KOF 2K1 is a hot bowl of rump fudge.

Loopz · May 18, 2002

I had the (priviledge?) of playing a good 3 hours of The King Of Fighters 2001 last evening. I had heard a great variety of opinions on this site and others, so I was aniticipating playing this game quite a bit. Good Lord was I mistaken.

I've never played a fighting game with worse art. Can anyone explain to me the inspiration behind Yuri's win portrait? Was the artist smoking crack and watching Jungle Book? I thought KOF 2000's backgrounds suffered from a tiny palette, but those were more colorful than a 3 day acid trip compared to the atrocities in KOF2K1.

Playwise, this game is marginally better than the two striker-plagued turds preceding it, but still this game cannot even compare to the true classics of the series ('98, '96.) Anyone who would claim such a thing simply has never played enough of the real KOFs. I still can't believe this game managed to get an 8.7 from GameSpot. If this game gets an 8.7, than KOF '98 gets a 13 out of 10. "Best KOF since '98" may actually apply, but damn that doesn't mean much when every other title in the series ('94-'98) still smokes the new one.

Musically, KOF 2K1 is hella forgettable...take the blandest techno music you've heard from any next generation game, dither it down with an old Yamaha sound chip, and you've got the soundtrack from KOF2K1. This is particularly annoying for a series with such a rich musical tradition. There aren't a ton of different KOF soundtracks for no reason.

The bosses in KOF 2K1 are quite possibly the cheapest sons of bitches in any game, EVER. Can someone explain to me the logic in having a boss with an unlimited super gauge, who takes off 10% for even the smallest block damage, and can completely wipe you out at the beginning of the round if you eat one super? Granted, SNK had a loooooong and rich tradition of cheap bosses (Rugal, Goenitz, Mizuki) but there were ways once you learned them. These bosses are SO unfun to play, that even if there is a feasible way to defeat them short of running until time runs out, I don't care about sticking around long enough to learn.

I had found comfort in the fact that there was this new entity creating and putting out new titles for the beloved Neo...but if this is what constitutes a "great" new Neo fighter, then SNK is TRULY DEAD. Unfortunately, Metal Slug 4 will likely provide further fuel for this feeling. Dull gameplay, even duller backgrounds and a shitty soundtrack are NOT the calling cards of the real King Of Fighters titles. I can seriously say without any hesitation that EVERY KOF title before '99 ranks above this steaming pile. The only positive thing I can pull from this experience is that I saved $300 by playing a friend's copy...which is $300 I can spend on a real SNK classic like Last Blade 2 or Neo Turf Masters.

Captain Spain · May 18, 2002

Sorry but 3 hours of playing KOF2k1 is not long enough to judge this game; When I played it for the 1st time I thought 2k1 was nothing to write home about as well yet now I'm conviced it's a great KOF *indeed*

I also find it funny that you compare it with '96 (of all KOFs!) specially taking into account how much stiff the controls were back then and how much of a cheap bastard Goenitz used to be...

'sides, having really CHEAP bastards as final bosses is like a SNK trademark or something so what's your point?

BBH · May 18, 2002

Originally posted by Captain Spain:

I also find it funny that you compare it with '96 (of all KOFs!) specially taking into account how much stiff the controls were back then and how much of a cheap bastard Goenitz used to be...<hr></blockquote>

No kidding! '96 is crap. Besides the stiff control, game balance was way off... there's just no easy way of beating an Iori-Leona-Mature team. There was so much cheap shit in that game it was crazy. CD attacks were too good in general.

While '95 has its flaws too, I think '95 was a much better game than '96, and I feel it should be mentioned as one of the KoF "classics" along with '98.

And KoF 2001 sucks a nut. Period.

Loopz · May 18, 2002

'sides, having really CHEAP bastards as final bosses is like a SNK trademark or something so what's your point?
<hr></blockquote>

I DID mention that cheap bosses is an SNK tradition if you actually read the post. But there's cheap, and "Ohmygod this is so fucking stupid." When super attacks do LITERALLY THREE PIXELS OF DAMAGE, or actually LESS than the block damage you eat when blocking a super, that's fuckin retarded.

While '95 has its flaws too, I think '95 was a much better game than '96, and I feel it should be mentioned as one of the KoF "classics" along with '98.

<hr></blockquote>

Well, we've disagreed on this before, as I think the damage is set way too high in '95, along with what I feel is vastly superior music and BG's in 96. But at least we agree that KOF 2001 does indeed suck a big hairy nut.

Click to expand...

