Ghostlop tech help

TerryMathews · Jan 20, 2006

I need to get a few questions answered about Ghostlop, and don't want to discuss it in open forum since people frown on it.

Can someone that makes/made Ghostlop carts and has some tech experience with it PM me? I need some technical advice about why mine isn't working

Superfamifreak · Jan 20, 2006

What's your problem?

TerryMathews · Jan 20, 2006

Well, basically I can't get it to boot. My machines have UniBIOS installed, and it comes up to the cross hatch screen. If I do memory viewer, I get code for a little while, then everything is FFFF FFFF. I've verified every chip on my programmer - it says they're what they should be.

Could it be the jumper settings? I sacced a SamSho II, and only removed the chips I needed to replace.

C1: 27c160
C2: 27c160
V1: 27c160
P1: 27c160
S1: 27c301
M1: 27c301*

*I rewired the board so that the pinout for M1 is 531000, not 531001. I cut pins 2 and 24 and run new traces to the test points on the board that were connected to those pins. According to the spec sheet I found, that's the only difference between them. At any rate, M1 shouldn't be a show-stopper right?

dogtoy · Jan 20, 2006

Ghostlop uses different size rom chips than SamSho II so you will need to change the jumper settings to match another game which uses the same PCBs as SamShoII but with roms the same size and configuration as Ghostlop (IE: number of p, v, and c chips as well as chip size).

You may even have to remove some LS chips depending on chip configuration/size. Hope that makes sense and helps some.

cheers,
-DT

*EDIT*
If you used a 27C160 for ghostlop C rom you might have to multiply the data for the C rom so that it filled a 27C160 (which is may be larger than the original ghostlop chip) that way the data would be available at the correct address. For example if you want to put a universe bios on a 27C4096 or 27C4002 you will have to multiply the image by four, as in, put the 27C1024 universe BIOS image on the chip 4 times. Same for all those other chips you listed above, if they are not the same size as the rom image.

I don't remember how big the ghostlop roms are i'm not sure that a 27C160 is necessary?

Why would you rewire M1 when you can use a 27C010/27C1001 which is much easier to find than 27C301?
http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/spies.cgi?action=url&type=info&page=ROMref.txt
*/EDIT*

TerryMathews · Jan 20, 2006

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127370&highlight=ghostlop+tech This one.

dogtoy said:
Ghostlop uses different size rom chips than SamSho II so you will need to change the jumper settings to match another game which uses the same PCBs as SamShoII but with roms the same size and configuration as Ghostlop (IE: number of p, v, and c chips as well as chip size).

You may even have to remove some LS chips depending on chip configuration/size. Hope that makes sense and helps some.

cheers,
-DT

*EDIT*
If you used a 27C160 for ghostlop C rom you might have to multiply the data for the C rom so that it filled a 27C160 (which is may be larger than the original ghostlop chip) that way the data would be available at the correct address. For example if you want to put a universe bios on a 27C4096 or 27C4002 you will have to multiply the image by four, as in, put the 27C1024 universe BIOS image on the chip 4 times. Same for all those other chips you listed above, if they are not the same size as the rom image.

I don't remember how big the ghostlop roms are i'm not sure that a 27C160 is necessary?

Why would you rewire M1 when you can use a 27C010/27C1001 which is much easier to find than 27C301?
http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/spies.cgi?action=url&type=info&page=ROMref.txt
*/EDIT*

Dunno, I was going off the old Ghostlop tech help thread for which chips to use. This one.

I'm starting to think that I've got the wrong EPROMs though - my romset has Ghostlop C1 and C2 as 4MB files - 32Mbits. 27c160 is a 16Mbit chip...

I rewired from 27c010 to 27c301 because I've got a whole tube of 301s here and I'd have to source some 010s.

EDIT: I don't completely understand how the C banks work. Can I split ghostlop-c1.rom and ghostlop-c2.rom into halves and put them into C1-C4? Or is the addressing hard-wired into a per-chip sort of thing?

