Neo Geo on HDTV-viewing problems

T

Travis Ingram

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Posts
15
Have you guys experienced this?
My older systems: Neo Geo, SNES, N64 all look like garbage when viewed on my LCD HDTV. I'm running all systems on S-video, but the picture on the tv is below-composite quality. Why? When running the newer systems such as PS2 and Gamecube on composite, and of course, component, the tv is awesome. Any help greatly appreciated here. Thanks in advance.
 
Argentina94

Argentina94

Slug Flyer Pilot
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Posts
3,906
LCD sets are bad for displaying low resolution images. Despite the fact you use an S-Video connection, it is still 480i.

This is the same reason standard cable TV looks like ass on an LCD.

Generally, a tube is best for your older systems. I know you like having all your systems hookup up to one set (so do I), I'm afraid your older systems will not look good at all.
 
Xian Xi

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Posts
27,762
Travis Ingram said:
Have you guys experienced this?
My older systems: Neo Geo, SNES, N64 all look like garbage when viewed on my LCD HDTV. I'm running all systems on S-video, but the picture on the tv is below-composite quality. Why? When running the newer systems such as PS2 and Gamecube on composite, and of course, component, the tv is awesome. Any help greatly appreciated here. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Run your neo geo in component not s-video, BIG difference. The N64 is always gonna look like crap though.
 
Dr. Jigglin

Dr. Jigglin

Seasoned Expert
20 Year Member
10 Year Member
15 Year Member
1 Year Member
25 Year Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
25,449
I was also thinking about what the Neo would look like on an LCD HDTV. If I say build a supergun and use a Neo bitz for the video and hook it up to my TV via component, it will look close to what it does on an RGB monitor? or will it still look like shit?

This might save me some space ;).
 
ttooddddyy

ttooddddyy

PNG FTW,
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Posts
8,335
As well as the resolution issue, who would really want to stretch/distort to fit a wide screen.

Neo is best rendered on 4:3 CRT as it was designed imho.
 
T

Travis Ingram

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Posts
15
If the older systems are modified to output RGB, that should do away with the problem, right? The site gamesx.com shows various RGB pinouts for many systems. Does RGB output equate to component output? Will RGB be 480p? Thanks for your replies, guys.
 
Xian Xi

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Posts
27,762
Travis Ingram said:
If the older systems are modified to output RGB, that should do away with the problem, right? The site gamesx.com shows various RGB pinouts for many systems. Does RGB output equate to component output? Will RGB be 480p? Thanks for your replies, guys.
Click to expand...

RGB is not the same as component, 2 different frequencies.
 
Dr. Jigglin

Dr. Jigglin

Seasoned Expert
20 Year Member
10 Year Member
15 Year Member
1 Year Member
25 Year Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
25,449
Would it still look like crap if I set the tv to 4:3? I mean I don't play it for more than an hour max so any burn in wouldn't be hard to get rid of with a white screen for a bit.
 
T

Travis Ingram

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Posts
15
Yes, it still would. Doing that wouldn't help anything. Many LCD tv sets have an RGB input. I'm thinking I may upgrade my Neo or SNES to see if this helps.
 
V

Ven

Kabuki Klasher
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Posts
124
With HDTV, it's not so much the signal quality, or what settings you choose... it's old signal standards out of the consoles/arcade boards that will eternally screw you. ESPECIALLY because they are interlaced (dun dun dun).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

THIS is your biggest enemy. You need the video fields put back together, quickly, if you're gonna enjoy those games. Otherwise, they make look pretty, but they'll be laggy.

Once that's done, the resizing isn't so tough, but it needs to be done quickly as well. Another problem to add to the stack.

You can't wrangle your PC to do it... believe me, I've TRIED. It's not fast enough, even if you add a big spoiler to the back.

There wasn't enough demand in the past for these problems to be addressed, and the technology wasn't there... until now. This month, no less. The BAD news is... well... it's not for financially-challenged gamers. Got 3 grand lying around? Sure you do! It's just like buying Metal Slug!

http://gear.ign.com/articles/718/718587p1.html
http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp50.php

JUST IN TIME FOR CHRISTMAS OMG THE FUTURE IS NOW OMG OMG I'm POOR! I can't BUY one!

If any of you do, take pictures, I wanna see how King of Fighters looks. :buttrock:
 
V

Ven

Kabuki Klasher
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Posts
124
Psst... also...

http://www.dvdo.com/ord.php

They have the last model, the VP20, with the upgrade card for game modes for only $1900. Just as good. :D

Although you lose the ability to deinterlace 1080i. That might come in handy in the future.
 
Last edited:
Dr. Jigglin

Dr. Jigglin

Seasoned Expert
20 Year Member
10 Year Member
15 Year Member
1 Year Member
25 Year Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
25,449
May aswell just get the neo geo games from the collection releases then lol.
 
norton9478

norton9478

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Posts
34,075
For some reason, I always thought that standard RGB was 240 P
 
caleb1883

caleb1883

Super Spy Agent
Joined
May 24, 2006
Posts
600
Xian Xi said:
Run your neo geo in component not s-video, BIG difference. The N64 is always gonna look like crap though.
Click to expand...

Would this make it look better on a SD tv as well?
 
V

Ven

Kabuki Klasher
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Posts
124
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor9.php - ooh a GOOD document.

Blanking lines bring the image area down to 224, hence... the Neo renders at 304x224.

Then you've got the x384 mode... "medium resolution". CPS-3 runs at 512x384. And so on.

Because it renders in lines, the horizontal resolution doesn't matter as much.

It's more about the quality of the NTSC conversion than S-Video or Component, when it comes to 480i. That's why the component mod looks so good. It's component, and it's a better converter.

So the component from a Neo will look better for that reason, because it's not using the antiquated Sony chip inside.

When running S-Video and Component from the SAME converter, at 480i resolution... I've never found THAT much of a difference.
 
R

ResO

water damaged
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2001
Posts
8,000
Have you calibrated your set accurately? A well calibrated HDTV does much more justice to low-res games than a non-calibrated set.
 
J

jrok

n00b
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Posts
33
This sounds like problems I've run into recently with LCD's de-interlacing.

The output from these consoles, and the NEO is basically 240p, there's no second interlaced field. The output isn't interlaced but to the TV looks like 480i so it just goes ahead and attempts to de-interlace....

This whole thing then freaks the hell out of the LCD's built in de-interlacer and the net result is a nice bouncing picture with it stuttering up-and-down by a few lines. Different gameboards and composite/s-video/component didn't make any difference.

The only way it appears to correct it is to turn off automatic de-interlacer in the TV's setup IF the TV support it.

OR..... line doubling using a component to VGA box, that can result in a fairly decent picture.

Not ALL panels do this.. but a good few seem too.

- James
 
V

Ven

Kabuki Klasher
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Posts
124
OH, I get it... 240p, at 60 refreshes a second. How very, very clever of them. I had completely forgotten about this website, too...

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

It should have occurred to me that older console makers wouldn't bother spending money on a chip that interlaced the output before it hit the TV. Just send 240p at 60Hz.

So, does that mean the Neo AES output is 304x224 (MVS), with 8 lines of black at the top and bottom to make up the missing 16 lines? That would make sense.

So... then the line doubler turns 240p into 480p as fast as possible... and I've seen that before. I used to own an XRGB-2. It's not so great.

I'm just gonna have to save up for the DVDO, because my PS2 does 480i, and I'd like to play some of those games decently on HDTV someday.

How depressing...
 
2Dfan

2Dfan

Formerly "Dreamer"
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Posts
2,444
I remeber kpj posting pictures of his mvs running on an lcd and it looked awesome. My AES has been modded with RGB from the chip by MKL, so it will look exactly as awesome...the bad thing is, I don't have an lcd to test it on..

Doesn't it have to do something with the lcd being able to output low res?
 
Dr. Jigglin

Dr. Jigglin

Seasoned Expert
20 Year Member
10 Year Member
15 Year Member
1 Year Member
25 Year Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
25,449
LCD's are made up of pixels so anything thats not at its native res doesn't look crash hot although some do, it all really depends on what's being shown.
Does anyone know if the NEOGEO collections that SNKP has been releasing for PS2 support 480p? or will I have to hold triange and x everytime I want to boot in at480p?
 
V

Ven

Kabuki Klasher
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Posts
124
If anything, it has to do with the LCD being able to disable the deinterlacer. That way, the 240p in RGB from the Neo won't be tampered with.
 
T

Travis Ingram

n00b
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Posts
15
The recent PS2 game, Shadow of the Colossus, is playable in Progressive scan with component cables. So it looks the PS2 can display 480p. I'd like to see pics of any Neos running on RGB with LCD tvs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top