J' Kusanagi · May 18, 2002

:o I'm so sick of this "KOF 98 is GOD" bullshit. 96,97, 99, 2000 are much better, 98 was just a non storyline connected rehash of 97 without Orochi(the god of all SNK bosses), Orochi Iori and Leona(two of SNK's best creations ever).

Clear Paper · May 18, 2002

Hee.. I think KOF 2001 is very innovative in gameplay. True, the backgrounds have really washed out colours, the music is forgettable and some of the character art is down-right atrocious, but they brought in lots of modifications to all the characters.

I quite like the idea of reverting to unconventional moves which were phased out from '96 onwards, and bringing some moves from all the other games. Highlighted are some things I like about this game.

K'9999's Moon and Gun DM - luckily I'm a Geese player. And his Tetsuo SDM, nice. Amusing that they made the execution short and unconventional. Luckily, I'm a Brocken user too.

Xiangfei's 3-hit DM - from Real Bout 2, woohoo! And it's easier to perform than in RB2. Her counter moves, though they are not too practical to pull off. When I first played 2001, I was wondering why, with the difficulty of her counters being successfully executed, they didn't give her a bigger reward, like May Lee's counter being linkable to a DM or a CD attack. In RB2, at least her up-counter could be linked to her uc B then her charge DM. (u.A counter -> uc B -> f hcf BC) Time may prove me wrong. Haven't tried her fully yet. Sometime's her grab SDM shows a 2001- hit combo. lol

Joe's Tiger Kick DM - reminiscent of Fatal Fury 1 which I think had the best Tiger Kick. Anyone remember how exciting it was to fight HwaJai(sic?)? It would have been nice if they did not put in the flash at the start of this DM and just make it rush out like in FF1. Rrarrja!! Oooo.. Rrrrr tiger. lol

Blue Mary's rising grab DM - like in Real Bout Special's Alternate Mary.

Ryo's Ryuuko Ranbu SDM, reminiscent of Art of Fighting 1. The very first real desperation move which completely took me by surprise after I had played the game for months when it was first released. Quite possibly the first DM in the history of all fighting games. (AOF1 came out before Fatal Fury Special.)

Yuri's continued parody of Street Fighter shoto characters, having a new Raging Demon DM. The 'Tian' pose of Akuma's is damn funny.

Benimaru's Triple Resist Kick from KOF '95, now with it being a Wire Attack, can be linked to a Raikoken. Sweet. And finally his fB kick can be chained.

Goro! being back. Fantastic. And not insanely cheap as before with a super fast+high priorty dfC. His jumping CD being a wire attack and can be linked to a dfC -> hcf A (air grab). Cool..

Iori! wow. His movements appear to be a bit more loose now. Like as if his physique recticle is smaller so he seems to be able to get closer to the opponent. Nice tweak of his 3-hit qcb P moves. With them being able to adapt to his different specials and DM. And his SDM from DM. Mmmm nice. I thought it sad that they had to take away is 96/97's SDM (as he was not influenced by the Orochi.. blah blah) where he squats by the fallen opponent and pummels them into the ground, and replaced it with the silly exploding one in 99. With this new one, they also incorporate the essense of his purple tower blast DM 97/98.

Seth, my favorite character in 2000, made less abusive and requiring more skill to master. His air-counter is more beautiful and less abusive. (you gotta love the animation of him slamming the opponent to the ground)

Lin has a weird combo, dB -> D -> fA -> ruc C -> ruc B -> jumpCD. Sweet! Quite nice to look at. Try it!

Ramon is so much more interesting in terms of moves and openers available. Might actually try to master him.

Heidern along with Leona on the same team for the first time! And no charging moves! Shoto demon! I use him to back up my May Lee and K'9999 team up. Too useful.

May Lee, currently my favorite character. Her stance changing is so useful. e.g. some bread-and-butter combos I use in a real match effectively,

dB -> dA -> qcf B (1 hit) -> hcb B -> ABC -> D -> qcf A.
This combo starts with a low opener. And does the most damage of its class without a DM and a corner.

dB -> dA -> qcf B (1 hit) -> hcb B -> ABC -> dB -> dA -> qcf x2 AC
For when you have 2 stocks. Low opener. And does MASSIVE damage.

Cornered opponent-
jD -> D -> fB (opponent launches) -> qcf B (1 hit) -> uc B -> hcb B -> ABC -> qcf A
The starting part sequence gives you enough time to think of doing the combo and is the most easy to time of the juggling sequence, compared to the uc D -> hcb D or hero stance dC launches.

