blank and etched with each of the numbers 821 thru 827. Upon closer inspection, it looks like the pinout for these chips on the board are incorrect, because under each chip there are tiny wires running from various pins.

What type of eproms do you drop in for these? Do you have issues w/ the pinouts being incorrect between the chip and board?

In my spare time I've been messing about w/ the neodev library, put together pong pretty quickly. I haven't quite figured out how to really use sprites yet tho.

Thanks!
Stephen.

michel
10-19-2008, 09:23 AM
In my spare time I've been messing about w/ the neodev library, put together pong pretty quickly.


well, congratulations!

you and Jeff must be pretty good programmers

I know C++ and have some basic knowledge of assembler (Z80 expecially) and I'd like to be of help, for how little I can be right now.

Yet, the more I think about Neo*Geo games, the more I'm convinced that what made them really stand out as quality games was the great care put in designing the sprites, their animation and such...
Coding a game like King of Fighters can be hard, or boring, but can be done... What I couldn't even think where to start from is creating/putting together beautiful character's sprites such the ones of Terry, Mai and such ;)

TheLastTrin
10-27-2008, 01:19 AM
ALRIGHT! "noob" and "neo geo development"



I think I've said enough.

Oh man, you're soooo cool.

lachlan
10-27-2008, 04:42 AM
Oh man, you're soooo cool.

You're right.

Thanks.

Crim
10-27-2008, 08:11 AM
For a quick first project Spirantho and I have finished putting together the basics for a 2 player tetris game (tetrinet style), there's still a good bit of work left before it's "finished", but all the basics of game play are there. Does anyone have any interest in helping out with creating original graphics for the game?

lachlan
10-27-2008, 08:34 AM
For a quick first project Spirantho and I have finished putting together the basics for a 2 player tetris game (tetrinet style), there's still a good bit of work left before it's "finished", but all the basics of game play are there. Does anyone have any interest in helping out with creating original graphics for the game?

Post this in the creative forum and I'm sure someone there would be MORE than happy to help you out.

Spirantho
10-28-2008, 05:35 AM
Thought I'd just chip in and say Hi as I don't actually post here very much!

What Crim didn't say is he's actually done a very good job of getting Tetris up and working and actually looking quite nice.... but if we could get an artist on board that'd be even better.

Maybe once we've done Tetris we'll do Pacman! But in the meantime Tetris is a great product to learn NeoGeo coding from.

Maybe after a bit of tidying we'll be able to release a preview pre-1.0 Tetris so you all can see our progress.

michel
10-28-2008, 08:47 AM
sounds great!

I wish I could help you with the graphics, but, as I told you before, I'm mostly a programmer

P00t
10-28-2008, 09:31 AM
I'd love to see Space Invaders for the Neo, is that possible?

Spirantho
10-28-2008, 11:00 AM
OK, so after we've done Tetris, you want Pac-Man and Space Invaders. :)

I was also thinking of the possibility of writing a version of Julian Gollop's Chaos (it's a Sinclair Spectrum game - the forerunner to Laser Squad/Lords of Chaos et al) as that'd rock on a Neo Geo IMHO. But that's a way off. Tetris first. :)

Xian Xi
10-28-2008, 05:15 PM
I still would love to see Ikari Warriors on MVS as well as Time Soldiers.

JMKurtz
10-29-2008, 07:47 AM
Contact adrian_j from these forums. He's a good artist and was going to help me on a project before I got to busy with real-life work and couldn't devote much free time to a project.

However, if you want to do a pac game, I already have a jump-start on it. I have some logic done and a little artwork that someone did for me a long time ago.

Jeff



Thought I'd just chip in and say Hi as I don't actually post here very much!

What Crim didn't say is he's actually done a very good job of getting Tetris up and working and actually looking quite nice.... but if we could get an artist on board that'd be even better.

Maybe once we've done Tetris we'll do Pacman! But in the meantime Tetris is a great product to learn NeoGeo coding from.

Maybe after a bit of tidying we'll be able to release a preview pre-1.0 Tetris so you all can see our progress.

michel
11-02-2008, 09:52 AM
I was also thinking of the possibility of writing a version of Julian Gollop's Chaos (it's a Sinclair Spectrum game - the forerunner to Laser Squad/Lords of Chaos et al) as that'd rock on a Neo Geo IMHO. But that's a way off. Tetris first. :)


You can't go wrong with Spectrum games. I still count Psytron among my all time favourites. :)


My real dream would be seeing a follow up to Mark of the Wolves on the Neo... pretty impossible, because we would need the original source code and some killer graphic artitsts!

On a less dreamy side, I think that Defender could be done. A nice game with simple mechanics and very schematic graphics (and no backgrounds, as far as I recall).

Crim
11-02-2008, 03:54 PM
Well I wrapped up the 2 player mode game play code today for the tetris/tetrinet clone. Not much left to do other then drop in some graphics, and figure out sound effects & music :D

Xian Xi
11-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Hey Crim, if this is going to be tetris on the Neo, how about using some sound effects from Neo games like Metal Slug and Shock Troopers.

I was thinking that the sound for when the piece falls in to place should be the sound for when you pick up a weapon that sounds like a gun being cocked.