about the freaks. SNK RESPONSE

[gunrock46]

[EDITOR'S NOTE: In the NGF saga, this thread serves as the prelude to SNK's legal actions against Dion Dakis, Chris Ray and their NGF --cementing the fact that they were not the saviors of the Neo Geo that they had long claimed (even as most had stopped believing them). On a seperate note, this is also the thread where Judge Dredd matured into the character he is today.]

here's the email i sent to snk:

"My question is in regards to a site I recently came across while looking to purchase Neo Geo home games. The site(s) question <a href="http://www.♥♥♥♥♥♥.com" target="_blank">www.♥♥♥♥♥♥.com</a> and <a href="http://www.♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥." target="_blank">www.♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.</a> On both of these sites they make comment on selling "corrected" inserts. I have contacted the site moderators inquiring to what "corrected" means and they both clearly state they are re-printing original inserts with a corrected spine. They also have stated they are doing this on your (SNK) behalf. Since I see you (SNK) still hold the copyrights to these inserts and have been unable to find and evidence of them owning these on the U.S. copyright web site I was just wondering if you have given them permission to reprint these inserts and resell them on their website? I also saw on the website a fact that stated:

"How much do I have to change in my own work to make a new claim of copyright?
You may make a new claim in your work if the changes are substantial and creative -- something more than just editorial changes or minor changes. This would qualify as a new derivative work. For instance, simply making spelling corrections throughout a work does not warrant a new registration -- adding an additional chapter would. See Circular 14 for further information."

Wouldn't that make what they're doing illegal? I would really like to know about this because I am interested in purchasing games from them but I would like to know I'm not purchasing an illegal and/or bootleg copy of a Neo Geo games.

Sincerely,
Scott"

here's their response to this:

"Hello Scott,
In regards to your recent email concerning ♥♥♥♥♥♥.com, they have no
right to change or reprint any of the home cartridges inserts. They are
clearly NOT doing this on our behalf.
Regards,

SNK NEOGEO USA CORP."

I think this is a clear message for chris, dion , any of YOU that have purchased games from them and all their fucked up worshipers. Now I hope snk goes after these assholes.

[Rage of the Spyder]

Scott,
Email them back and see if any course of action is being taken against them. I want them to fry... No one dicks with SNK and gets away with it....

Mike

[SamuraiShodownSensei]

[quote]Originally posted by Rage of the Spyder:
<strong>Scott,
Email them back and see if any course of action is being taken against them. I want them to fry... No one dicks with SNK and gets away with it....

Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>


if there is legal action pending, SNK WOULD NOT be explaining the details to a person sending an email. that kind of stuff is kept quiet until it actually happens. the response i got back was, "I cannot comment on this issue at this time"

so stop asking SNKneogeo what they are going to do about the freaks. wait and see.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: SamuraiShodownSensei ]</p>

[xzibit190]

fry neofreak fry <img src="graemlins/blowtop.gif" border="0" alt="[Blow Top]" />

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by SamuraiShodownSensei:
<strong>


if there is legal action pending, SNK WOULD NOT be explaining the details to a person sending an email. that kind of stuff is kept quiet until it actually happens. the response i got back was, "I cannot comment on this issue at this time"

so stop asking SNKneogeo what they are going to do about the freaks. wait and see.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: SamuraiShodownSensei ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually they may. If they've filed suit against them one would only need to know the county in which the suit was filed. Then a simple call to the clerks of courts and a request for the case info would explain everything. Finding out which county or whether they've filed is the semi-difficult part.

[SamuraiShodownSensei]

SNK has to be careful about what they say. If they do go to court, I'm sure SNK does not want Dion telling the judge SNK was slandering their name, that would only complicate the case.

[aria]

I think their response translates to:

"They're doing what?"

...with a subtle unwritten subtext of "We'll look into it"

[Bishamon]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>I think their response translates to:

"They're doing what?"

...with a subtle unwritten subtext of "We'll look into it"</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. :)

[snkneogeousaCTH]

I hope SNK busts'em. It'd be funny to see the "big tymers" doin' time in the state pen... LOL.

[Dolphin]

I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
<strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would be willing to donate money on behalf of SNK to sue these guys. Suing them based on their antics is stupid and should be remembered by people reading this. Suing them for U.S. federal copyright laws is something I'm all for. Wouldn't most members here donate some cash to at least watch this court case. If somebody's willing to spend $2,495 on metal slug certainly they could donate $200 :)

[K hunter]

fry in hell, NGF!!!

i'd be in for that as well..

[VinylBoy]

nLord:
<strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong>[/QUOTE]

That's probably the reason why they haven't been shut down by authorities by now. They talk a big game about having thousands of customers, when in reality they can barely sell one or two items to people.

All the insert ripping? I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the people who are photographed are ripping photocopied inserts that they claim to be "real" just to get people all wound up.

If people did want to try and shut them down, they would send Playmore some of NGF's supposed "official product" so they can see for themselves what they are doing. From the inserts, to the converted carts with ERPOMS, to the autographed Neo Geos. People who have been burned by them should send a "care package" to Playmore to help speed things along. Just a suggestion...

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
<strong> After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, actually you'd be surprise what a well written legal notice/warning can do.

Especially considering there isn't any controversy (what they they are doing is clearly wrong), all SNK Neo Geo USA would have to do is hand the info to the appropriate authority.

Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</p>

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>

Well, actually you'd be surprise what a well written legal notice/warning can do.

Especially considering there isn't any controversy (what they they are doing is clearly wrong), all SNK Neo Geo USA would have to do is hand the info to the appropriate authority.

Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You gotta a point about just mailing a letter. From communication I've had with them about this and the rambling they have on their website they seem to think SNK/Playmore are nothing but a bunch of pussies. It'd be nice to see them flex some muscle at these guys and get off the rom site stuff for a min. Anyone thought about just corrupting roms and re-distributing them across the net. You'd be suprised how quickly that stuff could spead. No virus, just bogus roms.

Either way, according to the copyright's website you COULD contact the Nevada district's attorneys office and the U.S. copyrights office. I'm sure they'd investigate for you.

[chimpmeister]

I think in the end, the truth is that Dion and Chris are nothing more than a couple small-tyme idiots who like to stir up outrage in this community.

Do they sell a lot of product? No.

Are they viewed with even the smallest iota of respect by other people in this hobby? No.

Have they taken away substantial sales from SNK/Playmore? No.

Did their Zupapa "AES" sell 500 copies? Or maybe 100? Even 50, or 20? No to all of the above.

These clowns can't really be taken seriously. As much as they enjoy stirring things up, they've got so little impact on this hobby that everyone would do best to just ignore them. See, they're both even too scared to post in the most active Neo Geo related forums on the web . . . a good sign of how little they impact our hobby. They can both sit at home, alone in their basements and play with their collections of bullshit, because 99.999% of the real fans could care less about them . . . and the other .001% includes idiots like Makismo, and we all know how RETARDED he is . . . <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

[Vinnk]

Here's an interesting perspective...

I think that the duo are absolutely vital for the neo community. Wait, don't kill me! Hear me out.

They are Evil. And that's perfect.

What would Superman be without Lex Luthor or Batman without the Joker. Pretty boring.

These goofs are the required foil for the serious gamers. And they do things in such an obvious and goofy way that I can't help but laugh.

Added to that they are no real threat to us. We know very well not to but anything from them. If a newbie buys something from them and gets burnt it's a shame but they will buy from shawn next time, and all future times.

They make fake carts, but in a way we can know they are fake, raising the value of real carts.

They join us all together in our disgust of them. No matter how much we fight between ourselfs we all have that in common. United in the dislike of NGF.

In the end we should thank them... then punch them in the fucking face for those goddamn stamps they put on everything!

..oh. Nevermind.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Carts big enough to club a seal to death with..

[J. Max]

All along the Dipshit Duo has claimed that they are official distributors for SNK-USA. I wonder what they'll say now...It'll be hilarious to hear the OBVIOUS and OUTRIGHT lies that they are going to print...

