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View Full Version : Games that dont work without -5v



Xavier
06-30-2007, 06:33 PM
I seen people asking this question alot and the answer is usually somthing like just a couple games like MK and NBA Jam. I think theres more games than that.
Heres a list of games that didnt work right on a neo-geo cab but do work ok on a standard jamma mono system with the -5v.

This list should be helpfull for people who havent moded there cab yet for mono and -5v and for people who get the small enclosed power supplies.

Mortal Kombat 3 no Sound may cause eprom erors in start up
Pit Fighter no sound
Rastan Saga no sound/glitches
Time Kilers sound vertical synch issue
Double Dragon 2 gr GLitches no sound
Raiden gr Glitches/sound
Gals Panic 2 no sound
Vball No sound
Double Dragon

Actually if you look theres a pattern, American made games and before mid 90's games.

ttooddddyy
07-01-2007, 12:12 PM
The lack of -5 vlots sould not cause gfx glitches, no sound yes, as it supplies the audio op-amps.

MottZilla
07-01-2007, 04:41 PM
I've primarily heard if you lack -5v some games sound hardware won't work. Alot of Midway games (Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, etc.) need -5v for the sound hardware and I've also heard CPS2 QSound (RCA jacks) needs it but regular Mono from the JAMMA harness doesn't. I don't think lacking -5v would cause a game not to work but it's possible I suppose. I think if you're concerned about it, or plan to play games you know require -5v or suspect they might you should use a better powersupply. I recommend using the easy to find PC ATX power supply. It's large but it will get the job done.

Monolith
07-01-2007, 06:01 PM
if you don't supply it and at the right amps Strata games including Time Killers will reboot over and over again.

LameKat
07-08-2007, 09:28 PM
Double Dragon

Neo Alec
07-09-2007, 06:17 AM
Quick tip for beginners: Check pin 5 on both sides of the jamma edge connector. If the pins don't lead to anything, the board doesn't use -5v.

I recently added -5v to my supergun (as long as I was at it -- I was upgrading the power supply), but I temporarily disconnected it again when I realized that none of my boards use it.

Great idea for a thread. I was thinking of starting one of these myself, because I was wondering if I was ever going to need to reconnect that -5v line. It's nice to know I have the future capability if I need it, anyway.

ttooddddyy
07-09-2007, 08:06 AM
It is easy to do

http://hardmvs.com/html/neg5volt.htm

Monolith
07-09-2007, 07:05 PM
Quick tip for beginners: Check pin 5 on both sides of the jamma edge connector. If the pins don't lead to anything, the board doesn't use -5v.

I recently added -5v to my supergun (as long as I was at it -- I was upgrading the power supply), but I temporarily disconnected it again when I realized that none of my boards use it.

Great idea for a thread. I was thinking of starting one of these myself, because I was wondering if I was ever going to need to reconnect that -5v line. It's nice to know I have the future capability if I need it, anyway.

Sometimes on multi layer pcbs however in the middle layer the -5 volt line is carried,so you don't see it unless the pcb is thin enough to hold a light to and look through the top. This rarely ever happens,but it does and it sucks.

dark penguin
07-28-2007, 01:22 PM
So I checked the pinouts for a bunch of jamma PCBS that I want, and some don't use the -5v, like Final Fight.
I'm wondering whether I can just plug and play some of these in my MV4F cab without too much of a problem?
Even with the PCB lacking the -5v, will there still be issues...I'm guessing
the stereo vs mono issue may still cause some problems?

Can anyone who has tried jamma PCBS that don't have the -5v lend some insight?

I've seen the -5v rewire project on hardmvs, but if the PCBs I want don't bother with the -5v to begin with, I won't need to bother with this, right?

68k
07-28-2007, 01:57 PM
I can confirm this with my Ultimate MK3 board. I get jacked up sound and rolling video.

Any idea how I can get -5V with a supergun/SC200 setup?

Xian Xi
07-28-2007, 02:32 PM
I can confirm this with my Ultimate MK3 board. I get jacked up sound and rolling video.

Any idea how I can get -5V with a supergun/SC200 setup?

The rolling video is from the vertical sync off the MK3 board which is 56khz and not 60khz and the sound is from the lack of -5v.

