Fucked up Final Fight PCB

taper_3ad

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Hey dudes!

Last time I played my Final Fight PCB it worked just fine. Since then it has been situated in one of my cabinettes for a year or two not being played, disconnected from the harness.

Tonight when I hooked it up again, it behaved very strangely. I tried it in more than one cabinette, so I know it's the PCB and nothing else. My PCB is one of those: http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6048/ffus9ix.jpg (thus not a japanese pcb, probably world).

When started, a copyright text is shown. However, instead of filling the whole screen, the text appears on the left side of the screen, and seem chopped off. Some words can be read, others can't be understood. The chars look fine, but the sentences just dont make any sense. On the right side of the screen, the exact same thing is displayed again!

Then, the map comes up. The city should be shown, but just like with the text, it only shows a bit of the map on the left side, and then the exact same thing on the right side, while some of the names on the map are again bogus. Like different letters are displayed instead of the right ones.

In the intro, the text below the intro pics behaves just the same. Totally bogus sentences, displayed twice, once right and once left. However, the pictures above is displayed correctly, except for some vertical blocks that are black, like the gfx is missing there.

When chooseing a fighter, the square that you move to highlight a fighter is fucked up.

In game, atleast on the first level, everything looks fine on screen. No graphics bugs on fighters or background. However, the power bars are looking weird, and the names of the people are again fucked up.

I took out all chips from the top board and reseated them. Same error. I tried to remove one mask chip at a time to see if I could figure out if the error was in one of the mask roms. Well, naturally the gfx fucked up even more when I removed a mask rom and tested, but the error never disappeared, so I guess it's not the mask roms afterall.

Ofcourse, it could be the mainboard (bottom) that's fucked, but I have no other cps1 game to exchange them.

Anyone seen this strange error and know what's wrong?

Any help appreciated!
 

ki_atsushi

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How well have you tried cleaning the connectors on the board and harness? 2 years worth of dust could easily do that, especially since you left the PCB disconnected.
 

channelmaniac

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Board and harness connectors would not cause a graphics glitch like that...

Check the board interconnects and then put it in testmode to see if it has a bad ROM. Do that by setting DIP switch C8 to "on"

http://www.arcadedocs.com/vidmanuals/F/final-fight.pdf

If the crazy 'C' board (the little bitty daughter board on top) isn't bad then I have a bottom & ROM board here at the house. It's a Street Fighter with a bad C board.

RJ
 

Murray

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I wouldn't think a dirty edge connector would cause such, well, organized problems.

Beyond that, I don't have much else to say that would be useful. Just maybe try reseating the B board on the A board, and reseating the C board on the B board. If you really want to exhaust all the reseating options, you could try doing the roms too.

Maybe someone w/ some actual CPS1 knowledge will come in here to help. I'm definitely not that person. My Final Fight board is still screwed up.
 

Neo Geo MVS

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Murray, I think channelmaniac was that someone and already helped him as much as he was going to get helped. Just my 2 cents. lol
 

Murray

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Neo Geo MVS said:
Murray, I think channelmaniac was that someone and already helped him as much as he was going to get helped. Just my 2 cents. lol
Yeah, but that post wasn't there when I started mine. Rambling uselessly in mine was more entertaining than just deleting it anyway, IMO.
 

taper_3ad

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thanks

Thanks for all the input guys! I tried reseating both the B and C boards, but it made no difference. I got some tips at the Swedish arcade community "Arkadtorget" aswell. Most people there seem to agree that there is probably nothing wrong with the graphics ROM's. One dude made the suggestion that it could be the RAM on the A-board.

So, I guess I'll have to buy another cps1 game and exchange the rom board and see what happens....
 

Murray

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taper_3ad said:
So, I guess I'll have to buy another cps1 game and exchange the rom board and see what happens....
Please post here when you figure it out. I'm pretty sure what's wrong with mine is a board problem as well (I've dumped, verified, and tested in MAME every rom on my board) and whatever you find out could be helpful to me too.
 

Arcademan

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Just as the others say, most likely it's a bad graphic RAM chip on the A board. I have a Final Fight PCB that has slight graphic glitches, not enough to interfere with the game play and nowhere near the ones on your screenshots but there are some similarities. When I plugged a SF2 into the A board it too had some slight glitches.

Fortunately the boards are commonplace and you should find one with little expense.
 

channelmaniac

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I doubt it's a RAM issue.

If it was it would've been seen during POST. Also, if he put it in self test as I suggested, any additional error messages for RAM or ROMs would've been seen.

RJ
 

Murray

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channelmaniac said:
I doubt it's a RAM issue.

If it was it would've been seen during POST. Also, if he put it in self test as I suggested, any additional error messages for RAM or ROMs would've been seen.