[Dolphin]

[quote]Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them. Do you really think they have any such evidence?<hr></blockquote>

Given how they've acted in the past (and even now) concerning other matters in this scene, I think they've got just enough stupidity-fueled chutzpah to attempt fronting a legal defense even though they are cognizant of the fact that what they're doing is blatantly wrong in the eyes of the law.

[quote]I think in the end, the truth is that Dion and Chris are nothing more than a couple small-tyme idiots who like to stir up outrage in this community.
Do they sell a lot of product? No.<hr></blockquote>

This is probably one of the best points brought up in this thread thus far. What we're dealing with here is a pitiful fan-based "cottage industry" that, truth be told, probably does a laughable amount of sales. However, through years of idle posturing and hype, many have come to believe otherwise, hence the myth of a "mighty" NGF.

Maybe the fact that the "Big Tymers" aren't really so "big" after all is the true reason why SNK/Playmore or whoever holds the intellectual property rights haven't bothered to get up off their collective asses and make any legal maneuvers. Either way, I'd like to see NGF go down in flames, but the likelihood of that happening is next to nil.

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
<strong>
Maybe the fact that the "Big Tymers" aren't really so "big" after all is the true reason why SNK/Playmore or whoever holds the intellectual property rights haven't bothered to get up off their collective asses and make any legal maneuvers. Either way, I'd like to see NGF go down in flames, but the likelihood of that happening is next to nil.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. Other corporations have cracked down on a lot less (i.e. Using their artwork on fan websites). In this case I really think it's a matter of steering the new SNK USA at the right target. Particularly in the absense of an official SNK-USA for several years, it is important for the new office to smack down any illegitimate heirs to the throne.

The whole reason I said "Courts would come into play only if NGF could bring up enough evidence to dispute the charges, and convince a lawyer to defend them" is for the reason that, even if NGF has deluded itself into thinking its legit (if you lie long enough you sometimes start to believe your own lies), they'd be hard pressed to find an attorney who would believe them in the face of an angry federal trademark holder. Any lawyer would see a doomed case, regardless of what the duo says.

[BonusKun]

[quote]Originally posted by DolphinLord:
<strong>I've always been under the impression that SNK has always know what the duo was up to, but never considered them significant enough to bother swatting down. After all, a legal embroilment requires the consumption of limited resources (namely time and money) of which SNK may or may not have a lot to waste on such affairs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hell Chad Okada certainly knew as well as the Barones. Just the cost of pursing legal action on those 2 buttpluggers was not worth the time it would cost.

That's what Chad's original excuse was. Nowadays I'm wondering if Plamore would actually go into legal proceedings to prosucute the misrepresentation of SNK's products by the irreversable damage that they have done to this hobby...

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by BonusKun:
<strong>

Hell Chad Okada certainly knew as well as the Barones. Just the cost of pursing legal action on those 2 buttpluggers was not worth the time it would cost.

That's what Chad's original excuse was. Nowadays I'm wondering if Plamore would actually go into legal proceedings to prosucute the misrepresentation of SNK's products by the irreversable damage that they have done to this hobby...</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is what I've been trying to think of. The irreversable damage done to ONE paticular company and to a hobby shared by thousands. Once again I'd like to state I'd be willing to stuff some cash in an account for SNK/Playmore to use to stop their illegal actions.

They do not help the community like the Joker or Lex Luther either. Both of those villlans are much smater than Chris and Dion and I have yet to see Zod come down and w00p some ass.

[BonusKun]

[quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
<strong>

This is what I've been trying to think of. The irreversable damage done to ONE paticular company and to a hobby shared by thousands. Once again I'd like to state I'd be willing to stuff some cash in an account for SNK/Playmore to use to stop their illegal actions.

They do not help the community like the Joker or Lex Luther either. Both of those villlans are much smater than Chris and Dion and I have yet to see Zod come down and w00p some ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Genrally I'm just stating the fact that SNKUSA at the time was quite aware of Dion and Chris thus this...

#7 The Irritating Maze

Dion at this time had converted his IM games for NGH with which he claimed he had connections with SNK.

He claimed that SNK USA refused to sell his game for him and had even tried to have SNK of Japan to force them to have them sell his game.
He originally also tried to make SNK USA to give him an official Certificate saying that this was an Official SNK Product.

In an unprecedented move, Alica Barone(The President of SNK USA's Daughter) came down to Dion's club and stated in front of everyone that
SNK had NOT endorsed The IM project and Dion had no such claim to say as much putting Dion in his place.

Dion, being unable to dismiss he claims as a "jealous fan" instead of debating the issue, Banned her from his club for what she did.

The facts are there. It's just getting SNK to do something is what the whole basis of the problem is... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

Of course I should add to this that the game wouldn't work on an NGH system because of the Bios and of course Dion now claims that it wasn't really alicia who spoke to him which of course is him living in that fantasy world again.

Same old shit every day.

Sad but true...

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: BonusKun ]</p>

[Takumaji]

I always thought that the reason why Playmore seems as reluctant as SNK to prosecute the Duo is that they (Playmore) don't expect an imminent loss due to NGF's "products". The two sold (or still sell) some of their fake releases, "corrected" inserts and games with stamped manuals, but if you look at the lineup of NGF releases of the caliber of fake KoF2k US, there's really not much stuff which should give Playmore headaches.

If you check the Duo's website and look into the games for sale, there's a column called "Maker", but only conversions like Ganryu, Zupapa, NitD, Strikers or Shock Troopers (oh, and Fight Fever, woah) are marked with "NGF", and it doesn't need an Einstein brain to smell fake. They have been proven wrong on numerous occasions by loyal SNK fans and SNK itself alike.

I bet if the Duo would fuck around with RotD or KoF2k2, things would be different, since these are new releases which are on sale right now, so a falsificated NGF RotD or KoF2k2 with their URL all over the insert and manual would bring Playmore into action.

Just my 2c.

[BonusKun]

Actually I do have it known as fact that if Dion or Chris tried to fuck around with the MVS market, SNK would have their balls to the wall.

Period..

[EMAGDNIM]

[quote]Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>I bet if the Duo would fuck around with RotD or KoF2k2, things would be different, since these are new releases which are on sale right now, so a falsificated NGF RotD or KoF2k2 with their URL all over the insert and manual would bring Playmore into action.

Just my 2c.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I agree...with newer releases, it would matter to them...(cutting into revenue)...but I also think that they will do SOMETHING (God I hope I'm right) about the whole NGFreaked carts...

[Takumaji]

[quote]Originally posted by EMAGDNIM:
<strong>


I agree...with newer releases, it would matter to them...(cutting into revenue)...but I also think that they will do SOMETHING (God I hope I'm right) about the whole NGFreaked carts...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, let's see. Some ppl here have to understand that Playmore's legal departement won't bite NGF's gay asses for being idiots, wannabe-SNK fans or insert shredders, they will only take action if

a) there's *hard* evidence for ongoing blatant copyright infringements and theft of intellectual property

and

b) there's a considerable loss of money due to actions of NGF mentioned in a).

Most of us would like the two getting burned for stuff like the insert shredding at CGE or the rubber stamping, but that alone would be no good basis for a law suit I guess.

[Mokum]

[quote]They are clearly NOT doing this on our behalf.<hr></blockquote>

Nothing else?

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>

Well, let's see. Some ppl here have to understand that Playmore's legal departement won't bite NGF's gay asses for being idiots, wannabe-SNK fans or insert shredders, they will only take action if

a) there's *hard* evidence for ongoing blatant copyright infringements and theft of intellectual property

and

b) there's a considerable loss of money due to actions of NGF mentioned in a).

Most of us would like the two getting burned for stuff like the insert shredding at CGE or the rubber stamping, but that alone would be no good basis for a law suit I guess.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Your forgetting or not understanding that protecting your and your business' intellictual properties is the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do. This is the type of stuff that happens when a business doesn't take care of it's properties.

Insert shredding and cart stickers are one thing. Re-printing inserts and offering a manufactuer warranty on SNK's behalf is highly illegal. Also acting on another's behalf is also illegal. What if someone signed your paychecks and cashed them on your behalf? I'm also sure there has been a considerable amount of revune lost due to these morons.

[VanillaThunder]

Besides the fact I find this NGF discussion *MOOT* at best, you have to see one VERY obvious thing that will finally end this discussion.


