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View Full Version : Neogeo AES, dead or not dead ?



dr.wily
12-15-2006, 11:27 AM
I have a Neogeo AES (mainboard model neo-aes3-4). This Neogeo work fine during several years. But today, it decide to be a bit capricious. My Neogeo don't want boot any game ! No sound, blank screen. No boot.

I looked at the mainboard, trace are OK, IC seem good, BIOS is an origianl BIOS and none modifications.

I don't want to junk this neogeo, there is too few Neogeo in the world.

Please live again yhis Neogeo.

Thank

Sorry, English is not my native language.

MKL
12-15-2006, 12:08 PM
What colour is the screen when you run the system with no cart?

dr.wily
12-15-2006, 01:43 PM
What colour is the screen when you run the system with no cart?

Red, most of time and sometimes blank or blue.

MKL
12-15-2006, 02:28 PM
A solid red screen would mean a problem with the work ram (you get blue when the system is OK). It can probably be fixed but only by someone experienced. Where are you located?

dr.wily
12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
First, thank for your help.

I am french. You can fix this ? I am experienced in repairing video game system. but this issue is beyong my knowledge.

Work ram ? Where is located these chips ?

MKL
12-15-2006, 05:19 PM
It's the couple of surface-mount 43256 chips near the reset button. I can probably fix it.

dr.wily
12-20-2006, 01:05 PM
This is these chips ?

http://asso.sc.9online.fr/ng1.JPG
http://asso.sc.9online.fr/ng2.JPG

If yes, traces are ok.

MKL
12-21-2006, 07:06 AM
Yes, it's those chips. A visual inspection of the traces around the chips cannot guarantee their integrity though. Continuity should be tested across each leg of the chips and the corresponding leg of the CPU. Having said that, the traces on a home system are generally well-protected and therefore less likely to go bad than the chips themselves. If you installed a unibios (even a temporary, solderless installation is possible) you would get a an error message with more info about the failure. If you're going to replace the chip(s) make sure the job is done by someone who has enough experience with surface-mount stuff as a n00b will easily screw it up even more.

MKL
12-21-2006, 12:31 PM
There's a trace in your pics that looks very suspect:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5043/ng2sq7.jpg

If it's actually broken you should get no continuity between the pins shown here:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9932/ng1mr7.jpg

in which case it could be fixed by shorting the pins with a piece of wire.

dr.wily
01-19-2008, 09:01 AM
OK, since my first post I did not manage to fix this issue on my Neo geo AES.

I am ready to ask some help to someone who can repair it. But I need son informations :

- Who ?
- Where ?
- price ?

I live in France.

WilalvesBR
01-19-2008, 03:37 PM
A solid red screen would mean a problem with the work ram (you get blue when the system is OK). It can probably be fixed but only by someone experienced. Where are you located?
What would be the problem in a system that always end on a solid yellow screen when turned on without any cart inserted?

metallizer
01-19-2008, 03:45 PM
Blue = All tests passed (does not test z80).
Red = WorkRAM error (0x100000 region).
Green = PaletteRAM error (0x400000 region).
Yellow = VideoRAM error (programmed through custom port).
Pink = Bios selfcheck error (0xC00000 region).
Cyan = Memory card error (only tested if card in unit and blank).

WilalvesBR
01-19-2008, 03:47 PM
Blue = All tests passed (does not test z80).
Red = WorkRAM error (0x100000 region).
Green = PaletteRAM error (0x400000 region).
Yellow = VideoRAM error (programmed through custom port).
Pink = Bios selfcheck error (0xC00000 region).
Cyan = Memory card error (only tested if card in unit and blank).
Thanks :smirk:


Here (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v513/WilliamBR/Videos/?action=view&current=MOV03229.flv) is a video of what happens when i turn on my AES without any cart inserted.


Where are located the VideoRAM chips on a 3-5 motherboard?


Regards.

mmmonkey
08-07-2008, 02:27 PM
Hi

I've just got my hands on my first piece of Neo Geo, a faulty AES with a red screen. I had a look around the chips by the reset button and found a broken trace which I've bypassed with a piece of Kynar.

Now I get a blue screen on boot up :) It stays blue for a bit then starts blinking on and off - is this normal?

I don't have any carts yet, so can't test it fully. It's connected up via composite at the moment, until I RGB bypass it and make a RGB cable.

Anyone able to tell me if blinking blue is normal?

ta
Pete

channelmaniac
08-07-2008, 02:42 PM
If you get a click in the speaker each time the screen flickers then you are stuck in watchdog... meaning the CPU can't boot so it's getting hammered by the reset line over & over in hopes that it will start up.

