Italian League weaker than at any time in living memory

[rugal2000]

Its crazy but Italy are the world champions and u would think football would still be booming in their country. Yet their club game is now devoid of the star names of a decade ago and they have fallen shockingly behind England and Spain in terms of wealth , power, strength and merchandising ability and stadia.. No longer can they compete with these countries for the big name signings and young prospects from Italy are now actually being poached by foreign clubs in France.

Blame it on the financial crisis and points deductions which has sent traditional investors and the mafioso's who laundered money in Italian clubs running for cover and taking their finances with them. Or blame it on the crowd violence, the aged and crumbling stadiums and the lack of forward thinking that sees Italian clubs unable to pull in the big bucks available from Far eastern merchandising.

It may sem crazy when u consider that Italy are after all world champions and Milan have been europes strongest team in the last 5 years overall, but that Milan team like most of the top Italian teams, now has serious financial difficulties and an ageing squad

Milan, Inter and Juventus are now almost totally reliant on ageing superstars in their ranks such as the Del Pierro's, Inzaghi's and Zambrotta's.

I think only Mourinho offers hope for an Italian team doing well in Europe this season. Milan are only in the Uefa cup but like last year that was a strong competition and they may not even make it to the last stages like Bayern last year.

[Xander Crews]

Its crazy but Italy are the world champions and u would think football would still be booming in their country. Yet their club game is now devoid of the star names of a decade ago and they have fallen shockingly behind England and Spain in terms of wealth , power, strength and merchandising ability and stadia.. No longer can they compete with these countries for the big name signings and young prospects from Italy are now actually being poached by foreign clubs in France.

Blame it on the financial crisis and points deductions which has sent traditional investors and the mafioso's who laundered money in Italian clubs running for cover and taking their finances with them. Or blame it on the crowd violence, the aged and crumbling stadiums and the lack of forward thinking that sees Italian clubs unable to pull in the big bucks available from Far eastern merchandising.

It may sem crazy when u consider that Italy are after all world champions and Milan have been europes strongest team in the last 5 years overall, but that Milan team like most of the top Italian teams, now has serious financial difficulties and an ageing squad

Milan, Inter and Juventus are now almost totally reliant on ageing superstars in their ranks such as the Del Pierro's, Inzaghi's and Zambrotta's.

I think only Mourinho offers hope for an Italian team doing well in Europe this season. Milan are only in the Uefa cup but like last year that was a strong competition and they may not even make it to the last stages like Bayern last year.

The EPL is a bit out of control - they're willing to pay the fees no one else in their right minds will. This has brought them countless talent from across the channel and beyond. At the same time, this has had a negative impact on the homegrown talent, as noted by Alex Fergusson and a few others. English players find themselves without a kit as the stars from Portugal, France, Spain, and eastern Europe take over.

On the other hand you look at Italy and it seems that yeah, the great talents aren't heading into Italy at the same rate. But Italy isn't willing to pay the same money. How much did Robbie Keane go for from Totnum to Liverpool? Ridiculous money, and Keane isn't even that great. He's not 25 anymore. In Italy no one commands that kind of price unless they're Ronaldinho.

One thing that really makes me pissed off, however, is managers like Calderon in Real Madrid. Absolute filth. I can't believe they let Real Madrid pull the same shit on Ronaldo that they did on Figo. Real Madrid is a team owned by faggots. Sepp Blatter should ask them about slavery, after he gets his nose out of their assholes.

[rugal2000]

All true.

Whats been going on this summer in england has been amazing in that so much overpriced players and such little comment on that fact in the english press who seem to get off quoting ridiculous prices.And all within a backdrop of the global credit crunch and bank runs in the UK. I guess the EPL is above the fray.

I mean is Gareth Barry worth £18 million! He isnt even as good as Xabi Alonso the man he is supposed to be replacing. Barry is 28 and worth in England about £11 m. No one in Europe would pay that much for him.

