Memory Card Solutions

SuperGun

Proto Hunter
20 Year Member
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Nov 10, 2001
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908
Hey Guys,

Over the last several weeks I have been experimenting with compact flash cards as an alternative to the pcmcia memory cards for the NEO-GEO. I have not had much luck and I am looking to see if someone here can figure this whole thing out.

First some background.

I grew tired of the extremely limited capabilities of the original NEO-GEO 2-kilobyte memory cards back in 1993 or so. I purchased a Panasonic SRAM card as an alternative and it has been my main memory card ever since. They came in sizes ranging from 32k on up to 4 meg. I myself have a 64k As far as compatibility is concerned, The card has always worked with every single NEO-GEO game with but only one exception, Riding Hero.

(I explained this in detail in a previous post as well as in my neogeo memory card faq)

Recently, I was looking for a cheaper and more modern alternative to those old bulky out dated cards. I purchased a compact flash card adaptor which has a jeida standard pinout (compatible with the neogeo mem card reader?) and allows compact flash cards to plug into it. I was very excited about it because if successfull, it would allow me to use more "modern" and cheap memory cards for the neo. The adaptor is only about $10 and 2mb compact flash cards sell for $3 on ebay all day long because they are useless (not enough memory) for modern day cfc users.

Everything looked great until I tried it. Basically, it doesn't work. When I try to format the card in the memory card utility on the NEO it says "unable to format card / memory card is write protected" Physically, there is no write protect "slide switch" on CFC's such as is found on the panasonic cards. And electronically, there is no way (at least not on my computer) to "disable" write protection.

The only other ideas I came up with were that maybe I could format the CFC's on my computer in a different file system. (in other words maybe the neo can only read CFC cards if they are pre-formatted a certain way. The cpu only allows formatting in the FAT format however. Any way to change that? I tried everything.

Hopefully someone here will work with me on trying to figure this out. The few techs whom I have discussed this with here and there have told me that nobody has really ever had the interest and/or the initiative to sit down and figure out the details of the neo-geo memory card standard. IMHO, figuring this out would be fun for us all because we would be able to save files and email them to eachother on all of the games.

Well, let me know if anyone here has any ideas.
Thanks for reading,
Billy Pitt
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
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The NeoGeo menory card does not use any file format. Its simply used as a form of RAM. There is no way a PC will read a memory card in the format the NeoGeo stores it. One would need to write software for the PC that could read the card on a byte level rather than going through a file system.

Raz
 

ttooddddyy

PNG FTW,
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The card will be seen as 2K whatever its actual capacity is. Its not like a larger capacity PCMCIA memory card will hold more saves afaik.
 

ttooddddyy

PNG FTW,
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Razoola said:
The NeoGeo menory card does not use any file format. Its simply used as a form of RAM. There is no way a PC will read a memory card in the format the NeoGeo stores it. One would need to write software for the PC that could read the card on a byte level rather than going through a file system.

Raz

It may be a good project for someone to write a program to decrypt the neo memory card data, then possibly transfer to a more readily available /cheaper convenient form of storage like a SD card.

edit. then again it would have to be encypted in order to be read by the neo hardware.

I think your the very man for this project Raz ;)
 
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Razoola

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SNK certinally did create software to read the memorycard on computer. It was to be used as part of the bookeeping function of the bios. The operator would save the bookeeping onto the memory card and then read it back from a computer. however this required a 16bit card and not 8bit (which is the normal neogeo card).

Raz
 

SuperGun

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IN A MANNER OF SPEAKING, NO!

ttooddddyy said:
The card will be seen as 2K whatever its actual capacity is. Its not like a larger capacity PCMCIA memory card will hold more saves afaik.


Hey my friend,

Just so you and everyone else here can be clear on this, prior to posting here I ran a quick search of the tech forums to see what (if anything) had been discussed regarding memory cards and the NEO-GEO. Only a few posts came up, but one of them was you saying exactly what you say above.

Basically, you were wrong then and now.

As I said, I have been using a 64 kilobytes card (that's 32 times the 2 kilobyte neogeo standard) for over ten years. It holds every single NEO-GEO game on there. Not just the "about 27" which an original card holds. Theres no "doubt" or "grey area" in this either. It is 100% undeniable FACT. Heck, I can provide pics to prove it if needed but regardless of that it is 100% true, the neo-geo DOES recognize more then just 2 kilobytes.

Also for the record, even the neo-geo owners manual says: "Besides the official NEO-GEO Memory Card, only an IC unification card which is over Ver. 3 (JEIDA) with 68 pins can be used" Also in the manual, the memory card specifications: "68 pin, 16 bit output memory card JEIDA SPECIFICATION (IC CARD, Guide Line of more than Ver. 3) In English, any PCMCIA memory card with JEIDA version 3 or higher is compatible.

