what percentage of african americans truly think white man is the devil?

yeah i know know this thread is destined to turn into a joke and get moved to the war room in record time but i was listening to the wake up show vol 8 and cee lo green did a poem to a beat that was about how original man was black and then a bunch of ppl moved north to colder climes and their skin changed color (he said it was against natures grand design).

he went on to say that white ppl have taught black ppl to kill their own and pursue money above else, etc etc.

im well aware its a popular concept thrown around by more cerebral rappers and all that sorta stuff, i also realize that there are those amongst white ppl who also believe the same thing only in reverse (white supremacists and the like) but where i come from (brisbane australia) i met very few racists (or maybe i just didnt associate with those kind of ppl)....

now im not saying that the above is racist nor am i likening it to the kkk but it still strikes me as incredibly divisional and not a good philosophy for a person who wants to live in a world where the color of a persons skin, their gender or their appearance attracts no bias or stereotyping....

I'm not sure about the overall percentage, but G-Russ is on that list for sure.

YES I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING

Well I'm half black predominately, and I don't believe that nonsense at all. *Fact is is that the black ppl themselves that have kept themselves "Oppressed" more than any other thing. Sure there was a time when during segregation things were clearly cut... but since desegregation came into being, it's the black population that can't let go of the past. Not all, just a huge precentile that wants to stay mad at whitey for what happened up to and including segregation. I have an Aunt who's married to a black militant who ran with Huey and the Black Panthers and knew Malcom X personally... that whole part of the family scoffs at the others {and my family is mixed of a lot of things, but Black is definately in there} who get along too well with White ppl.

How has the black communities kept themselves down you ask? Well a good deal I grew up with, guys and gals with good heads on their shoulders, with good ideas etcetera... they buy into reinforcing the stereotype that all blacks are fried chicken eating, ebonics speaking, hip hop listening thugs and skeezers. Anyone who dosen't subscribe to this lifestyle is automatically "Black listed" as being a traitor to their race/roots, or if you're a half breed then you're not black enough, and if you're a high yellow black, your light, bright and think you're white. Yet 9 times out of 10, the ppl acting a fool, as Luda would put it... don't know shit about their own heritage outside of things to hate on or pass the blame on others. But the fact remains is, just like a lot of Hispanics, THEY can't get out of the "Ghetto" mentality. Ppl make something of themselves, go into the military... see the world... then go right back to where they came from and get shot dead at a street light. WHY? Because if they tried to move their family out of the ghetto they're race traders. When all else fails like during the Rodney King riots, did they {the black ppl} formulate into mobs and burn down Beverly Hills??? NOPE, they looted and burnt down their own neighborhoods like idiots. As in my father's time growing up a high yellow black, he wasn't accepted by the whites, and wasn't black enough to date a fellow black. All he saw was when a black man got promoted, and another wanted a helping hand 8.5 times out of 10, the common response was: Nigga' you got to be outta' your mind, THIS IS MY MONEY!

So honestly, I'd say a lot of blacks still have the "Plantation Mentality", but they keep themselves in that mindset because it's easier to behave that way. To some degree I had that problem too, just not with the race issues, but with my own stupid private war against society being "Contra/Militant" to everything which thankfully I've made peace with. ---Bottom line, no one has but themselves to blame if they don't look ahead and do something with their lives, then give back to the ppl who did help you or believed in you along the way. Thus I don't see why people are down on the Asians always being head of the class or having money... they at least help each other out. I thank GOD I've never been so shallow minded on the racial thing.