£20 million for Keane is a joke. he's a proven premiership goal scorer but for a 28 year old of his ability Id say £12-13M.Again no one in Europe would pay that.Is he that much better than his ex tottenham partner jermaine Defoe who is younger and was sold for £6 million . Or mido another succesfull ex partner sold for £4million. And dont get me started on berbatov for £25-32 million. Thats a joke.An Italian club who wanted him would not pay more than £15 million.

Agents in england are out of control. Thats where the bulk of the transfer goes, in their pockets.
germany and italy like u say dont play this way anymore.Spain do to a large extent when u figure they paid £12.6 million for a hype like Alexander Hleb.

The biggest joke is Andrei Arshavin and his agent.First they said they werent interested in the EPL and Andrei wanted to go to Barcelona. When Barca werent interested they issued a pompous statement saying they werent interested in offers from clubs like newcastle, tottenham or everton and only would entertain offers from the big 4.
None of the big 4 materialised so they try to do business with tottenham. if the press are to beleived the asking price is as of today down from £23 million to £19 million. Still way too much. Arshavin is worth £14-15 mill at most.

[jeff bogard]

ill read the other 2 posts. I like Juve, personally. and i think Deschamps should have stayed after their comeback from Serie B. I think he is a great coach and could have done a lot for the club (like lowering the average age of players in the team).

I have noticed that Italian Calcio doesn't make headlines (in a good sense) like before.

I will agree that young talent has been coming out of other countries, but I think it'll come around.

Sure i may not like the italian style of play, but they play a very solid style of the game.

[rugal2000]

Milans ability to buy senderos and flamini since my last post on the cheap (both players swayed by the ability to play for one of the most historic and succesfull clubs in world football- over the big bucks offered elsewhere in epl) shows Milan are now injecting young blood. Add to this their getting back Shevchenko on the cheap and once again I think they will be a powerhouse in Europe and now i think they will win the UEFA cup. Ronaldinho,Kaka,Shevchencko what a forward line!

[Tomcat]

I think they will be a powerhouse in Europe and now i think they will win the UEFA cup. !


They don't care about the Uefa cup...they wil use the seconds or thirds lines for that competition ...thay want win the Serie A buddy...

regards


Tom(ITA)

[rugal2000]

I think your wrong mate. I read the president of the club say that Milan have never won the UEFA cup and they will try and win it this season. The UEFA cup in its new extended group format could bring in £20-25 million pounds plus of extra revenue to the winners. Rangers of Scotland made £15 million for their run last year to the final.
Hopefully the competition this year will be as strong as it was last year.Cos most of the last 5 years its been very weak.

[bcfczulu]

lets hope villa dont win it then

[Xander Crews]

I think your wrong mate. I read the president of the club say that Milan have never won the UEFA cup and they will try and win it this season. The UEFA cup in its new extended group format could bring in £20 million pounds plus of extra revenue to the winners. Rangers of Scotland made £12 million for their run last year to the final.
Hopefully the competition this year will be as strong as it was last year.Cos most of the last 5 years its been very weak.

Then AC Milan must only be focusing on the UEFA cup, because they don't look like they care about winning in the Serie A.

[Tomcat]

Silvio Berlusconi our premier also A.C. Milan's president said in many interviews: "the most important thing for Milan this year is win the Serie A"

he never talked about focusing on others competitions like the Uefa ..never even mentioned it..


Now..they could also win the Uefa cup right but thats the not the real first target at moment..


nobody here in Italy care about the Uefa cup...
expecially for the Most winning team of the world...

that what I can say.. for sure..


regards

Tom(ITA)

[rugal2000]

This is becoming a bit of a pointless dialogue but since u havent understood what Ive said and think in black and white........

Milans top priority of course will be serie A where have I said elsewhere?
However does that mean they dontcare about the uefa cup or are incapable of fighting their battles on more than 1 front? Your claim that MIlan will be sending out a third string team in the uefa cup is a joke.
If you want to hear what the actually president said go and buy this months calcio magazine. The interview is all in there.

[Atro]

why do I have to read "milan priority THIS YEAR" is the Serie A ?

A Club like Milan cannot set a lower standard than that.

