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View Full Version : Unofficial KOF2002 Tourney at EVOLUTION!



AKscrube
07-20-2005, 02:59 PM
Due to low voter turn-out, we cannot in good faith add any of the votable titles to the official EVO lineup.

However, in an attempt to recognize the winning efforts of the KOF community, we will offer them the use of dedicated on-site tvs should they wish to run their own tournament.

As stated, we will be honoring refunds for ALL of the votable games. This includes KOF. According to the rules we posted, players could expect a refund unless the game had at least close to 100 entries. Since that is not the case in whatever KOF contests will be held, we don't want to "hijack" anyone's vote by forcing them to play in a much smaller tournament. This doesn't mean KOF voters must take a refund, but it is available to them. All other tournament money will be refunded automatically in the manner requested. Any remaining KOF entry fees will be handed out to the winners.

To respond to the remaining issues:

--Yes, TTT currently has a low number of votes. However, people planning on entering that tournament can register for it all the way up until the day before the tournament starts, meaning that many may be waiting to sign up (just as they are on the other games), because they enjoy standing in long lines. That said, if TTT does ultimately have a very low number of entrants, it will be on the chopping block for next year's lineup, just as VF4 was reduced to "possible" status based on it's low number of entrants last year (in spite of the fact that it is a solid game and had an exciting finals).

--As far as the various reasons for not voting, etc.: If it wasn't easy enough for you this time, I have bad news--it doesn't get a lot easier than this, folks. Voting needs to be done in advance so we can make arrangements to have any extra equipment needed on hand, and we think it needs to be paid to avoid having people who aren't attending control what happens for the people that are. The amount of money is also not a lot- 10$ is not major cash for anyone (if you don't have 10$, you probably can't afford a tournament anyway (or even afford lunch)), especially when it is completely refundable. If anyone has any realistic ideas for how to improve the voting system, we welcome the suggestions.

We worked hard to implement the voting system in an effort to give the players direct control over which games would be played (beyond the titles that are already clearly popular), and on a personal note, I have to say I am disappointed. This is not a disaster and there will be some really fun events instead of the extra games, but if we'd had 1/10th as many actual votes for (Game X) as we've had posts about how criminal it was to exclude (Game X), we'd be staging the world's largest (Game X) tournament this year.

Big ups to the people that did vote and I'll see everyone @ EVO.

best,
Seth

People...this may seem to be a dissapointment to some but i see this as a huge opportunity for SNK gamers to really step it up another level...we can run this on AES if we want to...as of now, we have ONE AES, ONE KOF2002 Cart, and at least 3 NEOGEO AES compatible sticks available for use for this tourney...we want people to play in our tourney because then we can possibly make a decent case to get our game showcased...we will need everyone to help out with equipment, organizing, whatever...this is KOF on a national stage and we litterally have free reign over the outcome this...

taitai
07-20-2005, 04:02 PM
We should be able to get this off the ground at the BYOC room, assuming if there is one.

Also, why not PS2->Neo converters?

AKscrube
07-21-2005, 02:12 AM
PS2->NEO converters would work too...thing is, BYOC room is in the main hall this year at EVO

SNKJorge
07-21-2005, 08:57 AM
Too late. I offered a new mvs kit, a new KOF'02 homecart,
an aes system, a consolized two-slot, but it was
rejected, because the neogeo home console 'It's too old'. I'm not even going
to EVO anymore. The organizers of the even are just terrible.

Big Shady
07-21-2005, 09:16 AM
When and where is the EVO this year? I'm too lazy to look it up :p

VanillaThunder
07-21-2005, 09:57 AM
What tools.. no SNK games. This is "We don't want to give up vital space for teh 3d and capcom games."

TTT stays but SNK games don't... idiots.

Repukken
07-22-2005, 05:24 AM
TTT stays cause of turn out history. Despite how big KOF is in other countries, its just isn't as big as TTT in the US. And honestly, I rather see a big turn out for TTT then having a minor turn out on KOF 02. Its bad enough that the media thinks the the fighting game tournament scene is dead/useless. The last thing we want is to have a big international event like EVO be laughed at cause some Neo Geo guys wanted a KOF tournament and only 32 people show up while 3rd Strike or T5 has over 200+ signups. You know how stupid SNK would look if that ever happened? Think about that before thinking they're idiots next time or maybe you should take into what Seth Killian is saying and vote on your beloved game.

VanillaThunder
07-22-2005, 10:49 AM
TTT stays cause of turn out history. Despite how big KOF is in other countries, its just isn't as big as TTT in the US. And honestly, I rather see a big turn out for TTT then having a minor turn out on KOF 02. Its bad enough that the media thinks the the fighting game tournament scene is dead/useless. The last thing we want is to have a big international event like EVO be laughed at cause some Neo Geo guys wanted a KOF tournament and only 32 people show up while 3rd Strike or T5 has over 200+ signups. You know how stupid SNK would look if that ever happened? Think about that before thinking they're idiots next time or maybe you should take into what Seth Killian is saying and vote on your beloved game.


Do you *really* think only 32 will show up if it was guaranteed?

Puuuhllease.

Average Joe
07-22-2005, 11:39 AM
Who cares...

These are the same people who play MvC2 religiously.

So it's not like their taste in fighters is any more refined than ours.

("ours" meaning SNK/KOF fans.)

LWK
07-22-2005, 12:06 PM
Is it legal to make a evo dvd and profit off it? These guys are sponsored by the companies/licensed to do so right?


Who cares...

These are the same people who play MvC2 religiously.

So it's not like their taste in fighters is any more refined than ours.

("ours" meaning SNK/KOF fans.)

It is MUCH more difficult to be really good at MVSC2 then KOF. MVSC2 has so much area and shit to cover you could spend your whole life with that game. Same with GGXX and etc. Not for me because of that.

I prefer fighters with the traditional feel/engines. Its a simplistic thing for me because im to mentally retarded to be able to put up with the super reaction MVSC2 players. That J Wong is really insane..

kiun
07-22-2005, 12:38 PM
It is MUCH more difficult to be really good at MVSC2 then KOF. MVSC2 has so much area and shit to cover you could spend your whole life with that game. Same with GGXX and etc. Not for me because of that.
.

So true. Sure MVSC2 is broken due to the crazy high tiers, but you can't deny that you need plenty of skill to be good at it.

I just don't understand the hate. Some ppl prefer game with standard engine, others prefer games with frentic air combos etc.

