Dragon Blaze (Psikyo collection vol. 3 PS2)

Takumaji · Apr 10, 2005

Finally got my long-awaited copy of this collection.

I've played the rom before, but since my PC isn't all that fast, I got lots of frame skipping, up to a point where the game became unplayable when there were lots of bullets on screen (and there constantly are in the later levels).

Now that I'm able to play it in all its glory, I must say that I'm even more impressed as I was when I first saw it , but damn, it's one of the hardest shmups I've played in month, if not years. The bullet patterns are very quick and deadly... some spots I'm not able to beat without using bombs.

In short, I suck like hell at this game atm., seems like I have lots of homework to do.

Any tips for how to effectively use the dragon?

I've also played Sol Divide for a while, but so far I prefer Sengoku Blade over it, the pre-rendered graphics look a bit weird IMO.

One thing I don't get is the distributor/release info. The official title for the compilation is "Saikyo Shooting Collection Vol.3: Sol Divide and Dragon Blaze", and it has a Taito logo on it.

IIRC, Saikyo means "strong" or "determined" or something like that, and it takes a bit of strength and determination to beat DB I guess, but why Taito when the games are from Psikyo? Anyone fill me in please.

Oh, and of course Dragon Blaze has a tate mode.

Kristian Meller · Apr 10, 2005

Two thumbs down.

Sol Divide just plain sucks and Dragon Blaze is a huge disappointment.

It's almost exactly the same as all other vertical Psikyo shoot'em ups. People who say that Cave shooters are all alike should play Strikers 1945 1, 2, Gunbird 1, 2, Sengoku Ace, and Dragon Blaze. It's shameful how similar these games are. Aside from graphics (but even the powerups look almost exactly the same!) and very few gameplay changes it's more or less all the same.

And it doesn't help that it looks like they've put some sort of sadistic composite filter on Dragon Blaze. I couldn't believe how gray and grainy it looked.

At least Psikyo have games like Sengoku Blade and Zero Gunner 2 in their back catalogue.

I'm selling my copy. Totally mint and complete. Who wants to buy? :kekeke:

Segata_Sanshiro · Apr 10, 2005

1cc Sengoku Ace, then try to 1cc Dragon Blaze on the same day...I'll give you a cookie.

Not the same games. Also the scoring systems between, say, strikers2, strikers 3, and dragon blaze are all different...read a good faq.

SNKJorge · Apr 10, 2005

Segata_Sanshiro said:
1cc Sengoku Ace, then try to 1cc Dragon Blaze on the same day...I'll give you a cookie.

Not the same games. Also the scoring systems between, say, strikers2, strikers 3, and dragon blaze are all different...read a good faq.

Don't even try to with this guy, he's a fucking idiot, plain & simple.

Kristian Meller · Apr 10, 2005

Segata_Sanshiro said:
1cc Sengoku Ace, then try to 1cc Dragon Blaze on the same day...I'll give you a cookie.

I never said they were equally difficult :kekeke:

And I never said they were the same games. I never mentioned Strikers 3 either.

SNKJorge · Apr 10, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I never said they were equally difficult

And I never said they were the same games. I never mentioned Strikers 3 either.

They never mentioned Psikyo games on this thread:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115822

But you still brought them up, you're still a fucking retarded idiot.

Kristian Meller · Apr 10, 2005

I don't know why this bothers you so much. It's just my opinion on a few games. I'm sorry they don't suit you but that's just the way it is.

Who ever said it was illegal to make comparisons? Just get over the fact that there are people who don't have the same taste you do.

Takumaji · Apr 10, 2005

Man, so much love for Psikyo...

I thought ppl would go nuts over this release, at least I did when I heard about it.... weird...

Kristian, I disagree with you completely. Strikers, S1945II and S1999 look and play similar, but that could be said about many sequels. Psikyo had a certain style they applied to all of their shmups, including the more fancy ones like Zero Gunner 2, Space Bomber, etc. That's not cut'n'paste, that's a concept, just like Cave still follow their DonPatchi concept and came up with DDP DoJ, which is a nice game but has the exact same mechanics and looks as its prequel, except for a bit of tweaking here and there.

Speaking of Space Bomber, I don't remember any other company who did something like it and it shows that the Psikyo guys were able to do other things than Strikers sequels.