I read that the Serie A is no longer the same. But yet, it is just less "spectacular".
It may hold no big names compared to Spain or England dominated by filthy rich oil lords, but Italy has loads of ( obviously ) Italian players.

So what ?
Italians are world champions. Altough they may only have made just a single decent match in the last WC ( Against Germany, undeniable that they performed bad against the others, well, except against the africans ), but Italians are overall the best "home players" that you can find.
Brazil as an example is 5 times world champion and has always a top national team, but coming form a 759759735797598 million people country it is normal that they can put out more quantities of great players.

An italian player is overall more "complete". I do not like their catenaccio culture, but it's effective as fuck.

they have top goalies, the defenders don't even need to be mentioned.
Pirlo is a shinning midfielder like no other, the old del piero is still a badass mofo.
It's true they no longer have players in their league like good old days such as Mancinis, Baggio, Vialli, Baresi, Schilacci, but they hold great new gen player values.

Italy has as much league contenders as England or Spain.
And even if they were mixed in say, the premier league, Inter or AC Milan could hold against any of the premiership teams.

[Xander Crews]

Milan can't set it much higher than that. Think anyone really gives a crap about the UEFA cup? Unless they get back into the Champions League, they're going to lose more and more money and lose leverage in new signings.

Everything, in every industry, is in "interesting times." Whether you talk about stock markets or soccer, revolutions are occuring. Teams that were good last year are showing struggle now, and coaches are all seeing their jobs on the line. Ranieri, Spalleti, Carlo - these guys were top flight coaches last year. Now what?

But then you have guys like Prandelli looking hot. Fucking hate the Viola.

One thing is for sure. FOR CERTAIN. Italy needs strikers that can compete internationally. Toni is a joke. Gilardino is a joke. Totti isn't a striker, he's incredible, but he's old, injured, and looking for an exit. Cassano isn't a striker, he's not even controllable. No one is calling up Acquafresca because either he's playing for Cagliari, or he's polish. So what is Italy's master plan? Giving citizenship to Amauri?

Italy has some great great players, but I'm just calling it as I see it - Italy needs strikers.


why do I have to read "milan priority THIS YEAR" is the Serie A ?

A Club like Milan cannot set a lower standard than that.

I read that the Serie A is no longer the same. But yet, it is just less "spectacular".
It may hold no big names compared to Spain or England dominated by filthy rich oil lords, but Italy has loads of ( obviously ) Italian players.

So what ?
Italians are world champions. Altough they may only have made just a single decent match in the last WC ( Against Germany, undeniable that they performed bad against the others, well, except against the africans ), but Italians are overall the best "home players" that you can find.
Brazil as an example is 5 times world champion and has always a top national team, but coming form a 759759735797598 million people country it is normal that they can put out more quantities of great players.

An italian player is overall more "complete". I do not like their catenaccio culture, but it's effective as fuck.

they have top goalies, the defenders don't even need to be mentioned.
Pirlo is a shinning midfielder like no other, the old del piero is still a badass mofo.
It's true they no longer have players in their league like good old days such as Mancinis, Baggio, Vialli, Baresi, Schilacci, but they old great new gen player values.

Italy has as much league contenders as England or Spain.
And even if they were mixed in say, the premier league, Inter or AC Milan could hold against any of the premiership teams.

[Atro]

Lucarelli and Iaquinta are good strikers in my book. :vik:

That, speaking of italian born players.

Pato, Ibrahimovic can make it in any league they want ;)

[Xander Crews]

Lucarelli and Iaquinta are good strikers in my book. :vik:

That, speaking of italian born players.

Pato, Ibrahimovic can make it in any league they want ;)

Iaquinta, like Toni, is an example of a player who is good for club but not country. They're both still better than Di Natale.

[rugal2000]

Milan give a crap about the UEFA cup, the president said so. Sure they would rather be in the champions league and serie a is their main priority but the £20 million Milan stand to make by reaching the later stages is invaluable in the present economic climate, and theyve never won the uefa cup. Also since last year with the new revamped group format it is looking a much stronger competition and the fact last years winners Zenit beat the champions league winners Man Utd shows it isnt just won by chumps.The UEFA cup imo is back to how strong it was in 2000. Milan have a big squad now and they will field very strong teams in the uefa cup. if kaka, pato and ronaldinho didnt play pirlo, shevchenko and inzaghi will still play.