Red screen = bad work RAM. That's the surface mount ram next to the CPU on the board.

I have the chips on my website and can repair your board for you if you don't know how to replace those.

RJ

mmmonkey
08-07-2008, 03:14 PM
Thank you for the quick reply!

There's no clicks going with the blinks. I turned the volume all the way up and also listened in on headphones. I get the click if I manually reset it but definately not when the screen blinks by itself.

And I've found out that if I hold the reset button for a second or longer and then let go of it then I get a blue screen that doesn't do anything - which I'm guessing is normal

Ta
Pete

channelmaniac
08-07-2008, 04:01 PM
Put a game in it and see if it plays... If it does then you are in business.

There will still be a problem in the power on reset line that will need to be fixed. I'm not in the shop right now to tell you which parts to check.

RJ

mmmonkey
08-07-2008, 04:46 PM
Cheers again. Just waiting to get my hands on a game to give it a test, if you get a chance to have a look and tell me what to check that would be great.

Ta
Pete

tony starks
08-07-2008, 08:39 PM
Cheers again. Just waiting to get my hands on a game to give it a test, if you get a chance to have a look and tell me what to check that would be great.

Ta
Pete

Got a spare Fatal Fury 2 Jpn Cart boxed if you want, free of charge if you ain't got any games to test your system.

mmmonkey
08-08-2008, 01:15 AM
Crikey, that's generous. I've just agreed to buy Fatal Fury Special off of buster_broon, Special is kind of like an update to 2 isn't it, otherwise I would have offered you some cash for it.

So I'll leave it ta.

Cheeio
Pete

tony starks
08-08-2008, 09:47 AM
Yeah Fatal Fury Special is better than Fatal Fury 2 imo. Ok mate, well tell us what happens when you finally receive FFS.

mmmonkey
08-09-2008, 07:23 AM
@ channelmaniac mainly - I've sorted the Blue screen flickering. It's a bit embarrasing really - it was the front AV sockets on my old TV! I'd spent hours with this tinkering round trying to figure it out!

Hopefully when Fatal Fury Special and Super Sidekicks 2 turns up I'll be having my first go on Neo-Geo :)

Pete

channelmaniac
08-09-2008, 10:14 AM
DOH!

That sucks. :(

mmmonkey
08-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Woohooo, it works! I couldn't believe it. Couldn't play a game though, the Start button on my stick wasn't registering - had to carefully remove the cover on the plug and push the contact back in place.

Too tired to play now though

Pete

tony starks
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Woohooo, it works! I couldn't believe it. Couldn't play a game though, the Start button on my stick wasn't registering - had to carefully remove the cover on the plug and push the contact back in place.

Too tired to play now though

Pete

Excellent news, enjoy the experience :buttrock:

Noth666
12-17-2008, 10:55 AM
Hi All,

I didnt know where to post this so I am posting it here. I guess there should be a specific thread but I could not find nor create one.

Anyways I have 3 Neo-Geo AES systems with differing issues.

System no1 - AES, mobo rev NEO-AES3-6 has OK picture but no sound at all, I've checked the board for traces broken or any component which looks damaged but everything looks clean and solid. If I move the jack about in the headphone socket I get a buzz but I think this is just shorting the headphone jack.

System no2 - AES, mobo rev NEO-AES3-3 has OK sound, but the picture is freaky.
When I have for example a fighter the character on the right side of the screen looks OK, but the top bar and texts look blitted in some way, missing pixels and colors, and the main character on the left half of the screen is drawn with the pixels in the wrong order in the sprite, making it look very funny. I can still play on it but almost all text is entirely garbled and so are the logo screens...

system no3 - AES, mobo rev NEO-AES (old 50.000 serial number unit) this unit is dead for the moment, but I believe it needs 9v/2AMP? Can anyone confirm if it works on any less than 2 amps? I did get a blue test=OK screen from this once with a 1 amp 9V PSU but never since then.

I would very much appreciate any pointers, hints, help or similar with these since I now have 3 AES systems in house, and none work properly :P.

-Noth666

channelmaniac
12-17-2008, 11:53 AM
OK n00b... it goes in Tech Support, not Boot or No Boot.

FIRST: CLEAN THE SLOTS AND THE CARTS. Most problems can be resolved by doing this first. Look at www.hardmvs.com for instructions. Clean the carts by disassembling them and using a pink pencil eraser on the contacts.

If that's not it then check the following:

System 1) Check the volume pot and if it's OK then replace the caps in the audio section. You probably have a bad one. If that's not it, check the connections between the audio ROMs on the cart and the sound subsystem on the board.