Superfamifreak · Jan 21, 2006

dogtoy said:
Ghostlop uses different size rom chips than SamSho II so you will need to change the jumper settings to match another game which uses the same PCBs as SamShoII but with roms the same size and configuration as Ghostlop (IE: number of p, v, and c chips as well as chip size).

I'm sure I've seen a Ghostlop with no changes to the actual SS2 board. If I remember right, it was Lithy that had it.

Amano Jacu · Jan 21, 2006

If I had an eprom burner maybe I'd try to build a Ghostlop cart as well.

channelmaniac · Jan 21, 2006

TerryMathews said:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127370&highlight=ghostlop+tech This one.

Dunno, I was going off the old Ghostlop tech help thread for which chips to use. This one.

I'm starting to think that I've got the wrong EPROMs though - my romset has Ghostlop C1 and C2 as 4MB files - 32Mbits. 27c160 is a 16Mbit chip...

I rewired from 27c010 to 27c301 because I've got a whole tube of 301s here and I'd have to source some 010s.

EDIT: I don't completely understand how the C banks work. Can I split ghostlop-c1.rom and ghostlop-c2.rom into halves and put them into C1-C4? Or is the addressing hard-wired into a per-chip sort of thing?

I hope you aren't trying to put the 4Mb files on the 27c301s... as those are 1Mb chips.

TerryMathews · Jan 21, 2006

channelmaniac said:
I hope you aren't trying to put the 4Mb files on the 27c301s... as those are 1Mb chips.

Nope, 27c301s are getting M1 and S1, each 128KB or 1Mbit.

I think my problems now lie in 3 possible places:
A) I need to split C1 and C2 into C1-C4
B) I need to double the size of P1, it only fills half of a 27c160
C) Jumper settings may be wrong

I know that the C roms can be split, I traced the C rom sockets last night with a multimeter. I was trying to test with Nebula and got corruption. Trying to decide if I should just go ahead with what I think will work or not...

TerryMathews · Jan 22, 2006

Got my Ghostlop cart working.

Splitting the C rom did it - C1 split in half at 200000, into C1 and C3. C2 the same to C2 and C4. Burn and install.

And yes, I did have to double P1 to make it all work.

channelmaniac · Jan 22, 2006

TerryMathews said:
Got my Ghostlop cart working.

WooHoo!

dogtoy · Jan 22, 2006

TerryMathews said:
Got my Ghostlop cart working. Splitting the C rom did it - C1 split in half at 200000, into C1 and C3. C2 the same to C2 and C4. Burn and install.

And yes, I did have to double P1 to make it all work.

when you split C1 into C1 and C3 did you just leave it as half and use a 27C160?

so if I were to replicate this I'd get:

C1 - 27c160
C2 - 27c160
C3 - 27c160
C4 - 27c160

P1 - 27c800
V1 - 27c160

S1 - 27c301
M1 - 27c010

Can I just split the rom images with a hex editor?

Sorry I decided to embark on this project as well a few months back and never got beyond buying supplies as other things were more important at the time.

cheers,
-DT

TerryMathews · Jan 22, 2006

dogtoy said:
when you split C1 into C1 and C3 did you just leave it as half and use a 27C160?

so if I were to replicate this I'd get:

C1 - 27c160
C2 - 27c160
C3 - 27c160
C4 - 27c160

P1 - 27c800
V1 - 27c160

S1 - 27c301
M1 - 27c010

Can I just split the rom images with a hex editor?

Sorry I decided to embark on this project as well a few months back and never got beyond buying supplies as other things were more important at the time.

cheers,
-DT

That all looks right. You can use 27c160 for P1 if you double the rom, or join it to itself. You can also rewire S1 or M1 to be either type of chip. You just need to cut the traces at pins 2 and 24 and run new wires between the leg of the chip and the test points on the board.