The rest of the combos are not practical, try this insane combo.
Opponent cornered -
jump-in D -> D -> qcf B (1 hit) -> hcb B -> ABC -> dC -> opponent launches -> -> ABC -> qcf B (1 hit) -> uc B -> hcb B -> ABC -> qcb A -> qcf x2 P
The dC doesn't hit a crouching opponent; after the opponent launches, the qcf B must be timed very well such that only the 1st hit hits; the qcb A will not hit if the initial qcf B hits too low. If you can do it in the arcade, I bow to your combo god skills. Notice the listed combos do not show any strikers? That's because I haven't learnt how to use them yet! HAHAH!! There's still so much gameplay in this cart! Plus I haven't used half the characters either too!

Don't know if these combos are on vids or not but I came up with them in the past two weeks playing her. If I can do it, so can you!

Athena's SDM is way to cool. It would have been nice if it didn't have the failed sequence with her falling on her bum. I loved RBS Geese's Deadly Rave (9 hits) -> A B fC bC -> Cruel Intention (b f B) -> hop fwd -> Gust Slash (air qcb A) -> land -> pursuit move. Seems impossible until you see it. Anyway, haven't experimented enough with Athena yet but she can juggle a opponent with Crystal Bit DM after her deadly rave. Opponent in/near corner, jump-in D -> C -> Deadly Rave +qcf P -> opponent bounces off wall -> Shining Crystal Bit (up to 4 bounces!)

Terry seems more or less the same but if his qcf C contacts the opponent, you can immediately do another special. Have't tried him enough to see the combo possibilities. Probably will have to use it as a juggle.

King's Surprise Rose DM, like from Art of Fighting 2. Nice touch. Amusingly, I can't seem to do it anymore in AOF2. Infuriating. lol

Takuma is EXACTLY the same. woah? ZzzZz...

Bao, what is on with his flying about! Gotta try it. Quite interesting. Especially when the computer does the combo on me. Wierd. I swear he's a little bigger too now. Still hate his hat though.

Foxy, Japan's voted Highest Tier Character. I thought she was a bit dull but trying her a little bit recently has shown her to have mcuh potential. Hey, those guys must know something, right?

Chang not a charging character anymore!! So much more useful as a combo guy compared to in previous incarnations. Must try him.

Choi's air juggling (d.u K -> fP -> fP -> fP) can end in some special or move. Like in KOF '97. Haven't tried him enough yet.

Angel another well designed character. Her chains deserve much time to explore. Truly bizarre. She'll probably take me more time to learn her basic moves than it did for me to use May Lee effectively in a match.

All the new characters are really well-designed. Much more so than Seth, Ramon and Vanessa (Rick Strowd clone) in KOF 2000.

Overall, I have a feeling there was a lot
of love put into the gameplay. Many intricate moves and designs were implemented that just seemed to have been brewing in the minds of the programmers, be they new or the old ones. Of course, foul background - hardly any parallex scrolling -previous KOFs had such beautiful introductions to the stages, 94 (wow!), 95, 97, 98. The only interesting thing I've seem in 2001 is the increased activity of the spectators in the Venice stage where they cheer VERY much faster. Vaguely amusing. Gameplay is top notch and it feels like they really got it down.

Crikes. That's a long post. I guess I really like this game.

[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: Clear Paper ]

[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: Clear Paper ]

YeldellGW · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by J' Kusanagi:
98 was just a non storyline connected rehash of 97 without Orochi(the god of all SNK bosses), Orochi Iori and Leona(two of SNK's best creations ever).<hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

rarehero · May 19, 2002

god.
finally.
someone has some sense.

Loopz · May 19, 2002

J'Kusanagi said:

I'm so sick of this "KOF 98 is GOD" bullshit. 96,97, 99, 2000 are much better, 98 was just a non storyline connected rehash of 97 without Orochi(the god of all SNK bosses), Orochi Iori and Leona(two of SNK's best creations ever).

If you're too slow to recognize the fucking ocean of gameplay improvements to '98 over '97, there's nothing I can say to fix it. Rehash? THAT WAS THE POINT. "Dream Match." An assload of characters, alternate fixes, and perfect feel blend to create the ultimate Neo vs. fighter. Like I said, if I want a story I'll watch a DVD. I play fighting games against friends for hours, and in this regard, '98 brings ultimate satisfaction. There's a simple philosophical rift here, and it centers around strikers. If you dig 'em, of course you'd enjoy 99-01. I thought they were one of Capcom's worst ideas, and then, lo and behold, SNK goes and rips off the idea. Isn't it supposed to work the other way around?

