another nbc loke test (2-8 july)

beelzebubble

Knar Sdrawkcab, !t00w
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only in (fucking) tokyo! club sega shinjuku and chiba to be exact...

apparently they are testing income making capacity and the online capabilities again...

man why they not doing one in osaka.. especially with my long weekend.....

:(
 

Akihabara

Krauser's Shoe Shiner
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I'll be there for yooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

I don't understand why the pick Club Sega Shinjuku, I don't like that place.
Anyway, I'll check it out on monday muahahahahahaha
 

beelzebubble

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Akihabara said:
I'll be there for yooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

I don't understand why the pick Club Sega Shinjuku, I don't like that place.
Anyway, I'll check it out on monday muahahahahahaha

your the man, even though im not sure who you are :)

give the "just defend" double tap step a try... the one described in the latest arcadia!
 

Lyte Edge

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How many months has this game been testing? Could be a new record. :)
 

SoloFenris

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Tangy. I missed out on the other tests like SS0. Let`s see if I can make it to this one.

Jeff
 

Orochi Iori Y

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Lyte Edge said:
How many months has this game been testing? Could be a new record. :)

Glad to see that they are taking their time in the testing... hopefully this means that the game will play as god as it looks. :mr_t:
 

roker

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Abster said:
Why don't we ever get to do these in the states?

a few reasons:

a) proximity to the company, since this game is developed in Japan, it's easier for them to test the waters in their backyard, then to set one up far from them

b) as bad as arcades are in Japan, they're even worse in the US

c) SNK has a bigger fanbase in Japan, there are a lot people in the US that barely know anything about SNK outside of Samurai Shodown
 
Last edited:

roker

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Abster said:
Well, I had heard SVC Chaos got a loke test here once.

obviously nothing came from that as it still was a broken game
 

SouthtownKid

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Abster said:
Well, I had heard SVC Chaos got a loke test here once.
They do occasionally do stuff here, like what they did with SVC and KOF '03, but I wouldn't exactly call it a loke test, I guess. More like an advance screening or something.

I went to the KOF '03 one in so cal, and got to try the game early, but it's not like they could have made any changes to the game based on comments made by the people who attended.

Firstly, SNK USA wouldn't have been capable of, or have the authority to make changes. Secondly, there wasn't nearly enough time from the "loke test" until the actual release, to do anything anyway.
 

Alex0916

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This game should be shaped up real nice considering the amount of loke tests it's been through.
 

Superfamifreak

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Alex0916 said:
This game should be shaped up real nice considering the amount of loke tests it's been through.

Exactly, the more time they take on it, the better it should be.After all, the input is coming from the people who will be playingthe final version.
 

Akihabara

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roker, you say arcades are bad in Japan?

I see you have never been to Japan.....
 

DevilRedeemed

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Akihabara said:
roker, you say arcades are bad in Japan?

I see you have never been to Japan.....

erm... no. its common knowledge that traditional arcades that house video game cabinets are dying out in Japan and have been dying out for a few years now.
why do you think Capcom have all but given up on making arcade games - as have alot of other companies - and those that stick it out are doing so on a limited budget with varying results.
I was there a couple of years ago. loved the arcades, but the games available are mostly older since there isn't exactly a tsumani of brand new games flooding the scene.
 

roker

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DevilRedeemed said:
erm... no. its common knowledge that traditional arcades that house video game cabinets are dying out in Japan and have been dying out for a few years now.
why do you think Capcom have all but given up on making arcade games - as have alot of other companies - and those that stick it out are doing so on a limited budget with varying results.
I was there a couple of years ago. loved the arcades, but the games available are mostly older since there isn't exactly a tsumani of brand new games flooding the scene.


I was going to dig through and make this fancy post with links and shit, but this chachi fucked it up for me

so I resign
 

beelzebubble

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japanese arcades rock, hard!

they do however suck compared to 5 years ago. not in whats inside them so much as the fact there are far less of them and they dont have as many patrons.

they are however still cheap, have lots of comp, well maintained, etc.
 

DevilRedeemed

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roker said:
chachi fucked it up for me

finalfightgif1.gif
finalfightgif2.gif
 

Akihabara

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Actually in the last 2 years 3 new arcades have been opened in Akihabara.
I am not even talking about the new ones in Shinjuku etc. so please if you have not been to Japan do not try to convince me in what kind of situation Japanese arcade is right now.

