After 12 years, I've decided to try a Mac (a minor rant + few questions)

The Past (the road to changing sides)

My original "computer" (as such) was a C64 back in '86 which I loved to death but only used for all the hacked games my friend would get for me. After that I was strictly into console gaming until I finally got a new computer in 1993, a nice Gateway 2000 desktop that lasted me pretty well. Back then I still thought of it as IBM/Mac not PC/Mac (I took a basic DOS course in '92). I went with another Gateway desktop in 1997 which also handled my needs along with a free e-Machine I picked up in 2000 (free, so don't give me shit for buying one). In undergrad I taught myself how to basically use a Mac because I didn't have to wait to use one. Over the years I'd had different problems with the PCs but nothing exceptional (some a bigger pain the ass than others... I still shiver at the problems upgrading to DOS 6.0) so I kept buying them pretty loyally. When I went off to grad school I decided to finally purchase a laptop because everyone here uses them for lecture notes and stuff, so I decided to go with a decked out Dell Inspiron 8200.

When I buy computers I tend to buy enough horsepower to at least work for 3-5 years, so this Dell was upgraded a reasonable amount. It was great for the first 2 years, then the whole thing fell to shit. The problem ended up being with every piece of physical hardware in the unit. Among the litany of problems started to happen (and I did not in any way abuse this thing): the screen was damaged by the keyboard because it wasn't assembled right, the hard drive failed, the CD-DVDR drive failed, the motherboard failed, no less than 3 AC adapters had the cord wear out.

Thankfully I ordered a 3 years of Dell coverage so all of it didn't charge me, but the Tech Support at Dell is complete crap. I'm not complaining that they're located in India and the Phillipines (as we waited during the numerous times they asked me to reinstall windows I've spoken with them about their home countries to pass time), I'm complaining about the dumbass procedures they used where one person would hear your problem and transfer you to another who would have no idea what the first person had been told. Other times they'd ask you to do something and call back only to get a new person who would still ask you to o the same things. Before I go on I'll say that I'm immensely patient on the phone because I figure getting pissed won't help the situation, but my god was it hard not to yell -its not that the individuals were stupid (although they certainly weren't tech gurus past whatever was written on their screen), but the whole process was like something out of Brazil. The wait time to even speak to one of their lackeys often took a long time as well. From what I understand, they're supposed to see how many self help options they can tell you over the phone before you incur the additional cost (on them) of having them service it. Finally I had them send me new parts, then when the motherboard went bad they had a tech come and fix it at my apartment (which didn't work). After that I actually sent the thing directly to Dell and they still returned it in half-assed not-totally-fixed (i.e. all online capabilities no longer work) shape. Because this series of problems began before my exams last fall I had to switch from typing exams to handwriting (which sucks when you all of a sudden have to write for 4 hour blocks having not handwritten anything substantial in 5 years).

So I finally said "fuck it". I keep my Dell basically operational in its current offline form (word processing, photo editting, etc) but have been doing my online work elsewhere for the past 7 months. Now that I need a computer for work I've decided to use my Dell experience to spur a jump to Mac (another factor is I've been wanting to do some video editting and most people in that field use Macs).

Over the years I'd stopped using my computer for any of my games (save for Civ3 which I had to uninstall to keep myself focused on school), so that factor was not an issue.

[the moral of this section is to not buy Dell]

The Present (my new baby)

My needs were simple: For my job I needed a computer that's portable (though doesn't need to be tiny) but for my personal uses able to handle intensive film editting programs and be portable. So I went with a nice 17-inch PowerBook (which I got at a discount by using my soon-to-expire University account at the Apple Online Store).

Here are the specs:

17-inch TFT Display
1440x900 resolution
1.67GHz PowerPC G4
1G DDR333 SDRAM - 2 SO-DIMMs
100GB Hard Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon
9700 (128 MB DDR)
Backlit keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
Digital/analog audio
DVI & S-Video out
Dual link DVI

I assume this will be a solid computer for at least 5 years of office-type work, video editting, and online use.

