SNK's 'next' system

Apparently SNK was working on a new Arcade/Home Console when Aruze bought them out.

Pulled directly from Insert Credit:

Today at the Austin Game Developers conference (that's my excuse for the slow updates) I met with a friend who used to work for SNK in Japan. I can't say his name, but his information is certainly reliable. You may recall some time ago that SNK, pre-Aruze purchase, announced that it was working on its next hardware - everyone assumed this was the Neo Geo Pocket 2, or something to that effect. I asked this fellow about it, and he told me that wasn't quite correct. SNK poured a lot of money into the development of a new chip - and this chip was to be used as the foundation for next-gen arcade hardware, as well as a next-gen home console. As time wore on and money got tighter, development slowed, and other next gen home consoles started to come out, and the new SNK chip looked "a bit silly" in comparison. The chip could have also been used in a handheld device, which was probably the last thing they considered once the home console market looked like it had moved beyond them.

"Much better than Neo Geo 64," is what he said to me. Development was abandoned entirely when Aruze took over, but it was meant to compete with other consoles within the 1999~2000 timeframe. Apparently the chip itself looked very good, and at the time it was conceived, it was the absolute top of the line. I'm sure documentation and prototypes exist within SNK's home office in Osaka - one can only imagine what it would've become

Let me also pose this question, now that i've had more time to digest this:

Did Aruze save SNK? Would SNK have survived if this supposed wonderchip was put into action or would they have suffered another NG64-type defeat?

If it could have been launched in 2000, and been really phenomenal at a close to competitive price it might have at least got into xbox's portion of sales, that's a lot of if's though.

Sundance said:

Let me also pose this question, now that i've had more time to digest this:

Did Aruze save SNK? Would SNK have survived if this supposed wonderchip was put into action or would they have suffered another NG64-type defeat?

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Aruze didn´t really SAVE SNK...

With the new hardware gettin´into action, SNK would have made it... too bad they couldn´t do it...

They could have gotten 5-10% marketshare, tops IMO. Software selection would have to be much greater and more affordable.. hardware as well.

Looks like i need to go raid the home office. I better start working on a task force.


As for them makeing it i can only agree with above post except maybe id say 10-15%.

The only way they could have made it would have been to produce another high margin cult console like the Neo Geo was in it's heyday.

The company was not and is not designed to do mass market work. They're not a large enough shop to churn out enough SKUs to make money on games that are going to sell in relatively low volume at the kind of market share they're typically going to have and at current market prices for games ($50 to $60 for home games, less if you're going value, which is honestly the segment where SNK's been pricing a lot lately).

Even if they could provide that many SKUs, then you're still talking about "arcade experience" games, which most of the market seems to have moved past (must as I hate that, it's true, a million people aren't going to spend sixty bucks to buy Mark of the Wolves on Xbox unless you pack it in with a half dozen other games).

Hopefully the XBLA/PSN/VC will be kind to SNK and they can really get properly back on their feet, because lately they've been the same way that SEGA has been since they lost their hardware. Just totally a ship without wind in their sails. The product's all been rehashes and re-releases, the new stuff has mostly sucked ass, and the arcadey stuff that they're best known for is no longer a money-making part of the market.

Seriously, just look at the sales of VF5. Tell me that they're making a lot of money on that.

Capcom, like it or not, isn't making more 2D fighters because they can make more money selling 2.5D remakes of Mega Man games. It has nothing to do with development resources, it has to do with market interest, profit margins, and the amount of revenue they can expect to get on any given release vs the amount of personnel and time that it takes to make a game that won't suck.

Bah, my anger overflows.

A company COULD come around and do now what SNK and SEGA did back in the day, but they would have to do it practically on their own. You'd have to get Namco in on the action, and you'd have to populate every arcade that's left from coast to coast in Japan and sea to shining sea in the US with cheap machines. THEN you would have to advertise up the wazoo, maybe get a TV series for one of your franchises, put downscale versions of the games on the mass market consoles, or mini-games within the franchise into the DLC channel, and you make your console cost a thousand bucks, with the games costing four or five hundred bucks each, but you build them out of solid fucking gold and nothing but RAM.

Make them utterly silent, arcade perfect, with the highest quality arcade components that money can buy, and you would get a tiny fraction of the market that would be your devoted sex slaves forever.

Oh, and you'd better put DVD Jon and the other 10 most talented cryptographic minds in the world on that team to make sure no one can steal your shit.

SNK's game was shot when they started doing quality ports to Saturn and Playstation. If you can have a game that's 70%, then most people are no longer going to be interested in getting the other 30% for a couple hundred dollars more.

But, if you give them 50% for ten bucks...that's magic. I think you can get somewhere doing that.

interesting, but I'm pretty sure that this hardware would have failed horribly, probably even if they had it in a handheld. I think many of you are being too generous with the "5-15%" marketshare. Many of you seem to forget, most people have absolutely no idea what SNK or Neo-Geo is, some people know what Samurai Shodown or King of Fighters is, but still many don't even know what they are. If they were to release a system with little to no third party support (which would've more than likely been the case) it would've definitely failed. Especially if it wasn't a budget system. Look at the Dreamcast, it was a great system with good third party support, coming from a way more recognizable name in the biz (Sega), and it failed.

It's fun to think of the what if's and all, but realistically, it would've failed. This is all obviously just my opinion, but I feel it's way more down to Earth.

SEGA's a special case. They were bankrupt. They ran out of money.

However, in this case, it's still an apt comparison, since so was SNK.

an interesting find, but I'm not if this would have done much in terms of profit.

Shame it never saw the light of day and SNK went more or less down.