MERCENARY X99

nice post merc and thanks for the insight. you summed things up nicely.

beelzebubble said:

yeah i know know this thread is destined to turn into a joke and get moved to the war room in record time but i was listening to the wake up show vol 8 and cee lo green did a poem to a beat that was about how original man was black and then a bunch of ppl moved north to colder climes and their skin changed color (he said it was against natures grand design).

he went on to say that white ppl have taught black ppl to kill their own and pursue money above else, etc etc.

im well aware its a popular concept thrown around by more cerebral rappers and all that sorta stuff, i also realize that there are those amongst white ppl who also believe the same thing only in reverse (white supremacists and the like) but where i come from (brisbane australia) i met very few racists (or maybe i just didnt associate with those kind of ppl)....

now im not saying that the above is racist nor am i likening it to the kkk but it still strikes me as incredibly divisional and not a good philosophy for a person who wants to live in a world where the color of a persons skin, their gender or their appearance attracts no bias or stereotyping....

Click to expand...

I dont think many consider whites to be outright devils, but many will say that the white man is definitely out to get them. And with the history of racial strife in this country, its understandable. I mean, the generations that went through the real racial stuff (and I dont mean "I cant catch a cab" shit) are still alive. To the younger generation, it was a lifetime ago, but to the ones that went through it it was just yesterday. Which also means that the ones that were oppressing are also still mulling about.....


I agree with Merc's comments 100% . The slave mentality is still there and its not helping that there are some fairly obvious puppetstrings being pulled in black communities.

jaydubnb said:

I dont think many consider whites to be outright devils, but many will say that the white man is definitely out to get them. And with the history of racial strife in this country, its understandable. I mean, the generations that went through the real racial stuff (and I dont mean "I cant catch a cab" shit) are still alive. To the younger generation, it was a lifetime ago, but to the ones that went through it it was just yesterday. Which also means that the ones that were oppressing are also still mulling about.....


I agree with Merc's comments 100% . The slave mentality is still there and its not helping that there are some fairly obvious puppetstrings being pulled in black communities.

Click to expand...

i have a question, something ive always wondered, do you think the white slave trading was something that happened due to skin color, circumstances, inherent desires/way of thinking.... or some other motivation?

beelzebubble said:

i have a question, something ive always wondered, do you think the white slave trading was something that happened due to skin color, circumstances, inherent desires/way of thinking.... or some other motivation?

Click to expand...

I think it was originally business, a cheap source of labor. But once the slaves arrived in the states, the slavemasters had to justify their actions with all of the "subhuman" stuff and things just spiraled out of control.

The devil is not a white man.... hell not even a man. It's a woman.
A woman in a red dress.

If I remember correctly from my Natural History class, the rapper is sort of correct when he says that the first people were black. Africa being the center of Pangea makes sense because its so arid now. People who migrated to Europe and Asia overtime adapted to colder temperatures and more humidity. Thus their bodies started making less quantities of melanin, which is what produces skin pigmentation. It's rather interesting, the very subtle biological differences between people living on different continents is surprisingly staggering, but it must be noted that the human body can adapt to almost any condition.

For the most part I agree with Merc's slave mentality concept, but having worked in inner city schools myself I can tell you that these children aren't so much targeted by the suburban school districts (i.e. white) as they are NEGLECTED. White people (as well as hispanic, asian, whatever) really don't care about black people. It's that simple, so I think there is still a heavy current of racism...it's passivity being the only difference.

my $0.02.

BoriquaSNK said:

If I remember correctly from my Natural History class, the rapper is sort of correct when he says that the first people were black. Africa being the center of Pangea makes sense because its so arid now. People who migrated to Europe and Asia overtime adapted to colder temperatures and more humidity. Thus their bodies started making less quantities of melanin, which is what produces skin pigmentation. It's rather interesting, the very subtle biological differences between people living on different continents is surprisingly staggering, but it must be noted that the human body can adapt to almost any condition.

For the most part I agree with Merc's slave mentality concept, but having worked in inner city schools myself I can tell you that these children aren't so much targeted by the suburban school districts (i.e. white) as they are NEGLECTED. White people (as well as hispanic, asian, whatever) really don't care about black people. It's that simple, so I think there is still a heavy current of racism...it's passivity being the only difference.

my $0.02.