The Future (questions)

I know some stuff about Macs from reading posts here over the years, talking to Mac users (nruva and bokmeow helped me out) and other areas -but now that I'm actually going to be dealing with this Mac I have some initial questions to confirm some things I've heard along with an open request for any information other Mac users would offer:

(1) I no longer need spyware blockers, correct? I was very good about this over the past several years on my PC, but I heard Macs don't have this problem.

(2) Are virii also not a problem? If not, what should I get?

(3) What are good websites for basic info and other questions?

(4) Anyone have any good laptop cases to recommend (the one I'm using now needs to be replaced because it's too damn heavy and I've had it for years).

(5) anything else a beginning Mac user should know?

Thanks in advance.

They're going to announce vastly more powerful G5 based PowerBooks next week...

So you picked a BAD time to get a G4 based book.

I also find the 17-inch ones unweildy and way too large.

You'd be MUCH better off picking up the moderately sized 15-inch book which is far, far, lighter.

I like my powerbook, but you eventually get frustrated by the lack of decent applications available for OSX.

Need a good newsreader? you get poorly designed bunk
The same goes for FTP clients, Video Playback, and too many other things to list.

The reality of the situation is that while you might have 20-30 applications to chose from to perform a single task on the windows platform, you might only have 2 or 3 available for OSX (if you're lucky) and if they arent designed by apple most of them SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!.

MS Office for OSX is even more bloated and slow than it is in Windows.
Open Office for OSX isnt even really usable.

Those are just some of the reasons that I'm going to ditch my 15 inch PowerBook as soon as possible and grab something windows based like a Panasonic Toughbook.

Thanks for the honest response, you brought up several issues that I did consider:

I debated about the screen (or better put "overall size") issue but I've learned over the years that I really don't care how big it is so long as its portable.

As for the G5 debut, I'll wait and see -I won't kick myself if they come out next month, but I've heard the wait may be in vain. If it does come out and the price for my computer drops by $1k, then I'll be furious.

As for the rest of the stuff you said, I'm not that much of a computer geek so I don't really care what the "newsreader" does I haven't used an FTP since my undergrad days (no real purpose anymore).

The applicatation issue was certainly a concern, but since I only practically use Office, photoshop, and a handful of other tried-and-true products I decided I'll probably not have a problem. I am familiar with the slightly slower times on Office, but it probably won't bug me since its not a game.

Bobak said:

Thanks for the honest response, you brought up several issues that I did consider:

I debated about the screen (or better put "overall size") issue but I've learned over the years that I really don't care how big it is so long as its portable.

As for the G5 debut, I'll wait and see -I won't kick myself if they come out next month, but I've heard the wait may be in vain. If it does come out and the price for my computer drops by $1k, then I'll be furious.

As for the rest of the stuff you said, I'm not that much of a computer geek so I don't really care what the "newsreader" does I haven't used an FTP since my undergrad days (no real purpose anymore).

The applicatation issue was certainly a concern, but since I only practically use Office, photoshop, and a handful of other tried-and-true products I decided I'll probably not have a problem. I am familiar with the slightly slower times on Office, but it probably won't bug me since its not a game.

Click to expand...

What about the issue of WordPerfect 12 being the dominant office suite among legal professionals? I mean if you get a document from a co-worker at some point, you will have to deal with the reality it will be in an incompatable file format and could be an extra hurdle to jump around in an office enviornment. I mean you can always beg them to save and send their documents in RTF, but it might be a somewhat inefficient way of doing things if you want a synergistic office enviornment.

I'm typing this from a PowerBook...I've been stuck using this machine almost exlcusively for a month and in concert with my now out of commision windows desktop for about a year. I'm just honestly trying to tell you about what you *may* be getting into as it does become a frustrating experience in some respects, especially the loss of flexability when compared to the windows platform.

As for anti-virus.

There are some good points about the mac platform being you dont really have to worry about viruses or worms and the mac does come with a pretty secure built-in firewall, the airport software is as seemless as it comes.

Overrall PowerBooks are nice but not without serious issues.

Edit: MacMall.com for a ton of third party mac stuff.

I would get a case through Apple or wherever you'll find one that will fit such a large book.

Watch out for faulty batteries or any splotches turning up on the laptop screen (common issues with powerbooks) but apple will fix them readily if its under warrenty.

Bobak said:

(1) I no longer need spyware blockers, correct? I was very good about this over the past several years on my PC, but I heard Macs don't have this problem.