Do they have ROTD, KOF 2002, MS4 or KOF 2k1 inserts redone yet?

I don't know, and I'm assuming this because I haven't heard yet.


No, they don't!

the reason: if they redo the inserts, they are BLATANTLY and obviously treading on Playmore's turf, grounds for a lawsuit.

If they tip-toe in SNK territory, the older titles.... they have at least a foothold to argue that the company is dead and you can alter their product. It's a gray area. They're basically playing it safe by not touching these titles yet. IF AND WHEN playmore would fold, they THEN would do those inserts.

Basically, they're playing with a smaller fire right now and they're small time. Flying under playmore radar for now.

That's why nothing's been done yet.. playmore can gain almost nothing by suing over older properties.. if and WHEN they do the newer inserts, expect something to happen.. until then, don't hold oyur breath. They know playmore IS watching them, they've said as much.

[Tarma]

Playmore already have all the evidence they need...

... and they certainly WILL NOT discuss any legal matters with any external party.

[Takumaji]

[quote]Originally posted by VanillaThunder:
<strong> [...] Do they have ROTD, KOF 2002, MS4 or KOF 2k1 inserts redone yet?

I don't know, and I'm assuming this because I haven't heard yet.


No, they don't!

the reason: if they redo the inserts, they are BLATANTLY and obviously treading on Playmore's turf, grounds for a lawsuit.
[...] </strong><hr></blockquote>

See, gunrock, this is the type of thing I'm talking about. Spot on, Vanilla.

Playmore is MS4, KoF2k1, RotD, KoF2k2, *NOT* the older stuff like KoF2k, Sengoku 2001, Ganryu, Zupapa, etc.pp.

As long as "they" don't "correct" anything of the new Playmore stuff or release badly soldered RotD convs with some of the usual NGF stamps/URLs on them, it's of ZERO relevance for Playmore. They won't get a dime for any of the past releases like KoF2k et al, so their incentive to stop them isn't as big as you might think.

That doesn't mean that I would not understand that stealing IPs from anyone is a criminal act - far from it. As a musician who releases records & CDs on technoid labels like Ray Gun or Indulge Rec (both Hamburg, Germany), I perfectly know what it means to see one of my tracks appearing on labels who haven't signed a head of agreement with my label boss, and to wittness these license pirates making money with my stuff, while I don't even get fucking credits in their fucking booklets, let alone license fees.

And believe me, my label boss and I went to court and fought for our rights, but even in our (comparably simple) case, it took several lawyers, experts/assessors and some months of tedious court sessions to get things straight.

gunrock, I don't want to burst any of your bubbles. If you feel that contacting SNK/Playmore USA and writing about (from our point of view) true but (from Playmore's point of view) hearsay issues would the best approach, by all means go for it. I wouldn't be surprised if Playmore eventually would stand up against the Duo, but this will take a while. Give them time.

[VanillaThunder]

I just wanted to say HI to Dion, who's evidently reading this thread as we speak. WHY DON'T YA POST HERE BUDDY? CAUSE YOU'RE A PUSSY.

Thanks, asswipe.

I read the DHP archives just now and Dion referenced something I said earlier in this thread. You guys should check out the archive, it's QUITE an interesting read. Unfortunately that idiot spams it up like crazy. It's definitely losing it's charm and aura as very little Neo is talked about anymore because of the Assclowns. I feel bad for the subscribers who have to get that shit EVERY GODDAMN DAY!


What a douchebag.

[Deuce]

I seem to be the only one who knows how to deal with Dion... ie. ignore him. He's an attention hound, and tuning him out is the best solution.

Those who keep responding to him are just as guilty of perpetuating all the BS on that list as Dion is. Dion may be a troll by many standards, but he's a damn good one... people just can't leave well enough alone.

-Deuce

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by VanillaThunder:
<strong>the reason: if they redo the inserts, they are BLATANTLY and obviously treading on Playmore's turf, grounds for a lawsuit.

If they tip-toe in SNK territory, the older titles.... they have at least a foothold to argue that the company is dead and you can alter their product. It's a gray area.</strong><hr></blockquote>


False. Copyrights are enforceable for the duration that they exist. You cannot jack a copyright just because a company goes out of business.

Explanation (Cursory): If a company goes out of business/bankrupt/etc, one of the first things they will do is see if they can liquidate anything and everything -particularly the rights to intellectual property like games/characters/etc. (remember when pets.com sold the sock-puppet?). These things still have value, and thus still have owners. SNK Neo Geo/Playmore own the copyrights to the old SNK games and can enforce anything infringing upon them.

Oh, and who co-owns some of these rights? (it's not always a purely-SNK thing)
Data-East,
Sunsoft,
and the other 3rd parties that have been booted could also file suit.

So the old games are just as enforceable as the new ones, and there is in fact someone who can do it. Of course, they are more likely to protect new games, or games that they are still profiting on (via MVS, AES, or even ports).

[VanillaThunder]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>


False. Copyrights are enforceable for the duration that they exist. You cannot jack a copyright just because a company goes out of business.

Explanation (Cursory): If a company goes out of business/bankrupt/etc, one of the first things they will do is see if they can liquidate anything and everything -particularly the rights to intellectual property like games/characters/etc. (remember when pets.com sold the sock-puppet?). These things still have value, and thus still have owners. SNK Neo Geo/Playmore own the copyrights to the old SNK games and can enforce anything infringing upon them.

Oh, and who co-owns some of these rights? (it's not always a purely-SNK thing)
Data-East,
Sunsoft,
and the other 3rd parties that have been booted could also file suit.

So the old games are just as enforceable as the new ones, and there is in fact someone who can do it. Of course, they are more likely to protect new games, or games that they are still profiting on (via MVS, AES, or even ports).</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know what you're saying. My point was that if they play around with older crap, they have a better chance of not getting bothered due to the money they could lose on them (playmore)is far less than a new release.

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by VanillaThunder:
<strong>

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I know what you're saying. My point was that if they play around with older crap, they have a better chance of not getting bothered due to the money they could lose on them (playmore)is far less than a new release.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You and Bobak make very valid points. Just because a company went bankrupt doesn't mean that they lose the copyrights to all of their previously released work. However, all of the SNK titles that NGF (HI DION!) are trying to replicate and reproduce are things that Playmore sees as no economical gain or value. Unless they planned to redistribute, manufacture, and resell games like NITD, Zupapa, etc... then they could careless what they do.

However, if they DID focus on their new titles, I would be certain that Playmore would put their asses in a sling. Case in point... I just heard a story from a reliable source regarding someone trying to push an illegal remix to a very recent song from a superstar artist, after being denied the permission to do so. He went on to distribute the mix on CD-R to key players in the industry, putting his name and his production company all over it in an attempt to force the company to "accept" the mix if enough people start playing it. Unfortunately for this guy, he's about to get slapped for a multi-million dollar lawsuit from the label, since they now feel that his actions made the entire project look unprofessional, AND that it will hurt sales.

Trust me... if NGF dared to mass produce and release a "hack job" of ROTD, KOF 2002 or the upcoming Power Instinct title like they did for Zupapa and NITD, they would be obliterated.

[gunrock46]

Here's a link direct from the ass' mouth for all you people that seem to be thinking Playmore isn't concerned or doesn't care about older titles and is probably only concerned with newer titles. What will be said when these idiots start putting out these:

<a href="http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0920.html" target="_blank">http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0920.html</a>

p.s. Why does this idiot always talk about how much money he has and what kind of personal items he pocesses? What the hell does this guy do in real life? Do you honestly think he has the cash to afford a lawyer to go up against a U.S. copyright attorney?

[gunrock46]

Also it's nice to see Shawn layin down some smack too.

Link:

<a href="http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0922.html" target="_blank">http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0922.html</a>

LOL! this is funny ascii too.
<a href="http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0933.html" target="_blank">http://lists.dhp.com/neogeo/2002/Oct/0933.html</a>

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: gunrock46 ]</p>

[snkneogeousaCTH]

I hope the dynamic duo gets sued, and then NAILED in court. Maybe then they'd have to sell their "rolex watches and blue porsches".