SPINMASTER X
07-22-2005, 01:07 PM
elitist attitudes, thats all it is kiun. everyone thinks their game is better.

AKscrube
07-22-2005, 03:20 PM
guys...KOF won the vote in process with only 19 paid entries...either people just didnt want to pay online or whatever...but the things is we are welcome to have an unofficial tourney using their TV's as opposed to using BYOC TV's *and consequently, our own*...and since it is an unofficial tourney...we can use AES/consolized MVS/PS2/DC/Colecovision if you want to help run a KOF2002 Tourney...hell, why not add Neowave & 98 to the mix! There prolly will be a table where we can sign people up for a legitamate KOF2002 tourney *we're tryin to work on that*...98 & Neowave are just my idea but whatever...and the reason why Neos were rejected was because not everyone in the US has access to an MVS or AES...its just that simple...i grew up in Alaska where basically KOF was played more that SF due to game availability...FYI, KOF won with 19 paid *45 signed up* following by Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam with 15 paid votes...i know im going to bring my AES, original AES stick, MAS Stick with AES compatibility *with buttons arranged like the MVS* and i plan on buying KOF98 by the time EVO comes around, and my 19 inch TV...

www.evo2k.com

Repukken
07-22-2005, 03:26 PM
Do you *really* think only 32 will show up if it was guaranteed?

Puuuhllease.

Maybe more then 32, but whatever the numbers are, it won't add up to the calibur that is expected out of something like Evolution. Make no mistake KOF02 is a decent game, still think 98 is the better year. But it will never be a 3rd Strike or Tekken 5 in popularity.

AKscrube
07-22-2005, 03:41 PM
All i know i know...when NGBC hits, im running tourneys for that as often as i can and i except the brunt of this board's members to show up and play since i personally think this will be SNK's MUST PLAY IT GAME of the yeah...we've all been craving it, now lets properly set up a good tourney playing community for NGBC at least here in Southern California...

i will also be lookin for SRK, S-C, and other board's members to come out and play...

taitai
07-22-2005, 06:11 PM
guys...KOF won the vote in process with only 19 paid entries...either people just didnt want to pay online or whatever...but the things is we are welcome to have an unofficial tourney using their TV's as opposed to using BYOC TV's *and consequently, our own*...and since it is an unofficial tourney...we can use AES/consolized MVS/PS2/DC/Colecovision if you want to help run a KOF2002 Tourney...hell, why not add Neowave & 98 to the mix! There prolly will be a table where we can sign people up for a legitamate KOF2002 tourney *we're tryin to work on that*...98 & Neowave are just my idea but whatever...and the reason why Neos were rejected was because not everyone in the US has access to an MVS or AES...its just that simple...i grew up in Alaska where basically KOF was played more that SF due to game availability...FYI, KOF won with 19 paid *45 signed up* following by Capcom Fighting Evolution/Jam with 15 paid votes...i know im going to bring my AES, original AES stick, MAS Stick with AES compatibility *with buttons arranged like the MVS* and i plan on buying KOF98 by the time EVO comes around, and my 19 inch TV...

www.evo2k.com

I'm down.

Besides, since they're letting US run it, or atleast, whoever shows up and wants to, we can use something other than 2k2. Why not a 98 tournament? Or a 94 Tournament? >)

BTW, Coleco Vision KOF2k3 rules.

AKscrube
07-23-2005, 01:20 AM
as i mentioned in SRK a day or 2 ago...im willing to run or help run 2002/98/Neowave...and of course i already know some good friends of mine are running an unnofficial Garou tourney and i will be playing that too, i just hope they use PS2 *unless someone wants to shell out AES/consolized MVS & Garou AES/MVS lol*

Dash no Chris
07-23-2005, 11:46 AM
I'm down.
Allow me to be the second Las Vegas resident to declare that he is also "down with this." I've got an AES console, sticks, and a very small collection of (mostly older) carts, but I can acquire KOF'02 (or KOF'98) before EVO2k5.

Of the other forum members who plan to attend EVO, how many can bring an AES console, a KOF'02 cart, a KOF'98 cart (or any combination thereof) with them?

Being able to have a KOF tourney with participation numbers rivalling that of 3rd STRIKE doesn't really concern me -- but I think it'd be incredibly cool (not to mention a feather in the cap of all U.S. NEO fans) if EVO had a successful KOF tournament that happened not because of the tournament sponsors, but because of the perseverance of the KOF fan community. None of the other "voter" game titles have been given this opportunity, and I think we owe it to our love for the NEO to do everything we can to make this happen.

--Chris

SNKJorge
07-23-2005, 11:54 AM
I think EVO is a good tournament, too bad is console only, and the
organizers of the event are truely not 'Organized' and they don't make
the wisest decisions either. Poor handling of the tournament IMO.

Dash no Chris
07-23-2005, 12:26 PM
I think EVO is a good tournament, too bad is console only, and the
organizers of the event are truely not 'Organized' and they don't make
the wisest decisions either. Poor handling of the tournament IMO.
Agreed, on all counts -- especially the "console-only" aspect*. As many people as I see on SRK that think that Japan's Arcadia-sponsored Tougeki Super Battle Opera Tournaments (which are cabinet-only) are the greatest thing since shredded wheat met frosting (I myself am one of these folks), I can't get my brain around the idea of a console tournament being so acceptable to so many people. For me, playing a game on a full-sized arcade cabinet will always outshine playing that same game on a console, no matter how arcade-perfect the conversion may be. I'd just like to see America have a tournament that tries its best to emulate Super Battle Opera, especially in the cabs-only / no-consoles area. But without corporate sponsorship (like SBO has with Arcadia, ASCII, and enterbrain backing it) -- or at the very least, a venue city with a local arcade location that has the necessary cabs and/or can obtain the extra cabs from local amusement machine distributors for the weekend -- I don't see this happening.

I agree, too, on the mishandling of many organizational aspects of this year's EVO event. This is another reason why I'd like to see a community-backed/-organized KOF tourney happen at EVO -- whatever the participation levels, I think it would speak well of us as NEO fans if we were able to pull this off, disparate and unorganized though we may be.

* I noticed that they were indicating that SFZ3 would've been on CPS2 (and there are conflicting listings for Vampire Savior, with some indicating PS2 and others CPS2), if it had made it through the voting process. curious that these games were considered for the CPS2 treatment, while SSFIIX was not...