(2) Are virii also not a problem? If not, what should I get?

(3) What are good websites for basic info and other questions?

(4) Anyone have any good laptop cases to recommend (the one I'm using now needs to be replaced because it's too damn heavy and I've had it for years).

(5) anything else a beginning Mac user should know?

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

1. I use none, never have. And no issues. I use FireFox and it's great for general web use.
2. No problem for me and I'm a net regular
3. www.macsurfer.com All the Mac news in one place including lots of links to techie stuff
4. Nope, sorry.
5. Use the shareware stuff out there. There are a TON of great shareware solutions for things that PC people think can't be done on a Mac.

Which brings me to Scan's post...

Scanline said:

They're going to announce vastly more powerful G5 based PowerBooks next week...

So you picked a BAD time to get a G4 based book.

I also find the 17-inch ones unweildy and way too large.

You'd be MUCH better off picking up the moderately sized 15-inch book which is far, far, lighter.

Click to expand...

I'm going to be buying a new laptop sometime in the near future and I'm waiting for then new ones so I can buy the OLD ones cheaper. But as a rule NEVER buy a product in it's first generation, from any company for any field. I will likely get a 12" powerbook because they're just awesome little Macs and I can plug into any size screen when home.

Scanline said:

I like my powerbook, but you eventually get frustrated by the lack of decent applications available for OSX.

Click to expand...

I've rarely had an issue with this. Really depends on what you're doing. For me, there are plenty of solutions and I'm a chemist which is a very specific field.

Scanline said:

Need a good newsreader? you get poorly designed bunk
The same goes for FTP clients, Video Playback, and too many other things to list.

Click to expand...

More bullshit. I'm not into newsreaders so I can't help there, but the best FTP client EVER is Mac only. Interarchy and it's cheap shareware. Fucking awesome FTP client and completely drag-and-drop, cross-program aware, etc. Video playback? Quicktime itself is very very strong and for a DVD player the Mac software kicks WMP's ass.

Scanline said:

The reality of the situation is that while you might have 20-30 applications to chose from to perform a single task on the windows platform, you might only have 2 or 3 available for OSX (if you're lucky) and if they arent designed by apple most of them SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!.

Click to expand...

Highly situation dependent.

Scanline said:

MS Office for OSX is even more bloated and slow than it is in Windows.
Open Office for OSX isnt even really usable.

Click to expand...

Completely wrong. I use both regularly and the MacOS X Office smokes the Windows version. They were developed independently at Microsoft, the Mac version from the ground up. I can't tell you how many reviews I've seen saying how good the Mac version is.

I use a Dell Inspiron 4150 at work all day and a Mac Pismo Powerbook G3 upgraded to G4. The Dell is about 2.5 years old and the Mac about 6 years old. The Mac still chugs along as fast as the POS Dell, has much much better battery life and has never given me any problems. Anything I need to do I can and can do it well. Are there benefits to using a PC? Sure, if you're into PC gaming, need a very specific app for your work, or want to pull out your hair when the power board fries (I believe we just lost 4 of the 6 8-month old Dell laptops to that at work), then buy a PC. But if you want to use the web, edit videos/pics, check e-mail, or any of a bunch of normal tasks that most people want a computer for, a Mac will make you very happy.

I've been peepin the 15" powerbooks for some time. The 12" screens don't seem as bright and are sorta washed out compared to the 15" and 17" models. Instead of a notebook I might just get a Mac mini to tote around.

Make sure you goto apple.com and watch the HD trailers for upcoming flicks. I'm a windows user so I can't take advantage of this yet.

There plenty of torrents for the big software releases on OSX so you might wanna check that out.

http://isohunt.com/torrents.php?ihq=mac+office&ext=&op=and

I'm not sure if they've fixed the wigget exploit yet, but that wasn't cool.

D-Lite's answers pretty much summed it up. I do however have Norton10 running for an anti-virus, they make a Mac version now. If you don't d-load pirated music,software..etc. and/or open unknown emails then odds are you have no need to worry though.

I still have my old school clam shell style iBook that still runs flawless. Never a repair done to it ( save for a new battery). So enjoy peace of mind on a well built laptop

syringe said:

MS Office for OSX is even more bloated and slow than it is in Windows.