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
<strong>Why does this idiot always talk about how much money he has and what kind of personal items he pocesses? What the hell does this guy do in real life? Do you honestly think he has the cash to afford a lawyer to go up against a U.S. copyright attorney?</strong><hr></blockquote>

He does this as a deterrment from the issue. Members on the DHP list are blitzed with this unnecessary self glorification on a regular basis. He talks on the mailing list for he knows that he would be bashed to hell if he spoke up here. Unfortunately, the person running the list hasn't felt it was necessary for Dion to be banned from the DHP list, despite all of his past and present wrongdoings, and his constant spamming of the list.

Trust me... Dion doesn't have the GUTS to mass produce a new game like ROTD or KOF 2002. Just like he doesn't have the GUTS to come on this very forum and defend himself.

[m_bish0p]

has anyone considered 'accidentally' sending an 'official NGF KOF 200x' back to SNK for refurbishing?

I mean, I'm sure that SNK has some customer support system, so just play dumb and send them an NGF release with a complaint that it doesn't work right. All those stickers and stamps will tell where it's from.

A little underhanded, but from the sounds of the reply E-mail, I'd say SNK doesn't know what's going on.

hell, maybe you'll even get a real release version of the game back!

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: m_bish0p ]</p>

[thundr51]

[quote]Originally posted by VinylBoy:
<strong>

He does this as a deterrment from the issue. Members on the DHP list are blitzed with this unnecessary self glorification on a regular basis. &lt;snip&gt; Unfortunately, the person running the list hasn't felt it was necessary for Dion to be banned from the DHP list, despite all of his past and present wrongdoings, and his constant spamming of the list.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, when I was on the list Dion did get banned a while back, but he tried to make it look like he decided to leave on his own or something like that.
I think Deuce said it best, just tune him out. Pretend he's a pot of boiling water. After a while he'll be nothing at all.

[EMAGDNIM]

[quote]Originally posted by m_bish0p:
<strong>has anyone considered 'accidentally' sending an 'official NGF KOF 200x' back to SNK for refurbishing?

I mean, I'm sure that SNK has some customer support system, so just play dumb and send them an NGF release with a complaint that it doesn't work right. All those stickers and stamps will tell where it's from.

A little underhanded, but from the sounds of the reply E-mail, I'd say SNK doesn't know what's going on.

hell, maybe you'll even get a real release version of the game back!

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: m_bish0p ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

HAHA!!! <img src="graemlins/eek2.gif" border="0" alt="[Eek 2]" /> that would be funny <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> ...but it wouldn't really do anything... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> ...SNK will catch up to NGF...eventually...(I hope)

[gunrock46]

I just contacted the U.S. copyrights office to ask them about this. More info from them as this develops. It's not just because Chris and Dion are retards it's because they are openly defying copyrights held by SNK, and we're now in a time when the U.S. government and the U.S. postal service is cracking down on people that do this sort of business. I personally don't see how this is different than all the people selling boot movies, tapes and cd's on the streets.

Also to anyone who has pruchased something from them that was in direct violation of SNK's copyrights. You (the buyer) could file a mail fraud complaint at <a href="http://www.usps.com" target="_blank">www.usps.com</a> and see what they say about it. Just a suggestion.

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
<strong>I just contacted the U.S. copyrights office to ask them about this. More info from them as this develops.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Way to take the initiative!

[Kyo 2000]

NOTHING is going to happen and we ALL know it.

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by thundr51:
<strong>

Actually, when I was on the list Dion did get banned a while back, but he tried to make it look like he decided to leave on his own or something like that.
I think Deuce said it best, just tune him out. Pretend he's a pot of boiling water. After a while he'll be nothing at all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Around here it's MUCH easier than on the DHP list... especially since the administrator there does nothing against the flame wars. I've been on the mailing list for many years, and I never actually seen Dion or Chris banned from it. In fact, i think only 2 or 3 people have ever been banned from the list that I can think of.

[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]</p>

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by Kyo 2000:
<strong>NOTHING is going to happen and we ALL know it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's a shit attitude like that which won't help things get accomplished. Think happy thoughts. What's the worst thing the copyright office could say? "We'll look into this for you,"

[Judge Dredd]

A CERTIAN MINDLESS LITTLE BOY JUST POSTED HARD CORE PORN IN THIS THREAD, THINKING HIMSELF "l334" (ALL BECAUSE gunrock46 MADE A POINT THAT PISSED HIM OFF)

- OFFENDING MATERIALS DELETED
- OFFENDING PARTY TO BE COMPLETELY BANNED

THAT IS ALL.
- JUDGE DREDD

[2Heed]

[quote]Originally posted by Kyo 2000:
<strong>NOTHING is going to happen and we ALL know it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah. You (actually) wish.

Looks like someone finally put you in your place! From: his head in his ass. Priceless! *bows to whoever thought that one up*

[Vinnk]

Hmm... maybe playmore WILL take a stand on their coypwrites. Has anyone read this(it's kinda long). Sounds pretty aggressive. What do you think:

October 28, 2002
PLAYMORE CORPORATION

Actions against Aruze Corporation by PLAYMORE

CORPORATION

1.
Action for damages (Complaint accepted by the Court as of February 28, 2002)


Summary of Action
:
"Trademark and copyright infringement by Aruze's


pachinko slot machine, "Crazy Racer R"

PLAYMORE filed a trademark and copyright action for damages in Osaka District Court alleging that Aruze was infringing upon PLAYMORE's trademark and copyright (literary work) concerning "Crazy Racer" of PLAYMORE by using such trademark and copyright (literary work) for Aruze's pachinko slot machine, "Crazy Racer R", and continuing the sale of the same, without obtaining any license or permission from PLAYMORE.


Damages claimed
:
120,000,000 Japanese Yen


Note
:
PLAYMORE also filed a criminal action in the Tokyo

Metropolitan Police Dept. alleging Aruze was infringing upon PLAYMORE's trademark. (Complaint accepted by the TMPD as of July 3, 2002)

2.
Action for Damages (Complaint accepted by the Court as of March 15, 2002)


Summary of Action
:
"Copyright infringement by Aruze's pachinko slot


machine, "Bakucho"

PLAYMORE filed a copyright action for damages in Osaka District Court alleging that Aruze was infringing upon PLAYMORE's copyrights (literary woks) concerning "IRE- GUI" and "Bakucho" of PLAYMORE by using such copyrights (literary woks) for Aruze's pachinko slot machine, "Bakucho R", and continuing the sale of the same, without obtaining any license or permission from PLAYMORE.


Damages claimed
:
2,400,000,000 Japanese Yen

3.
Action for damages and judicial injunction (Complaint accepted by the Court as of


April 9, 2002)


Summary of Action
:
"Copyright infringement by Aruze's software for

PlayStation 2, for "Aruze Kingdom 6 (Crazy Racer)"

PLAYMORE filed a copyright action for damages and injunctive relief to prevent the sale of "Aruze Kingdom 6" in Osaka District Court alleging that Aruze was knowingly infringing upon PLAYMORE's trademark and copyright (literary work) concerning "Crazy Racer" of PLAYMORE by using such trademark and copyright (literary work) for Aruze's software for PlayStation 2, "Aruze Kingdom 6", and continuing the sale of said software, without obtaining any license or permission from PLAYMORE.


Damages claimed
:
989,940,000 Japanese Yen

4.
Action for damages and judicial injunction (Complaint accepted by the Court as of


August 23, 2002)


Summary of Action
:
"Copyright infringement by Aruze's software for

PlayStation 2, "Aruze Kingdom 7 (Bakucho)"

PLAYMORE filed a copyright action for damages and injunctive relief to prevent the sale of "Aruze Kingdom 7" in Osaka District Court alleging that Aruze and Nihon Amusement Broadcasting Co. were knowingly infringing upon PLAYMORE's copyright (literary work) concerning "IRE-GUI" and "Bakucho" of PLAYMORE by using such copyright (literary work) for its software for PlayStation 2, "Aruze Kingdom 7", and continuing the sale of said software, without obtaining any license or permission from PLAYMORE.
It should be pointed out that Aruze totally disregarded the action for damages of the item 2 above and knowingly infringed again PLAYMORE's copyright in the same manner. Therefore, PLAYMORE has claimed damages to Aruze amounting to the total profit accrued to Aruze in this connection for the purpose of preventing the malicious act performed by Aruze. Aruze continued to make the unauthorized use of the software of "Bakucho" owned by PLAYMORE for its software for PlayStation 2 and market the same shamelessly through its affiliate company named Nihon Amusement Broadcasting Co.