--Chris

SNKJorge
07-23-2005, 01:13 PM
Exactly. SBO seems so bad ass, with people battling it out in cabs,
it's perfect.


Agreed, on all counts -- especially the "console-only" aspect*. As many people as I see on SRK that think that Japan's Arcadia-sponsored Tougeki Super Battle Opera Tournaments (which are cabinet-only) are the greatest thing since shredded wheat met frosting (I myself am one of these folks), I can't get my brain around the idea of a console tournament being so acceptable to so many people. For me, playing a game on a full-sized arcade cabinet will always outshine playing that same game on a console, no matter how arcade-perfect the conversion may be. I'd just like to see America have a tournament that tries its best to emulate Super Battle Opera, especially in the cabs-only / no-consoles area. But without corporate sponsorship (like SBO has with Arcadia, ASCII, and enterbrain backing it) -- or at the very least, a venue city with a local arcade location that has the necessary cabs and/or can obtain the extra cabs from local amusement machine distributors for the weekend -- I don't see this happening.

I agree, too, on the mishandling of many organizational aspects of this year's EVO event. This is another reason why I'd like to see a community-backed/-organized KOF tourney happen at EVO -- whatever the participation levels, I think it would speak well of us as NEO fans if we were able to pull this off, disparate and unorganized though we may be.

* I noticed that they were indicating that SFZ3 would've been on CPS2 (and there are conflicting listings for Vampire Savior, with some indicating PS2 and others CPS2), if it had made it through the voting process. curious that these games were considered for the CPS2 treatment, while SSFIIX was not...

--Chris

AKscrube
07-23-2005, 05:48 PM
i think the whole console thing has to due with game board availability, cost of shipping, and general all around lack of decent arcades for ppl to play one...i personally would see EVO use boards but i do understand their point of view...

SNKJorge
07-23-2005, 08:28 PM
i think the whole console thing has to due with game board availability

This is not an excuse, sorry. There are plenty of boards around, plenty, you just
need to look correctly.

AKscrube
07-23-2005, 09:32 PM
ok, you got me on that...but who is going to buy/rent all of the boards needed to run 7 game tournaments with expected tournouts of at least in 100 participants in some cases? im sure that would a pretty penny...believe me, id like to see someone just donate a crapload of boards fresh for tourney play, but thats seems to be very difficult for SRK/Evolution tourney organizers to do...not just for Neo Geo games but for any game really...who would shoulder the cost of buying/renting and shipping boards?

good discussion, lets keep it up, i am totally loving this enthusiasm!

Frankfurt
07-23-2005, 09:36 PM
This is not an excuse, sorry. There are plenty of boards around, plenty, you just need to look correctly.

Around the country? Yes.

But can you find... say, a dozen (in the case of games like MVC2 or 3s the number would be much higher - i remember when they used to go after more than twenty fully working CPS3s for 3s...) fully working boards in Las Vegas for each game in the tourney (thatīs seven games this year - 15 if all the voting games had entered)?

More than that, can you find people in Las Vegas that not only have that ammount of boards, but willing to rent them? Not only the boards, but cabinets in perfect working condition and with adequate sticks and buttons (matching each respective board)?

That would be 84 boards and 84 cabinets (real number is higher than that, due to GG, 3s and MVC2), all in perfect condition.

Thatīs impossible to find in one city. Itīs the US, not Japan. People would have to fly the boards and cabs from all over the country. You know how much flying one cabinet costs. Now try 84. No, donīt fly them. Find a cheaper way. The cheapest way you can think of. Take them there by horse or camel. Find 84 (actually 168, but letīs ignore that) riders.

Now look at the entry fees, multiply by the number of players, then subtract the total of prizes.

Do i think a console tourney is good? Nope. It sucks. But you have to wake up. Consoles allow them to have 2 out of 3 matches, since they can get as many consoles as necessary (and carry them there themselves - just the staff and volunteers). Consoles mean much smaller lines. Consoles mean nobody having trouble with the controls. It means that if a controller or stick breaks, you can replace it in ten seconds. It means side-tourneys, more money matches, less trouble.

It means not waiting in line until midnight to play your match.

SNKJorge
07-24-2005, 06:06 AM
I do know the cost of shipment of a cab, I own 3 myself.
I know that SRK can't, and does not have the ability of getting a
console tourney together (At least well organized), and let's not even
talk about an arcade one.

Las Vegas has quite a few arcades with a selection of good machines. Why
not rent one of those places for 2-3 days? Plus, changing buttons and joysticks
on a cabinet doesn't take hrs, it takes probably about 10 mins, unless it's
soldered, which is not the case with most cabs.

In the end, an arcade only tourney will not happen, I guess we're all
dreaming.


Around the country? Yes.

But can you find... say, a dozen (in the case of games like MVC2 or 3s the number would be much higher - i remember when they used to go after more than twenty fully working CPS3s for 3s...) fully working boards in Las Vegas for each game in the tourney (thatīs seven games this year - 15 if all the voting games had entered)?

More than that, can you find people in Las Vegas that not only have that ammount of boards, but willing to rent them? Not only the boards, but cabinets in perfect working condition and with adequate sticks and buttons (matching each respective board)?

That would be 84 boards and 84 cabinets (real number is higher than that, due to GG, 3s and MVC2), all in perfect condition.

Thatīs impossible to find in one city. Itīs the US, not Japan. People would have to fly the boards and cabs from all over the country. You know how much flying one cabinet costs. Now try 84. No, donīt fly them. Find a cheaper way. The cheapest way you can think of. Take them there by horse or camel. Find 84 (actually 168, but letīs ignore that) riders.

Now look at the entry fees, multiply by the number of players, then subtract the total of prizes.

Do i think a console tourney is good? Nope. It sucks. But you have to wake up. Consoles allow them to have 2 out of 3 matches, since they can get as many consoles as necessary (and carry them there themselves - just the staff and volunteers). Consoles mean much smaller lines. Consoles mean nobody having trouble with the controls. It means that if a controller or stick breaks, you can replace it in ten seconds. It means side-tourneys, more money matches, less trouble.

It means not waiting in line until midnight to play your match.

LWK
07-24-2005, 06:35 AM
Evo is a mess really. I would not accept anything at a tourney unless its machines with sanwa only parts. You are breaking the law by profiting off of this in this country also. If you guys got actual company sponors, more power to you.
There should be no profit off these dvd's, they should just upload these matches for nothing. No DVD's.