Click to expand...

Fact : My ancient G3 iBook (G3- 366mhz., 320RAM, 10Gig HD) has OSX10.2 and it'll run MacOffice 04. Some lag, but come on, those stats running the program at all is proof it's not a system killer.

D-Lite said:

1. I use none, never have. And no issues. I use FireFox and it's great for general web use.
2. No problem for me and I'm a net regular
3. www.macsurfer.com All the Mac news in one place including lots of links to techie stuff
4. Nope, sorry.
5. Use the shareware stuff out there. There are a TON of great shareware solutions for things that PC people think can't be done on a Mac.

Which brings me to Scan's post...

I'm going to be buying a new laptop sometime in the near future and I'm waiting for then new ones so I can buy the OLD ones cheaper. But as a rule NEVER buy a product in it's first generation, from any company for any field. I will likely get a 12" powerbook because they're just awesome little Macs and I can plug into any size screen when home.


I've rarely had an issue with this. Really depends on what you're doing. For me, there are plenty of solutions and I'm a chemist which is a very specific field.


More bullshit. I'm not into newsreaders so I can't help there, but the best FTP client EVER is Mac only. Interarchy and it's cheap shareware. Fucking awesome FTP client and completely drag-and-drop, cross-program aware, etc. Video playback? Quicktime itself is very very strong and for a DVD player the Mac software kicks WMP's ass.


Highly situation dependent.

Completely wrong. I use both regularly and the MacOS X Office smokes the Windows version. They were developed independently at Microsoft, the Mac version from the ground up. I can't tell you how many reviews I've seen saying how good the Mac version is.

I use a Dell Inspiron 4150 at work all day and a Mac Pismo Powerbook G3 upgraded to G4. The Dell is about 2.5 years old and the Mac about 6 years old. The Mac still chugs along as fast as the POS Dell, has much much better battery life and has never given me any problems. Anything I need to do I can and can do it well. Are there benefits to using a PC? Sure, if you're into PC gaming, need a very specific app for your work, or want to pull out your hair when the power board fries (I believe we just lost 4 of the 6 8-month old Dell laptops to that at work), then buy a PC. But if you want to use the web, edit videos/pics, check e-mail, or any of a bunch of normal tasks that most people want a computer for, a Mac will make you very happy.

Click to expand...

Interarchy...lol

I suppose its half decent, but its nowhere near as good as SmartFTP or "the old standard" FlashFXP.

The same goes for a few other things. IRC for example.

Xchat is by all accounts OK but it's nowhere near as good or flexible as mIRC

As far as newsreaders well there's nothing comparable to NewsBinPro on OSX.

As far as DVD Playback the Mac does its job splendidly.

Quicktime just straight up sucks for a general purpose media player.

I'd go so far as to say its leagues worse than WMP which isn't that good to begin with.

The OSX build of VLC is probably the saving grace for the platform as a whole, but it still can't hold a candle to Media Player Classic or any of the Myriad of apps available for Windows.

It's suprising that Office X is as good as it is but its extremely sluggish compared to Office 2000, XP, and 2003 on any of the several windows setups that I've used in the last five years. Spellcheck in Office X shouldn't tax a 1ghz PowerBook and cause it to choke and stutter at random intervals, but it does.

Besides, the way it was coded unnessicary strain on the battery life as its constantly accessing the disk instead of staying in system memory until you choose to save a file.
(Hint: Which is why a ton of PowerBook users work in TextEdit and only paste it in word once they're done and need to edit or plugged into a wall socket. 4hrs in text edit vs 2 in word)

Dell isn't the source of each and every windows based laptop (despite popular belief as they're the current giant in the PC industry) so I wouldn't use their hardware problems as a straw man argument against the reliability of X86 machines considering the extremely high quality of IBM, Panasonic and Vaio notebooks.

P.S. The 12-inch book? now that is just weaksauce.



Sure, Macs will easily satisfy the requirements of a basic PC user but one has to sacrifice a great deal of compatability and interplotability to use one.

Abasuto said:

D-Lite's answers pretty much summed it up. I do however have Norton10 running for an anti-virus, they make a Mac version now. If you don't d-load pirated music,software..etc. and/or open unknown emails then odds are you have no need to worry though.