Damages claimed
:
314,500,000 Japanese Yen

5.
Action for damages (Complaint accepted by the Court as of October 28, 2002)


Summary of Action
:
"Copyright infringement by Aruze's pachinko slot


machine, "IRE-GUI"

PLAYMORE filed a copyright action for damages in Osaka District Court alleging that Aruze was infringing upon PLAYMORE's copyright (literary work) concerning "IRE- GUI" owned by PLAYMORE by using such copyright (literary work) for its pachinko slot machine ,"IRE-GUI", and continuing the sale of the same, without obtaining any license or permission from PLAYMORE.
It should also be pointed out that Aruze continued to sell its "IRE-GUI" showing the inscription "(c)SNK 2001" expressly, that was the main cause of action of the above item 2, during the course of said action. Furthermore, Aruze continued to use the well-known characters of PLAYMORE among fans of fighting games such as "Terry Bogard" and "Mai Shiranui" appeared in "Fatal Fury" series and "The King of Fighters" series as premium characters. It being so, the infringement of PLAYMORE's rights by Aruze was quite clear so that PLAYMORE claimed damages to Aruze amounting to the total profit accrued to Aruze in this connection for the purpose of preventing the malicious act performed by Aruze, together with the action of the above item4.


Damages claimed
:
2,400,000,000 Japanese Yen

*
On the day of declaration of bankruptcy of SNK, PLAYMORE was assigned by the

receiver all the intellectual properties rights of SNK. Aruze had also joined the bid for the intellectual properties rights of SNK, but PLAYMORE had become a successful bidder. Therefore, it is apparent that Aruze must have known that general assignment of SNK's intellectual properties rights including the above-mentioned trademark and copyrights was made to PLAYMORE. It is also clear that Aruze has obtained excessive profit by continuing infringement of PLAYMORE's rights. In this connection the aggregate of damages claimed under five actions as above amounts to 6,224,440,000 Japanese yen.

[Megatron X]

**Wonders what else did Playmore sue Aruze for** :confused: <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" />

[EMAGDNIM]

[quote]Originally posted by Megatron X:
<strong>**Wonders what else did Playmore sue Aruze for** :confused: <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Your telling me... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> ...whoa....waht a list...

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>Hmm... maybe playmore WILL take a stand on their coypwrites. Has anyone read this(it's kinda long). Sounds pretty aggressive. What do you think:
[cases omitted]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I glanced over it, interesting. It's a pretty large b2b lawsuit. Still, if you could find an instant of smaller-time enforcement that would be even better.

It might be harder since there are so many piraters overseas -I think they take small-time stuff a lot more serious in the US.

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>On the day of declaration of bankruptcy of SNK, PLAYMORE was assigned by the

receiver all the intellectual properties rights of SNK. Aruze had also joined the bid for the intellectual properties rights of SNK, but PLAYMORE had become a successful bidder. Therefore, it is apparent that Aruze must have known that general assignment of SNK's intellectual properties rights including the above-mentioned trademark and copyrights was made to PLAYMORE. It is also clear that Aruze has obtained excessive profit by continuing infringement of PLAYMORE's rights. In this connection the aggregate of damages claimed under five actions as above amounts to 6,224,440,000 Japanese yen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the detailed information. Playmore is basically suing Aruze for a sum equivilent to $51 million dollars.

6,224,440,000 Yen = 50,935,651.66 USD

Whoa! :eek:
I definitely want to see where this goes next...

[gunrock46]

I certainly hope Playmore ends the lawsuit successfully and then starts to go after Neo Geo COUNTERFITTERS.

[XSkater2099]

For some reason i find it hard to beleive that they are selling official English copies on kizuna Encouter for $899.

Fuck those two cock rocking fuck faces, i hope they get the faces broken open like they break open AES/MVS carts.

[david]

I the Asian Punisher will destroy those two and rid the world of these kind of people. Look Out Bitches cause your freak ass is going down! <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

[EMAGDNIM]

[quote]Originally posted by XSkater2099:
<strong>For some reason i find it hard to beleive that they are selling official English copies on kizuna Encouter for $899.

Fuck those two cock rocking fuck faces, i hope they get the faces broken open like they break open AES/MVS carts.</strong><hr></blockquote>

WORD!!! more power to ya :D

[Vinnk]

Wow, that's the frist time I posted something that got a response. Score!

---------------------------------------------
-Vinnk the somewhat useful

[Xander Crews]

http://www.imagemagician.org/images/edwardspics/freaks2.jpg

hmm...

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ed ]</p>

[Dhalsim]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>Here's an interesting perspective...

I think that the duo are absolutely vital for the neo community. Wait, don't kill me! Hear me out.

They are Evil. And that's perfect.

What would Superman be without Lex Luthor or Batman without the Joker. Pretty boring.

These goofs are the required foil for the serious gamers. And they do things in such an obvious and goofy way that I can't help but laugh.

Added to that they are no real threat to us. We know very well not to but anything from them. If a newbie buys something from them and gets burnt it's a shame but they will buy from shawn next time, and all future times.

They make fake carts, but in a way we can know they are fake, raising the value of real carts.

They join us all together in our disgust of them. No matter how much we fight between ourselfs we all have that in common. United in the dislike of NGF.

In the end we should thank them... then punch them in the fucking face for those goddamn stamps they put on everything!

..oh. Nevermind.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Carts big enough to club a seal to death with..</strong><hr></blockquote>

BS Are u one of them or u read a lot of comics

:rolleyes:

[Vinnk]

Neither actually, just a guy who thinks destroying carts/inserts/copywrite laws is horrible, but who Also thinks that they are the perfect villian for the Neo Scene. They are really like cartoon charactors. It's almost hard to belive that they are real. They are definatly the lowest of the low when it comes to their game selling practices, but as someone to get pissed off at rather than getting pissed off at each other they fit the bill. I'm too new to the Neo Scene to have ever been ripped off by them (I found ths site first) but I'm sure for those of you who got screwed they arn't as funny to you.

Oh, for those interested I'm Vinnk. My location says Nagasaki, Japan because I was going to school there when I registered and I will be moving back there next year to teach English, so I never changed it. Been a neo fan only since about early 1999 when I bought my NGPC. Wanted to play the cart games but couldn't and still can't afford the system. Picked up a NGCD in Osaka and I have about 40 games for it. I own 4 AES carts, but no cart system. I was able to get the carts cheap in Japan and I figure I will eventually buy one. I discovered this site while looking for CD games. Only got the guts to post a few weeks ago (it's been a mixed bag, since I posted something already known). I'm probably one of Noe-Geos biggest advocates who dosn't actually own one. umm.. that's about it.

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>Neither actually, just a guy who thinks destroying carts/inserts/copywrite laws is horrible, but who Also thinks that they are the perfect villian for the Neo Scene. They are really like cartoon charactors. It's almost hard to belive that they are real. They are definatly the lowest of the low when it comes to their game selling practices, but as someone to get pissed off at rather than getting pissed off at each other they fit the bill. I'm too new to the Neo Scene to have ever been ripped off by them (I found ths site first) but I'm sure for those of you who got screwed they arn't as funny to you.

Oh, for those interested I'm Vinnk. My location says Nagasaki, Japan because I was going to school there when I registered and I will be moving back there next year to teach English, so I never changed it. Been a neo fan only since about early 1999 when I bought my NGPC. Wanted to play the cart games but couldn't and still can't afford the system. Picked up a NGCD in Osaka and I have about 40 games for it. I own 4 AES carts, but no cart system. I was able to get the carts cheap in Japan and I figure I will eventually buy one. I discovered this site while looking for CD games. Only got the guts to post a few weeks ago (it's been a mixed bag, since I posted something already known). I'm probably one of Noe-Geos biggest advocates who dosn't actually own one. umm.. that's about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Um, "welcome" (although it's kinda late for that) ;)

Let's try and keep this thread on topic.