Every time I go to the arcade there are a lot of people, a lot of new games (especially 2d shooters and also fighters) and a great mix of old ones.
All on new sitdown cabs like Atomiswave cab, Egret 3 etc. so I think the arcade in Japan is more making a comeback then dying.
A lot of people just always talk negative about arcade, but real knowlegde they lack.
 

Frankfurt

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Akihabara said:
Actually in the last 2 years 3 new arcades have been opened in Akihabara.
I am not even talking about the new ones in Shinjuku etc. so please if you have not been to Japan do not try to convince me in what kind of situation Japanese arcade is right now.

Every time I go to the arcade there are a lot of people, a lot of new games (especially 2d shooters and also fighters) and a great mix of old ones.
All on new sitdown cabs like Atomiswave cab, Egret 3 etc. so I think the arcade in Japan is more making a comeback then dying.
A lot of people just always talk negative about arcade, but real knowlegde they lack.

Sega, Sammy, SNK all said themselves arcades are in bad shape. Check the Kikizo interview with SNKP - Morishita sure knows much more than a guy in a forum (a guy that goes to a handful of arcades).

Kikizo: Although gambling, prize and pachinko seem to make loads of money, traditional game arcade amusements are still finding it tougher than ever to compete. How will the arcade scene survive?

Morishita: It is very difficult to survive in the arcade business, not only for SNK, a lot of arcade manufacturers are giving up on releasing games for the arcade. It's why we're starting to get more involved in the consumer [console] business now as well. But we'll continue to release games for the arcade as long as there is demand in the market - but at the same time, we understand that if there is no more demand or if it is no longer profitable, then we will have to change our concept again.


Kikizo: So will the arcade gaming industry keep going down or get better?

Morishita: In my opinion I think it will continue to get more difficult. There are not enough new manufacturers releasing new games any more. I don't think many customers in Japan want to spend their money on games as much as prize machines for example, and so it is tough for manufacturers to invest in the arcade games. Maybe ten years ago people might have gone to arcades to entertain themselves but people have a lot of entertainment options now even on their mobile phone. Plus online gaming is a big reason.

Kikizo: I find it amazing that this is the situation when you consider that many arcades in Japan are absolutely full of gamers, playing on every single machine! The arcades there seem far more popular than in Europe or in the States...

Morishita: But still a lot of those customers are attracted by the prize machines and so on. Manufacturers recognise this, which is why they are changing concepts and installing not so many arcade cabinets and more prize machines, to continue to operate, and I believe this will be similar in the overseas markets.

http://games.kikizo.com/features/snk_interview_sep04.asp

Akihabara = Owned.

P.S: beelzebubble lives in Japan too, dude.
 

SoloFenris

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I just moved to Tokyo so I haven`t been to a lot of arcades here yet but that article describes the arcades in Yokohama perfectly. In a lot of arcades there were very few actual sit down machines except for Gundam and fighters. All the other machines were those card games like D`s Quest, Sangokushi, and that soccer card game. There were a few retro games and shooters but they were always open. Even Raiden III hardly had any takers. But, if you go to arcades that have a lot of 50yen games then it is completely different. I have to get around here in Tokyo some more and check things out.

Jeff
 

DevilRedeemed

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Akihabara:
please read the following and then quietly walk away:


Japan’s once-great arcades have shrunk to the periphery of the current videogame scene, and a stagnating home console market troubles the largest of its developers. Yet amid these adverse conditions, some Japanese studios exist on a handful of staff, stubbornly working towards the dream arcade shooters that first inspired them to enter the industry.
What keeps these companies driven when the supposedly low-end arcade boards are overpriced, the Japanese gaming market is in crisis, and the worldwide industry is pushing towards ever-larger costs and ever-fewer innovations? We visited three small developers – G.rev, Milestone and Triangle Service – and interviewed them to find out…



G.Rev

The company behind Border Down and Senko No Ronde was founded in May 2000. It now has eight full-time staffers: three newcomers and five ex-Taito employees previously from the
G Darius and Ray Storm/Ray Force teams. We spoke to president Hiroyuki Maruyama.

Why did you leave Taito?

