neogeofl and me - worst trade ever. the story of how I became a bitter man.

ok let me just start by saying that I write this out of sheer frustraion and not out of wanting to get anything from this person, as I have given up. he has offered me a Gamecube and I told him it was definetly not enough, to which he responded that he wouldn't send me anything and that greed was a bad thing.

also want to add that I am not perfect myself and though I've had many great deals and continue to do so, I've messed up from time to time. but I've always gone out of my way to atleast try and make amends, and if the blame lay with something I had done (slow shipping, bad packing) - I've always accepted it.



so is it so wrong that I should expect the same of the person I'm dealing with to do the same? I mean does a person have to be an out and out scammer to screw you over?

so if you had shipped out an expensive item that you where fond of first, it had gotten to the person you had shipped it to and they had accepted to keep it, and you had emphatically requested EMS shipping with tracking for the item you where to recieve in trade, would you settle for anything less?

so what then if that item had not been shipped via EMS with tracking, but via airmail without tracking, and it had gone missing? what would you expect to happen? would it be ok for that person to keep what you had sent them and wash their hands of the deal?

that's roughly what happened between me and negeofl.

so here's an outline of what happened.

1. I strike a deal with neogeofl - my consolized AW and 2 games for an xbox360 and a load of games, with extended waranty. we agree that I shall be shipping first

2. I ship out the AW, a modded joystick, 2 AW games (Dolphin Blue, and Demolish Fist I think it was: they had different market values last year) and a psu - all in seperate packages. they all eventually arive. in the meanitme I ask neogeofl if he can resend me some money I had in my paypal account through western union. I needed the cash and being in Argentina, I could not access it through Paypal. cash is wired.

3. the AW arived and it was apparently damaged. according to neogeofl the metal base was bent and the top of the shell presented some physical blemish. worst still when tested the system appeared not to work, emmitting scrambled images and strange sounds. neogeofl is unsure what to do. I tell him that I will cover the fixing of the system if he wants to send it to D-Lite for him to see if he can fix it (he made it). no picture of the non working system is forthcoming - neogeofl's digital camera had apparently recently broken.

4. neogeofl is not interested in sending the AW interstate to Dean (D-Lite) and claims that he can get it fixed locally at the hands of an arcade tech. due to the condition the system is in and the cost of fixing the system, the trade offer is reduced considerably - I accept, even though the price of everything I've sent him far exceeds what he is offering. I was to pay for the shipping on the xbox360 too.

5. neogeofl is unsure wether or not he wishes to keep the AW - offers me a gamecube and a pile of games for it. I reject the offer and ask him to ship the system to D-Lite once and for all so I could have him send it back to me (and so he could check it to see what was wrong). as you can imagine I was completly fed up with the situation. the next message I get from him is that he's just purchased
a brand new xbox 360 on my behalf and will ship it to me as soon as I can cover shipping.

I request that the xbox 360 be shipped to Denmark where my mother would recieve it on my behalf. I did not want to have the 360 come directly to me because I knew customs where going to charge me a ton of money in taxes for recieving such an expensive package - also my mother was soon to come over to Argentina and had agreed to bring it with her ( /I'm not a mummy's boy. honest/ ). I make it clear that I need it to go out via EMS shipping with tracking. now, due to the fact that the whole ordeal had taken so long, that I had to spend extra money on various things along the way pertaining to the deal (which where my responsibility), I was at that time out of funds to cover shipping, so I asked neogeofl to cover shipping via EMS and that I would refund him in the short term. I needed the package shipped soon because my ma' was coming over in a matter of weeks. neogeofl agreed to ship using EMS, and agreed to pay for it himself with me refunding him in the short term.

7. neogeofl again feels at odds with the deal and states that he's not interested in the trade since the AW is broken. notice that the fact that the AW is not working is my responsibility - he is not going to give me any sort of deal on it and rightly so, I wasn't expecting him to, if the system is indeed broken. that's my bad luck. I say fine then please (!!!) send it back to me (!!!)

