Playing on Instinct.

Michael Yagami

I was wondering if I might get a rank with a Castl
Joined
May 1, 2002
Posts
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I come to the game play and KOF forums alot hoping to learn some new combo or attack but, due to my own fault, I never come away with anything. No matter what I read or practice nothing sticks. I've resigned myself to the fact that I play by instinct alone.
I know the contoller moves and button pushes by heart, but when it comes down to a match I never step into any specific style of play. I don't use big chain combos much, usually just small 3 or 4 hit bursts. I let the flow and feel of the match set my path for me and so far my method of play has worked for me.
Anyone else out there play in a similar fashion?

Mike
 

k'_127

NeoGumby's Sycophant,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
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it happens to me sometimes. kind of not being able to think or focus (you try but you can't). but sometimes when I play, I can read my opponent's move easily, pulling moves and combos smoothly, reacting quickly .......... etc.

I'm trying to figure out why can't I play like this all the time (maybe, it's because I play with CPU too much I think)

not sure if this is the same as you
 

Michael Yagami

I was wondering if I might get a rank with a Castl
Joined
May 1, 2002
Posts
5,928
When I start a match against a human player I go into auto pilot. I follow my insticts and reflexes. It's not that I get frustruated (sp) and forget how to play, I just let the flow of the match guide me. All the names of moves and big combos go out the window. I still win more than I lose, its just during the fight I don't really fight with a pattern or set path. Each fight is a new method of attack for me.

Mike
 

Diavle18

Banger regnaB,
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Aug 29, 2002
Posts
1,534
I'm with ya Mike, I do the exact same thing.

I always play using reflexes and I also think that the moment I have to think about an attack etc, it means I haven't mastered the character enough.

I play very aggressivley/offensively. I felt sorry for Rugal in '02 because of the way raped his ass with K9999 (finished him off with the SDM too). And occassionally like trapping the comp (don't have any humans to play against) in the corner, quite fun. I also use quick combos (usually ending with a DM).


Thanks,

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Diavle18 ]</small>
 

Body rip

Haomaru's Blade Shiner
Joined
May 29, 2002
Posts
694
I just go by an instinct... At the end of the day regardless of what I read here, my traditional style is what I use...that being just watching and reacting, mixed with offensive spurts in 2P play. Sometimes I'll shortly mimic competetion, (as best as I can) or temporarily go all out with very short risk taking dash-ins, really mixing it up so I never become easy to read.

I've always played with 3 to 4 hit burst combos myself, combined with the occassional special attacks that offer 3, 4, 5, to 6 hits due to inflation, and single dm attack for the finisher (sometimes)...and whooped ass with the style many a year. You'd think that this would be the intermediate style of play, but with solid defense, it works wonders against the insane combo fanatics that constantly bombard the local MVS location here.

When I see these combo vids of people laying down 15 to 20 hit combinations with insane linking of the (s)dms, I think to myself, "pretty, but not necessary".

But then again...

I've beaten a lot of good asians, and non asians in this country in KOF, but if I were to move to say Japan, Singapore, or any other place where the "experts" of the series reside, I just might need to elevate my game up to that level to compete. Fighting games in general seem to be much more religous in other secs of the world than here...

This thread brings out my competitive side. Too bad I'll never get to go against all these KOF Gurus that seem to know their shit... Takumaji, Orochi_Flava, Devil_Gans just to name a few...
 

SNKJorge

Collection Gallery Keeper, CD Price Guide Analyst,
Joined
May 26, 2002
Posts
9,233
I play on instinct as well, kind of like
KOF'94 and KOF'95 4-5 hit combo combinations
is my thing. I never liked long combos, I learned
that long combos can be flashy and cool when
you pull them off, but most of the time, chances
are that you will be killed before you
pull off that 21 hit combo against a human
opponent.
 

the_colonel

Fio's Quartermaster
Joined
May 11, 2002
Posts
487
I can help you because i know what the problem is 100%

1/. You don't play enough kof to make your game style stick.

