eBay transaction gone afoul. Opinions?

I've recently decided to thin out my collection a bit, and one of the games I put up on the auction block was Metal Slug (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180002269735). Now, this is a game I bought from Yaton a few months ago, and since it always played as expected from beginning to end, I never thought to open it up and see if it was a bootleg or not. Since the gameplay was fine, it just never crossed my mind to check out the guts of it.

Anyways, the buyer of my auction sent this to me this evening:

> I was the winning bidder of your Metal Slug MVS cartridge for the Neo Geo
> System.
>
> We received it today but it is not an authentic cartridge. It contains
> bootleg chips (fake/copied). We haven't even tried playing it due to the
> fact it's a illegal game.
>
> I'd like to send it back for a refund due to it's nature.
>
> Please refund our money via paypal.


Now, I always go at great lengths to make my buyers happy, but I'm quite torn on this issue. I never stated that the cart was authentic or anything of the sort. I was assuming it was, but its legitimacy was honestly something that never crossed my mind while I was listing it (or during the whole time that I owned it for that matter). Whatever the case, I never said it was or wasn't legit. I feel like the buyer is asking for a refund over something that was never advertised in the auction. I also feel kinda iffy about refunding money for a cart that a complete stranger has opened up, with there being no telling how it was handled in the process.

And to just complicate it all, I honestly have no idea if it's a boot or not, and without it being in my possession, I sure as hell can't check it out.

edit: KPJ isn't the type of person to switch PCB's, so all that was in this paragraph is a moot point and thus deleated. I should have checked out the auction first before posting.

Next time open up the case and take pics of the PCB's and post them in the auction and that will cut out this kind of thing.

The only time I get upset and demand a partial refund is if the game is advertised 100% legit and it is 100% bootleg. If no mention of is made of it's legitimacy, then I assume it is a boot until I recieve it and open it up.

KPJ, who is a member of this forum, is the one who bought it from you. He may be very shrewd and business minded, but he's not a thief or a con artist. I'd give him the refund. Always check to see if your carts are legit!!!

KPJ is a respected member, and big into the neo scene for awhile now.

He is being honest and straight forward with you, I would do the right thing and refund his money TODAY - otherwised don't be surprised if everyone here is leary of your future sales.

Considering this is the largest forum dedicated to this dead system, I would say that is pretty significant.

We already worked it all out yesterday and I told him I would be giving him a full refund. There's no ill feelings or anything, and straightening out the situation has been both professional and pleasant. If anything (and I'm sure the buyer would agree), I just wish that he would have asked me before buying if it was a legit copy or not -- especially since that's what he was specifically looking for, and my auction made no authenticity claims and was stated as being sold "as-is". It sure would have saved a lot of time and money (in eBay/PayPal/shipping fees) for the both of us.

Again, I didn't know either way whether it was a boot or not, and never thought to question its legitimacy. I love the NEO and all, but I'm not overly fanatical about it -- feeling the need to dissect every piece of hardware (I can appreciate those that do, though). If a game seems straight, then I just assume it is. And since pretty much every NEO game (including the Metal Slug in question) I've ever had was acquired through Yaton (who I've always heard was a reputable and legit dealer), I just thought it was all cool.


(edited cause good grammar is HARD)

Joey Connelly said:

I've ever had was acquired through Yaton (who I've always heard was a reputable and legit dealer)

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You have to watch it with that guy, read the fine print. Most people are lucky with him but he has been known to sell tons of boots.

Joey Connelly said:

If a game seems straight, then I just assume it is.

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Never assume with Neo carts, these aren't SNES games were talking about here.

ki_atsushi said:

Never assume with Neo carts, these aren't SNES games were talking about here.

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that's right...boots galore...I swear sometimes it seems as if there are more boots the legit copies of games.

I just got burned on a Strikers 1945. Not burned yet, but the seller is a total asswipe about it and claims it isn't boot even though its packed with 2-3x the normal eeprom chips as a normal cart, and has solder burn marks on the PCB.

I scored it for $60 complete, but never did the "Look what I scored on ebay!" brag because I knew something wasn't right for that price,

Sad thing is it came with complete original art set, with a holo SNK sticker on it and all. You can never be too careful.

topher said:

that's right...boots galore...I swear sometimes it seems as if there are more boots the legit copies of games.