RJ
Out of curiousity, I tried that on mine last night. All I could get it to come up with was the input test. It does the usual rom, ram, etc. test on boot (which it always does, regardless of test mode, and passes everything), but the test mode only had input testing. Am I missing something? I seem to remember finding a tile viewer mode a while back but couldn't find it this time and didn't see anything else in the manual.
 

channelmaniac

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Couldn't tell ya...

I just read in the manual where the dip switch was... that would be my first stop in trying to fix it.

As to where the problem is... you need to narrow it down to the board level first then troubleshoot the board. That'll make it easier.

Too bad you aren't closer to Dallas, I'd say bring the board over & I'd help ya troubleshoot it.

RJ
 

taper_3ad

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test mode

Just as Murray says, the testmode only test the controls. ROM tests are performed during startup, and mine seem to report everything to be fine. However, I'm not sure it does test the RAM on the A board at all, perhaps it only tests the ROM's on the B-board. It's hard to see as the testscreen vanishes in a second, I guess I could try to photograph it to really see what it's saying, apart from reporting everything OK.

I am right now trying to get a good deal on a cps1 a-board or a complete game so I can continue testing and narrow it down to what boardlevel, just as channelmaniac says. Thanks for the Dallas offer by the way, but it would be a bit to expensive to travel from Sweden to Dallas for that, I wonder how many cps1 boards I could buy with that money... ;)

Im still thinking it's a graphics RAM issue, just like Arcademan. I'll keep you posted when i know more, but it might be some time, I need to get ahold of another board first.

In the meantime, thanks for all suggestions!
 

ttooddddyy

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Have you tried pulling the ROMs out and refitting, there may be a corroded pin which you may not notice with them inserted in their sockets, just a thought :spock:
 

Murray

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Does anyone know of a list of what A boards will work with what B/C boards? Specifically, would a SF2CE board would work with Final Fight? It seems I can find SF2 for much cheaper than FF and if I can use its A board to test, I'd like to try it. I figure the worst that happens is I end up with a SF2CE board around and have to build some 6-button sticks. :)
 

Xian Xi

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taper_3ad said:
Yes, I pulled every ROM out and put them in again, no difference.

So there is no corrosion at all on the board? Whats that yellow stuff by the jamma edge in your pic in the original post? Also if you have any of those foam pads on the solder side of the PCB you might wanna check under there for corrosion.
 

billd420

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I didn't wade through all of the posts, so sorry if this has been said before...

Your motherboard is toast. They crap out over time. Pick up any cheap CPS1 game + motherbaord and swap the Final Fight top PCB into it. It should work just fine. BTW, I'm 99% sure the motherboard switch will fix this... I had a final fight PCB not too long ago that did the same exact thing as you're experiencing.

I've had more broken CPS1 motherboards than working... they're really not durable at all.

-Bill
 

billd420

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Murray said:
Does anyone know of a list of what A boards will work with what B/C boards? Specifically, would a SF2CE board would work with Final Fight? It seems I can find SF2 for much cheaper than FF and if I can use its A board to test, I'd like to try it. I figure the worst that happens is I end up with a SF2CE board around and have to build some 6-button sticks. :)

Keep in mind I could be mistaken on this, but from my experience I've come to this conclusion:

All CPS1 motherboards are interchangeable except for the QSound motherboards. Due to the QSound layer, the game will play fine, however the sound will be non-existent. I've confirmed that you can play a final fight software board on a SF2 motherboard, SF2 CE motherboard, and a Punisher motherboard (with no audio). The only parts that are partially swappable are the "C" boards. There's a list at the dead battery society that explains which ones can be used in which board sets.

-Big Bill
 

Murray

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billd420 said:
Your motherboard is toast. They crap out over time. Pick up any cheap CPS1 game + motherbaord and swap the Final Fight top PCB into it. It should work just fine. BTW, I'm 99% sure the motherboard switch will fix this... I had a final fight PCB not too long ago that did the same exact thing as you're experiencing.
Sweet, thanks for the info. *heads off to bid on a SF2 board*
 

billd420

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Murray said:
Sweet, thanks for the info. *heads off to bid on a SF2 board*

No problem.

Its possible the "C" board is bad on your final fight, but unlikely because of the symptoms you're explaining. The CPS1 won't even boot if the "C" board is bad.

-BIll
 

channelmaniac

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I have one (Street Fighter) with a bad C board that looks perfect but has no vertical hold. Screen just rolls and rolls and rolls.

RJ
 

Murray

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Did you get anywhere with this? My SF2 board came in and while it works perfectly, my FF B+C boards on the SF2 A board does exactly the same as it does on the FF A board.

So I guess I've narrowed my problem down to my FF boards (the roms have been verified working ... must be one of the boards).
 
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