I still have my old school clam shell style iBook that still runs flawless. Never a repair done to it ( save for a new battery). So enjoy peace of mind on a well built laptop



Fact : My ancient G3 iBook (G3- 366mhz., 320RAM, 10Gig HD) has OSX10.2 and it'll run MacOffice 04. Some lag, but come on, those stats running the program at all is proof it's not a system killer.

Click to expand...

Office X/2004 isn't a system killer but its certianly the fat girl of the office family.

syringe said:

It's suprising that Office X is as good as it is but its extremely sluggish compared to Office 2000, XP, and 2003 on any of the several windows setups that I've used in the last five years. Spellcheck in Office X shouldn't tax a 1ghz PowerBook and cause it to choke and stutter at random intervals, but it does.

Click to expand...

I run Office on XP and it's a pure disaster. It regularly crashes it's various components, even when I'm only running Microsoft products on a Microsoft operating system. Pure trash.

No, Dell is not the only company many Windows machines, but they are the cheaper, popular choice so they are the most common experience for the majority of computer owners. People seem to think that everyone buying a computer is a superuser. Hardly. Most are your mom. Which means, "Hmmm, that gray Dell one looks nice and it's cheap, so...." Obviously the Mac vs. PC argument extends past these folks, but they are important to the industry.

If you want something other than a Dell, something high end, you will be paying at least the same prices you'd be paying for a comparable Mac. At that point buying a Mac is a really good option. It'll work for years, it'll be more durable and less problematic, and porn works on either platform quite well thank you.

D-Lite said:

I run Office on XP and it's a pure disaster. It regularly crashes it's various components, even when I'm only running Microsoft products on a Microsoft operating system. Pure trash.

No, Dell is not the only company many Windows machines, but they are the cheaper, popular choice so they are the most common experience for the majority of computer owners. People seem to think that everyone buying a computer is a superuser. Hardly. Most are your mom. Which means, "Hmmm, that gray Dell one looks nice and it's cheap, so...." Obviously the Mac vs. PC argument extends past these folks, but they are important to the industry.

If you want something other than a Dell, something high end, you will be paying at least the same prices you'd be paying for a comparable Mac. At that point buying a Mac is a really good option. It'll work for years, it'll be more durable and less problematic, and porn works on either platform quite well thank you.

Click to expand...

As far as desktops go.

I build my machines and I havent had a problem with the stability of Office since I jumped from the 9x kernel to the NT based operating systems back in 1999 (2000, XP).

As far as Macs being more idiot proof, well that's not really debatable given the amount of times i've had to reformat computers for other people. But given that we're all at least considerably sophisticated computer users, I don't see that as much of an issue when we're not talking about our mothers, spouses or younger siblings.

You actually get a comparable thin/light Pentium M based notebook for $500-800 less than you can get a top end 12 or 15 inch powerbook for ( especially when we're talking about the Panasonic Toughbooks.)

Although, I'm predictably going to aim for the high end and grab a fully loaded IBM X-series ThinkPad.

http://www.ihatedell.net/

Bobak try Zero Halliburton. I bought one of these about 5yrs ago and it's still great. You're supposed to be able to drop a notebook from 5ft high and the computer will sustain no damage.

http://www.zerohalliburton.com/

lol .. xchat kills mirc you idiot

mirc only just got multiple server windows like last year.

and


with apple moving to intel chips next year.. I think I'll just wait for darwinX86 to get the carbon and cocoa librarys... then I'll just run macosx on my PC thanks, instead of using some slower, more expensive hardware now.. macs are nice, but they're a bit too fashionable in my opinion. year 2000 fashion too.

oh wait - I remember, its like version 1.0.4 or something stupid on mac

whereas on every decent platform its on 2.4.3


ho well.

I refuse to take any shot towards PCs serious if you're talking about Dell

I haven't had a chance to think about what I'm going with, but I'm thinking of the Mac Mini or building my own PC.

Just to make a quick commnet on Macs. I have always been a windows user and have never thought of owning a mac. Someone game me a G4 duall 500mhz and I was amazed at how such an old computer could be used as a daily user. OS X Tiger is an awaesome OS its just fun to learn stuff.