System 2) Look for bad traces or plated thru holes. See if the problems come and go if you put pressure on the top of the square NEO chipset chips. If pressure makes it look better/worse then that particular surface mount chip needs resoldering.

System 3) 9v 1.2a DC output.

Noth666
12-17-2008, 02:01 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, will post in tech supp next time :-).

The cart is clean and OK - it works in another system without issues.

system no1: no caps available to swap right now - but will definitely try it.

system no2: I guess I should also have mentioned it screws up also the Neo-Geo start screen. When the white background logo comes in it looks normal, and when it 'turns' it becomes garbled.
if it is drawing only one chunk of sprites it garbles all of it, but when you have 2 characters and background it brakes down like:
background all graphics OK
top score bar colors are incorrect, text is garbled
characters: one is garbled one is not.

I have it next to me open and running now, have been tapping chips but nothing seems to happen. It did restart a few times tapping one of the mem chips close to LSPC2 but it did not repeat this reliably either. I think this is where the issue is, but I would need to know which chip does what to have a better clue.

To render the idea:

if a character was composed like below pixel by pixel:
1a.2a.3a-1b.2b.3b-1c.2c.3c
this results in:
3a2a1a-3b2b1b-3c2c1c

In other words drawing the pixels in the opposite order, but keeping the 15 pixel lines.. no idea if this makes any sense, I think I need to take a pic of it...

Thankfull for any assistance or ideas

MKL
12-17-2008, 02:25 PM
system no3 - AES, mobo rev NEO-AES (old 50.000 serial number unit) this unit is dead for the moment, but I believe it needs 9v/2AMP? Can anyone confirm if it works on any less than 2 amps? I did get a blue test=OK screen from this once with a 1 amp 9V PSU but never since then.


NEO-AES is 5V/3A unless it has a power daughterboard (and empty area by the switch)

Noth666
12-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Update on the below

system 1: pot seems unlikely, there seems to be no signal through no scratching or humming or anything also moving the pot - so I am going for the caps.

system 2: no change, very much suspecting IC 43256 to the left but nothing seems wrong with it.
With sufficient info on what draws the sprites and if it uses a buffer reading from the cart it should be possible to narrow down I am thinking... ideas?

system 3: Thanks MKL, now I have blue screen without cart, but as soon as the cart is in it displays only WORK RAM TEST.
Atleast it is doing something now, but the PSU I am using is rated to 2.5A which might even be optimistic so I am going to source another PSU to test it with also. Good I didn't go and find a specific 9V psu for it, had already tested 3 sofar, 1a and smaller.

Any tips welcome ;-)

MKL
12-17-2008, 03:50 PM
Update on the below

system 1: pot seems unlikely, there seems to be no signal through no scratching or humming or anything also moving the pot - so I am going for the caps.


No sound from the A/V out and headphone out suggests a common origin for the problem, i.e. located somewhere in the audio circuit before each channel splits and takes two different paths. But there are no in-line caps in that part of the circuit so it could be a faulty DAC or op-amp.

Noth666
12-17-2008, 04:05 PM
No sound from the A/V out and headphone out suggests a common origin for the problem, i.e. located somewhere in the audio circuit before each channel splits and takes two different paths. But there are no in-line caps in that part of the circuit so it could be a faulty DAC or op-amp.

Thanks, very good point indeed, makes absolute sense.
Is there any possibility it is not reading any sounds from the cart or something like this? I don't know how the carts are organized so I would not know if it is possible...

also now system 2 seems to have died entirely, blocks all over the screen that do not move with cart in, restart brings a different color and order but still all garbled, and a kind of pixels run over blue screen without cart - might use it for parts if I cannot think of whats wrong as it definitely has fully working sound :P. I tested before it died, sounds great.

doctor_shred
12-17-2008, 05:09 PM
Hi, I'm sure you've already done this but make sure you have the right power supplies for the different consoles.

I had an AES that I thought was dead as I got a garbled screen and buzzing sound when used with my 9V supply.

It turned out it wasn't giving enough current, only 300mA. As soon as I tried a 9V 1.2A supply the AES worked perfectly.

MKL
12-18-2008, 05:44 AM
Thanks, very good point indeed, makes absolute sense.
Is there any possibility it is not reading any sounds from the cart or something like this? I don't know how the carts are organized so I would not know if it is possible...

If the cart connector were busted/dirty yes but you said it's OK/clean and tried multiple carts right? So it's more likely that it's a bad component on the mobo (YM2610, YM3016, 4741) or, but less likely, broken traces. Try tapping sound directly from the YM3016 (pin 10 = L, pin 11 = R), if you don't get any replace the DAC (too bad it's an obsolete/hard-to-find part).