I don't know how much time you've put into Dragon Blaze before you passed judgement about it, but except for the typical Psikyo-style of level design and enemy placement, there's a lot of new and original stuff in it which makes the game worth playing, even if it's very hard.

Ah well.

Kiel · Apr 10, 2005

I am really looking forward to getting this game for DB. I just have to wait until after my brothers wedding.

Kristian Meller · Apr 10, 2005

Takumaji said:
I don't know how much time you've put into Dragon Blaze before you passed judgement about it, but except for the typical Psikyo-style of level design and enemy placement, there's a lot of new and original stuff in it which makes the game worth playing, even if it's very hard.

I never passed judgement. I just said I was disappointed, which implies that I am disappointed with what I have played as of yet. In any case, I've played it enough to know if I will like it. And the composite-thing isn't about passing judgement; I think any rational person who sees it running in yoko mode would say it looks really, really bad. The bad thing is that it doesn't have to. The other Psikyo conversions I have look much, much better.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I never passed judgement. I just said I was disappointed, which implies that I am disappointed with what I have played as of yet. In any case, I've played it enough to know if I will like it. And the composite-thing isn't about passing judgement; I think any rational person who sees it running in yoko mode would say it looks really, really bad. The bad thing is that it doesn't have to. The other Psikyo conversions I have look much, much better.

Ah ok, now I see, you mean the display filter... just checked it, and yes, that's a bit of a drawback, but since this only applies to yoko while most shmupers play this game in tate ( = like it was meant to be played) where it looks gorgeous and razor-sharp, I can live with that. Normally, switching to tate mode is the first thing I do when I try out a new shmup port for the first time, so I hardly even see yoko modes at all.

Gameplay-wise, DB follows the Psikyo formula of almost rhythmic enemy and bullet patterns which needs anticipation and, well, practice. The game requires the player to be highly methodical in terms of when to use what weapon because even with a fully upgraded dragon, sheer firepower alone doesn't cut it, even more as the game has considerably more multi-hit enemies than, say, the Strikers games.

I think this is the biggest difference between Psikyo and Cave shmups, or DB and the latest Cave offerings like DDP DoJ or ESPGaluda to be precise. Of course the Cave games also require you to do quick and accurate manoeuvers, but they give the player slightly more freedom of choice of how to overcome a dangerous situation, unllike the "do it right or die" approach of DB and other Psikyo games. I can see how some ppl don't like that.

Kristian Meller · Apr 11, 2005

I figured it would look better in tate. Configuring my tated screen to look good with a console game instead of a PCB is a pain in the ass though, so I only play games in tate where I really like the game itself.

Like ESPGaluda

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I figured it would look better in tate. Configuring my tated screen to look good with a console game instead of a PCB is a pain in the ass though, so I only play games in tate where I really like the game itself.

Like ESPGaluda

That's understandable.

Thing is tho, the way a dedicated vert shmup looks and plays in yoko is not something I'd base my rating of a game on. For me, yoko is a sub-par workaround for those who cannot rotate their TV/monitor (e.g. due to space restrictions), otherwise tate is a must, and be it just to give the game a fair chance.

Kristian Meller · Apr 11, 2005

I still think a decent yoko mode is a must. I'd like to know how many of the people who bought a game like Psikyo Vol. 3 actually have a tated screen. I don't think it's the majority.

And I still think it's strange that DB looks this bad in yoko. Even that awful MLF 1 "conversion" looked a lot better.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I still think a decent yoko mode is a must. I'd like to know how many of the people who bought a game like Psikyo Vol. 3 actually have a tated screen. I don't think it's the majority.

And I still think it's strange that DB looks this bad in yoko. Even that awful MLF 1 "conversion" looked a lot better.

I'm not sure about this. The whole Psikyo collection series (and most other PS2 ports of current shmups) seem to me like a fan service, and since most fans know about tate and the drawbacks of yoko not only in terms of graphics but also gameplay, I'd say more than half of those who bought these packs rotate their monitors, if not more.

I mean, most ppl own more than one TV, so it shouldn't be a problem to spend a couple of minutes to rotate one of them to play these games like they were meant to be.

I have multi-sync Philips RGB monitor for that purpose. It's only 15", but this also makes handling/rotating the unit very convenient.