(that's in no way meant to just pick on Vinnk, there a number of posts that are deviating from what's been a particularly good thread)

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>

Um, "welcome" (although it's kinda late for that) ;)

Let's try and keep this thread on topic.

(that's in no way meant to just pick on Vinnk, there a number of posts that are deviating from what's been a particularly good thread)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Props to that Bobak. Keep this thread spam and bullshit free. No need to post pics of 2 asian idiots here.

Now, ironically I have 2 friends whos uncles are all copyright, trademark and patent attorneys. Sent some emails to them to see what they think. Damn that Dion and Chris get real freaky (even more than usual) when presented with OVERWHELMING facts about crimes they are commiting i.e.: mail fraud, credit card fraud, copyright, trademark and patent ingringement. Still in light of all this overwhelming evidence they do nothing but call me a "punk ass bitch" and "I have no proof". Has anyone else directly had bad business dealing from them? Email me and I'll collect the information I'm forwarding to proper people.

For anyone else that cares I read on the USPS website that they'll investigate mail fraud and copyright violations. I know they like to go after cd, ebay, tape and dvd counterfitters so why not these guys. They have presented no proof. More info as I get it.

[Vinnk]

Here's the thing. i got that info right off playmores website. In English! Who other than us or someone doing something illeagle do you think will read and/or care about this. Could it be a subtle warning? I meant they even make the point about talking about their rights to use the charactors from previous SNK games. I can't think of another reason they'd post it. Maybe for investers to know how much money might be coming their way, still investors wouldn't need to go to playmores site to get that info. Seems deliciously intentional. Any thoughts?

------------------------------------------------------------
"The Red Green movie is actually very good"

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>Here's the thing. i got that info right off playmores website. In English! Who other than us or someone doing something illeagle do you think will read and/or care about this. Could it be a subtle warning? I meant they even make the point about talking about their rights to use the charactors from previous SNK games. I can't think of another reason they'd post it. Maybe for investers to know how much money might be coming their way, still investors wouldn't need to go to playmores site to get that info. Seems deliciously intentional. Any thoughts?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think they may be aiming that information at any potential investors or news sources that want to know the company is (a) still vigorous, (b) potentially in for a large settlement.

You're right, people could find that info elsewhere -but why not save them the problem of having to hunt it down?

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by Vinnk:
<strong>Here's the thing. i got that info right off playmores website. In English! Who other than us or someone doing something illeagle do you think will read and/or care about this. Could it be a subtle warning? I meant they even make the point about talking about their rights to use the charactors from previous SNK games. I can't think of another reason they'd post it. Maybe for investers to know how much money might be coming their way, still investors wouldn't need to go to playmores site to get that info. Seems deliciously intentional. Any thoughts?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think they may be aiming that information at any potential investors or news sources that want to know the company is (a) still vigorous, (b) potentially in for a large settlement.

You're right, people could find that info elsewhere -but why not save them the problem of having to hunt it down?

[rugal2000]

Yeah its pretty obvious that dion and Chris are living out their WWE fantasies, and they see themselves as ,the outsiders, or New world order,degeneration X...name any Wrestling clique and it seems they have adopted a simaler attitude and style.

With all the swaggering/posturing and Dions talk of rolex watches,the "big tymers" lifestyle, and black porsches, its just the kind of thing Shawn Michaels or the Million Dollar man Ted Dibiase used to say. Hell, didnt Dion used to call everyone "nickle and dime peons" at one time!??

[EMAGDNIM]

I donno...ever since I've been hearing about these guys and what they do, all I know is from the start is that they always had this larger then life attitude... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[rugal2000]

The truth is, I dont think its an act, maybe Dion and his pals are the real inspiration for people like Shawn Michaels, Big Daddy Cool Diesel, etc.

I mean its not like he's a fake...y'know like some geek like Mr KOOL pretending to be something he's not on the internet....the guy lives in Vegas, I heard his wife was in playboy.

How many "nice" people do you know out of Vegas???
And if his wife really was a porn star...then thats just the kind of woman attracted to these types.

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]</p>

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by EMAGDNIM:
<strong>I donno...ever since I've been hearing about these guys and what they do, all I know is from the start is that they always had this larger then life attitude... <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

No worries. I'm sending emails to all sorts of people to try and get them and their illegal attitudes stopped.

On a side note. Any lawyer here know if threatening to beat somebody up or kill them over the web has any legal bearing in the real world?????

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
The truth is, I dont think its an act, maybe Dion and his pals are the real inspiration for people like Shawn Michaels, Big Daddy Cool Diesel, etc.<hr></blockquote>

And these people are ALL playing a character. They don't act like this in REAL life. The WWE is not real life. Back when I was a kid who did go to live wrestling shows at the Boston Garden, I had a chance to meet these people in person and none of them lived exactly like their characters.

[quote]I mean its not like he's a fake...y'know like some geek like Mr KOOL pretending to be something he's not on the internet....the guy lives in Vegas, I heard his wife was in playboy.<hr></blockquote>

That has no bearing on whether or not someone is an asshole. Graphical location, nor the fact that you're married to a good looking woman are not means to think that you're better than everyone else.

[quote]How many "nice" people do you know out of Vegas???<hr></blockquote>

PLENTY... should I make a list?

[quote]And if his wife really was a porn star...then thats just the kind of woman attracted to these types.<hr></blockquote>

Again... that's no excuse for someone to be an asshole. End of story. Stop trying to make excuses for him (which, BTW, I KNOW is reading this as I type this).

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]</p>

[rugal2000]

Vinylboy youve completely missed the point!!

What is it with NGF , unless you make threats about how they are the antichrist, all of a sudden you get accused of "making excuses" for them.

BTW I said

"I dont think its an act, maybe Dion and his pals are the real inspiration for people like Shawn Michaels, Big Daddy Cool Diesel, etc."

If youre the wrestling fan U profess to be, youll understand I said Dion was the real life inspiration for Shawn michaels and Big daddy cool diesel,.....Shawn michaels and BDK diesel are registered WWE characters not real people.....so I wasnt calling the guys who play them Shawn Podunk and Kevin Nash, badpeople, so What are you on about???? The UK had the worlds 1st "behind the scenes " wrestling magazine back in the early 90's long b4 the usa had an equivalent. I know for example the struggle Steve Austin had getting into the wresling business in the late 80s, I know his USWA days when he existed on potatoes and Tuna and used to sleep in his car between driving to shows.He actually used to bake the potatoes in his car engine cos he had nothin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origionally posted by Rugal 2000: I mean its not like he's a fake...y'know like some geek like Mr KOOL pretending to be something he's not on the internet....the guy lives in Vegas, I heard his wife was in playboy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Replied by Vinylboy:
That has no bearing on whether or not someone is an asshole. Graphical location, nor the fact that you're married to a good looking woman are not means to think that you're better than everyone else.


Vinylboy.....my point was Dion really lives in Vegas,the photographs are really him,.....I only said that, cos some people have insinuated that Dion is really a pencil necked 35 year old geek living in Wisconsin with his parents,and that the "dion Dakis" "big Tymer" persona is a fake....So I cant make sense of your reply, as its got nothing to do with what i said in the 1st place!!!

As for the Vegas jibe, It was a lighthearted comment ,buddy.I was simply stating Vegas isnt exactly the Bible belt is it???? Id say it positively has a higher quotient of sleazy individuals than most places.No offence meant!

[gunrock46]

Well I guess this post is now completely off track now. I'll start another post when I get replies from all the people I've contacted about their neo piracy.

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
<strong>On a side note. Any lawyer here know if threatening to beat somebody up or kill them over the web has any legal bearing in the real world?????</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not a lawyer (yet), but I've done research in that area and it usually only works if the threatened person feels imminent harm -that is you actually think the other person is going to go out of their way to come and get you.

This is measure off of the standard of what a Reasonably Prudent Person would think in the exact same situation.

You could go for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, but that rarely works unless you have some kind of physical reaction (you start puking, loosing weight, insomnia -something that is long term and medically provable).