Is the SC200 just dual voltage switching?

dark penguin
08-08-2007, 08:46 PM
OK, so I finally got my hands on a Final Fight PCB. I am happy to report it works beautifully in my MV4F cab without any rewiring done. No sound glitches whatsoever, which is what I was worried about. Well, none that I can tell anyway, and I was scrolling through the sound test in the test mode.

One thing I'm a little confused about though...where the hell is the volume adjustment on a CPS1 boardset?? This thing sounds great, but it's set to arcade-level volume. :D

Neo Alec
08-09-2007, 12:52 AM
One thing I'm a little confused about though...where the hell is the volume adjustment on a CPS1 boardset?? This thing sounds great, but it's set to arcade-level volume. :D
There should be a volume knob on the board.

Xavier
08-09-2007, 01:04 AM
Huh guess it wont let you edit your post after a month or something.
Another game I found not working without -5v Bloodstorm, the sequal to time killers.

dark penguin
08-09-2007, 06:58 AM
There should be a volume knob on the board.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance with CPS-1 stuff, I'm not very familiar with these boardsets. I was guessing that it's the white dial on the bottom board sitting about an inch above the battery, labelled VRI...looks like it would take a philips head screwdriver. I read through the manual on the web, and it didn't say how to troubleshoot the volume level...I guess they figured arcade ops or techs would already know what the knob or switch looked like.

Er..sorry to derail this thread:D

channelmaniac
08-09-2007, 08:19 AM
You'll have to excuse my ignorance with CPS-1 stuff, I'm not very familiar with these boardsets. I was guessing that it's the white dial on the bottom board sitting about an inch above the battery, labelled VRI...looks like it would take a philips head screwdriver. I read through the manual on the web, and it didn't say how to troubleshoot the volume level...I guess they figured arcade ops or techs would already know what the knob or switch looked like.

Er..sorry to derail this thread:D


Yup! That's it.

VR1 = Variable Resistor 1

You can turn it with your fingers too.

RJ

dark penguin
08-09-2007, 09:46 AM
Yup! That's it.

VR1 = Variable Resistor 1

You can turn it with your fingers too.

RJ


Hey, thanks! I appreciate that. I'm going to adjust that today.

Doc
08-19-2007, 12:52 PM
Not sure if anyone cares, but Leland's ATAXX requires-5v to even boot. FYI:)

Xavier
08-22-2007, 06:16 PM
Ataxx isnt even a jamma game... or anything remotely close most of these leland cinematronics had some weird pinouts.

Are you using a dedicated cab or did you make a converter for it. Id be interested to see what the converter looks like.

Doc
09-03-2007, 03:03 AM
PMd

Xavier
09-05-2007, 02:16 AM
Ataxx is a jamma game, with the proper adapter !

Turtleship no sound wo/-5v
Classic Konami games need -5v for sound

Pas
09-05-2007, 02:33 AM
Toki is another that needs -5v for sound...plays fine but you can barely make out audio as there is no amplification.

astrodan88
08-21-2008, 01:20 PM
if you don't supply it and at the right amps Strata games including Time Killers will reboot over and over again.

I am wondering if anyone has any info on the amps issue. Is the "correct" amps a factor with other games mentioned?

Xian Xi
08-21-2008, 02:30 PM
The board pulls what it needs. You just have to AT LEAST have the minimum required.

jakeyboy
11-16-2008, 04:32 PM
Some boards require 5.5v like moonwalker

Xian Xi
11-16-2008, 05:30 PM
Some boards require 5.5v like moonwalker

You are gonna fry chips past 5.25v, I think it's you rig that's not pushing out 5v properly. You should never go passed 5.1v. Make sure you check it at the board not the PSU.

BLEAGH
11-23-2008, 02:57 PM
You are gonna fry chips past 5.25v, I think it's you rig that's not pushing out 5v properly. You should never go passed 5.1v. Make sure you check it at the board not the PSU.