Click to expand...

yeah i did a bit of natural history myself at a japanese uni actually in a class (which was really good) about the origins and histories of pretty much all of the pacific island nations... iin that class i learned about where modern man first appeared and realize what the rapper was saying is true. it was his mystifying of the origins of white skinned humans that got me thinking about this subject.

i wonder if we will ever see a world where race truly never enters a persons mind when they form their impression/opinion of another....?

BoriquaSNK said:

If I remember correctly from my Natural History class, the rapper is sort of correct when he says that the first people were black. Africa being the center of Pangea makes sense because its so arid now. People who migrated to Europe and Asia overtime adapted to colder temperatures and more humidity. Thus their bodies started making less quantities of melanin, which is what produces skin pigmentation. It's rather interesting, the very subtle biological differences between people living on different continents is surprisingly staggering, but it must be noted that the human body can adapt to almost any condition.

Click to expand...

That's some pretty subversive ideology right there...don't you know Adam and Eve were pasty white?

Oh yeah, and Evolution is only a theory and should stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Intelligent Design.

Mercenary X99 said:

YES I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING

Well I'm half black predominately, and I don't believe that nonsense at all. *Fact is is that the black ppl themselves that have kept themselves "Oppressed" more than any other thing. Sure there was a time when during segregation things were clearly cut... but since desegregation came into being, it's the black population that can't let go of the past. Not all, just a huge precentile that wants to stay mad at whitey for what happened up to and including segregation. I have an Aunt who's married to a black militant who ran with Huey and the Black Panthers and knew Malcom X personally... that whole part of the family scoffs at the others {and my family is mixed of a lot of things, but Black is definately in there} who get along too well with White ppl.

How has the black communities kept themselves down you ask? Well a good deal I grew up with, guys and gals with good heads on their shoulders, with good ideas etcetera... they buy into reinforcing the stereotype that all blacks are fried chicken eating, ebonics speaking, hip hop listening thugs and skeezers. Anyone who dosen't subscribe to this lifestyle is automatically "Black listed" as being a traitor to their race/roots, or if you're a half breed then you're not black enough, and if you're a high yellow black, your light, bright and think you're white. Yet 9 times out of 10, the ppl acting a fool, as Luda would put it... don't know shit about their own heritage outside of things to hate on or pass the blame on others. But the fact remains is, just like a lot of Hispanics, THEY can't get out of the "Ghetto" mentality. Ppl make something of themselves, go into the military... see the world... then go right back to where they came from and get shot dead at a street light. WHY? Because if they tried to move their family out of the ghetto they're race traders. When all else fails like during the Rodney King riots, did they {the black ppl} formulate into mobs and burn down Beverly Hills??? NOPE, they looted and burnt down their own neighborhoods like idiots. As in my father's time growing up a high yellow black, he wasn't accepted by the whites, and wasn't black enough to date a fellow black. All he saw was when a black man got promoted, and another wanted a helping hand 8.5 times out of 10, the common response was: Nigga' you got to be outta' your mind, THIS IS MY MONEY!

So honestly, I'd say a lot of blacks still have the "Plantation Mentality", but they keep themselves in that mindset because it's easier to behave that way. To some degree I had that problem too, just not with the race issues, but with my own stupid private war against society being "Contra/Militant" to everything which thankfully I've made peace with. ---Bottom line, no one has but themselves to blame if they don't look ahead and do something with their lives, then give back to the ppl who did help you or believed in you along the way. Thus I don't see why people are down on the Asians always being head of the class or having money... they at least help each other out. I thank GOD I've never been so shallow minded on the racial thing.

MERCENARY X99

Click to expand...