What is up with this: http://www.evo2k.com/mediapics/evo2k4(1).JPG

Thats unreal for a tourney set up, you gotta have tons of machines. If I was running some kind of event I'd even cut into my own wallet to get things right. Those machines are essential to any event. When I go to somewhere like Super Arcade near mt sac, I go to play in a cade. Not some console port or roms bullshit.
I might as well just jump on mame, hell its illegal also, and totally free, with a plethora of killer players. Does evo even have rom set ups? Its hard to tell from the pics..

I won't use a american style stick in a tourney, or a pad or keyboard. Hell, I would only use sanwa parts, even for my playing, you have the slightest skew and it can seriously effect personal performance.

Its funny the JP players always tear the americans apart also, yet I bet they get frustrated being apart from most sanwa styled controls. Dumb shit becomes increasingly important when you go to a event like this. Even my DC agetec stick is styled in the sanwa fashion, but none of the parts are actually sanwa to begin with. Its a great stick, but would I take it to a tourney if I could have better? Not a chance. The DC stick has a very loose joystick, in which a sanwa stick is more strict and very slightly smaller. Its like using a tiny gauge guitar pick for shred.

If you go to a event like this and you dont have some sort of controller converter, your doomed. Especially when I'm paying, I expect the very best. Nobody goes to a movie theatre to watch a dvd. It should be the same concept.

Imagine max combos on a ps2 pad? No fucking way for me.

Bottom line, my view of a perfect tourney:

More then 30 techs with tons of spare parts. A kings road of Neo Candy and other candy based units. Linkables especially, since you can have arm space, for that asshole who just won't scoot over. *I hate people that hog up area*
You need to have this flexibility. Hell, even have a grip of consoles for knit pickers, but remember mostly candy based units, there is not a way on earth to play thats more confortable then those damn units.

From the site pics, it looks like a giant cafeteria school event. A ton of players must have been pissed when they went through those doors to see mostly console stuff set.

My friend Jorge made a good point in saying that playing fighters competitive is greatly respectful. It shouldn't be some homebrew operation. A great idea thats poorly executed.

Most people will want these dvd's to see the JP players at there best, yet as far as I understand, in JP, sanwa parts are plentiful.


TTT stays cause of turn out history. Despite how big KOF is in other countries, its just isn't as big as TTT in the US. And honestly, I rather see a big turn out for TTT then having a minor turn out on KOF 02. Its bad enough that the media thinks the the fighting game tournament scene is dead/useless. The last thing we want is to have a big international event like EVO be laughed at cause some Neo Geo guys wanted a KOF tournament and only 32 people show up while 3rd Strike or T5 has over 200+ signups. You know how stupid SNK would look if that ever happened? Think about that before thinking they're idiots next time or maybe you should take into what Seth Killian is saying and vote on your beloved game.

You are out of your mind if you dont think 2002 will get support. If you check all over mame, there is consistent play every fucking place and tons of virtually untouchable players.

How about super arcade and arcade inf at night? That only accounts for so cal!
Its not like SNK has any say anyways, since the core profit is raked directly to the idiots who do what anyone else could do.



Originally Posted by s-kill
Due to low voter turn-out, we cannot in good faith add any of the votable titles to the official EVO lineup.


Ridiculous, so I guess you'd see a tourney for capcom fighting evo before a KOF?
If alot of these dudes actually cared about gaming and the gamers who play the damn games, they shouldn't be charged in the first place. I mean shit, you want a killer turn out? Make it totally free. (I know this is pushing it, but what the hell, ya know)

You are gonna have to have a fucking toss out year for these SNK titles to pick up steam. Why don't I go? Pretty damn simple actually, its not like theres tourneys for FFS, KOF 98, Garou, etc etc. Or there was and I totally missed out. I'd probably loose for sure, but I can't pick up experience when dudes are to afraid to just lay out 2002 for any kind of loss. Seems funny since most likely MVSC2 has a billion machines.

I wouldn't mind paying 10$ for a entrance, thats nothing. For making a DVD which will be sold for decent money there should be fucking machines with killer set ups EVERYWHERE. Get some sponsers and expand your horizons to just fighters in general. If you can have TTT you guys are morons for neglecting alot of the SNK side so much. I remember seeing this vid of a japanese dark stalkers tourney. They had like two linkable candies on a center stage.

There is no excuse for things being 'limited. I know someone must have deep pockets at this point, how messed up.

FMJaguar
07-24-2005, 03:35 PM
Evo is a mess really. I would not accept anything at a tourney unless its machines with sanwa only parts.


You are welcome to bring your own sanwa parts, however people who are good on US sticks and ps2 pads and whatever else shouldn't be denied the chance.


There should be no profit off these dvd's, they should just upload these matches for nothing. No DVD's.

Well you have part of your wish, it has been stated after last years event that the dvd sales go to covering the event and (one day when there is actually funds leftover) continuing support in the fighting game community for other events and excursions. There is no money at this point to be made in fighting games, so I question any idea of 'profiting'... maybe 'a fleeting hope to recover the inital investment not even counting the time and energy put in as well by several people' would be a more appropriate description.



What is up with this: http://www.evo2k.com/mediapics/evo2k4(1).JPG

Thats unreal for a tourney set up, you gotta have tons of machines. If I was running some kind of event I'd even cut into my own wallet to get things right. Those machines are essential to any event. When I go to somewhere like Super Arcade near mt sac, I go to play in a cade. Not some console port or roms bullshit.


1) Roms are not used for any official event, none of the games that were possible xbox-e games made the cut, so this remains true, even if those games had made it, they probably would not have been emu'd

2) There are no arcades of significant interest anymore, so while some people prefer them, they are irrelavant to most current players, and 99.999% of any future players. Arcade machines are also a major turnoff to sponsors and anyone that wants to appeal to current (read: not stuck in 1980) gamers. This is not to say that arcades have 0 advantages, but the future is to enhance the console community with what we loved about arcades, not to pretend that arcades are modern and cool again.

3) If your game doesn't have a console port, or if your players reject all the console versions, its future in the us is severely limited. See alpha 3 for examples.


Its funny the JP players always tear the americans apart also, yet I bet they get frustrated being apart from most sanwa styled controls. Dumb shit becomes increasingly important when you go to a event like this. Even my DC agetec stick is styled in the sanwa fashion, but none of the parts are actually sanwa to begin with. Its a great stick, but would I take it to a tourney if I could have better? Not a chance. The DC stick has a very loose joystick, in which a sanwa stick is more strict and very slightly smaller. Its like using a tiny gauge guitar pick for shred.