Here in a service bulletin I've come across it states that the 5v should be raised to 5.2v


GAME:
STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE
SYMPTOMS:
EXTRA OR NO CREDITS.
LINES ON THE SCREEN.
GAMES RESET DURING PLAY
SOLUTION:
STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE IS A NON CAPCOM ‘CPS’ SYSTEM. THIS SYSTEM REQUIRES A HIGHER VOLTAGE TO OPERATE AT ITS MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE.

VCC SHOULD BE SET AT 5.20 +/- .05VDC . THIS CAN BE CHECKED BY PLACING ONE LEAD OF YOUR METER AT THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF C106, AND THE OTHER LEAD ON F1.


On my board I have raised it to 5.2v at the PSU and this has stopped the game from resetting continuously. Any ideas what the C106 and F1 it mentions is referring to?

Xian Xi
11-23-2008, 09:11 PM
Yup, so dont go past 5.25v like I said.

C106 is either cap #106 or a part number of something on the board.

bobbyconover
11-24-2008, 02:36 AM
I can confirm that NBA Maximum Hangtime loses sound when missing -5, I had a Neo-Geo candy cab for years and it was the only PCB that didn't play properly in it.

Xian Xi
01-16-2009, 11:38 AM
Some boards I sold recently needed -5v and I didn't even know until people tried to play them without -5v on their SG or cabs.

Cadash - No Sound
China Gate - No Sound, Weird Picture

If you have an arcade PSU you have -5v most likely but it may not be hooked up. Also anyone with an SC200 or SC300 PSU doesn't have -5v as well.

MadTitan
05-04-2009, 07:36 PM
Does anyone know if Thunder Dragon is one of the PCBs that needs the -5v line? It has no volume on my Egret II and i'm not sure if it's a PCB issue or the jamma harness isn't wired for the voltage.

Xian Xi
05-04-2009, 07:38 PM
Why don't you check your cab if it's wired for -5v anyway?

Neogeofan12
06-10-2009, 07:34 PM
ThunderFox requires -5v for sound. It looks like the -5v wasn't hooked up in my Egret II at all so by hooking it up the game worked perfectly.

biotech
06-14-2009, 05:15 PM
I have a modded AES console with an adapter that says it is 10v output. In reading about the Super Convertor II that is used for MVS to AES conversion it states this:

SNK's NEO•GEO AES System's uses two type of AC Adapters,one uses 5V DC , the other uses 12V DC. The label on the AC Adapter indicates which voltage the system uses.
IF the output indicates "12V DC" ,then they can use the super AC adapter;
IF the output indicates "5V DC" , then there is NO need for the super AC adapter.

With my power saying 10v I am not sure if I need the extra power adapter to play all games.....can anyone help with this....Thanks

Xian Xi
06-14-2009, 06:43 PM
I have a modded AES console with an adapter that says it is 10v output. In reading about the Super Convertor II that is used for MVS to AES conversion it states this:

SNK's NEO•GEO AES System's uses two type of AC Adapters,one uses 5V DC , the other uses 12V DC. The label on the AC Adapter indicates which voltage the system uses.
IF the output indicates "12V DC" ,then they can use the super AC adapter;
IF the output indicates "5V DC" , then there is NO need for the super AC adapter.

With my power saying 10v I am not sure if I need the extra power adapter to play all games.....can anyone help with this....Thanks

Wrong place to post this but to answer your question, yes you do need the additional PSU. Your 10v PSU doesn't supply enough juice to power the AES and converter properly. You can however use a +9v supply with at least 1.6A, I prefer 2 amps. Negative tip polarity as well.

Neogeofan12
07-28-2009, 05:19 PM
A good number of Taito stuff made in the 80s-early 90s will require -5v for sound. Cabal and Blood Bros use -5v for samples.

fighting mania
11-05-2009, 12:00 AM
add battletoads to that list ,no sound without the -5v

splatterhouse will keep resetting under 5.25 v and so will bloodstorm

i own a blast city cab and i have on 5.5v all the time and i havent fried any pcbs

partial pcb list :

age of heroes
bloodstorm
daraku tenshi
dungeon magic
hyper thlete
last apostle puppet show(yes it does exist)
pwer instinct
splatterhouse

Hewitson
11-16-2009, 11:59 PM
i own a blast city cab and i have on 5.5v all the time and i havent fried any pcbs
Won't be buying any boards off you then! :)

Xavier
11-18-2009, 08:35 PM
Yeah Id like to be able to update this thread so I can make a list on the first post, then we can verify. If a mod sees this before I ask please make it so.