8. I recieve a message from neogeofl out of the blue. the xbox 360 has shipped, but not via EMS - via airmail - no tracking, nothing. I grab my head and turn purple.
I thought he didn't want the AW and then suddenly I get word that it's been shipped using a shipping method I definetly did not agree to?
I don't know how long this whole ordeal had continued for but it was long, and it wasn't going to end any time soon I could feel it. 'neogeofl' why didn't you ship via EMS liked I asked you? there's no way to track the system if it goes missing?

'no there isn't. I decided to ship it via airmail because I didn't have enough money at the time to ship it via EMS'

WTF??!?? so this is reason enough to go ahead and ship any which way? my lord...

9. system never arives at the destination. the 360 is gone bye bye.

10. time passes and I tell neogeofl what the stuation is - he tells me to wait for it still, and I do, and it doesn't arive.

11. I'm perusing ebay on a whim, just checking AW units, I have asneaking suspicion - you know when you get that feeling that something's up - and it is. I find an auction for the consolized 360 at quite a high price - sold as working - the picture showed that it was in excellent condition(there was a picture - no broken camera) - the metal base is ever so slightly bent on one corner. lol!!!! I go mental

12. I confront neogeofl about this and he immediately pulls the auction. I ask him how in his right mind he could put for sale the AW I had sent him without having resolved the issue of what he had sent to me. it was completly ludicrous. he told me he needed the money that's why to was going on sale.
he sais he won't sell it then.

13. I tell neogeofl that the system is missing, he goes to the post office and they tell him there was nothing they could do about it. he sais he's going to have to sell the AW. I tell him that due to what happened I expect half of what he will make from the sale - and of the aw games too. it's only fai right? he agrees. thing is the system doesn't sell at all.

14. time passes and I confront him again. he sais he'll work a deal out with me and send me something for my loss. I agree.

15. I recieve a message from him saying that he had decided to keep the AW and that he didn't think he should have to send me anything. basically he had shipped out the xbox 360 and the fact that it hadn't arived was my problem, not his (and yet what if the AW had gone missing on its way to him - would I have expected him to give me something? nope, that's madness - see where I'm comiung from? he messes up shipping and washes his hands of it all).

16. I stress out big time, and I tell him forget it it, but if I ever wanted to throw a negative on his feedback he should just take it on the chin. I just couldn't deal with his sheer audacity. all the while telling me he was honest, he done his best, he wasn't a scammer, he didn't know for sure if I had the 360 or not, blah blah blah. he sais that I may even be trying to scam him who knows. lol.

yes but I'm out around 1k overall in goods and expenses thanks.

17. I post about this some time later (it's been around a year now) in another forum and they tell me I was mad for not having followed up on it.

18. neogeofl continues to post trade threads offering all kinds of things and I make a snide comment to which he reacts by deleting the first post. I'm prompted by others to explain myself. meanwhile I'm have a back and forth with neogeofl via pm. he sais the same old things and I tell him that I'm not after anything from him but that if he wanted to do the right thing he'd give me half of the price of the original trade, not a Gamecube, but something more significant. not expecting this from him, just telling it how it is. he sais I'm not getting a thing from him and explains he has nothing to offer me. that's fine , that's not the pupose of this whole ordeal.

I'll continue when I get back. sorry about spelling mistakes and stuff - to be corrected. and I have emails and pms to back what I say. just here to tell it like it is.