The company decided to leave the arcade market, apart from big cabinet systems such as driving games. We understood the reasoning behind the decision, but we had joined Taito to create arcade videogames and we assumed the company would come back to the arcade videogame market a couple of years later. After more than a year working on games for the PlayStation we started to realise Taito’s return to the arcade videogame scene would never happen. So our conception and will to create videogames clearly differed from Taito’s direction.

Was it a big risk to form a small developer in a shrinking market?

You know, we didn’t feel that risk, although making the company was a painful learning process. It took three years to deliver our first shooter, Border Down, in 2003. It wasn’t our first arcade title: we made a puzzle game for just ¥3m (£15,100). But Border Down was truly our first step in the arena. We saved money by getting jobs from Sega and Treasure [G.rev developed the 3D engine for Ikaruga] and when we had enough, we did Border Down. That’s our approach. When we spoke about our game to Sega, it provided the technical support and boards at a low price so we could start work, but we financed it with our own money. It took around nine months to develop the game. We are known for learning and developing quickly: our latest game, Senko No Ronde, took just a year.

Do you think the introduction of the low-end arcade boards such as Type X and Atomiswave will have a positive effect on the arcades?

Low-end boards alone cannot achieve that. As the number of arcades in Japan decreases, the cost per board produced increases, lowering the prospective profits. The result is that arcade games aren’t selling. With this in mind, we decided to release our latest title at a very low price – we love the arcade and want it to survive, so we wanted Senko to sell at ¥110,000 (£554) like Border Down. But Senko is a very original title that’s seen as a risk by operators, who are consequently reluctant to order it. We had to increase the price to ¥150,000 (£755), to cover our costs. If original games could be sold at ¥110,000, I think we’d have a viable and dynamic arcade market.

The Type X is really too expensive – about ¥300,000 (£1,510) – and there are too many versions of it. As an interchangeable PC, it lacks the standardisation of boards like the Naomi. On the other hand, the Atomiswave is very cheap and its performance is not that far from the Naomi. It should have been a great option for developers, but in reality it’s had a hard time sticking to its promises and Sammy hasn’t delivered a strategy. The Naomi is still the best option, although Sega isn’t pushing it. But, since there’s a large base installed in the country, there’s still a lot of room for third parties like us.

How much of an issue is money?

Of course it’s an issue, but if you are patient you can avoid it becoming a big issue. If you want to do everything quickly, you have to find a way to get as much money as possible in the shortest time. This means taking terrible risks, possibly getting into bad deals that would endanger the company in the future. I prefer to take my time and save enough money to make my original games. Even if I have to wait ten years, that would be OK, because I’d still get to make my game. If you think in the long term, the financial issue disappears: imagine a three-year cycle in which one would be used to develop your game and the other two to save for the next title.

The GDC keynotes this year were very different: J Allard’s vision of larger teams for Xbox 360 titles and Satoru Iwata’s commitment to small teams with ingenious ideas. What’s your take on it?

Both visions are right. It’s natural that big companies will go to bigger projects, and Nintendo’s vision corresponds very much to the way it has seen videogames for years. Both have their audiences, and if you consider Nintendo and Microsoft’s visions as the minimum and the maximum, then we will have to find our way in the middle of this. It’s not about a choice; there are many graduations in between.

Microsoft is really trying to appeal to many in Japan, and we have been told it would do its best to give us the best environment possible. But to be honest, since the PlayStation2 is already testing our limits, imagining the world beyond is unrealistic. It’s more than just a technical issue; it’s a financial barrier. The next generation of consoles will provoke an even bigger shrink in the number of developers, and I think Nintendo is focused on this particular aspect with its next machine. Sony’s vision is not yet clear, but Microsoft is already thinking post-PlayStation era with its new Xbox.
If these three manufacturers offer three different choices, it’s easier for us to choose our next step. If they all offered the same, we would be in big trouble, as would the whole industry!

The fun of a videogame is not based on the size of the developer, or the amount of money invested in the project. I really believe we still can provide a lot of fun even with lower-cost games. But I never trust what manufacturers tell developers when they launch a new console. As a company, we will wait and see.

Many of the larger Japanese publishers feel the need to ‘westernise’ their games to sell outside the Japanese market. Does this affect smaller developers like G.rev?