Clear Paper, that's one hell of an analysis, I respect you for tearing apart that game and knowing so much about it. Still doesn't change my opinion of it though.

[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: Loopz ]

Captain Spain · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by Loopz:
 There's a simple philosophical rift here, and it centers around strikers. If you dig 'em, of course you'd enjoy 99-01. I thought they were one of Capcom's worst ideas, and then, lo and behold, SNK goes and rips off the idea. Isn't it supposed to work the other way around?
<hr></blockquote>

HEY! <img src="graemlins/blowtop.gif" border="0" alt="[Blow Top]" />

The strikers thingie never was a Crapcom original idea to begin with; They ripped it off from SNK just like many other things...

Team assist was present in KOF since '94

Tag Team mode was introduced by SNK's Kizuna Encounter in '96 (before Crapcom's MSHvsSF was released)

Loopz · May 19, 2002

HEY!

The strikers thingie never was a Crapcom original idea to begin with; They ripped it off from SNK just like many other things...

Team assist was present in KOF since '94

Tag Team mode was introduced by SNK's Kizuna Encounter in '96 (before Crapcom's MSHvsSF was released)
<hr></blockquote>

Yes, the idea has roots in other games, although I'd hardly call the team assist much of striker attack. You can't call the appearance of strikers in KOF (apppearing first in that series in 1999) much of a coincidence after Capcom's wildly popular X-Men VS SF and the MvC series. In terms of the chaotic, six guys on screen bullshit and 48 hit combos, it definitely owes a direct debt to Capcom's stupidity.

yagamikun · May 19, 2002

KOF 2K1 was impressive when I played it on Emu (but who can really tell anything from an emu?) to see if it was cool or not. Sure the BG's, music, and art plain sucked, the gameplay was deffinatly there, and that is the most important part. That and the redone voice on some of the characters was pretty cool. Curretly my fave KOF is 2000 only because it was a much better version of 99 (my previous fave kof) and is my favorite cart in my small collection as I am rebuilding. Just my personal preference...now I have to wait for the flames telling me how much better 98 is. <img src="graemlins/glee.gif" border="0" alt="[Glee]" />

Fran · May 19, 2002

i am not even going to say something

let me just weep openly

VinylBoy · May 19, 2002

I think KOF '98 is the best in the whole KOF series, but even I still think KOF 2K1 is pretty good. My GOD people, EVERYTHING just can't be just something from the past, or even worse, another continuation of it. If that was the case, the whole idea of gameplay would be stuck back in 1994!

Stop looking for what KOF2K1 doesn't have. and check out what it's trying to do. There's a lot of great ideas and features in this game (some better than others), and I'd MUCH rather play this one than KOF 2000. Sure, it's not the best in the series, but to consider it to be a worthless piece of shite is just being overjudgemental and stubborn.

Get with the program... Respect the classics, however, we should look forward to making new ones. As it said in the advertisement... TRADITION IS FOR CHUMPS!

Takumaji · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by Fran:
i am not even going to say something

let me just weep openly<hr></blockquote>

BTW... if I may interrupt this thread...

Fran, the link in your sig is... is... oh my, I laughed for an hour or so... Seppuku with a Frisbee... no, that's too much, THANKS!!

Oh, and Loopz, 2k1 is cool. But you won't find that out in three hours.

eddicef · May 19, 2002

I am rather dissapointed as well! I played it the first two days and now it is just collecting dust.
My favorite KoF is KoF´95.

J' Kusanagi · May 19, 2002

I am rather dissapointed as well! I played it the first two days and now it is just collecting dust. <hr></blockquote> Well why don't you sell the damn thing to me or someone who can appreciate innovation eddie!!?

And you guys who love KOF 98 so damn much, then sell all you other KOFs and only keep 98. oooooohhh <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" /> :rollseyes: Gimme a break.

[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: J' Kusanagi ]

Fran · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by VinylBoy:
I think KOF '98 is the best in the whole KOF series, but even I still think KOF 2K1 is pretty good. My GOD people, EVERYTHING just can't be just something from the past, or even worse, another continuation of it. If that was the case, the whole idea of gameplay would be stuck back in 1994!

Stop looking for what KOF2K1 doesn't have. and check out what it's trying to do. There's a lot of great ideas and features in this game (some better than others), and I'd MUCH rather play this one than KOF 2000. Sure, it's not the best in the series, but to consider it to be a worthless piece of shite is just being overjudgemental and stubborn.