Japan has almost always had access to sanwa controls, and this year there will be even more sanwa controllers brought by the US players.

I don't understand where your agetec comment applies, it's well known that an agetec is not the same as an authentic sanwa. Furthermore the only people who would actually need to use a agetec are people that prefer it, those who prefer sanwa, use sanwa.


If you go to a event like this and you dont have some sort of controller converter, your doomed. Especially when I'm paying, I expect the very best. Nobody goes to a movie theatre to watch a dvd. It should be the same concept.

It's known well in advance what consoles will be used, and as long as your controller is ps2-ready, it will be good for everything but mvc2 and the optional games (a3,mkd,doau) none of which are being held officially anyway. But none of those are a major concern to snk players, and for those who are interested in those games they can participate on more appropriate forums.


More then 30 techs with tons of spare parts. A kings road of Neo Candy and other candy based units. Linkables especially, since you can have arm space, for that asshole who just won't scoot over. *I hate people that hog up area*
You need to have this flexibility. Hell, even have a grip of consoles for knit pickers, but remember mostly candy based units, there is not a way on earth to play thats more confortable then those damn units.


You are more than welcome to make this a reality, and i think it would be great for the community, there are very few large events and yours would probably be a welcome addition to the scene. I happen to disagree, but thats the beauty of things, you can run your events your way, and others can run theirs their way.


From the site pics, it looks like a giant cafeteria school event. A ton of players must have been pissed when they went through those doors to see mostly console stuff set.

I don't know how they even got to the event without knowing what it is, it's not like it was presented as a big arcade tourney.


Most people will want these dvd's to see the JP players at there best, yet as far as I understand, in JP, sanwa parts are plentiful.

Since sanwa is a japanese company i would hope so. However through the communities efforts, sanwa parts are about as accessible as anything else you can buy online, a ton of people (especially in the past year) have been making sanwa sticks, converting sticks to sanwa, modding arcade machines, etc...


You are out of your mind if you dont think 2002 will get support. If you check all over mame, there is consistent play every fucking place and tons of virtually untouchable players.

I'm sure everyone believes their game will get support, the question is just whether we can prove it has support right now to be a major game. That target was 100 people total, which IMO is very realistic. We can make excuses about other games and whether the number was too high, but reality tells me that if there's 200+ million people in my country, and most of them like vegas to begin with, then getting 100 registrations is nothing. It's not even like you needed 100 people to pay $20, get a pizza shop or some intenet company to throw $100 for 5 ppl in here and there, make it into something fun. I know it's too late for this year, but if i have any say it's not getting easier, no point in having huge events and sponsors for games that aren't going to even do the simplest thing and get some people signed up to play, and that includes SF games.

My favorite example is the 3rd Strike community, it wasn't even on the map a few years ago, but their players did the right things and now their game is #1 so far. Unfortunately now that they've done it, the excuse that 'it can't be done' is gone.


Ridiculous, so I guess you'd see a tourney for capcom fighting evo before a KOF?

Depends on the players, i have no preference for either, but if i did, i would make sure they got the required entries to be official. I like standards, it means i don't have to kiss anyone's ass or do some shady deal to get my game established, i just have to get done what needs to be done. By the same token i have no problem losing sleep at night wondering if evo has the best games or not, because it's decided by the players, not the opinion of a few people.


If alot of these dudes actually cared about gaming and the gamers who play the damn games, they shouldn't be charged in the first place. I mean shit, you want a killer turn out? Make it totally free. (I know this is pushing it, but what the hell, ya know)

The problem with making everything free is that it loses meaning. I want to be around players that realize the importance of the community helping itself, and are willing to invest a nearly insignificant portion of their trip cost into future events. In this sense, the players sponsor the event, sponsors get a say, so if you want the players to have a say, they have to invest in the tournament instead of outside vendors.


You are gonna have to have a fucking toss out year for these SNK titles to pick up steam. Why don't I go? Pretty damn simple actually, its not like theres tourneys for FFS, KOF 98, Garou, etc etc. Or there was and I totally missed out. I'd probably loose for sure, but I can't pick up experience when dudes are to afraid to just lay out 2002 for any kind of loss. Seems funny since most likely MVSC2 has a billion machines.

Again comparing will get us nowhere, the real questions are:

1) why does putting snk on a big screen as opposed to a small one affect your ability to learn, especialy when you say your not going to do well either way.

2) why doesn't snk have a billion machines? MvC2 was barely an evo game until the MvC2 players made it happen, it's not like evo gave them much help, i would do a little more research on this topic.


There is no excuse for things being 'limited. I know someone must have deep pockets at this point, how messed up.

There are a lot of people with deep pockets, it's just that there aren't any results, much less even an interesting vision of what there is to invest in. To me having japanese cabs i knew might sell 100 or less units in the US to arcades that aren't going to exist in a few years isn't a great business proposal . Having a game that has 19 registered out of all the potential players isn't worth it. I'm sure a ton of other people share my view, but you haven't even interested them enough for them to explain to you why they aren't interested..

Dash no Chris
07-25-2005, 12:15 PM
My favorite example is the 3rd Strike community, it wasn't even on the map a few years ago, but their players did the right things and now their game is #1 so far.

[snip]

Depends on the players, i have no preference for either, but if i did, i would make sure they got the required entries to be official. I like standards, it means i don't have to kiss anyone's ass or do some shady deal to get my game established, i just have to get done what needs to be done.

[snip]

MvC2 was barely an evo game until the MvC2 players made it happen, it's not like evo gave them much help, i would do a little more research on this topic.
For those of us who haven't followed the 3rd STRIKE or MvC2 scene (but have noticed the increased overall popularity of those titles in recent years and would like to see the same thing happen to our favorite NEO titles), could you give us a brief summation of what the players of those games did to popularize them? This subject is a bit broad, and obviously was a process that took some time to complete, so it'd be a little tricky to research. Any insight you could provide into what steps the 3rd STRIKE and MvC2 players did -- and/or suggestions for applying the lessons of their efforts to our NEO games -- would be much appreciated by all those interested in revitalizing the competitive NEO scene.

--Chris

VinylBoy
07-25-2005, 07:52 PM
Too late. I offered a new mvs kit, a new KOF'02 homecart,
an aes system, a consolized two-slot, but it was
rejected, because the neogeo home console 'It's too old'. I'm not even going
to EVO anymore. The organizers of the even are just terrible.