In the past, we never considered our development as ‘for Japan’ or ‘for overseas’. We just had the simple idea of making something fun. This hasn’t disappeared, but it has been replaced by the concept of ‘business’. I don’t think creators in Japan are motivated to make games for the US because it’s the biggest market. It doesn’t work like that. People in big companies make games the company feels are needed to support its growth and because overseas markets offer the best prospects, they move toward these markets.

If someone in these major companies feels the need to make his or her own game – well, they quit. Why are videogames not selling as well as they did before? People are just bored. The boom is over. There are still many who enjoy playing videogames, but it’s not the only form of entertainment. Companies who had spectacular growth during the boom now find themselves oversized in today’s market.

Have you considered developing for the DS or PSP?

Many present the DS as the platform of ideas, of concepts, but the use of specific features like the touch panel actually limits your freedom to create. Of course, if a game makes natural and fun use of these features, I see a lot of potential; but if you don’t use the pen and the double screens, your game is meaningless on the DS. Forcing you to use these features confines you in a very narrow environment, so I’m a little afraid about the machine’s future.

The PSP is just a PlayStation with a beautiful screen. I don’t see any merit in that. Of course there are a few interesting titles like this use of cards in Metal Gear Acid, but so what? Why should I develop or play on the PSP? For its wireless features? If the wireless network becomes global and easily accessible, then I see the potential for very interesting developments, but currently the PSP is less of a console and more of a business move from Sony – for itself, and against Nintendo. As a game console, I don’t see its merit.

How do you see the future for your own company?

I think a lot about the future, probably because at G.rev we have this habit of planning our projects in longer cycles than others. But in the future, I expect that our offices will be cleaner – that will be the only difference. I don’t see bigger changes, expect maybe the size of my staff going up to a total of around 20 people. We will continue to make the games we want to do.

I don’t see the arcade itself changing very much, except in physical size as cabinets get smaller.
I think games will be broadcast in realtime via satellite to specially equipped cabinets, based on PCs. In the meantime, the business model will evolve accordingly, and I will try to anticipate these changes.
 

DevilRedeemed

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continued-

Milestone

After the collapse of puzzle/RPG developer Compile, six staffers who had remained until its dying gasp and three who had left earlier regrouped to form Milestone. We spoke to president Hiroshi Kimura as the developer of Chaos Field continued work on its striking flat-shaded arcade shooter Rajirugi.

What brought you back together at Milestone after Compile?

I was 36 when I decided to make this company. My wife and her parents were pushing me to look for a good job in a major company, and I was aware that this would be the last time I would really have the choice of what to do next. I realised that what had attracted me to Compile had been shooting games; many of us had joined Compile to develop them, but the company was only interested in Puyo Puyo, so we didn’t really have the chance to fulfil our dream. When the Compile adventure ended, we had the – perhaps naïve – idea of making a game ourselves and trying to sell it to a publisher.

What would you advise someone with that same aspiration?

Well, making games is nothing simple, especially for a small company. You can’t just start up and develop a game in the hopes of revolutionising the industry. Experience is everything. Every member of my company has to handle many tasks, and I think it is the same with many companies similar to ours. In Milestone, we have a policy of self-motivation: staff come to me and explain what they want to do and why. We also have to deliver tons of work for other companies, so you need to anticipate trouble. When a programmer tells me he will be finished in five months, I usually add two more for delays.

You also need to know the market. When there was no other form of entertainment other than the Famicom – I mean, you could play in the garden, but the Famicom was certainly the coolest thing in town – the hunger for videogames was strong. People like [Chunsoft president] Koichi Nakamura could make their own game with limited resources, alone. Now that’s almost impossible, because we’re losing money to competing forms of entertainment. It’s not that you can’t make a game without money, but it would be a very demanding process. You would need to save a lot of money to finance your project and you wouldn’t eat much! But it’s a process that people will support you through.

What have the challenges been with running a small development studio?
Our everyday challenges are no different to a large company. But, obviously, from a financial point of view, the conditions are not the same. When your project takes more time than originally thought – which is not unusual – well, you have to move quickly when you are a small company. Because you are paid following deadlines, you need to fill any financial gaps quickly in case of delays, and that can be very challenging. But the reward is that we have control over our work and direction. We don’t have an old guy from the top making decisions about things he mostly doesn’t understand or has no interest in. Because of our size we can make games that go against current trends; they’re not just about the amount of polygons and effects. If we had a much bigger team, we’d have to integrate everyone’s opinion into the game and lose its core idea as a result. In many ways, larger teams are an obstacle to a game’s vision.