It would have been less successful than its predecessor.

This thread makes no sense whatsoever.

FalcomAdol said:

Capcom, like it or not, isn't making more 2D fighters because they can make more money selling 2.5D remakes of Mega Man games.

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they sold so poorly that there will not be any more of those on the psp.

You guys thinking that SNK could have gotten 5-15% of the market share are off your rocker. Nintendo had ~15% of the market share with the GC. Do you really think a SNK console could have done that?

EvilMike said:

You guys thinking that SNK could have gotten 5-15% of the market share are off your rocker. Nintendo had ~15% of the market share with the GC. Do you really think a SNK console could have done that?

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No. Please do not attempt to take this thread seriously.

It will only bring you pain.

Interesting find...

on the arcade use of it. I think it would have done fairly better, but given the crystal system success, i have my doubts on that.

nevertheless, had it been released not much after kof 2k, i think it might have had a chance. If SNK could still sell it in mass quantities like it did with the MVS and at a decent price. I think it could have seen its sucess in areas of the globe where it once had sucess before (Latin America, Asia).

on the console side, it sounds like it could have competed head to head with the DC at least in Japan.

Sundance said:

"Much better than Neo Geo 64," is what he said to me.

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...not saying a whole lot

I dunno: I don't think this would've been very successful. It's not exactly like the Atomiswave did a whole lot, and yes I know wasn't quite theirs, but I also don't think SNK was all that good at successfully selling their hardware. I firmly believe the success of the MVS had a lot to do with unforseen, positive consequences.

The MVS-based hardware was years ahead of its time. The H64 was behind from the get-go, and the NGPC was quickly overtaken by the next gen of gameboy. As far as a new console goes, SNK could have had a winner on their hands if this chip put their new console as far ahead of the PS2/XB1/GC as the MVS was ahead of the SNES/Genesis/TG16.

Problem is, the software is the piece that proves the hardware is that far ahead. Even today, for someone else's console, SNKP can't make a game that eclipses the competition's capabilities. I'm not sure that, given a wonderchip, SNK could have made a suite of games that utilizes the chip so effectively it beats out PS2/XB1/GC. Their command of 3D and next-gen 2D would have to be masterful, whereas with SNKP today they are just scraping the surface of next-gen 2D, and their 3D efforts are only passable.

So, unless their talent level prior to the Aruze breakup was insane, a new system couldn't have saved SNK even in the best case scenario because they wouldn't have been able to make the games needed to justify the system.

neojedi said:

The MVS-based hardware was years ahead of its time. The H64 was behind from the get-go, and the NGPC was quickly overtaken by the next gen of gameboy. As far as a new console goes, SNK could have had a winner on their hands if this chip put their new console as far ahead of the PS2/XB1/GC as the MVS was ahead of the SNES/Genesis/TG16.

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I'm not sure that it was.

It was ahead of the home consoles, but it was on par with the arcade versions of those consoles (particularly System 16). Most of what it took to differentiate the arcade experience from the home experience was ROM size, a decent scaler, and higher clock speeds so that the system could handle more sprites and larger tiled sprites.

And yes, execution in software. The top studios are no longer putting good teams on arcade games, they're putting them on multi-million dollar long form home games.

The smaller scale space is going digital distribution, and the current consoles are a very good place to showcase that kind of product since they have a built in system for payment processing and far more than enough generalized power to handle any short form game that you want to throw at it.

Maybe you have to go in some completely different direction. It might take a new short form genre to drive people back to the arcades at this point. Either that or a massive revival of an old genre. Guilty Gear and Senko no Ronde aren't doing it, even though they're excellent games in their own right. I can't even imagine what it would take to get the mass market off their couches at this point.

Just thinking what would have happened to a hardware,released around 2000, with a software library that consists 85% percent of beat-em-ups hurts me...

..but not as bad as the thought of SNK trying to produce something in more popular genres...an ego-shooter maybe?

THE SUPER SPY 3D...yeah!

I nominate Falcom Adol as best new member of 07.

Words well spoken throughout this thread.

Moose said:

I nominate Falcom Adol as best new member of 07.

Words well spoken throughout this thread.

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Fuck, I must be in for a banning

To get back to the initial post, I saw a mention of this SNK chip today on G4 along the bottom line scroll during an airing of Ninja Warrior. G4 made it seem like it was a current chip designed for today's market since it just vaguely mentioned the item and didn't reference any time scale.

The home consoles of today are equally good, or sometimes better, than the arcade systems in terms of CPU and graphic power, so what should an arcade system look like that beats the actual home console generation for the next 4-5 Years? And how much would it cost?

I think that today the arcade games only advantage is by providing you a special experience through extraordinary hardware. Like hydraulic components, flawless working light pistols, etc.

Example: Starblade
I loved it in the arcades and I still love to play it at home. But nothing compares to the experience of sitting in kind of a cockpit, having an analog steering device for firing, an subwoofer under your bottom and a special "bend mirror display" (don't know better words to describe this) which made you dizzy on some scenes.
I felt like a starship gunner with this game and that experience can't be copied by simple home systems.

The golden age of electronic entertainement in the arcades is gone and I don't believe that it will come back.

To get back on topic: building an expensive arcade system, that will be beaten by the next (or even actual) home console generation makes no sense. Better spend the money into special hardware components which are either to big or to expensive for the home market. Or try to keep the hardware costs low and approach, for example, the hardcore shooter fans who give a shit about the newest shader models.
I predict that we won't see a new arcade system by SNK in the future. Bummer!

(oh boy, so much text and so little english knowledge. sry, but I hope you will understand my writings)