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I was going to say the same thing.

dubdubdub said:

I just got burned on a Strikers 1945. Not burned yet, but the seller is a total asswipe about it and claims it isn't boot even though its packed with 2-3x the normal eeprom chips as a normal cart, and has solder burn marks on the PCB.

I scored it for $60 complete, but never did the "Look what I scored on ebay!" brag because I knew something wasn't right for that price,

Sad thing is it came with complete original art set, with a holo SNK sticker on it and all. You can never be too careful.

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Wow, they made the effort to obtain original art to pass a boot? Damn that sucks.

Shit, the art is probably worth $30 of that $60 you spent. Boots are boots though, kill that seller!

topher said:

edit: KPJ isn't the type of person to switch PCB's, so all that was in this paragraph is a moot point and thus deleated.

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ki_atsushi said:

KPJ, who is a member of this forum, is the one who bought it from you. He may be very shrewd and business minded, but he's not a thief or a con artist. I'd give him the refund. Always check to see if your carts are legit!!!

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dubdubdub said:

KPJ is a respected member, and big into the neo scene for awhile now.

He is being honest and straight forward with you, I would do the right thing and refund his money TODAY - otherwised don't be surprised if everyone here is leary of your future sales.

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Guys,

I appreciate your kind words. I open up each & every MVS cart that comes thru due to this very reason. The label looked original (although it was missing serial #s completely) but you could tell immediately from the (4) shell screws & the PCB connectors. We contacted Joey within minutes of receiving the package asking for a complete refund.

It's totally understandable that most people are not this anal about their cartridges, but as it's no surprise, many of these games are used for conversions (oh my god!). I only use authentic hardware in my projects/modifications.

(to Joey) BTW, the cart is on it's way back to you; it was sent out Saturday afternoon.

Kpj

Joey Connelly said:

And since pretty much every NEO game (including the Metal Slug in question) I've ever had was acquired through Yaton (who I've always heard was a reputable and legit dealer), I just thought it was all cool.

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I would crack open the Metal Slug 3 cartridge that you have up for auction. I'd guess that it's a fake also.

Kpj

Quick question from a noob.....does the whole bootleg problem affect MVS games, or do they get into the bootlegging with AES games as well. I usually buy only mint condition boxed AES games, but I never thought someone would go to the trouble of duplicating the boxes/art/instruction manuals to go along with a bootlegged game. Thx

XM Iron Otaku

Well, I've never seen an AES "boot" as itself... the closest thing is a conversion MVS --> AES, it's not a boot... but not also an original AES game (you can find a lot of Metal Slugs and Pulstars on ebay as conversion).

as I said, "I'VE NEVER SEEN", don't know if there are AES boots... mmmm if there are boots, would be nice to know a 'how to avoid' Maybe those have an "Y-PLUS" logo on it's side LOL! (search Y-PLUS on ebay stores )

Thanks for the info, I didn't think it would be too easy to do, but some people are desperate for money and will do anything to get it.

XM IronOtaku said:

Quick question from a noob.....does the whole bootleg problem affect MVS games, or do they get into the bootlegging with AES games as well. I usually buy only mint condition boxed AES games, but I never thought someone would go to the trouble of duplicating the boxes/art/instruction manuals to go along with a bootlegged game. Thx

XM Iron Otaku

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Just be really weary of any AES cart with no instruction manual. That would be the hardest thing to duplicate, and I haven't seen a conversion with a manual.

ironish said:

Just be really weary of any AES cart with no instruction manual. That would be the hardest thing to duplicate, and I haven't seen a conversion with a manual.

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Some conversions come with high-quality manual, such as !Arcade!'s Prehistoric Isle 2/Strikers 1945/Ganryu, NGF's Zupapa and Carlson's Zupapa US/JPN versions.

The Arcade version are such high-quality that one would be hard pressed to recognize it as an unofficial SNK release without having a lot of background Neo Geo history knowledge.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

Kiselgof said:

Some conversions come with high-quality manual, such as !Arcade!'s Prehistoric Isle 2/Strikers 1945/Ganryu, NGF's Zupapa and Carlson's Zupapa US/JPN versions.

The Arcade version are such high-quality that one would be hard pressed to recognize it as an unofficial SNK release without having a lot of background Neo Geo history knowledge.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

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So.. are you trying to tell me that the Euro Quiz Chibi Kiselgof Cart you sold me with the color manual that has your face on the front of the Insert is a Conversion?!?!?!?! Say it aint so!!!

Phillip