Murray
11-18-2009, 09:37 PM
I looked through here and didn't see it listed so I'll add it:

Super Dodgeball (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9888), the original 1987 one. It needs -5V for sound.

Xian Xi
11-18-2009, 11:13 PM
You might as well use the wiki so you can keep updating it. That's exactly why I did it for the High score list.

Nightmare Tony
01-09-2010, 10:43 PM
If you use a JAMMA adapter to an older board such as a Williams Defender or Joust/Robotron, you MUST use -5 volts or you fry all the RAM chips. Neoi Geo cabinets do not have the -5 volts wired in so you would need to add those in yourself.

mmsadda
05-25-2010, 10:47 AM
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but it's a sticky, so....

I have one cabinet that began life as JAMMA, and was half-assedly converted to Neo at some point. The wiring is missing the -5volt, but it is wired for mono sound. Case in point: With my Hyper 64 Rev 2 board, I set the power to Neo, but the sound to JAMMA.

Does this mean I can play some if not all JAMMA boards in this cabinet without an adaptor or any modification?

Also, does Blitz '99 require the -5v?

Xian Xi
05-25-2010, 02:46 PM
Most midway games require -5v.

RetroRepair
11-11-2010, 01:04 AM
Ashura Blaster requires -5 for sound. I'd assume every Taito B System board does also.

dexterro6010
01-12-2011, 08:37 AM
Forgive this question in this sticky, but maybe it will help others such as myself with the same problem. When using an adapter board to play jamma games in a 4 slot MVS, there is a hole in the adapter board labeled "-5v connect". Would I be correct in assuming I need to add a drop of solder in that hole to complete the -5v connection in the adapter board? Or is there a solder-free way (I doubt it) to compete said connection if that is what, in fact, needs to be done?

By the way, add Final Blow to the list. That board is one of the reasons I am here.

Thanks.

Xian Xi
01-12-2011, 01:07 PM
MVS doesn't use -5v.

SetaSouji??
01-12-2011, 01:22 PM
Most KONAMI boards use the -5v. Fuck, even the Bubble System uses the -5v (which the wiring is based off the SCRAMBLE wiring)

dexterro6010
01-12-2011, 01:30 PM
MVS doesn't use -5v.

I know; I wasn't very clear where I was going with that. Sorry.

I meant in order to get -5v to a jamma board placed in an MVS 4-slot, I know I would have to wire a -5v line from the power supply to the MVS harness. However, there's a hole in the jamma to MVS adapter board on the -5v trace part of the board. I was just wondering if said hole had to be soldered in order to complete the -5v current from the MVS harness to the -5v on the jamma board. The pictures below are of the hole I'm talking about. Thanks.

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/pintopkp/2-2.jpg

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/pintopkp/1-2.jpg

Neo Alec
01-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Most KONAMI boards use the -5v. Fuck, even the Bubble System uses the -5v (which the wiring is based off the SCRAMBLE wiring)
What era are we talking here? I have a ton of Konami boards and none of them use the -5v.

http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/member_detail.php?member_id=387828

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 06:05 PM
Just got hold of Double dragon pcb board and i am a total noob. I have a egret II candy cab running a neo geo mvs 1 slot board. I wanted to plug in my double dragon pcb board and a bit confused as the harness that was connected to the MVS 1 board has a white bracket which does not allow me to fit it into the double dragon pcb board.

I have three other harnesses but I have no idea which one is the right one and which way it should plug in. Can anybody help me please?

photo of the spare harness

http://s927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/Dreamcastgamer_2010/?action=view&current=006-45.jpg

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 06:26 PM
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=193

Can anybody answer this question? I am having the same problem as this guy.

I have three other harneses's

I dont know which one to use..or which way round they supposed to fit in.

I dont want to blow up a 23 years old game.

http://s927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/Dreamcastgamer_2010/?action=view&current=006-45.jpg

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 07:02 PM
As i was waiting for a moderator to moderate my post........ over an hour now... I figured out which harness to use and adapter.