These are a few of your options. It's tricky to get it done, but it has been done before. In fact, I believe Biomotor has had someone thrown in the slammer before based on email evidence (or was it a phone call?). In that situation, it boiled down to an imminent physical threat.

Does that help?

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</p>

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>

In fact, I believe Biomotor has had someone thrown in the slammer before based on email evidence (or was it a phone call?). In that situation, it boiled down to an imminent physical threat.

Does that help?

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd love to hear Biomotor's story on what happened. Wanna share Bio???

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
What is it with NGF , unless you make threats about how they are the antichrist, all of a sudden you get accused of "making excuses" for them.<hr></blockquote>

People who have been around the Neo scene for a long time (like me) know better. We have seen the guys behind NGF do all sorts of nasty, shifty, questionable, and shady things to people for no reason whatsoever. People like us, and the more recent veterans that have been screwed by them over the last one or two years are doing nothing more than warning newbies about their bad practices in hopes that we can eliminate the riff raff.

If someone with any level of credibility in this scene was to actually support NGF, then some people would start to sing a different tune. Instead, you get total strangers (or imaginary ones) pretending to be "satisfied customers". This doesn't help them in redeeming themselves over the years of fucking up.

That's why people speak of NGF as the "anti-christ"... that's ALSO why people who blindly support him (or got lucky on one transaction) are usually flamed. For EVERYONE that deals with NGF will eventually get screwed. It happens everytime, and quite frankly I get sick and tired of hearing another story about it.

[quote]If youre the wrestling fan U profess to be,<hr></blockquote>

Well, like I said before... this was a LONG time ago. Back when WCW was still in business, when George "The Animal" Steele was chasing Elizabeth, when the WWE didn't "Get the F Out", when The Ultimate Warrior was still known as The Dingo Warrior back on WCCW, and when the Fleet Center was still the Boston Garden. A LONG time ago... :D

[quote]youll understand I said Dion was the real life inspiration for Shawn michaels and Big daddy cool diesel,.....<hr></blockquote>

Doubt it... even back when I watched professional wrestling every week, you still had people whose characters were "larger than life". Or did you forget about people like "Classie" Freddie Blassie, Ric Flair (before the WWF), or even Jesse "The Body" Ventura?

If anything, Dion mirrors his lifestyle on others. Why else would he name his imaginary company after an already established Japanese Magazine after they folded, and adopt the term "big tymer" after a rap group named themselves the same thing?

He's an imitator... not an innovator.

[quote]Vinylboy.....my point was Dion really lives in Vegas,the photographs are really him,.....I only said that, cos some people have insinuated that Dion is really a pencil necked 35 year old geek living in Wisconsin with his parents,and that the "dion Dakis" "big Tymer" persona is a fake....So I cant make sense of your reply, as its got nothing to do with what i said in the 1st place!!!<hr></blockquote>

I never assumed that... you can tell by the photos he does post that he does try to "live the life". However, coming from a person that have seen many people "fake the funk" many of times with photos and such, I know that Dion isn't "livin' la vida loca". Anyone can take a few pictures with friends in front of an expensive car or with two really cute girls with large breasts and pretend that they're hanging with them... or even take a photo with a star and pretend that he's their best friend. I'm IN the music business and see that stuff everyday! And those that try too hard to prove their own "greatness" usually don't have a life worth bragging about in the first place.

There's a saying I was told a LONG time ago... "those that truly have, don't need to show it". Those who really ARE "living the life" want to be treated like a normal human being like anyone else... they don't try to force their "bling bling" in people's faces in an attempt to impress them. That's exactly what Dion tries to do with his pictures of cars, loose women, friends, etc...

Never have I seen someone try so hard to prove how "great" he is. And if he really was that important, he wouldn't have to blitz us with all of this irrelevant BS.

[quote]As for the Vegas jibe, It was a lighthearted comment ,buddy.I was simply stating Vegas isnt exactly the Bible belt is it???? Id say it positively has a higher quotient of sleazy individuals than most places.No offence meant!<hr></blockquote>

No offense taken... but take it from me. New York can be just as seedy as Vegas. :)

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]</p>

[rugal2000]

Origionally posted by Vinylboy:
"People who have been around the Neo scene for a long time (like me) know better. We have seen the guys behind NGF do all sorts of nasty, shifty, questionable, and shady things to people for no reason whatsoever. People like us, and the more recent veterans that have been screwed by them over the last one or two years are doing nothing more than warning newbies about their bad practices in hopes that we can eliminate the riff raff."

Ive been here a long time too (member 82) and I was at Neo alec/Under the Moon a long time before then.

what really pisses me off about all this NGF antichrist, veteran talk, is, why doesnt anyone say anything about someone far far worse....DREAMH20!!! Why isnt this guy ever mentioned???

He ripped off my mates mario and buster of 1000's of dollars of stuff, and then to top it off, is abusive and mocking to them.!!!!He has consistently taken every step to avoid paying any of those guys or the 15 others he scammed. You cant telephone him,he has blocks put on, and he really is a completely vindictive and arrogant shithead.The guy got 17 negatives in 1 month on ebay....and is now using a fake ebay account to peddle more scams to unsuspecting members.

newbies know that people like Shawn and Laurent are trustworthy sellers, people know about NGF, if you people want to "save the newbies from bad people " tell them about dreamh20 and his wife!!

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]</p>

[gunrock46]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
<strong>Origionally posted by Vinylboy:
"People who have been around the Neo scene for a long time (like me) know better. We have seen the guys behind NGF do all sorts of nasty, shifty, questionable, and shady things to people for no reason whatsoever. People like us, and the more recent veterans that have been screwed by them over the last one or two years are doing nothing more than warning newbies about their bad practices in hopes that we can eliminate the riff raff."

Ive been here a long time too (member 82) and I was at Neo alec/Under the Moon a long time before then.

what really suprises me about all this NGF antichrist, veteran talk, is, why doesnt anyone say anything about someone far far worse....DREAMH20!!! Why isnt this guy ever mentioned???

He ripped off my mates mario and buster of 1000's of dollars of stuff, and then to top it off, is abusive and mocking to them.!!!!He has consistently taken every step to avoid paying any of those guys or the 15 others he scammed. You cant telephone him,he has blocks put on, and he really is a completely vindictive and arrogant shithead.The guy got 17 negatives in 1 month on ebay....and is now using a fake ebay account to peddle more scams to unsuspecting members.

NGF is the past, newbies know that people like Big bear, Shawn and Laurent are trustworthy sellers, people know about NGF and all the stories, if you people want to "save the newbies from bad people " tell them about dreamh20 and his wife!!

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: rugal2000 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd love to have some info on the dream20 guy. Send me an email please.

[rugal2000]

Hey gunrock,
There was a huge thread about this by BUster Broon, Ill try and get a date but it shouldnt be too difficult to find, it was sometime in the last 2 months.

Dreamh20 is better known as Tim Tews, a real sleazy piece of shit.

He and his wife used to take the high ground on everything, but eventually the sham collapsed and the guy broke the record for most negs in a month at ebay!

People still defend this guy saying he just had money problems, but that is utter bullshit.I know this guy up close and personal....and trust me he makes Dion look like a rank amateur!!

Ill see what I can dig up and get back tommorow.

BTW Vinyl boy I agree with everything U said, and I wasnt trying to say U arent a wrestling fan

[Tarma]

All Playmore are interested in is physical evidence

If you want to go on some sort of crusade against NGF you are going to have to procure any piece of neo geo related items (carts, conversions, inserts etc.) and send them to Playmore.

They're not interested in you telling them that NGF is breaking the law; they're only interested in you proving that they're breaking the law.

Trust me.

I know all about this.

And I'm a lawyer.

[VinylBoy]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
<strong>Ive been here a long time too (member 82) and I was at Neo alec/Under the Moon a long time before then.

what really suprises me about all this NGF antichrist, veteran talk, is, why doesnt anyone say anything about someone far far worse....DREAMH20!!! Why isnt this guy ever mentioned???

He ripped off my mates mario and buster of 1000's of dollars of stuff, and then to top it off, is abusive and mocking to them.!!!!He has consistently taken every step to avoid paying any of those guys or the 15 others he scammed. You cant telephone him,he has blocks put on, and he really is a completely vindictive and arrogant shithead.The guy got 17 negatives in 1 month on ebay....and is now using a fake ebay account to peddle more scams to unsuspecting members.