2/. Even if you play alot, it does not mean you are learning, you really have to find out quite alot about a characters moves to be effective.

3/. If your playing on instinct that means the game is to fast for you to play, you need to be-able to not attack much but defend with the attacks your character has effectively.

4/. If you find yourself playing agressively, then try to stop being agressive & try to control the match at hand, playing agressive is no good if someone can defend well (i mean beating you whilst you try to attack). Being agressive is of very importance if you no where & when to attack each character individually, fighting all of the characters is essential to plying well. If you can't fight properly against one certain character, then that can loose you lots of battles.

5/. If you keep playing at a level where big combos are difficult to do & make your rists tired, then you need to keep that high standard reflex time between your hands & mind at its peak. p.s if you want to play kof well, then don't play games other games as much, if i play 3rd strike then all my skills of high pace drop to the bottom, trust me, i would rather play a fast paced fighting game thats very fun & exciting than play games that anyone else can, i mean, all street fighter games are of very low deph & its just that because some people claim they are good at it, means they are playing at very high skill level. Gimme a break, why the mojority of them can't play kof is because they cant hack the fact of the gameplay or even having 4 buttons. I bet a beginner on kof stays a beginner on kof for along time. Whilst on street fighter, they become above average in a few weeks.
Just my 2 cents.

6/. Having good skills one day & playing crap the next is the result of not knowing a characters weakness for one day & then remembering the next. Kof does take alot of study to just play at an average level, but be for warned there are alot of levels to get to. Once you start to master a new character who you was crap with before will enlighten you on these levels.

7/. Oh yeah!!! don't try out big combos on purpose, just play kof & have fun, accepting your own skill level will clear your mind & allow you to be more inventive. Thats when you will know the correct time to try your combos, just wait for the right time your heart will tell you when. Weired but true.

Is one of my guesses correct or are they all wrong!!! hahaha.

<small>[ February 09, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: the_colonel ]</small>
 

k'_127

NeoGumby's Sycophant,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Posts
6,724
the_colonel:
I can help you because i know what the problem is 100%

1/. You don't play enough kof to make your game style stick.

2/. Even if you play alot, it does not mean you are learning, you really have to find out quite alot about a characters moves to be effective.

3/. If your playing on instinct that means the game is to fast for you to play, you need to be-able to not attack much but defend with the attacks your character has effectively.

4/. If you find yourself playing agressively, then try to stop being agressive & try to control the match at hand, playing agressive is no good if someone can defend well (i mean beating you whilst you try to attack). Being agressive is of very importance if you no where & when to attack each character individually, fighting all of the characters is essential to plying well. If you can't fight properly against one certain character, then that can loose you lots of battles.

5/. If you keep playing at a level where big combos are difficult to do & make your rists tired, then you need to keep that high standard reflex time between your hands & mind at its peak. p.s if you want to play kof well, then don't play games other games as much, if i play 3rd strike then all my skills of high pace drop to the bottom, trust me, i would rather play a fast paced fighting game thats very fun & exciting than play games that anyone else can, i mean, all street fighter games are of very low deph & its just that because some people claim they are good at it, means they are playing at very high skill level. Gimme a break, why the mojority of them can't play kof is because they cant hack the fact of the gameplay or even having 4 buttons. I bet a beginner on kof stays a beginner on kof for along time. Whilst on street fighter, they become above average in a few weeks.
Just my 2 cents.

6/. Having good skills one day & playing crap the next is the result of not knowing a characters weakness for one day & then remembering the next. Kof does take alot of study to just play at an average level, but be for warned there are alot of levels to get to. Once you start to master a new character who you was crap with before will enlighten you on these levels.

7/. Oh yeah!!! don't try out big combos on purpose, just play kof & have fun, accepting your own skill level will clear your mind & allow you to be more inventive. Thats when you will know the correct time to try your combos, just wait for the right time your heart will tell you when. Weired but true.

Is one of my guesses correct or are they all wrong!!! hahaha.
best post in this thread (at least, for me) especially for no.2
 

EVIL NICK

ALL CAPS,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Posts
2,625
the_colonel:
I can help you because i know what the problem is 100%

1/. You don't play enough kof to make your game style stick.