So, do you not intend to take on more staff in the future?

As CEO I look after my staff as well as looking after the company. In this function alone, the current number is the maximum for me. I couldn’t care for them with the same attention if we had more staff. I imagine that if we were to grow, we could have a kind of pyramid structure, with new people under every staffer in today’s Milestone. But we are still far from that stage: we have been on the market for only two years, and we’re far from being out of the woods yet. I guess we will have to keep our current size for some time and make the best of it.

How tight are you finding the financial conditions?

We were able to live off our work at the end of Milestone’s first year. With Chaos Field, our publisher was financing it to deadlines so we knew we had money coming in on these given dates. But I’ve never felt comfortable depending on only one project, especially when it is original, so I tried to develop a side business for us, fulfilling tasks for other companies. One of our strong points is our low cost to perform demanding tasks, compared to the costs major companies would have to face with in-house development. So, handling both, we were able to survive and develop. Making only original titles is too hard and too risky; if we had we based the future of our company on the development of a single original project, I think we would have failed during that first year.

What has kept you involved with the arcade gaming scene?

Firstly, it’s the simplicity. You don’t sell a product costing ¥6,800 (£34); it is just ¥100 (50p) and your challenge is only about the coin the player can choose to put into your cabinet – or not. There is also this spontaneous feedback, and a certain sense that you are making an experiment: when you put your game out on location test, you find out immediately what is wrong with it and can tune it accordingly in realtime. These are very rewarding experiences – at least, they are for us.

Will the introduction of low-end arcade boards such as Type X and Atomiswave have a positive effect?

Well, I don’t think they are that affordable, actually. The Atomiswave, maybe, but the Type X is not. You need around ¥190,000 (£955) for the board and a game costs at least ¥120,000 (£600). The main advantage with the Type X is the use of Windows as an interface; developers are used to the PC so this allows them to keep development costs down. But I’m not sure that lowering the costs of boards alone will ensure the arcade’s revival. You have to think about the operators who buy these systems.

Because the videogame has had so little attention in the arcade market recently, its sudden revival through these boards is important and I would like operators to be able to choose between a variety of titles. However, we have to be realistic. We’ll never go back to that golden age when every game in the arcade was a videogame, before 3D fighting games arrived. But I would like to see diversity in the arcades again, with videogames alongside other titles like Purikura [‘print club’ photo booths], 3D fighters or network games. The problem with videogames in the arcade today is their lack of identity: operators don’t feel a need to have them represented in their arcades. Videogames need to become desired, so operators would want to choose between games like [Cave’s] Ibara or our Rajirugi. That would be a revival for arcade videogames.

As for developing for home consoles, what’s your opinion of the visions of J Allard and Satoru Iwata at GDC – larger teams for larger games, or small teams with fresh ideas?

Both make sense, and both would appeal to members of my staff, but platforms like PlayStation3 will be out of our reach for some time. We will stick with the PlayStation2, GameCube and mobile phones for a little longer, even when the next-generation consoles arrive. But if one of my staff were to say tomorrow that he or she is really determined to develop on PlayStation3, we would call for outside help. In Japan, companies like us are used to interacting, so Milestone would find the financial resources while other companies would provide the workforce.

What about opportunities presented by the new handhelds – the DS and PSP?

Again, I have no preference. It is like the new Xbox and Revolution: you develop for one or the other according to your idea of the moment. But we are developing mainly vertical shooters and neither the DS nor the PSP is particularly comfortable for this type of game. We need to go for new challenges to develop on these new portables.

What do you think the future holds for Milestone?

Whether you’re a small company or a big one, we’re all concerned by how many copies our games will sell. However, I see no point for a company like mine to compete against larger publishers in generic markets like driving, RPG, and so on. I would like to be able to continue to develop original titles in markets where the larger companies have no interest, where they consider the prospect of profitability is not high enough. Call them niche markets if you want, but it depends on your perspective – the notion of a ‘market’ is really relative. I’m sure that for big companies the RPG is seen as the main market in Japan but obviously it is not for us. Our main market is located between the big ones.

http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2005/06/the_small_guns.php
 
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