Igs and I struck a deal in March of 2006 for his Consolized AW Unit. He then stated he had to send me cash through Pay Pal (around $700.00) and I would then send it to him through Western Union so he could have money to ship it to me. I agreed and he sent the funds through Pay Pal to me (several different incremental amounts) and I then in turn sent him the money through Western Union. *If I was supposedly trying to scam him, wouldn’t I have just kept the money?!?!? Anyway, he then sent the Consolized AW to me and a few games. The AW arrived broken and damage to the actual body of it and it would not work correctly. I then had someone fix it locally for me and it work again. He then told me to ship the New Xbox 360 Premium System to his mom in Denmark, instead of to him in Argentina, and I did. He agreed to pay for ½ the EMS Shipping and $30.00 on top of that, but he did not have the money at the time and said he would pay me later. I told him that I was that week and did not have the money also. He insisted the 360 be sent right away because his mom was leaving in June to come visit him and she could bring it with her. So, I went to the post office and Airmail was affordable, so I shipped it Airmail (it said 4-6 Days and I have never had an issue with Airmail before). I would have sent EMS if Igs sent me his share of the shipping, but he did not. So, I sent it the way I could afford at the time. After telling Igs I sent it Airmail he was okay about it and said he would let me know when it arrived. Then it supposedly never did arrive and was supposedly lost. I sent Igs copies of the 360 System Receipt, Customs Forms, and Post Office Receipt (which was almost a year ago and I cannot find them now, but he should have them still). So, this went on for about a month and then he finally said’ “you know what? screw it. I hope that if and when the 360 gets returned to you by the post office, you are considerate enough to let me know and we can make prper arangements. I'm not going to ask for anything from you.” Well, the 360 was never returned to me, so my guess is that he received it and figured since I could not track it through Airmail he would try to get more money out of me. All I know is that I sent the 360 and I proved it with the receipts I sent him and now about 1 year later he brings it up again. And the funny thing is, he said he was not looking for anything from me in the PM’s yesterday and then all of sudden today he threatens me with coming out with this and wants a bunch of money back. It is not going to happen. I have had many deals here and have never scammed anyone. I even have done trades since and have not had then go bad. I even had a member send me a PS3 for a Wii and he shipped first and he still got his Wii and left positive feedback. It is just funny that this one deal where he had me ship it to another country and not to him turns out bad. Anyway, that is my side of the story, take it as you will!

Periods and paragraphs. Learn to use them so I can read your response.

Amano Jacu said:

Periods and paragraphs. Learn to use them so I can read your response.

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There are periods. And there is no need for more than 1 paragraph.

Well, regardless of who I like around here or not, I take the buying, selling and trading of stuff seriously. I have been ripped off before as well and it sucks.

I will be honest, you posted a lot of information that was not the easiest to read.

That being said, it sounds like you are out about $1000 worth of stuff and have received nothing in return? The other person, shipped your trade merchandise via a way that was not agreed upon. If that is true, he is responsible for the product being lost, not you. You really have no way to know that your items were ever shipped, since he didn't use the tracking/shipping method you requested.

It also sounds like you requested to have your stuff shipped back and that never happened. He claimed that your items were broke but refused to send them to agreed person for repair.

Now, this is only one side of the story but if what is listed above is correct, you got screwed. You should at a minimum get all of your orginal merchandise back and cost of shipping. If he no longer has the items, he should pay you the market value (I am sure someone can determine that) of what they were when this deal took place. You should not have to settle for some other items in trade, since that was not part of the original deal.

These things are always more complex than they seem. But from what I have read so far, that is what I think.

And...now we have another side to things and that is usually were the conflict comes from. Sounds kind of like a fucked up deal all the way around.

Why did one of you ship first? Just curious.

I'm glad neogeofl put his side of the story down - some details are incorrect and I shall show the pms to prove this. I say his side because he has a warped sense of how to make deals, and what the principle is here - that he may not have outright scammed me, but the way he behaved during this ordeal is paramount to scamming.

it is simply untrue that I asked neogeofl to ship out regardless of shipping method. that is utterly ridiculous. EMS or nothing, that's the bottom line - why would I risk it? I've had alot of stuff go missing via airmail no way was I going to have this run the risk of getting lost.