What you guys are forgetting is that a lot of italian clubs are just glad to be back in europe consistently.Dont forget only a couple of years ago these guys were thrown out of europe.

As for strikers I think Italy are fine and have a nice varied attack, plus they have a knack of finding new stars at tournaments who can score the goals neccesary, eg rossi and schillachi in past days. And i agree with the great post by one of the previous posters about maybe the italian league doesnt have as high profile "stars" but it is producing a lot of promising new gen players.
As far as striking goes Del Pierro is still imo one of the best in the world for winning games and bringing the best out of others. People always want to bring up age when a guy reaches 30, but what do u do if people like totti and del pierro are still world class and better than youngsters? Not play them cos they are a certain age.

I think 33-34-35 is the new 30-31 for a striker. Italians tend to be more proffesional on the pitch and more led by loyalty to club than say a british premiership striker who often by 30 are soft on easy money.(Vieri is an exception fat and bloated)

[Xander Crews]

I love Del Piero, and so do a lot of fans, but international managers don't seem to show the same adoration. Look at how much he played in the Eurocup under Donadoni. He's not even on the national team anymore. Totti retired from international play himself.

Part of it is giving youngsters a chance, another part is that it's hard as balls to do all that traveling. Doing it for a club team, being in the CL, and the national team, it all adds up.

It's even harder for guys like Nakamura, where his club team, Celtic, and his national team, Japan, are on opposite sides of the globe. In comparison, the retirement of a guy like Totti seems a bit weak. Del Piero, on the other hand, seems to ignore his age completely. Del Piero just wants to play football.

But Del Piero and Totti aren't strikers. They're forwards. Totti can do the lone striker position, but it's a waste of his talents. He's much more deadly as an attacking midfielder, just like Del Piero is more deadly as a second striker.

The current Italian strike force is only going to make the country pissed off. There are no Schillaci in the current team. I don't believe strikers are so necessary for the Italian side, considering their style of play, but I'm not going to gild lilies here.


Milan give a crap about the UEFA cup, the president said so. Sure they would rather be in the champions league and serie a is their main priority but the £20 million Milan stand to make by reaching the later stages is invaluable in the present economic climate, and theyve never won the uefa cup. Also since last year with the new revamped group format it is looking a much stronger competition and the fact last years winners Zenit beat the champions league winners Man Utd shows it isnt just won by chumps.The UEFA cup imo is back to how strong it was in 2000. Milan have a big squad now and they will field very strong teams in the uefa cup. if kaka, pato and ronaldinho didnt play pirlo, shevchenko and inzaghi will still play.

What you guys are forgetting is that a lot of italian clubs are just glad to be back in europe consistently.Dont forget only a couple of years ago these guys were thrown out of europe.

As for strikers I think Italy are fine and have a nice varied attack, plus they have a knack of finding new stars at tournaments who can score the goals neccesary, eg rossi and schillachi in past days. And i agree with the great post by one of the previous posters about maybe the italian league doesnt have as high profile "stars" but it is producing a lot of promising new gen players.
As far as striking goes Del Pierro is still imo one of the best in the world for winning games and bringing the best out of others. People always want to bring up age when a guy reaches 30, but what do u do if people like totti and del pierro are still world class and better than youngsters? Not play them cos they are a certain age.

I think 33-34-35 is the new 30-31 for a striker. Italians tend to be more proffesional on the pitch and more led by loyalty to club than say a british premiership striker who often by 30 are soft on easy money.(Vieri is an exception fat and bloated)

[rugal2000]

But Del Piero and Totti aren't strikers. They're forwards. Totti can do the lone striker position, but it's a waste of his talents. He's much more deadly as an attacking midfielder, just like Del Piero is more deadly as a second striker.