Anyhow, that was not the subject of my post anyhow. I am not here to find ways to "increase" the available size of my memory cards as I already figured that out years ago, rather I am trying to find out why compact flash cards (via the pcmcia adaptor) do not work. The neo continues to say "memory card write protected". I guess my question is, HOW do I "disable" the write protect on a compact flash card? I have failed to do so both physically and electronically. Does anyone here know?

Lastly, as for what Razoola said, yes I have heard that as well, that software has to be written and/or found such as the "unreleased?" mvs operator bookeeping software. So my question is, who out here is up to this challenge?

Regards,
Billy Pitt
 
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TerryMathews

Mr. Big's Thug
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195
I can answer this one, and I don't know a damn thing about Neo-Geo's. :)

The cards that work are called linear flash cards. As opposed to a filesystem, the card itself literally maps into the Neo's memory space. Only other things I can think of that use linear flash are Apple Newtons and certain Cisco switches (older ones).

I could be completely wrong about this, but it fits up with both the time period and the amount of space we're talking about.
 

bytestorm

Armored Scrum Object
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Oct 7, 2004
Posts
268
hmm.. i have read alot of posts now about different cards and.. can some one just summary what is needed from the card (specs) for it to work with neo geo aes?

i dont really care about the size.. i just want a card that i can replace battery easily on =) some cards has a visible slot just for the battery!

please someone, tell me the needed specs!
 

ttooddddyy

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bytestorm said:
hmm.. i have read alot of posts now about different cards and.. can some one just summary what is needed from the card (specs) for it to work with neo geo aes?

i dont really care about the size.. i just want a card that i can replace battery easily on =) some cards has a visible slot just for the battery!

please someone, tell me the needed specs!

It has to be a PCMCIA type 2. Of the correct dimension. ie 3mm, they are available in other dimensions up to 5.5 mm afaik.

According to SuperGun "only an IC unification card which is over Ver. 3 (JEIDA) with 68 pins can be used". I havent tried this.
 
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dogtoy

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Nov 24, 2003
Posts
689
bytestorm said:
hmm.. i have read alot of posts now about different cards and.. can some one just summary what is needed from the card (specs) for it to work with neo geo aes?

i dont really care about the size.. i just want a card that i can replace battery easily on =) some cards has a visible slot just for the battery!

please someone, tell me the needed specs!

Basically, in plain english, any of the pcmcia SRAM cards found on ebay. Any size up to 4mb (there are no SRAM cards larger than 4mb, if it's bigger than 4mb it's a flash card). I wouldn't try any bigger than 1mb just because that is the biggest I have heard being used.

I have a 512k panasonic SRAM card (with a nice pop out tray for the cr2032 battery ;) ). These were used to add file storage to older PDA type devices, add sound banks to midi synthesizers, save system settings on older routers from cisco, add new, fancy stitch patterns to VERY expensive professional sewing machines, etc.

They can be cheap. Try to find ones that are not labled specifically for $4000 sewing machines, as these can run about $50-75. Try searching for pcmcia ram or pcmcia sram and you will find some in less frequented parts of ebay.

cheers,
-DT

PS- as an aside to the above - reading to computer debate, I posted a theory in a thread about saving saves in neo cd systems before the battery dies about using an EPROM reader to copy the contents of the SRAM chip. My eprom programmer can read and write to SRAM chips, so it is just a matter of wiring the sram chip to the socket on the EPROM programmer without disconnecting the battery, and then dumping the image of the ram. This should give a complete back-up of all saves. To restore, wire it up again and program it into the SRAM chip.

Maybe if someone tried this we could figure how the saves are coded and make new saves to be placed on cards. New highscores, etc.
 

SuperGun

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Mystery Solved, I think.

dogtoy said:
...any of the pcmcia SRAM cards found on ebay. Any size up to 4mb (there are no SRAM cards larger than 4mb, if it's bigger than 4mb it's a flash card)...

I think you figured this out. There are the KEY words I guess...SRAM versus FLASH. By definition, a "compact flash card" is a "FLASH card that is compact".
:loco:
Point being it is a FLASH card and NOT an SRAM card. Therefore, I will now conclude with 99% certainty that my compact flash card w/adaptor experiment never had a chance and was a waste of time and resources. Unless compact sram cards with the same pinouts as compact flash cards exist? Anyone know?
:rolleyes:
I will assume not and therefore my main question is now answered. Thanks guys for all of your input in the thread.

Best Regards,
Billy Pitt
 

dogtoy

Haomaru's Blade Shiner
Joined
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Posts
689
SuperGun said:
Point being it is a FLASH card and NOT an SRAM card. Therefore, I will now conclude with 99% certainty that my compact flash card w/adaptor experiment never had a chance and was a waste of time and resources.

:lol:
I thought you knew this from the outset and were just being difficult.

cheers,
-DT
 
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