Yes... this is the exact reason why I could careless about any attempts to hold SNKP game tournaments at Evo. Since it's a "console based" tournament they want people to have the ability to bring their own controllers and such. Even though there are plenty of people who would be willing to bring in MVS setups and even bring in their home systems so they can play "arcade exact" versions of the game, they voted against it all because most people think that the Neo Geo controllers suck.

This is even after it has been pointed out that there were some major holes in the third party versions of KOF 2002 that could make an impact on serious tournament play. They're accepting gameplay flaws just so that people can play on the controller they choose.

It is by far the dumbest excuse I have heard. People may argue that gameplayers should be able to use their own controllers, but in order to eliminate all of the guesswork and really pinpoint a TRUE champion in a tournament, people need to be forced to use the same gear and play an arcade exact version of the game. Anyone who plays SNK games seriously are used to the fact that having an exact port of a game goes far beyond the look & feel of the game, and they won't put up with a game that is sub-par by any means when it pertains to gameplay. Anyone that is a true tournament player should know that a person with real gaming skills will have no trouble at all executing any of their moves on ANY controller. It's only those that seek for excuses that actually would blame a fully working controller as to why they weren't able to properly uppercut their way out of a loss.

Evo had good intentions with involving SNKP games, but if they're going to truly represent them the people who hold this tournament have to go all the way and stop being so half-assed about it.


MvC2 was barely an evo game until the MvC2 players made it happen, it's not like evo gave them much help, i would do a little more research on this topic.

I have to disagree. MvC2 had its legions of fans way before Evo came into play. It made sense that MvC2 would be a heavy favorite for tournament play for the US fanbase was already there to begin with. The Evo just accellerated its popularity on a tournament level, due to the fact that there were specific players that seemed completely unbeatable such as Justin Wong. Towards the later stages of MvC2's reign as the "hot game", it became more of a race to see who could "topple the king" instead of how to play the game and everyone wanted to see the first one to do it.

And, (dare I say it??!?)... MvC2 was the only Capcom game that the US could actually beat Japan in consistently. The best US gamers didn't do as well as the Japanese in just about every other Capcom figher, and for most that was accepted as long as the competition remained close. But Third Strike was the one title that Japanese players beat US players the worse. If I recall during the first SRK advertised meeting of top US & Japanese gamers, Japan literally wiped the floor with the US. I think the US only won ONCE out of the several pairings they had.

Ever since then, US gamers had no choice but to redeem themselves so more attention was paid to the game. And Third Strike's "gaining popularity" has a lot to do with the fact that people are learning more strategies to play the game competitively. Whereas most people agree that all of the gaming strats for MvC2 has been exhausted.

AKscrube
07-26-2005, 01:48 AM
d00d, vinny, you are right on damn near everything...but the fact remains that NeoGeo AES/MVS games are simply not as available for the general public to play in the USA, that is why i think the EVO Organizers decided to use ports because the general public has a PS2 and easier access to DOMESTIC versions of KOF *and soon to be other SNK games* than they do to AES/MVS games...not everyone plays KOF on the standard NEOGEO setup *although i wish they would...* but its simply vastly difficult to do so...heck, some ppl want to use a PS2 controller with a PS2 to NEO converter if AES is used for the unofficial tourney that will be run...if anything, im thinkin about next year's EVO where all of us SNK's finest have *assuming* 3 VERY STRONG *hopefully tourney playable/friendly* TITLES for EVO 2006 contention in Neogeo Battle Coliseum, Samurai Shodown Tenka, and The King Of Fighters XI...and not just EVO for that matter...we're also talking about other major yearly tournaments such as East Coast Championships in NJ every May *arcade tourney*, Midwest Championships in Chicago every June *also arcade based tourney*, and another one im forgetting about...its really difficult to force anyone to play the exact arcade version of a tourney worthy game, MVC2 included, when there arent as many decent arcades and arcade based players as there are consoles and console based players here in the US of A.

PS The focus is to seriously put SNK on the map in terms of tourney exposure and expanding the SNK fighting game community in the US with EVO being the major splash...even as an unofficial tourney, if we get a decent turnout, SRK will notice for sure and if we keep up that consistency for the year until next summer when tournament season essentially ends & begins, SNK fighters will have a very high probability for being included in tournaments in the near future

VinylBoy
07-26-2005, 08:26 AM
d00d, vinny, you are right on damn near everything...but the fact remains that NeoGeo AES/MVS games are simply not as available for the general public to play in the USA, that is why i think the EVO Organizers decided to use ports because the general public has a PS2 and easier access to DOMESTIC versions of KOF *and soon to be other SNK games* than they do to AES/MVS games

Believe me, I understand why they decided to go in the direction that they went. What I don't understand is how they could say no to the authentic, Neo Geo version especially if there are plenty of people willing to bring in their own MVS & AES setups to play it without costing them anything? We know that most of the ports are "almost identical" to the original hardware, just like MvC2 and TS are "almost identical" to their arcade counterparts. But if a few people right now decided that they wanted to bring in their supergun and/or their arcade setups of Third Strike or MvC2 at no cost, the Evo organizers would be all over it.


...not everyone plays KOF on the standard NEOGEO setup *although i wish they would...* but its simply vastly difficult to do so...heck, some ppl want to use a PS2 controller with a PS2 to NEO converter if AES is used for the unofficial tourney that will be run...

I'm an old-schooler when it comes to tournament play. Games like Sonic The Hedgehog are fine for console tournaments since the games were made for consoles. But fighting games that has an arcade release before the home version (regardless if it's Namco, Capcom or SNK/P) should be played on arcade hardware for that's how the creators of these games intended for them to be played on a serious level. The Neo Geo is the only home system that can boast "arcade exact" titles because it uses the same boards as the MVS. If anything, I would be thinking more on the actual gameplay than the controllers. That's a secondary thought that can easily be fixed. Even using PS2 or another third party controller with a Neo Geo converter would be better than playing a flawed 3rd Party port.


if anything, im thinkin about next year's EVO where all of us SNK's finest have *assuming* 3 VERY STRONG *hopefully tourney playable/friendly* TITLES for EVO 2006 contention in Neogeo Battle Coliseum, Samurai Shodown Tenka, and The King Of Fighters XI...and not just EVO for that matter...we're also talking about other major yearly tournaments such as East Coast Championships in NJ every May *arcade tourney*, Midwest Championships in Chicago every June *also arcade based tourney*, and another one im forgetting about...its really difficult to force anyone to play the exact arcade version of a tourney worthy game, MVC2 included, when there arent as many decent arcades and arcade based players as there are consoles and console based players here in the US of A.