2/. Even if you play alot, it does not mean you are learning, you really have to find out quite alot about a characters moves to be effective.

3/. If your playing on instinct that means the game is to fast for you to play, you need to be-able to not attack much but defend with the attacks your character has effectively.

4/. If you find yourself playing agressively, then try to stop being agressive & try to control the match at hand, playing agressive is no good if someone can defend well (i mean beating you whilst you try to attack). Being agressive is of very importance if you no where & when to attack each character individually, fighting all of the characters is essential to plying well. If you can't fight properly against one certain character, then that can loose you lots of battles.

5/. If you keep playing at a level where big combos are difficult to do & make your rists tired, then you need to keep that high standard reflex time between your hands & mind at its peak. p.s if you want to play kof well, then don't play games other games as much, if i play 3rd strike then all my skills of high pace drop to the bottom, trust me, i would rather play a fast paced fighting game thats very fun & exciting than play games that anyone else can, i mean, all street fighter games are of very low deph & its just that because some people claim they are good at it, means they are playing at very high skill level. Gimme a break, why the mojority of them can't play kof is because they cant hack the fact of the gameplay or even having 4 buttons. I bet a beginner on kof stays a beginner on kof for along time. Whilst on street fighter, they become above average in a few weeks.
Just my 2 cents.

6/. Having good skills one day & playing crap the next is the result of not knowing a characters weakness for one day & then remembering the next. Kof does take alot of study to just play at an average level, but be for warned there are alot of levels to get to. Once you start to master a new character who you was crap with before will enlighten you on these levels.

7/. Oh yeah!!! don't try out big combos on purpose, just play kof & have fun, accepting your own skill level will clear your mind & allow you to be more inventive. Thats when you will know the correct time to try your combos, just wait for the right time your heart will tell you when. Weired but true.

Is one of my guesses correct or are they all wrong!!! hahaha.
Excellent post!

I was about to make one along the same lines, although I'm sure mine wouldn't have been as in-depth as yours... wink
 

Body rip

Haomaru's Blade Shiner
Joined
May 29, 2002
Posts
694
the_colonel:
I can help you because i know what the problem is 100%

1/. You don't play enough kof to make your game style stick.

2/. Even if you play alot, it does not mean you are learning, you really have to find out quite alot about a characters moves to be effective.

3/. If your playing on instinct that means the game is to fast for you to play, you need to be-able to not attack much but defend with the attacks your character has effectively.

4/. If you find yourself playing agressively, then try to stop being agressive & try to control the match at hand, playing agressive is no good if someone can defend well (i mean beating you whilst you try to attack). Being agressive is of very importance if you no where & when to attack each character individually, fighting all of the characters is essential to plying well. If you can't fight properly against one certain character, then that can loose you lots of battles.

5/. If you keep playing at a level where big combos are difficult to do & make your rists tired, then you need to keep that high standard reflex time between your hands & mind at its peak. p.s if you want to play kof well, then don't play games other games as much, if i play 3rd strike then all my skills of high pace drop to the bottom, trust me, i would rather play a fast paced fighting game thats very fun & exciting than play games that anyone else can, i mean, all street fighter games are of very low deph & its just that because some people claim they are good at it, means they are playing at very high skill level. Gimme a break, why the mojority of them can't play kof is because they cant hack the fact of the gameplay or even having 4 buttons. I bet a beginner on kof stays a beginner on kof for along time. Whilst on street fighter, they become above average in a few weeks.
Just my 2 cents.

6/. Having good skills one day & playing crap the next is the result of not knowing a characters weakness for one day & then remembering the next. Kof does take alot of study to just play at an average level, but be for warned there are alot of levels to get to. Once you start to master a new character who you was crap with before will enlighten you on these levels.

7/. Oh yeah!!! don't try out big combos on purpose, just play kof & have fun, accepting your own skill level will clear your mind & allow you to be more inventive. Thats when you will know the correct time to try your combos, just wait for the right time your heart will tell you when. Weired but true.