Tough statement considering Totti has scored 165 league goals in 350 games and Del Pierro has over 200 goals in serie A.

I see them as highly skilled strikers equally adept at playmaking as the traditional "fox in the box" role.

The whole point about the Schillachi's of this world is that they dont reveal themselves until tournaments and lurk as sleepers. A guy like massimo maccaroni is what i mean. he is much travelled, has scored reasonably well whever he has gone but hasnt lived up to promise. If a guy like this who hasnt been capped since 2002 gets called up in an emergency and performs all of a sudden he can solve the problems. Emile Heskey is such a player in england. He hadnt been called up for 3 years, he had travelled from club to club, not scoring goals but being hailed as invaluable by managers. With 3-4 leading strikers injured and the other 3-4 in the frame either not performing or being given a chance, Heskey has come in and all of a sudden he is keeping Crouch, Owen,Ashton, Defoe and Johnson out of the team. All of whom have superior goal records.

Luca Toni to me is given a bad time unreasonably. He has been prolific in the last 5 years and i think he deserves a long run in the team.

[Xander Crews]

Scoring a huge amount of goals doesn't make you a CF striker. ADP is prolific because he's smart and fast. He plays further back than Trezegol or Toni. Totti is the same behind Vucinic. They're not doing that from the CF position.


Tough statement considering Totti has scored 165 league goals in 350 games and Del Pierro has over 200 goals in serie A.

I see them as highly skilled strikers equally adept at playmaking as the traditional "fox in the box" role.

The whole point about the Schillachi's of this world is that they dont reveal themselves until tournaments and lurk as sleepers. A guy like massimo maccaroni is what i mean. he is much travelled, has scored reasonably well whever he has gone but hasnt lived up to promise. If a guy like this who hasnt been capped since 2002 gets called up in an emergency and performs all of a sudden he can solve the problems. Emile Heskey is such a player in england. He hadnt been called up for 3 years, he had travelled from club to club, not scoring goals but being hailed as invaluable by managers. With 3-4 leading strikers injured and the other 3-4 in the frame either not performing or being given a chance, Heskey has come in and all of a sudden he is keeping Crouch, Owen,Ashton, Defoe and Johnson out of the team. All of whom have superior goal records.

Luca Toni to me is given a bad time unreasonably. He has been prolific in the last 5 years and i think he deserves a long run in the team.

[rugal2000]

Scoring a huge amount of goals doesn't make you a CF striker. ADP is prolific because he's smart and fast. He plays further back than Trezegol or Toni. Totti is the same behind Vucinic. They're not doing that from the CF position.


No, they have scored huge amounts of goals cos they are strikers and play in that position and follow the instruction from their managers to be strikers,they have been listed as strikers by their clubs throughout their careers and the fact they play further back than a Toni or trezeguet doesnt mean they arent strikers. There are more than 1 type of striker and ADP and FTare strikers.

[Xander Crews]

No, they have scored huge amounts of goals cos they are strikers and play in that position and follow the instruction from their managers to be strikers,they have been listed as strikers by their clubs throughout their careers and the fact they play further back than a Toni or trezeguet doesnt mean they arent strikers. There are more than 1 type of striker and ADP and FTare strikers.

They still aren't CFs. Sorry. They are second strikers or attacking midfielders or wingers (in the case of ADP) at times, but not CFs.

[rugal2000]

we'll agree to disagree than charlie;)

I was playing an old ISS pro game (the 98 version) and it hit me just how many international quality strikers italy had in the 90's. U had your del pierro's, inzaghi, chiesa, casiraghi,ravanelli, vialli, baggio,signori, zola, negri. The list just went on and on.

The same can be said of english football. They had shearer, owen, fowler, ferdinand, cole,sheringham, collymore, le tissier, sutton etc now its down to rooney, heskey,defoe,owen and crouch.
The rest arent international quality

[Xander Crews]

we'll agree to disagree than charlie;)

I was playing an old ISS pro game (the 98 version) and it hit me just how many international quality strikers italy had in the 90's. U had your del pierro's, inzaghi, chiesa, casiraghi,ravanelli, vialli, baggio,signori, zola, negri. The list just went on and on.