Now i cant figure out why there is no sound. I used the harness with the -5 wires connected. It was the only one. The other two had no wires connected to the -5 pin on the harness.

Xian Xi
02-21-2011, 07:07 PM
What game is it?

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Double dragon

I checked my egret II and it seems there is a brown wire comming out from the -5v on the psu. The jamma harness does have a wire connected to the -5 pin. I used one of those spare harnesses in the picture that has a wire connected to the -5 pin and the game works but no power.

Been googling for last 30 mins and cant seem to work it out..

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 07:52 PM
http://img585.imageshack.us/g/img1536.jpg/

Pictures in order:

1. Adapter that goes into the Double dragon PCB. (note the green wire connected to -5)

2. Whole shot of the harness adapter (multi coloured wires) that fits into the jamma harness inside the marchine (all pure white)

3. Close pic of the adapter which goes on the jamma harness. (note the -5 wires connected on the jamma harness)

4. The other side of the adapter (note the green wire connected to -5 on the jamma harness. from picture 1)

5. Close up of psu with -5 going out

6. Control panel (does the switch need to be on mono or stereo for double dragon?)

Monstermug
02-21-2011, 08:14 PM
Just got out my voltimeter and tested the -5 comming out from the psu is reaching the -5 pin on the double dragon pcb board. Tried adjusting the vr knob and switching the stereo sound from mono to stereo.

No luck.

Anybody have any suggestions? Im feeding it -5 and there is still no sound. Really boggling my mind .

Neo Alec
02-22-2011, 02:03 AM
Can you test the board in another cab? Sound is the first thing to go on a lot of jamma boards.

Monstermug
02-22-2011, 03:29 AM
I dont have another machine i am afraid.

I am pretty sure the sound is not faulty on this board so I think I will have to return it.

Anyway I can test the sound on the board using a voltimeter?

Hewitson
02-22-2011, 03:42 AM
Is your cab wired for mono or stereo sound? If you touch the pins of the power amp, does it make a sound?

Oh and its called a voltmeter :)

Monstermug
02-22-2011, 03:46 AM
I am not sure which part of the pcb is the sound amp....

haha me bad about typo. Just to show you guys how bad I am at electronics lol

Monstermug
02-22-2011, 04:07 AM
Oh its a egret II cab. It plays my neo geo games in Mono. There is a switch on the cab to turn it into stereo.

I am pretty sure double dragon plays in mono sound though.

purpled
10-11-2011, 11:02 AM
my stern amidar pcb has now sound with -5v disconnected, thought it was a faulty board until I checked this.

K-2
05-30-2014, 09:57 AM
Do all Power Supplies have -5 volt line?

Recently picked up a Rastan Saga and it won't boot in my Astro, or my Neo Candy with the Jamma converter board.

Kid Panda
05-30-2014, 10:21 AM
Do all Power Supplies have -5 volt line?

Recently picked up a Rastan Saga and it won't boot in my Astro, or my Neo Candy with the Jamma converter board.

No, most candy cabs made after 1988 took the -5v off the line. You'll need a Negatron power inverter to get your -5.
Most if not all American cabs had -5 on the switching power supplies.

K-2
05-30-2014, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the info Kid!
Too bad my American uprights are both Neo machines. I'll give the Negatron a shot. I was excited for Rastan going to have to wait a little longer now.

turntablism
01-14-2016, 11:35 AM
I played fighting hawk in my naomi cab. No sound. i plugged the negatron adapter and then there was music.
So the Taito Fighting Hawk PCB also need -5v

Westcb
01-14-2016, 01:51 PM
I bought a atlas board from jnx and put a negatron on that to get smash tv to work. I believe he sells them put together too with it already.

Apocalypse
05-16-2016, 04:14 PM
splatterhouse will keep resetting under 5.25 v and so will bloodstorm
Your board should have a problem. I've managed to get it run with voltage as low as 4.55V

To feed that thread:
- Karate Champ (Data East - 1984 - original version): no sound


I was wrong for Rush & Crash, it was just a coincidence sound started to work after I plugged the -5V.