NGF is the past, newbies know that people like Big bear, Shawn and Laurent are trustworthy sellers, people know about NGF and all the stories, if you people want to "save the newbies from bad people " tell them about dreamh20 and his wife!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a good point... I vaguely remember this guy. Again, I never dealt with him personally, and if I recall most of his dealings were here on the NG.com forums instead of the DHP list. It took me a while (even after registering) for me to use the online forums more than the mailing list.

I'm guessing the reason why people don't talk too much about dreamh20 is because he's not around as much as the other guys. He did his piece (a rather large one at that), and kinda disappeared from public view. At least I don't see him around... I know he doesn't post on DHP, and I don't know if he still has an account on this particular forum anymore. NGF, on the other hand, has done just as much damage to many more people (if not more), and they STILL linger about. Like adding insult to injury... daring you to do something more... like a virus that refuses to be cured.

That's why you still see so much NGF bashing around here...

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: VinylBoy ]</p>

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
<strong> why doesnt anyone say anything about someone far far worse....DREAMH20!!! Why isnt this guy ever mentioned???
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, He's a sonuvabitch too, I know from personal experience (thankfully I wasn't scammed in the process).

This thread happens to be about ways to legally bag the biggest scamming artists in the market.

So please stay on target. Start a DreamH20 thread if you want, enough people do dislike him.

[CHRiZ-77]

Aren´t we all little Neo-Freaks?!? :eek:

I´m talking about real Fans, not noobs, mainstream-gamers and NGF-Stuff!!! <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" />

[The Legendary LoneWolf]

[quote]Originally posted by Ed:
<strong>http://www.imagemagician.org/images/edwardspics/freaks2.jpg

hmm...

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Ed ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

exuse me can you tell me WHO did that pic with the two cerebral palsy guys wearing NGF shirts, cause I find that VERY OFFENSIVE towards cerebral palsy people, to me that is no joke involving people with a condition like that

<img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> <img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" />

[The Legendary LoneWolf]

[quote]Originally posted by The Legendary LoneWolf:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> <img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

or they can possibly have downs syndrome
I am not an expert in the field of medical department, but that pic is still taking the piss

[aria]

[quote]Originally posted by The Legendary LoneWolf:
<strong>or they can possibly have downs syndrome
I am not an expert in the field of medical department, but that pic is still taking the piss</strong><hr></blockquote>

If it's any consolation, the people who do things like that are obviously pretty juvenile themselves. It's best to shrug and be glad they probably won't get a chance to pro-create until they wise up a bit.

[chimpmeister]

[quote]Originally posted by The Legendary LoneWolf:
<strong>

exuse me can you tell me WHO did that pic with the two cerebral palsy guys wearing NGF shirts, cause I find that VERY OFFENSIVE towards cerebral palsy people, to me that is no joke involving people with a condition like that

<img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> <img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Um, might want to do a bit of research on your "afflictions". The guy on the right most likely has Downs Syndrome, not CP. <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" />

[BioMotor_Unitron]

[quote]Originally posted by Bobak:
<strong>

I'm not a lawyer (yet), but I've done research in that area and it usually only works if the threatened person feels imminent harm -that is you actually think the other person is going to go out of their way to come and get you.

This is measure off of the standard of what a Reasonably Prudent Person would think in the exact same situation.

You could go for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, but that rarely works unless you have some kind of physical reaction (you start puking, loosing weight, insomnia -something that is long term and medically provable).

These are a few of your options. It's tricky to get it done, but it has been done before. In fact, I believe Biomotor has had someone thrown in the slammer before based on email evidence (or was it a phone call?). In that situation, it boiled down to an imminent physical threat.

Does that help?

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Bobak ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually they called from the airport to let me know they were coming, so I called the cops. It was either that or put a bullet in him when he showed up.

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: BioMotor_Unitron ]</p>

[buster_broon]

[quote]Originally posted by gunrock46:
<strong>

I'd love to have some info on the dream20 guy. Send me an email please.</strong><hr></blockquote>

just click on the link in my signature

its there you cannot miss it

;) ;)

[The Legendary LoneWolf]

[quote]Originally posted by chimpmeister:
<strong>

Um, might want to do a bit of research on your "afflictions". The guy on the right most likely has Downs Syndrome, not CP. <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

yeah thanks m8, before you try to jump on me look above 2 posts before yours, yeah above yours Bobak saw what I said after I wrote what you quoted about me, I corrected my mistake OK, I am bringing up a good issue and all you can add is my mistake, WHICH I corrected about 90 mins before you did. If you want to type something useful you should know what I wrote was a valid point. All you people who want to cuss Dion and Chris is your business, BUT to involve people who are innocent and have nothing to do with them is well out of f***in order. Who in the F**k do you people think you are using people who are disabled, less fortune than ourselves, mentally handicapped OR they can't or understand the level for which we use them for and they can't defend themselves as we able bodied peeps can if we were cussed is just LOWER than NGF, yes LOWER than DION DAKIS AND CHRIS RAY PUT TOGETHER. Bobak understood what I said, maybe cause he can read and others can't and I am getting critised cause I make a mistake that a NORMAL person would have understood OR who can READ( like Bobak) and not jump like a dog after a stick to stupidness. I think that is disgusting. if you peeps want to cuss Dion and Chris's operation use CONSTRUCTIVE points, not just using easy options or funny ones, I think it is sad I am pointing out the error of the 2 people used in a VERY BAD way and I am the only one saying the truth and the FIRST thing somebody says about my message is that I am not right, No its that I made a error in the condition and giving me the peoples eyebrow and telling me to do MORE research , well you should try and RESEARCH for some morales and values Which if he read under my origianl message, he would have saw I made up for my mistake. People like that should be put in a bag and whoever gets punched deserves it
<img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" />

[rugal2000]

Legendary wolf man U gotta understand, theres a lot of wankers on this board who make comments like that all the time and try and pass them selves off as nice guys.....there was one puke here called thirdkind who used to have a sig with a picture of disabled 100 metre runner winning a race with the headline..."I may run fast but im still a retard".....I commented on it, and the guy flamed me like anything. Just ignore it, people saying like that are playing with their lives, cos ive seen this happen, what goes around can come around...maybe one day that bastard will have a son with downs syndrone and then we'll see.

[The Legendary LoneWolf]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
<strong>Legendary wolf man U gotta understand, theres a lot of wankers on this board who make comments like that all the time and try and pass them selves off as nice guys.....there was one puke here called thirdkind who used to have a sig with a picture of disabled 100 metre runner winning a race with the headline..."I may run fast but im still a retard".....I commented on it, and the guy flamed me like anything. Just ignore it, people saying like that are playing with their lives, cos ive seen this happen, what goes around can come around...maybe one day that bastard will have a son with downs syndrone and then we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah and you know who I will feel sorry for, the Kid who will have a tosser for a parent, but at least I have 3 peeps who understand where I am coming from ( third person didn't comment by writing)

[Makismo]

[quote]Originally posted by BioMotor_Unitron:
<strong>

Actually they called from the airport to let me know they were coming, so I called the cops. It was either that or put a bullet in him when he showed up.

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: BioMotor_Unitron ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Tell me more BMU tell me more...
How do you know that they weren't just going to have a nice little chat with you?
:D

[SPINMASTER X]

[quote]Originally posted by chimpmeister:
<strong>

Um, might want to do a bit of research on your "afflictions". The guy on the right most likely has Downs Syndrome, not CP. <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't you have something better to do? Like humping your Xbox or jacking off to the pix in a Windows XP manual?

Lay of him why don't ya? Damn. This place gets fuckin lamer and lamer by the minute.

[rugal2000]

Origionally posted by makismo:"Tell me more BMU tell me more...
How do you know that they weren't just going to have a nice little chat with you?"


Are you that guy that started the petition to be unbanned???

<img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" />

[Makismo]

[quote]Originally posted by rugal2000:
Are you that guy that started the petition to be unbanned???

<img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

No but I was about to. ;)