The same can be said of english football. They had shearer, owen, fowler, ferdinand, cole,sheringham, collymore, le tissier, sutton etc now its down to rooney, heskey,defoe,owen and crouch.
The rest arent international quality

See, Rooney isn't an out and out striker. He plays too deep back to really be a striker. Defoe and Owen are quality strikers. Crouch is a robot. The days of the English striker seem over now. There's no more Les Ferdinands, Shearers or Coles.

Inzaghi _is_ a striker. but the guy is old as dirt now. He can still play, as can ADP, but come on, Italy needs fresh blood. I will say until my face is blue that Toni is not the fresh blood that Italians, much less the world, will remember for greatness. Gilardino won't be great either. They're just good players that won't ever be great.

[rugal2000]

Again we can agree to disagree. But it does seem to me you only consider a traditional no 9 in the mould of 80's players like linekar ,rush and voeller as strikers and you dont see the no 10 type striker or the more modern type striker with all round skill as a "striker" per se.
Maybe this is an issue of sermantics but trust me Rooney is a striker! He doesnt get in the box all the time and sometimes plays deep but the responsibility for the vast majority of the goals is on his shoulders along with a core of 3-4 players in the man utd side.

Owen is what i would call an out and out striker , the "fox in the box" as we call em in england.
Crouch is a very skilled ball player and underated player. He's twice the player jenas is. Jenas is a poor mans andy cole. Beleive it or not but emile heskey was once seen as a traditional english striker. He's reveled himself since as a fast powerful guy albeit one who falls down too easy, with underrated skill and awareness but an increasingly lousy inability to score more than 5 goals a season.

Italy do need fresh blood but in a similar vein to scholes and giggs, ADP and inzaghe are such special talents that even the older versions of them are better than 80% of what else is out there. I mean in 15 years of the premiership the UK has not produced 1 other player on the left wing with half of giggs talent let alone speed,longevity and proffesionalim. Scholes although as flamboyant a talent on the field as he is quiet off it, is less rare, Gerrard and Lampard although different in style are the same multi talented attacking central midfielders.

anyway i digress, I agree with you that toni isnt the future , at least long term, since the guy is 31. But for the next couple of years he may be as good as it gets in regards to the traditional striker in the italian side. he has replaced Vieri who looks finished at 34. I agree also that Gilardino and Aquafresca arent the future either. Neither Iaquinta or Amauri should he be naturalised. But im sure someone will emerge for the long term like rooney and owen emerged for england. What italy have at present tho is ageing albeit still brilliant superstars in ADP, Inzaghe, and Totti, and a prolific striker at club level in Toni, and squad men like Gilardino and the rest.

[gundamalpha]

No one mention Giuseppe Rossi. I think he's the future for the Italian No. 9

Edit: How embarrassing mistaken with the legend

[Xander Crews]

Again we can agree to disagree. But it does seem to me you only consider a traditional no 9 in the mould of 80's players like linekar ,rush and voeller as strikers and you dont see the no 10 type striker or the more modern type striker with all round skill as a "striker" per se.
Maybe this is an issue of sermantics but trust me Rooney is a striker! He doesnt get in the box all the time and sometimes plays deep but the responsibility for the vast majority of the goals is on his shoulders along with a core of 3-4 players in the man utd side.

Owen is what i would call an out and out striker , the "fox in the box" as we call em in england.
Crouch is a very skilled ball player and underated player. He's twice the player jenas is. Jenas is a poor mans andy cole. Beleive it or not but emile heskey was once seen as a traditional english striker. He's reveled himself since as a fast powerful guy albeit one who falls down too easy, with underrated skill and awareness but an increasingly lousy inability to score more than 5 goals a season.