If they did decide to bring in NGBC, SST and KOF X1 it would make sense if they actually got an Atomiswave to play it on. And it isn't impossible if they talk to the right people and make the appropriate deals. Take this very forum for instance. Every connection you need to anyone of these older or newer SNK games can be found on NG.com. Now if they were really in the market to make things interesting, they should work with NG.com in order to make a better gaming experience. And finding a gaming vendor that will allow you to rent a few MvC2 machines for a weekend is not hard to do, unless you're running the tournament in a small motel in Oklahoma located across the street from a cemetary.


PS The focus is to seriously put SNK on the map in terms of tourney exposure and expanding the SNK fighting game community in the US with EVO being the major splash...even as an unofficial tourney, if we get a decent turnout, SRK will notice for sure and if we keep up that consistency for the year until next summer when tournament season essentially ends & begins, SNK fighters will have a very high probability for being included in tournaments in the near future

I agree with that, but the people who throw the Evo Tournament needs to up the ante a bit. If they're willing to open the doors to the SNK/P community, they should be willing to go all the way with it so that serious SNK/P gameplayers can have the proper gaming experience. I own KOF 2002, Third Strike and MvC2 on the Dreamcast and used my 8-button Saturn Controller (w/ converter) to play them. That's good for "practicing at home" with my friends. But come tournament time I would still want to play on arcade exact hardware for that's the way the game is meant to be played.

Dash no Chris
08-02-2005, 12:11 PM
@AKscrube: here's an update on my KOF situation.

At this point, it appears that I will be able to provide 2 AES consoles and 1 copy each of KOF'98 and KOF'02.

I recently acquired a Sega Astro City cab (into which I'm planning to install a 4-slot MVS mobo along with KOF'98 and KOF'02), which I was thinking about trying to bring to EVO as well. Unfortunately, this is looking pretty unlikely. I picked up the cab yesterday, and while its weight isn't a huge deterrent, it's size is: the cab is too big to fit thru my gameroom door, so I had to disassemble it in order to move it in, then reassemble it in the gameroom. I'd really like to bring it to EVO (just to add more fuel to the fire of the NEO furor we hope to stoke there), but the disassembly/reassembly process is not a simple one, and the thought of taking it apart and putting it back together two more times (once when leaving the house, once upon returning) really gives me pause.

I'm working on being able to bring KOF'02 on my PS2, Xbox, and DC, tho'.

How many AES units does it look like we'll have so far?

--Chris

taitai
08-02-2005, 04:09 PM
Las Vegas has quite a few arcades with a selection of good machines. Why
not rent one of those places for 2-3 days? Plus, changing buttons and joysticks
on a cabinet doesn't take hrs, it takes probably about 10 mins, unless it's
soldered, which is not the case with most cabs.

Pardon my laugh but...


HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Vegas' arcade selection sucks these days. The only NeoWave in town is in some run down shack of a place called VideoRepair. Much less trying to track down a collection of decent Cap vs SNK2 cabs.


@AKscrube: here's an update on my KOF situation.

At this point, it appears that I will be able to provide 2 AES consoles and 1 copy each of KOF'98 and KOF'02.

I recently acquired a Sega Astro City cab (into which I'm planning to install a 4-slot MVS mobo along with KOF'98 and KOF'02), which I was thinking about trying to bring to EVO as well. Unfortunately, this is looking pretty unlikely. I picked up the cab yesterday, and while its weight isn't a huge deterrent, it's size is: the cab is too big to fit thru my gameroom door, so I had to disassemble it in order to move it in, then reassemble it in the gameroom. I'd really like to bring it to EVO (just to add more fuel to the fire of the NEO furor we hope to stoke there), but the disassembly/reassembly process is not a simple one, and the thought of taking it apart and putting it back together two more times (once when leaving the house, once upon returning) really gives me pause.
--Chris


If you're willing to let me install your control panel for the weekend into my cab, I can provide my cab, and even my 3 slotter.

(4slot with a dead slot.)

(worse comes to wose, if someone has 2 MAS Neo sticks, we can just plug 'em into the controller sockets.)

AKscrube
08-03-2005, 01:13 AM
im wanting to get a 98 cart myself but im plannin on goin on next Monday or Tuesday to Vegas so i dunno...maybe if i order it and have it shipped somewhere else?

Decepticreep
08-03-2005, 08:30 AM
I do know the cost of shipment of a cab, I own 3 myself.
I know that SRK can't, and does not have the ability of getting a
console tourney together (At least well organized), and let's not even
talk about an arcade one.

Las Vegas has quite a few arcades with a selection of good machines. Why
not rent one of those places for 2-3 days? Plus, changing buttons and joysticks
on a cabinet doesn't take hrs, it takes probably about 10 mins, unless it's
soldered, which is not the case with most cabs.

In the end, an arcade only tourney will not happen, I guess we're all
dreaming.
las vegas has shit for arcades anymore. if they had arcade's at evo, i'd lend mine out, but they dont. and im not going to risk my aes getting jacked up by assholes, hence im not going either.

taitai
08-04-2005, 05:13 PM
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96658

Mr. Wiz has nixed the idea of having a caba t the BYOC

Oh well.

Empyrian
08-04-2005, 11:16 PM
I had always gotten the feeling that US gamers looked down on SNK games.

Even those that do play SNK games over there are usually slanted to the casual to scrub levels.

I may be mistaken though...

VinylBoy: There is an implicit meaning from your posts that MvC2 and 3S are being touted as being great or being extremely popular, in part of them being good games, is that US gamers managed to get some sort of results with them with they played with top players from other regions/countries?

Is it true? Can I quote you on this next time?

bloodriot
08-05-2005, 04:10 AM
So I suppose the "unoffical kof tourney" will be next to the toilets or something eh? :kekeke: So much damn politics feh hopefully ngbc, kofxi and ssv vex#r alpha may change this next year :crying: or not

AKscrube
08-05-2005, 05:27 AM
as long as here in the us there is a large enough player bases/community, all of those 3 games are on a console thats accessible to the general public, possibly have domestic releases here in the US, and have been proven to be tournament playable/friendly Evo2006 SHOULD have all of these games in the lineup...as for arcade versions...well, i think all of us will be surprised coming March/April of 2006...in a good way

AKscrube
08-05-2005, 03:25 PM
BAM!