Gameoz, glad you asked those questions and what you stated in your first post is correct.

let me lay out part of the problem. now, if I was responsible for the AW ariving safe and well, why wasn't neogeofl responsible for his side of the deal? I decided to ship first upon request from him. he never showed me that the system was broken, he never agreed to have D Lite - a impartial third party take a look - all I found was that the 360 did not arive and that neogeofl was selling the aw on ebay before anything had been agreed to.

this is simply ludicrous. if he couldn't ship EMS he should have said so - the email I recieved prior to 'I shipped via airmail' was 'I don't want the system anymore I'm sending it back to you'



what the hell kind of a deal is that? I wanted my AW back so I could have it fixed, and then suddenly the man ships the 360 - supposedly - by airmail without telling me, without agreement - and without taking responsibility for the outcome. come on!!!

also I'm not trying to get anything back or out of him - this is satisfying enough for what it's worth, and I know he doesn't have the decency to do what's right. I never threatened to come out with all of this unless I got something.

I simply said that if he wanted to resolve this he'd have to try harder than to send me a mingy gamecube. just looking for half the value of the trade as I'm willing to take half the loss - as should he. he gets to keep the whole cake without paying for it.

since that wasn't to be, I felt the burden lifted off my shoulders enough to write about my ordeal. this thread is just testament to a deal gone very bad and a incompetent trader who made it alot worse. I haven't given neogeofl negative feedback because I was concerned he'd give me a retaliatory negative score. still, I may just do it anyway and have the mods check this thread out.

this is all so childish but we can all agree - what's fair is fair right?

The first part I don't get is why one of you shipped first. I know one of you asked the other to ship first but I don't understand this, since you both have high trader feedback ratings.


The high value of the items should require a delivery method that involves tracking. If tracking was asked for and not provided, the shipper is responsible for the lost items.

If the orignal shipped items were broke, it would seem resonable to ship them back or to have someone like D-lite look at them. Since no pictures were able to be taken to prove the items were broke, a trust worthy third party should have been used IMO.

Listing it on Ebay (with a photo), just adds to the idea that something wrong was going on.

However, with this much time passing, it does make it harder to show what went on. Regardless of time though, it doesn't sound like both sides ened up with a fair deal. I would have made a much bigger deal of this a while back.

What is the estimated current loss right now? Is it still a $1000 or have some things be done to make good on the deal?

I did not ask him to ship first. He said he would ship first in his thread. I bought a digital camera on July 4th weekend at Circuit City, so I was able to take pictures. Also, sending the AW to D-Lite and then Igs requesting it back would have lost me the AW and the 360. I found a local arcade tech to fix it, as i did with the monitor on my Gauntlet Legends Cab. And I offered the Gamecube and Game yesterday to try to at least seem to make it nice, even though I did send the 360 to him. Also, he did not say EMS or noghting when talking about shipping!

And, to come out a year later about this when he knows I may not have all documentation anymore seems obsurd. I thought this was long over and now this. I will not comment any further on what it seems like to me.

nothing was done to resolve this - I purposefully kept the emails and pms that mattered pertaining to this trade. I don't care about the value I just hate the fact that this guy glazed over what happened and continues to fill the trading forums with deals and offers when he skipped out on me big time.

I shipped out first because he wanted it that way, no other reason. I agreed. if the system had gone missing it would have been my problem. but it didn't. if it had broke it would have been my problem, and it was (supposedly - though check what I've stated and see that it all reads very strangely), and it was resolved.

he just did not hold his end of the bargain.

again I don't give a damn about getting anything back - I didn't do anything at the time and the miracle seller himself told me I was a fool for not persuing this back then. I was just going through alot and I couldn't deal with it. I'm just getting it out because I think it's unfair that I should have to bare this and also for you to know what to expect if a deal goes to shit with him.

neogeofl said:

I did not ask him to ship first. He said he would ship first in his thread. I bought a digital camera on July 4th weekend at Circuit City, so I was able to take pictures. Also, sending the AW to D-Lite and then Igs requesting it back would have lost me the AW and the 360. I found a local arcade tech to fix it, as i did with the monitor on my Gauntlet Legends Cab. And I offered the Gamecube and Game yesterday to try to at least seem to make it nice, even though I did send the 360 to him. Also, he did not say EMS or noghting when talking about shipping!