Italy do need fresh blood but in a similar vein to scholes and giggs, ADP and inzaghe are such special talents that even the older versions of them are better than 80% of what else is out there. I mean in 15 years of the premiership the UK has not produced 1 other player on the left wing with half of giggs talent let alone speed,longevity and proffesionalim. Scholes although as flamboyant a talent on the field as he is quiet off it, is less rare, Gerrard and Lampard although different in style are the same multi talented attacking central midfielders.

anyway i digress, I agree with you that toni isnt the future , at least long term, since the guy is 31. But for the next couple of years he may be as good as it gets in regards to the traditional striker in the italian side. he has replaced Vieri who looks finished at 34. I agree also that Gilardino and Aquafresca arent the future either. Neither Iaquinta or Amauri should he be naturalised. But im sure someone will emerge for the long term like rooney and owen emerged for england. What italy have at present tho is ageing albeit still brilliant superstars in ADP, Inzaghe, and Totti, and a prolific striker at club level in Toni, and squad men like Gilardino and the rest.

I don't like to call Rooney a striker because of where he actually plays on the field. On the attack he may move up with Tevez, but most of the time he's playing the AMF position. And I don't want to talk about the merits of Crouch, other than that they cease at his wife.

Acquafresca is very young. The poor guy plays for Cagliari. He needs to move to another team. He needs to go to Juventus. Home town player. It would do wonders for him. Especially to be with guys like Trez and ADP. Giuseppe Rossi did the right thing - got the fuck out of Italy and made it to the Spanish League, where people can actually score.He might be the real future of Italian strikers.

[rugal2000]

"I don't like to call Rooney a striker because of where he actually plays on the field. On the attack he may move up with Tevez, but most of the time he's playing the AMF position. And I don't want to talk about the merits of Crouch, other than that they cease at his wife."



he's a classic no 10 striker!

[gundamalpha]

I doubt Rooney will be where he's at now (hype, money) if he isn't an English. He's good, but not "legend" material. Gazza was more influential to the English team even in Euro 96 compare to Rooney in Euro 2008.

Back to Italians, where are the young bloods in their most important positions, the defense?

[rugal2000]

Good point. Here we are preoccupied with attack and its defence whereu got a 40 year old man still at the heart of the most powerful defence in european club football.
Making a point here as well, in the 1990's and very early 2000's it seems there were more "stars". Guys like Marco Matterazi and Andrea Pistone, and gennaro gattuso who later got into the national side and became stars were plying their trade in second rate english and scottish clubs in the late 90's.
There do seem to be a hell of a lot of south americans in defensive positions at the leading Italian clubs.

[rugal2000]

In regards to Rooney he's already at 23 accomplished more than Gascoigne did in a whole career and yes the champions league and premiership medals aside that also includes his contribution to the english team and worth as a player.

Who knows what Rooney would have done at euro 2004 if he hadnt got injured. His time will come at the 2010 world cup when he will be 25.

All Gascoigne did was do well at italia 90 and score that goal against scotland in euro 96. His club career was only distinguished at Rangers for a few years in the mid 90's and c'mon thats scotland for fucks sake.

[Xander Crews]

Good point. Here we are preoccupied with attack and its defence whereu got a 40 year old man still at the heart of the most powerful defence in european club football.
Making a point here as well, in the 1990's and very early 2000's it seems there were more "stars". Guys like Marco Matterazi and Andrea Pistone, and gennaro gattuso who later got into the national side and became stars were plying their trade in second rate english and scottish clubs in the late 90's.
There do seem to be a hell of a lot of south americans in defensive positions at the leading Italian clubs.

Come on. We're talking about Italian defence now? Other than Chiellini the rest of the defence is old, ready to go into retirement. Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini - who is going to step up to their places?

[rugal2000]

"Come on. We're talking about Italian defence now? Other than Chiellini the rest of the defence is old, ready to go into retirement. Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini - who is going to step up to their places?



er,earth to wasabi, thats exactly what im saying the defence is way older than the attack! yet we havent even discussed that!.

Now u tell me, is it down to a general decline in the quality of younger italian defenders or is it the fact that the older guard such as the above and such as cannavaro and zambrotta are THAT good and thus irreplaceable in the national side right now , even if its time to get the geritol and walking stick out chronologically speaking?

I mean lets remember these guys are world champions!