As to the C roms, you can use a hex editor or there's a program called hjsplit that works well. If you're going the hex editor route, you need to split at 200000 (IE gl-c1.rom runs contains through 1FFFFF, gl-c3.rom starts at 200000 and runs through 3FFFFF).

That's the other thing you've got to keep in mind - theres an even bank and an odd bank. When you split C1, it becomes C1 and C3. C2 becomes C2 and C4.

dogtoy · Jan 30, 2006

TerryMathews said:
As to the C roms, you can use a hex editor or there's a program called hjsplit that works well. If you're going the hex editor route, you need to split at 200000 (IE gl-c1.rom runs contains through 1FFFFF, gl-c3.rom starts at 200000 and runs through 3FFFFF).

That's the other thing you've got to keep in mind - theres an even bank and an odd bank. When you split C1, it becomes C1 and C3. C2 becomes C2 and C4.

I got that part, but did you double the resulting half images to make them fill a 27c160?

cheers,
-DT

TerryMathews · Jan 30, 2006

dogtoy said:
I got that part, but did you double the resulting half images to make them fill a 27c160?

cheers,
-DT

Nope, half of the standard size C-rom fills a 160 perfectly. gl-c1.rom from ghostlop.zip is 4,096KB (32Mbit). A 27c160 is 16Mbit, or 2,048KB.

NipRing · Jan 31, 2006

Wow, no wonder tech has its own forum, its just like the Int'l threads.....i can pronounce the words but i dont know what their sayin :eek_2:

~bill

dogtoy · Jan 31, 2006

TerryMathews said:
Nope, half of the standard size C-rom fills a 160 perfectly. gl-c1.rom from ghostlop.zip is 4,096KB (32Mbit). A 27c160 is 16Mbit, or 2,048KB.

-kay, I didn't know if they were 2MB or 4MB. This actually helps a lot. Because basically whatever PROG and CHA boards you use will work as long as you use chips that match the size from the original game, then just split the images and multiply them until they fit. You could probably take any small game like ghostlop and put it on any larger board without changing any of the jumper settings, just by properly splitting up the roms.

cheers,
-DT

TerryMathews · Jan 31, 2006

dogtoy said:
-kay, I didn't know if they were 2MB or 4MB. This actually helps a lot. Because basically whatever PROG and CHA boards you use will work as long as you use chips that match the size from the original game, then just split the images and multiply them until they fit. You could probably take any small game like ghostlop and put it on any larger board without changing any of the jumper settings, just by properly splitting up the roms.

cheers,
-DT

I think that's probably why the C-roms are laid out like they are in the ghostlop.zip. Whoever dumped it probably had it booted in a game that supported higher density chips like SSIV or one of the later, pre-encryption KOFs like 97.

I'm really happy I did this project, I feel like I understand 90% of how a Neo cart actually works. College education put to use FTW!

Nightmare Tony · Feb 1, 2006

Wierd. The ChAracter Roms should NOT give you a grid screen.

The grids screen is caused by the PRG (Program) roms not being read properly. If I remember correctly, the first code in the ROm is SNK NEO GEO or something that effect

(ok, its been a couple of years, I am now running an engineering lab and making entertainment systems for expensive cars

.

The C1/2 3/4 would be the even/odd split.

also, you CAN run the Ghostlop roms in MAME.

TerryMathews · Feb 1, 2006

Nightmare Tony said:
Wierd. The ChAracter Roms should NOT give you a grid screen.

The grids screen is caused by the PRG (Program) roms not being read properly. If I remember correctly, the first code in the ROm is SNK NEO GEO or something that effect (ok, its been a couple of years, I am now running an engineering lab and making entertainment systems for expensive cars .

The C1/2 3/4 would be the even/odd split.

also, you CAN run the Ghostlop roms in MAME.

The grid was due to the P1 not filling the ROM I had installed, once I doubled it, it worked fine.

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