Kristian Meller · Apr 11, 2005

I really don't think you're right on this, but it's not exactly easy to find out.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I really don't think you're right on this, but it's not exactly easy to find out.

That's right, there are no "definitive figures" about the use of tate mode vs. yoko, but last time there was a poll about that in here, more than two third of the members voted for tate.

Kristian Meller · Apr 11, 2005

NG.com doesn't count

This place is far to hardcore to make any sort of generalization based on.

If there were only twice as many buyers for PS2 vertical shmups as there are people who have access to a TATE screen (as you said earlier, in other words), no vertical shooters would ever be released. They simply wouldn't sell well enough.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Still, I think you shouldn't base your views on issues with a display mode that has nothing in common with how the game originally was conceived to be. DB yoko plays 101% different than DB tate, and that goes for ANY vert shmup out there, regardless wether ppl actually use it or not.

Complaining about a bad yoko mode or a lack of it in a vert shmup port seems to me like complaining about a sports car and its below-average performance in heavy city traffic while refusing to try and test it on a race track or deserted highway just because that would be "too hardcore"...

Kristian Meller · Apr 11, 2005

I don't agree. It's just not "normal" to have a TV or other moniter that's turned on its side. When you make a home conversion you need to have a mode that can be played on a regular TV without having to turn it on its side. And that mode needs to be at least decent.

And your race car analogy isn't right. It makes NO sense to be talking about possible home versions of vertical shmups without yoko modes.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Kristian Meller said:
I don't agree. It's just not "normal" to have a TV or other moniter that's turned on its side. When you make a home conversion you need to have a mode that can be played on a regular TV without having to turn it on its side. And that mode needs to be at least decent.

And your race car analogy isn't right. It makes NO sense to be talking about possible home versions of vertical shmups without yoko modes.

With my car analogy, I am referring to the fact that there are some things which seem like below-average or even bad when used in a different way than its creators had planned, like a sports car which was made for the race track where it can show its stuff, but not for stop-and-go traffic where it may perform even worse than a small 50hp city cruiser.

I agree that a home conversion of a shmup needs basic functions to make the game playable on a standard home setup, but again, IMO, that's just a concession to those who cannot 'tate their TVs, but it definitely shouldn't be the focal point of the developers who port it to home consoles because it's inferior by default no matter how much thought they put into it, and you don't have to be hardcore/a die-hard shmup fan to see that.

I mean, why playing an inferior yoko version of a vert shmup if rotating your monitor/TV by 90 deg. is all it takes to come as close to the original arcade game as possible? Makes no sense to me.

Robert · Apr 11, 2005

I never rotate my TV since I have always heard it would badly damage it. But reading the whole thread it seems that this is something usually done when playing shooters.

Don't know what to think now.

Takumaji · Apr 11, 2005

Robert said:
I never rotate my TV since I have always heard it would badly damage it.

Let's put it this way, there are some TV sets which you can rotate without any problems, and there are some that may take damage in the long run, it's up to you to test it.

As a rule of thumb, if your TV does not show weird magnetizing colors during your tate session, there should be no problem with it. It's important to rotate the TV and then wait for at least 15 minutes until switching it on again. Also, it's a good idea not to rotate a TV that ran for a couple of hours in yoko before letting it cool down for a while. And - the bigger the TV, the more likely is to suffer from rotating, while small TVs usually don't take any damage from it.

Of course standard TV sets aren't really meant to be rotated, that's why most shmup fans have a smaller TV or even a dedicated RGB monitor for that.

I mean, if you really want to play these games as they were meant to be, get one of those cheap 14/15" RGB monitors (like the good ol' Commodore 1080/1084S or even 1901) for tate and spare your big TV the hassle of getting placed on the side.

Robert · Apr 11, 2005

Thanks for the answer Takumaji,

I used to play Ikaruga in tate mode with my old 15' TV but I stopped when I have heard these kind of damage story.

Amano Jacu · Apr 11, 2005

Here's a fun story somehow related to rotating a TV:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79487

A link was given to a dedicated page:

http://turn.to/Vertical

By the way, if a CRT TV gets color distortion after rotation, it is easily fixed with a "demagnet wand".

My gaming TV is 21'', I can turn it if it's needed, but usually I only do when I want to have a long play in a game I really enjoy. A really old pic:

Dragon Blaze (Psikyo collection vol. 3 PS2)

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