Get with the program... Respect the classics, however, we should look forward to making new ones. As it said in the advertisement... TRADITION IS FOR CHUMPS!<hr></blockquote>

couldnt agree more

2001 does have SHITTY bgs and music

thats called COMPROMISE

you want 293892389 well animated fighters

ok

you also get ugly bgs

just think about motw,and compare the quality of the animations / music / bgs

and think about the number of available fighters

having said that,
motw is boring and 12 fighters just arent enough

while we are always playing 2001 AND 98

and they both rock

plus,
2001 is more balanced than 98

so....

J' Kusanagi · May 19, 2002

Finally some cool posters to knock KOF 98 off its Golden glass throne. Jeez!!!

eddicef · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by J' Kusanagi:
 Well why don't you sell the damn thing to me or someone who can appreciate innovation eddie!!?
[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: J' Kusanagi ]<hr></blockquote>
I can´t, I collect the games

Fran · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by J' Kusanagi:
Finally some cool posters to knock KOF 98 off its Golden glass throne. Jeez!!!<hr></blockquote>

hope you werent referring to me,
cos i still believe 98 is the "best" one

having said that,
i'm a kof purist and i love them all (2000 aside)

98 is just the perfect one for versus matches
2001 is a good runner up,though...

VinylBoy · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by Fran:
2001 does have SHITTY bgs and music

thats called COMPROMISE
<hr></blockquote>

Exactly... I'm more than willing to sacrifice supreme graphics for better game play. The visuals are nice, but it's about how the game plays. I'm finding some very interesting twists in KOF 2001... some are good and some are ones I'm going to have to get used to (like how they altered Chin's gameplay). But all in all, I like the direction they're going in (despite the somewhat strange graphics). When the game plays, it's still KOF... and that's the most important thing to me than anything else.

And Kusanagi... it's easier for people like us who own all of the KOFs on home cart and play them still to judge which game is the best in the series. Go to any SNK based message board and make a poll, and I guarantee that people will always place KOF 98 on top. It's all a matter of opinion, but this is something that has rang true constantly.

Loopz · May 19, 2002

It's a basic philosophical difference really...

You either dig the striker thing or you don't.
I think strikers are a bad idea in any fighting game, regardless of who created the idea. See, when Capcom starting running out of real ideas (like for entirely new characters, moves) that's when they decided to pile on the "Systems" (Three level super bar, custom combos, tag-in, assists). To me, those are really shallow ways of creating artificial depth. You wanna create depth? How about some entirely new characters and moves. Don't come up with bullshit ways to 'deepen' your fighting with gauges and gadgets that don't really add anything to the fighting. That's why people still play Hyper Fighting/Super Turbo and Samurai Shodown 2. Because the real complexity lies in the character on character matchups, not trying to crush someone's guard meter by abusing custom combos or whatever. Creator laziness led to the decline of fighting games, nothing more. That's why KOF '98 kicks so much ass...it has gadgets like rolls, tech throws, and two different kind of power meters, but the real strategy of the game lies in the character matchups. The best fighting games will always come down to this, not exploiting bugs and gimmicks.

Caris Nautilus · May 19, 2002

Originally posted by Captain Spain:
Sorry but 3 hours of playing KOF2k1 is not long enough to judge this game; When I played it for the 1st time I thought 2k1 was nothing to write home about as well yet now I'm conviced it's a great KOF *indeed*

I also find it funny that you compare it with '96 (of all KOFs!) specially taking into account how much stiff the controls were back then and how much of a cheap bastard Goenitz used to be...

'sides, having really CHEAP bastards as final bosses is like a SNK trademark or something so what's your point?<hr></blockquote>

Playing the rom doesn't count Immature, dirt boy.

gargoyle7 · May 19, 2002

I must admit, I feel the need to defend the backgrounds to a point. Granted they are different from past games, I see them as simply a different style w/more natural colors. True, some are very uninspired (USA is total shite), but others are very original and offbeat (Korea & Japan).

Lee (garg7)
<a href="http://www.neogeotemple.com" target="_blank">http://www.neogeotemple.com</a>

KOF 2K1 is a hot bowl of rump fudge.

Formerly Punjab,

Kula's Candy

1cc my ASS!,

Formerly Punjab,

Hardened Shock Trooper

,

Bartender,

Rotterdam Nation Resident,

Formerly Punjab,

Kula's Candy

Formerly Punjab,

Mauru's Zoo Manager

today forever

Vanessa's Drinking Buddy,

Krautmin

NEST Puppet

Hardened Shock Trooper

today forever

Hardened Shock Trooper

NEST Puppet

today forever

Vanessa's Drinking Buddy,

Formerly Punjab,

Caris Nautilus

Guest

Responsible Homecart Owner