And, to come out a year later about this when he knows I may not have all documentation anymore seems obsurd. I thought this was long over and now this. I will not comment any further on what it seems like to me.

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good for you - you're lying through your teeth. I sent you a pm showing you the earlier pm where I requested EMS. let me find it.

DevilRedeemed said:

good for you - you're lying through your teeth. I sent you a pm showing you the earlier pm where I requested EMS. let me find it.

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I am not lying. You did not say EMS or nothing. Here is what you sent me:

Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
hey man,
is there any way you could send the 360 by tuesday at the latest? I will pass you the money for ems shipping to Denmark, and also 30 dollars on top like we agreed (and I'll be sending you the extra controller too).

its just that my mother is coming over on the 22nd of this month so i'd definetly need it shipped before then. this is kind of urgent, hat to put this on you like this but I'd need it shipped over asap in order to be able to recieve it.

all the best.
Igs.

And, if you don't care about getting anything back, why did you demand/basically try to blackmail money out of me this morning? You are no angel here!

lol. read it again.
Originally Posted by DevilRedeemed
hey man,
is there any way you could send the 360 by tuesday at the latest? I will pass you the money for [highlight]ems shipping[/highlight] to Denmark, and also 30 dollars on top like we agreed (and I'll be sending you the extra controller too).
its just that my mother is coming over on the 22nd of this month so i'd definetly need it shipped before then. this is kind of urgent, hat to put this on you like this but I'd need it shipped over asap in order to be able to recieve it.

all the best.
Igs

------
will now post a couple of the following exchanges

neogeofl said:

And, if you don't care about getting anything back, why did you demand/basically try to blackmail money out of me this morning? You are no angel here!

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money? lol - show me the content of the pm where I demanded money. am I an angel? no - but I'm damn honest when it comes to things like this. you've got some balls...

It does not say EMS or not to send it. If you gave me the funds that you said you would for EMS before I shipped it, I would have. We both said we did not have the funds at the time. Remember that???

You said:

if you want to even it out the trade value has to be half of the value of the consolized AW+games+shipping - it's simple math - we both must take a 50% hit. let me know by the end of the day where you stand with this and we'll put an end to this, one way or another.


Basically saying I pay up or you will bring this out in the open. I said to bring it out in the open!

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neogeofl said:

It does not say EMS or not to send it. If you gave me the funds that you said you would for EMS before I shipped it, I would have. We both said we did not have the funds at the time. Remember that???

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that's bullshit.
utter fucking bullshit. you sent me a pm saying you didn't want the fucking AW - remember - I'll post it. you then out of the blue shipped airmail and told after you did - without prior warning - you stated the lack of funds THEN. not before. don't fucking lie.

neogeofl said:

You said:

if you want to even it out the trade value has to be half of the value of the consolized AW+games+shipping - it's simple math - we both must take a 50% hit. let me know by the end of the day where you stand with this and we'll put an end to this, one way or another.


Basically saying I pay up or you will bring this out in the open. I said to bring it out in the open!

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lol.

I did go back and forth on whether to keep the AW. I admit that. Then I decided to get it fixed and keep it. I went through with my end and sent you the 360. Oh the drama never ends!

so what would you have given me if the AW had gone missing when I shipped first?

you are so full of shit though - how in God's name do you figure out you'll ship any which way something so expensive, fragile and heavy? without consulting first? I asked for EMS shipping why?


because it gets there faster.

because it has tracking

because it's safe


look you fucked up take it on the chin. what i hate about you is that you're arrogant. you fucked up.