Is one of my guesses correct or are they all wrong!!! hahaha.
Good points all the way across the board. A lotta substance in this one, although 3 is debatable IMO.

I don't agree with this point partially, 'cause I've been playing KOF for years and have long since graduated the feel of being lost during gameplay 'cause it's too fast, or going over my head.

It's like a natural instinct for me to "feel" what the opposition is going to throw sometimes. I guess that's just from me watching and reacting very often, as it can come across as being psychic to some, which is total bullshit... Just think of it as positive intuition from study, as I find far too many people regardless of skill easy to adapt to after a round, or a full match.

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with every point you made. Repetition is the key to making things stick, and experimentation with different versions of moves are definitly needed to get better. Knowing things about your characters range for normal attacks, priority with certain moves, how long one person can spend in the air as opposed to another for the timing of combos that begin with jump-ins, (Benimaru anyone?) I mean the strategic list goes on and on, and it can only be achieved with a certain amount of time spent devoting yourself to a person to be effective for all competetion.

Though I will sometimes play more aggressive than others because I like to freestyle to establish diversity, I think too much emphasis put on offense can bury you. That's exactly what I said when I'm playing these guys who like to show me their shit offensively, only to get blocked and pounded in retaliation.

Personally, Choi is a character for me who requires more of a defensive approach, because he's so quick and low to the ground that he can often times beat you to the punch, and make you miss terribly. That's a prime example of playing certain characters a certain way.

Going from one game engine to another (i.e. SF to KOF) isn't bad if it's done often, but too much of one over the other will eventually cause precedence to come into play, and it's not just fighting games that come into question with this point btw, but any game you play to at a constant level can bring your skills down in another, or just not playing games at all for a period of time.

I will probably never be considered an elite gamer, because I cannot play any game regardless of console to a religous degree like others...and often times, this is what it takes to be truly great.
 

the_colonel

Fio's Quartermaster
Joined
May 11, 2002
Posts
487
Thanks for your good replys.
Yeah, theres some good points about the game here.

With what you say here, "Body rip"
It's like a natural instinct for me to "feel" what the opposition is going to throw sometimes. I guess that's just from me watching and reacting very often, as it can come across as being psychic to some, which is total bullshit... Just think of it as positive intuition from study, as I find far too many people regardless of skill easy to adapt to after a round, or a full match.

Your right, you must learn not to be predictable or they will learn when to counter roll past you & such. In this game you must not abuse your techniques & you must learn lots of variations of the same combo you use.
Theres nothing wrong with attacking them with 2 or 3 hit combos, as long as they can't attack you afterwards then its all good. But make sure you watch the stocks closley, its important to get you combo blocked (or it hits) at the start of a match first, as they can not counter you at all, but if they gain a stock, then use sure combos that they can not counter, if you go for a larger combo they may find a counter roll oppertunity.

Just make sure you have all you counter techniques at the ready, also knowing how to use it at the correct time will help wonders.

Whats superb about kof is that there are so many styles of play & also the matches are very different everytime you play.

"michael yagami" (said Each fight is a new method of attack for me.) Yes the game is very diverse so its allways like that, also the game's moves have very slight delays to make it fair, all other 2d fighting games have many centre lined based attacks, rendering there other slower attacks useless, well... not totally useless.

Kof may not even seem fun if you can not adapt to the overwhelming amount of styles you can find, also this game is pure manual play, the combos & strategys you can find will depend on your own style of play. hope this helps.

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: the_colonel ]</small>
 

Takumaji

Krautmin
Staff member
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Posts
20,464
Good thread!

I once attended a small local KoF95 tournament with 15 ppl. I was quite good vs CPU back then, so I figured that I'd get into the top-5, but I ended up being last. I felt like a welcome test dummy of these guys, but I swallowed my pride and had a nice talk with the winner. After quietly listing my oh-so-many flaws, he told me a few of his simple KoF principles:

- Get over the "my favourite character" thing. The goal is to be able to play and win with any character in any situation.

- A simple standing A that hits is better than a raging storm that ends on the opponent's block.

- There is no such thing as "being cheap". In real competitive situations, anything goes.

- Practise technical stuff in 1P, but play as much vs human as you can.

- Learn how to block and counter by playing with slower, non-projectile charas.

- Don't believe the "tricks" ppl tell you. Let them inspire you, but try to find out your personal style of playing a certain chara. If you like "odd" or unpopular charas, the better.
 

FeelGood

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
Joined
Aug 18, 2001
Posts
17,794
I think the point that you really start to master shit is when you stop trying to learn. I guess that's Zen.

Here's what I mean.

When I play Last Blade 2 or Samurai Shodown, I'm not trying at all to "pull stuff off." I know what it takes to win and that's what I do. I know that a jumping back B with Jubei will take priority over any incoming air attack.

90% of my losses in 2 player games come from me getting fancy. Trying to connect with Akari's ultimate combo. Trying to do grabs with Shigen. Desperations for the sake of Desperations, etc.

I think that's why the programmers gave us HSDMs in KoF 2002 - so that we'd arrogantly let our health drop to 20% and hold off from using our B&B combos just for the chance of actually humiliating our opponents with a shitty rehashed DM incorporating frames from taunts, winposes and other bullshit. They gave them to us to help us kill ourselves.

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: EvilWasabi ]</small>
 

the_colonel

Fio's Quartermaster
Joined
May 11, 2002
Posts
487
This one should inspire your mind & reflex's to not get cought out by there setup trap to start there cheap move.
"Takumaji"
There is no such thing as "being cheap". In real competitive situations, anything goes.
Apart from bao's infinity, that sucks big time.

But yeah! those tips from the tourney winner are the top tips to give to anyone.
 

FeelGood

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the_colonel:
This one should inspire your mind & reflex's to not get cought out by there setup trap to start there cheap move.
"Takumaji"
There is no such thing as "being cheap". In real competitive situations, anything goes.
Apart from bao's infinity, that sucks big time.

But yeah! those tips from the tourney winner are the top tips to give to anyone.
There's a kind of game tempo that is set by the manner you play. When someone uses an infinite, the door opens for the next person to use an infinite just out of spite, and that's not cool.

Back in college, while playing SSIII, my friends and I all knew the infinites, but never pulled them off on each other. It just wasn't interesting when you went for infinites, and besides, they get really predictable...
 

Takumaji

Krautmin
Staff member
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Jul 24, 2001
Posts
20,464
Heh, I knew some of you won't like the "be cheap be cool" thing...

Well, personally I almost never use infinites or stuff like that on ppl I know because a) they know my ole' dirty tricks inside out, and b) it's really no fun at all. There are lots of other, more elegant ways to win if you just want that. However, I also have fun when I'm not winning because I simply love the game.

But I must admit that I'm always tempted to achieve the grand victory, that magnificent shodown with all bells and whistles the engine has to offer. It's just so thrilling and breathtaking to land one of those nifty ten-hitters and then top it off with a super-cancelled (S)DM, and all you see after the clouds of smoke rise is your destroyed opponent...

'course it isn't really tournament-worthy and just too easy to counter, but boy does it feel good! :cool:
 

FeelGood

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Takumaji:

But I must admit that I'm always tempted to achieve the grand victory, that magnificent shodown with all bells and whistles the engine has to offer. It's just so thrilling and breathtaking to land one of those nifty ten-hitters and then top it off with a super-cancelled (S)DM, and all you see after the clouds of smoke rise is your destroyed opponent...
I get this when I play as Kagami in Last Blade 2. He's not as powerful as he was in Last Blade 1, but he has some of the sweetest Air, to ground to air combos of any character ever created. He's like a homage to ShinOhKen in that respect.

My favorite victory consists of finishing off an opponent with his (air) down+C, (ground) DP+B, (air) HCF+AB.

That's one of those combos that just makes people shut up for 2 seconds before they say, "sweet combo, dude."
 
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