Noth666
12-19-2008, 11:44 AM
Hmmh,

Would that not potentially damage something? Or should I just connect an amp to the pin and ground on TM3016 and check for sound?

Yes have tried different carts and they behave the same on all systems, although for a moment now when I plugged FF2 in to the system without sound, it gave me the same visuals as the one with the funky graphics, reseating the cart fixed that but still no sound of course.

Does anyone know how I could check the cart slot traces, ie a map of which pin on which IC or component which cart slot pin is connected to?

I would like to be able to check that they are all OK before taking to the soldering iron.

Has anyone heard of this kind of issue, where the system draws every other character correctly? To me this would seem like a rather straighforward thing to check provided I had the traces and knew which IC does what...

channelmaniac
12-20-2008, 08:10 PM
There are no schematics of the AES available... All you can do is find a pinout for the cartridge slot or make one by looking at which ROMs connect to which pins on the cartridge edge connector...

Once you figure that out then you can trace the path from the cart slot connector to see if you can find a bad trace or bad plated thru hole that needs patching. That's how I've found them.

RJ

lherre
01-16-2009, 01:40 PM
North666 I have the same problem with the sound in a aes 3.3 board.

I "hear" some "noise" in the headphone socket but no sound with the main av-sound connector.

I tried to put a connector in the pin 10 of the ym3016 pic but I haven't sound.

Eppe
02-10-2009, 12:22 AM
Hi North666 and lherre,

The system 1 sound problem seems to be recurrent, I have the exact same problem.

Did you succeed to get something working ?

Eppe
02-14-2009, 10:46 AM
[Deleted] will post in the correct section ...

dr.wily
09-18-2012, 05:13 AM
Bump this topic for another AES restoration.

Motherboard is a first gen NEO-AES.

- Powering up the system without cart gives a yellow screen
- Powering up the system with cart gives garbled graphics with sound.

Visual inspection of video memory chips and traces (near reset button) don't seem to be broken. This system works fine since 1992, year of purchase. Photos on demand.

Thanks

fremen
09-18-2012, 06:03 AM
Hi,

I think this is in the wrong treat, this issue is for tech forum. but any way

http://www.arcadecomponents.com/repairlogs.html#109431

Yellow means: Video RAM error (programmed through custom port).

Saludos

smkdan
09-18-2012, 07:16 AM
I agree with posting in the main tech forum in case someone misses it here.

There's 2 types of video memory that do completely different things. You can tell what to look at depending on the type of glitching. If the text in memory card menu, controller test, "CREDIT xx" / "LEVEL-x" / lifebars etc. is OK and everything else is bad, then it's probably the 2K chips at fault (small pair of DIP ones). If those are also glitched then it may be the 32K ones but a photo of gameplay and the neogeo startup screen would help.

dr.wily
09-18-2012, 11:13 AM
fremen --> If a moderator can move this topic in the right section... thanks for url, but I already know channelmaniac's website. He provided me a very good work in the past on a AES system.

smkdan -->

If the text in memory card menu, controller test, "CREDIT xx" / "LEVEL-x" / lifebars etc. is OK and everything else is bad, then it's probably the 2K chips at fault (small pair of DIP ones). If those are also glitched then it may be the 32K

Interesting info thanks. I took some pics :

- KOF98 boot screen (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-98-btscr.jpg)
- KOF98 title screen (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-98-ttscr.jpg)
- KOF98 menu (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-98-menu.jpg)

- KOF2k boot screen (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-2k-btscr.jpg)
- KOF2k title screen (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-2k-ttscr.jpg)
- KOF2k ingame (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/kof-2k-ingame.jpg)

- Memory Card menu (http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/ng-mc-menu.jpg)

smkdan
09-19-2012, 05:48 AM
The bad text in memcard menu and glitching in game is definitely not the 2K chips. I think there is a data problem with the 32K chips but this is just my guess work using your pics without error info like on MVS. You have LSPC-A0 (http://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=LSPC-A0) on a first gen system. The "Slow VRAM" stuff is for the 32k RAMs connected to it with SVD0~SVD7, SVD8~SVD15 going to different RAMs. There is also the address in that pinout but your screenshots point to data problem. Can you test those connections?

dr.wily
09-21-2012, 03:08 PM
connections has been tested. There is a bad trace on SVD9 line. This AES system works flawlessly now. I let a pic of SVD pinout lines (0 to 15) between lspc and ram chips for future fix. Only for first AES system only .

http://wellby.dyndns.org/dnl/img/svram-aes.png

Thanks for your help.

Late
09-21-2012, 03:17 PM
AES is literally undead because we drink the overpriced true blood