Maybe its because I have been using windows for over 10 years (I have nothing against it I actualy like XP) and am bored with its format, but for the last 2 months I hardly even use my PC. Only reason I have used it lately is to watch HD videos that my mac cant run.

I upgraded my Ram to a gig. Bought a 5200U and flashed it to mac in order to get core image and Quartz extreme. I am now planning to buy a CPU upgrade from Giga Design just to speed things a bit and to maybe at least be able to play some HD videos.

I already have 2 PC's (One with a 3200+ Athlon Xp and a Athlon64 3500) and even though they are faster then dual 500mhz I enjoy the Mac more now. Like I said maybe its because its something new and was just bored of windows.

I have the Mac next to the Athlon XP PC with a VGA switch and plan to buy a G5 at the end of the year to go next to my Athlon 64 (with another switcher).

Good Expirence over all. BTW I have not had any problems with Office 2004 except I am so use to Office XP that its a little overwelming for me.

For 1 and 2, you might want to start looking into it, apparently Macs are starting to get Spyware and Viruses (Virii or Viri aren't recognized English words). I'll try and find the source I got this from, but I figured before I forgot I'd post something about it.

There is no mac spyware yet.
Virii are not an issue at the moment. I purposely click known trojan sites to see what they do. A friend of mine got hit with that messenger worm, and i clicked that on purpose on my mac as well. I did nothing to me.
With the growing mac population, it will eventually become more of an issue.

Also keep in mind, Macs have excellent resale. So in 5 years, if you deceide to get a new one, this powerbook will still fetch you a decent price.

Lastly, i MUST stress .......be patient.....SO many people pick up a mac and just get frustrated because they are simply unfamiliar with interface. People are sooo comfortable with Windows and knowing exactly where options exist. Those same options are in a mac , most of the time, and you just need to discover how they are implemented.

Linux.
That is all.

My first advice is don't listen to a Mac-hater like scan about OSX software. That's like asking kernow for Windows advice. Honestly, the Mac field has plenty of applications of any type except gaming these days.

X said:

Just to make a quick commnet on Macs. I have always been a windows user and have never thought of owning a mac. Someone game me a G4 duall 500mhz and I was amazed at how such an old computer could be used as a daily user. OS X Tiger is an awaesome OS its just fun to learn stuff.

Maybe its because I have been using windows for over 10 years (I have nothing against it I actualy like XP) and am bored with its format, but for the last 2 months I hardly even use my PC. Only reason I have used it lately is to watch HD videos that my mac cant run.

I upgraded my Ram to a gig. Bought a 5200U and flashed it to mac in order to get core image and Quartz extreme. I am now planning to buy a CPU upgrade from Giga Design just to speed things a bit and to maybe at least be able to play some HD videos.

I already have 2 PC's (One with a 3200+ Athlon Xp and a Athlon64 3500) and even though they are faster then dual 500mhz I enjoy the Mac more now. Like I said maybe its because its something new and was just bored of windows.

I have the Mac next to the Athlon XP PC with a VGA switch and plan to buy a G5 at the end of the year to go next to my Athlon 64 (with another switcher).

Good Expirence over all. BTW I have not had any problems with Office 2004 except I am so use to Office XP that its a little overwelming for me.

Click to expand...

I'm surfing right now on a iMac G3 350mhz running OSX 10.2.8. Upgraded the HD to 80 gigs, added a DVD-rom, and upped the memory to 572 megs.
It runs great, and I've never had problems with office X on it. (I -have- had problems with the older versions of office, back in the day when I was running OS8 and OS9. Office 97 was ass.)
(And not cute aisian schoolgirl ass, either. I'm talkin 800 lb gorilla ass. God Damn That's A Big Fat Ass sized ass.)

HellioN said:

Linux.
That is all.

Click to expand...

linux was viable 2 years ago, but the driver support is non existent now.

Also, you'd be suprised on how many games get ported to the mac now...just a few momths after PC release tho ;(

1. pics?
2. may god have mercy on ur soul u traitorous metro.
3. good laptop too bad its a mac.

Hey Daddy Warbucks - what do you ever do with all your old stuff? Think of me as the local salvation army.