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2551342#post2551342

Dash no Chris
08-07-2005, 12:46 PM
BAM!

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2551342#post2551342
If all goes according to plan, here's what I'll be bringing for the KOF'02 tourney:

1x...Dreamcast (JPN)
1x...KOF'02 (JPN)
1x...DC Pad
2x...DC Agetec Joystick

1x...PlayStation 2 (JPN)
2x...PS2 Pads
1x...NEO-GEO Pad 2
1x...NEO-GEO Stick 2

1x...Xbox (JPN)
1x...KOF'02 (JPN)

2x...NEO-GEO AES (JPN)
2x...NEO-GEO Pad
2x...NEO-GEO Stick
2x...NEO-GEO Controller Pro
1x...KOF'02

2x...Pelican Real Arcade Universal joystick (upgraded to HAPPS' Competition Joysticks and Pushbuttons) -- for use on PS2 & Xbox

I've got Garou MARK OF THE WOLVES on DC and PS2 (w/the NEO-GEO Stick 2), in case those are needed for the Garou tournament.

I've also got other KOF titles available, in case we want to play something in addition to KOF'02:

'94...AES, PS2
'95...AES
'96...AES
'97...AES
'98...AES, DC
'99...AES, DC
'00...AES, DC, PS2
'01...AES, DC
'02...AES, DC, Xbox
'03...AES, PS2

And some other NEO titles:

Garou Densetsu / Fatal Fury -- AES (1, 2, Special, 3)
Gekka no Kenshi / Last Blade -- DC
KOF Maximum Impact -- PS2
Ryuuko no Ken / Art of Fighting -- AES (1, 2)
Samurai Spirits / Samurai Shodown -- AES (1, 2, 3, 5), PS2 (5)
Shin Gouketsuji Ichizoku ~MATRIMELEE~ -- AES

Note that, while I don't own KOF'02 for PS2 yet, my PS2 could be made available if we had an extra import edition of PS2 KOF'02 without a console to run it.

The Pelican Universal sticks are being modded this week.

All of the items marked in boldface italics are not in my possesion quite yet, but should be arriving within the next few days. I'll update as they do.

--Chris

AKscrube
08-07-2005, 01:02 PM
as i said in SRK, you're a Godsend...

Remy
08-09-2005, 09:37 PM
Everytime Evo rolls around you guys expect the capcom community to host your games for you. It would be a waste of time becuase you guys wouldn't even support your nonexistant scene. Worrying about boxart and Iori's sprite is more of a priority for your community than actually travelling to a tournament to compete. Why don't you guys hold your own tournaments and not cry to Evo to host your fucking games? Oh wait it's been done before with FierceSlash and no one gave a fuck. See you guys at Evo to play your shitty games at the BYOC room :make_fac:

Kusanagi-sama'
08-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Everytime Evo rolls around you guys expect the capcom community to host your games for you. It would be a waste of time becuase you guys wouldn't even support your nonexistant scene. Worrying about boxart and Iori's sprite is more of a priority for your community than actually travelling to a tournament to compete. Why don't you guys hold your own tournaments and not cry to Evo to host your fucking games? Oh wait it's been done before with FierceSlash and no one gave a fuck. See you guys at Evo to play your shitty games at the BYOC room :make_fac:

Go back to SRK...fanboy.

Mark of the Wolves
08-09-2005, 09:59 PM
.

Remy
08-09-2005, 10:08 PM
What's sadder is expecting SRK to spend money to rent MVS cabines for a 3 man SNK tournament. Yeah I too want want SNK games, that have no competitve scene in the US, to suddenly have it's own tournament at Evo. Get the fuck outta here :lol:

Mark of the Wolves
08-09-2005, 10:15 PM
.

AKscrube
08-09-2005, 10:33 PM
we dont need this garbage in this thread

Dash no Chris
08-09-2005, 10:46 PM
See you guys at Evo to play your shitty games at the BYOC room :make_fac:
Actually, I hope you do drop by the KOF'02 tourney and the other NEO games in the BYOC area -- if you haven't had much opportunity to try out the NEO library, this might be your chance to find something you like. Better still, you get the chance to meet some folks who're genuinely exited about this stuff. I've been a NEO fan since the early '90s, but I didn't start actively collecting the games until about 4 years ago when I happened to meet a few diehard fans who pointed out this forum community to me. I find that it's much easier to get excited about something if you're in the company of those who're already worked up about it.

--Chris

AKscrube
08-09-2005, 10:49 PM
good post...very good post...

p.s. can i possibly bunk with anyone for EVO?

taitai
08-09-2005, 11:24 PM
Everytime Evo rolls around you guys expect the capcom community to host your games for you. It would be a waste of time becuase you guys wouldn't even support your nonexistant scene. Worrying about boxart and Iori's sprite is more of a priority for your community than actually travelling to a tournament to compete. Why don't you guys hold your own tournaments and not cry to Evo to host your fucking games? Oh wait it's been done before with FierceSlash and no one gave a fuck.

You have a good point. I love my neo, but you've basically highlighted a problem with the Neo community. The Capcom community tends to be more gameplay oriented, but that's probably because you can still find an MvC2 cab in an arcade. Which probably comes from the fact that neo cabs tended to be shoved into a corner in a broken up crappy big red, never intended by any of the staff to be taken seriously(I like the big red, but, I'd rather see a neo in a candy cab or one of those impressive looking dynamo cabs, or a megalo).

Of course, this is for another thread entirely.


See you guys at Evo to play your shitty games at the BYOC room :make_fac:

Them's fighting words. Too bad I'm lazy.

You made a really insightful observation, too bad you're a total ass.


What's sadder is expecting SRK to spend money to rent MVS cabines for a 3 man SNK tournament. Yeah I too want want SNK games, that have no competitve scene in the US, to suddenly have it's own tournament at Evo. Get the fuck outta here :lol:

What's sadder is that the neo community came out and voted for KOF2k2 and got more votes than Alpha3, which DOES have a competetive scene in the US. I guess Jim Ramirez, ex-GM of the South West for Namco's right, fighting game fans are broke and flaky.

What pisses ME off is that I'm willing to donate my cab to the volunteer tournment. and the SRK/Evo staff thinks it's a bad idea to have cabs around. :angry: