Problem with an eBay buyer- advice, please?

jro · Jan 31, 2007

Okay, I recently sold an FM Towns Marty to a guy in Spain. He paid fast, paid $60 for EMS shipping. Auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200069683960&rd=1&rd=1

I ship it within 36 hours, he gets it pretty fast, then sends me an e-mail asking what the disc drive is for and and also says the controller doesn't seem to work.

Controller worked fine when I tested it, as stated in the auction.

I send him an e-mail back asking if he's tried any games, since it doesn't seem he knows much about the system and may be trying to select data management options. He sends me one last e-mail saying that yes, he's tried it with games, and that the up and down directionals don't work.

I haven't responded to that one yet. He hasn't flat asked for a refund, but I don't see what else he would do. Couple things I don't know what to think of- one, I have no way of knowing if the controller truly didn't work as soon as it reached him. He could have damaged it then decided to try to get his money back out of me. Two, my auctions all state that items are sold as-is. No purchase of insurance, I'm not going after the post office (and I highly doubt I could get them to pay on "controller doesn't work"). Shipping was via EMS, does that come with a small amount of insurance built in or is that just overnight?

And I can't just send him a replacement controller- I don't have a spare sitting around, and finding a Marty controller by itself would be a rare thing, I think.

What do you all think?

Circa2113 · Jan 31, 2007

jro said:
Two, my auctions all state that items are sold as-is.

Thread over. There is nothing he can do if you sell it as-is.

68k · Jan 31, 2007

Circa2113 said:
Thread over. There is nothing he can do if you sell it as-is.

That about sums it up.

jro · Jan 31, 2007

68HC000 said:
That about sums it up.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I've never had to just flat-out tell a buyer "sorry dude, your loss" before.

But my honest initial opinion is that I'm not at fault for the possible loss, and I'll just take the inevitable negative, but that I would almost certainly win a PP dispute.

Good to hear I'm not alone in that thinking.

Gameoz · Jan 31, 2007

jro said:
That's kind of what I was thinking, but I've never had to just flat-out tell a buyer "sorry dude, your loss" before.

But my honest initial opinion is that I'm not at fault for the possible loss, and I'll just take the inevitable negative, but that I would almost certainly win a PP dispute.

Good to hear I'm not alone in that thinking.

It has already been stated but you do not need to do anything. I read through your auction and it clearly states that it is sold as is. That is really the end of it.

Depending on what his e-mails are like, you may want to try to help him figure out the problem. (If it is just user error) But really, if he wants to leave you a negative, you will be able to list a reply to it. There is no way he will win a Pay Pal dispute.

Jedah Doma · Jan 31, 2007

Yep, all you can do is try and help him by asking questions, but other then that, it's up to him. Once the item is sold as is, it's all up to him. I imagine the guy bought it thinking it was something else, got it, saw it was the wrong thing, and now wants his money back. I would just be cautious and try to resolve things trhough e-mail.

Xian Xi · Jan 31, 2007

As is doesnt mean shit if you use paypal. I say as is in all mine as well.

EMS does come with an automatic $100 insurance coverage but if you file a claim they keep the item(PO), you do not get the money and keep the item.

If you did use paypal then when he asks for a refund make sure you say that you will only give one if the item is shipped back to you.

68k · Feb 1, 2007

jro said:
That's kind of what I was thinking, but I've never had to just flat-out tell a buyer "sorry dude, your loss" before.

But my honest initial opinion is that I'm not at fault for the possible loss, and I'll just take the inevitable negative, but that I would almost certainly win a PP dispute.

Good to hear I'm not alone in that thinking.

Don't sweat it at all. He took the risk *shrug*.

If I were in that situation, I would assist him with what might be the problem, but I would not accept a refund. If he didn't see that it was sold "as-is". tough cookies for him.

jro · Feb 1, 2007

Sounds good, I'll send another e-mail with a few suggestions for getting the controller working properly and I'll be nice.

I'm certainly not going to offer any kind of a refund, though, thanks for confirming that line of thinking to all who posted.

Pep · Feb 1, 2007

Xian Xi said:
As is doesnt mean shit if you use paypal. I say as is in all mine as well.

That's not accurate, when selling an item "as is" Paypal may understand that it cannot be considered as a "Significantly Not As Described" item and, therefore, most likely will not accept a claim from the buyer in that sense, on the contrary it would be considered that the item was properly described and not missrepresented in any way.

By the way, where from Spain is this guy?

Pep · Feb 1, 2007

silly double post, sorry

norton9478 · Feb 1, 2007

I've read the paypal seller protection..

I don't remember you not being covered for Items that don't work......

Xian Xi · Feb 1, 2007

norton9478 said:
I've read the paypal seller protection..

I don't remember you not being covered for Items that don't work......

Thats only if the item qualifies for the protection meaning you are shipping to a confirmed address. I doubt this one is confirmed.

Paypal has always been iffy. I have been using them since 2001 and have filed many claims with them and the outcome is almost always the same. But sometimes the buyer says things that paypal thinks is true when they're lying.

xmods (jwm2) · Feb 1, 2007

Having tons of paypal experince myself i know first hand that he can file a claim and he will probably win. At that point he doesn't have to send the broken controller back. All you can do is make him prove it was broken. Have him send it back and when he does test it out. If it works fine then make him pay for return shipping. Then he'll know it must be his console. But he may have just bought the console and doesn't know it may have an issue, so you'll have to be very clear to him if it does work that its not the device but his console that is at fault. Basically do whatever you can to keep him from filing a chargeback because once he does chances are you will lose. Good luck.

xmods (jwm2) · Feb 1, 2007

Also depending on how he funded his paypal payment, he may be able to take even more action even if paypal does refuse to file a claim. For example if he used a credit card he can then go to the credit card company and file a chargeback. Thats something that paypal can't control and they will deduct it from your account or put your account on hold(freeze). They would only freeze it if you didn't have enough money to cover the claim and you don't have a funded account. If your account is funded(via credit card or checking account for example) then they will just deduct it from your credit card :/ Dealing with paypal is very tricky and can be a headache at times. But generally speaking you are way better off with paypal than with the credit card companys

Anyhow good luck.

jro · Feb 5, 2007

So after not getting any replies from this guy for 4 days (I sent him a response suggesting that he clean the connectors very carefully), he finally sends me a message today stating that the up/down directionals still don't work, and that everything else does, which shows that this is clearly a problem with the system, and that "THE CONSOLE IS BROKEN."

Changing stories, I love it.

So I sent him another message saying that it sounds very much like his own messages have confirmed that the console itself works fine, and only the controller is at fault.

He still hasn't asked for a refund, but I'm sure he will, and I'm going to tell him no on the following grounds:
1. The system was sold as-is, and it worked perfectly fine when I tested it.
2. It worked fine when I tested it. Now, six days (at least) after he confirmed receipt of it, he may want a refund? How in the world am I to believe that he didn't receive it and then either accidentally break it himself or decide he didn't want it in hopes of making me take the loss?

I may offer a compromise and offer a $20 refund or so to cover the cost of a new controller (since that's the only part of the story that's staying the same), but even that would be outside of what I'm compelled to do by the language in my auction. I'd only be doing it to try to show good faith.

What the fuck is wrong with people on eBay? Second sale in a row that's gone pretty badly (last one ended with the guy trying to scam me two different ways, getting shut down bad on both, and going away timidly).

Pep · Feb 5, 2007

Where from Spain is he?

Gameoz · Feb 5, 2007

jro said:
So after not getting any replies from this guy for 4 days (I sent him a response suggesting that he clean the connectors very carefully), he finally sends me a message today stating that the up/down directionals still don't work, and that everything else does, which shows that this is clearly a problem with the system, and that "THE CONSOLE IS BROKEN."

Changing stories, I love it.

So I sent him another message saying that it sounds very much like his own messages have confirmed that the console itself works fine, and only the controller is at fault.

He still hasn't asked for a refund, but I'm sure he will, and I'm going to tell him no on the following grounds:
1. The system was sold as-is, and it worked perfectly fine when I tested it.
2. It worked fine when I tested it. Now, six days (at least) after he confirmed receipt of it, he may want a refund? How in the world am I to believe that he didn't receive it and then either accidentally break it himself or decide he didn't want it in hopes of making me take the loss?

I may offer a compromise and offer a $20 refund or so to cover the cost of a new controller (since that's the only part of the story that's staying the same), but even that would be outside of what I'm compelled to do by the language in my auction. I'd only be doing it to try to show good faith.

What the fuck is wrong with people on eBay? Second sale in a row that's gone pretty badly (last one ended with the guy trying to scam me two different ways, getting shut down bad on both, and going away timidly).

It sounds like you are doing everything you can. More than is actually required IMO. If you do end up with compromise and credit him some thing for the controller (or what ever) make sure you get an e-mail agreeing to that being the end of it. I would also have him leave positive feedback first and then credit him the money. (Your e-mail to him would be the proof that you would give a credit)

Otherwise you could end up giving him the credit only for him to state that it still didn't fix the problem. He could then leave negative and move ahead with a PayPal claim.

I sell a lot on Ebay and had a couple people rip me off when I first started. However, I have gotten better at protecting my self. There is still about one out of every 50-100 autions though, where someone tries to scam me. I have been lucky this last year and held them all off.

Good luck and make sure you cover your bases when offering this guy anything.

jro · Feb 6, 2007

Pep said:
Where from Spain is he?

Madrid. Name is Oscar Calderon Alonso. He seemed like a genuinely decent guy up until he started doing various ALL CAPS and sort of changing his story, sort of not.

I appreciate the advice, GO. Guy says he bought a different controller, and that it's having the exact same problem as the other one (no up/down inputs registering). So now he insists it's a system problem, but he still hasn't mentioned the word "refund" in any way.

I find it a little odd that he was able to procure a second controller so fast, but I suppose that's possible. And though I also suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility, I've never heard of a system malfunction that makes certain controller inputs not work that wasn't fixed simply by looking at the connectors and/or pins.

Regardless, though, I'm not going to refund him for the system. It worked right when I tested it, as I stated in the auction, and it was also sold as is, as stated in the auction.

Kind of weird, really.

norton9478 · Feb 6, 2007

Some points.

1. The solder joint where the pin connects to the MB could have cracked... I've seen it hapen with Genesis.

2. I'd have him ship it back to you at his expense... If the story checks out... refund him for everything. If it doesn't, don't refund him a dime and demand even more shipping to send it back.

norton9478 · Feb 6, 2007

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320068859852

He did buy another Pad.

jro · Feb 6, 2007

norton9478 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320068859852

He did buy another Pad.

Hmm, good lookin' out, Fish.

So you think I should offer to refund, assuming he pays to ship back, even though it was listed "as is?"

My biggest issue with that is if he damaged it on his own after he received it. He's had it for 7 or 8 days now.

I guess at that point I'm pretty much guaranteed to end up refunding him, though, regardless of how it might have gotten damaged.

edit: I took your advice, Scott. Sent him a message suggesting that fix, and told him to send it back to me at his expense if he still can't get it working. Then, if I can't get it to work, I'll refund his original purchase price, but if I can get it working, I send it back.

I'd really rather not have my PP tied up over a complaint that may cause me to end up $150 in the hole with no system to show for it, broken or not, and I figure this is showing pretty goddamn good faith. I'm just getting sick and tired of dealing with this guy.

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