This is probably the most intelligent post about ANYTHING I have ever seen on this site by ANYONE. I would say, in a nutshell, this man has hit the nail square on the head. One of the most important things that seperates man from animal is our desire to better ourselves. This can come in various forms, but education and desire to succeed in life are probably the most important. When you don't desire to do either of these and then make fun of those who do, you are oppressing yourself. Such is what many sub cultures in America like to do. Instead of getting educated and forming some sort of future for yourself, you would rather stick to the neighborhood roots and continue down the same path.


Its sad too, cause many of these "ghetto" neighborhoods reinforce this. If you want to be more than what the ghetto would support, you are a traitor to your fellow black man. When I was in High School, there was like 3 black people in the school and they were all brother and sisters. One black family.

And you know what? People there generally loved them. Their family was of a middle-upper class income wise (aka not poor, but not rich), lived in a nice home in a nice neighborhood. There was 2 sisters and 1 brother. The one brother, Tony, was a friend of mine and we were in the same grade. He was the typical class clown, like to goof off and make claims about how big his cawk was, but he was by no means a gangster. He was about as "white" as one could be. Especially in the way he dressed. And this was in the early 90's where that West Coast gangster mentality was sweeping the nation. Sure he listened to that stuff, but thats about as far as it got. Both his sisters were quite the scholars in school and as far as I know, they have went on to very good careers and starting families and such. I haven't seen Tony in a couple years, but I would assume he is doing well for himself.


Point to this story = Large group of self oppressing people will keep themselves oppressed without the need for outside people to influence them. The ghetto is its own worse enemy.

broken said:

This is probably the most intelligent post about ANYTHING I have ever seen on this site by ANYONE. I would say, in a nutshell, this man has hit the nail square on the head. One of the most important things that seperates man from animal is our desire to better ourselves. This can come in various forms, but education and desire to succeed in life are probably the most important. When you don't desire to do either of these and then make fun of those who do, you are oppressing yourself. Such is what many sub cultures in America like to do. Instead of getting educated and forming some sort of future for yourself, you would rather stick to the neighborhood roots and continue down the same path.


Its sad too, cause many of these "ghetto" neighborhoods reinforce this. If you want to be more than what the ghetto would support, you are a traitor to your fellow black man. When I was in High School, there was like 3 black people in the school and they were all brother and sisters. One black family.

And you know what? People there generally loved them. Their family was of a middle-upper class income wise (aka not poor, but not rich), lived in a nice home in a nice neighborhood. There was 2 sisters and 1 brother. The one brother, Tony, was a friend of mine and we were in the same grade. He was the typical class clown, like to goof off and make claims about how big his cawk was, but he was by no means a gangster. He was about as "white" as one could be. Especially in the way he dressed. And this was in the early 90's where that West Coast gangster mentality was sweeping the nation. Sure he listened to that stuff, but thats about as far as it got. Both his sisters were quite the scholars in school and as far as I know, they have went on to very good careers and starting families and such. I haven't seen Tony in a couple years, but I would assume he is doing well for himself.


Point to this story = Large group of self oppressing people will keep themselves oppressed without the need for outside people to influence them. The ghetto is its own worse enemy.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with a couple of your (and Merc's) points. The idea that people refusing to leave the ghetto because they want to "belong" (i.e. not be traitors) is bullshit. No one WANTS to live in the ghetto, it's very desperate. The only people that live there are people that have no other options. I agree that a lot of the ghetto has refused to help itself, but there are a few important and key reasons for this (IMO):

1. Lack of leadership: There are very few coherent leaders for black civil rights today. The first three that come to most people's mind are Sharpton, Jackson, and Farakhan...followed closely by a loud laugh. Such is the state of the modern civil rights movement. This is beginning to change with visionaries like Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, and I even think Al Sharpton has done wonders for the movement by making it less of a "black" problem and more of a "minority" problem, which is exactly what it is.

2. Lack of Infrastructure: Go to Northwest D.C or North Philly and try and find any of the bustling opportunities a lot of suburban people (myself included) speak of. They simply aren't there. Real job opportunities are few and far between, and there is a significant glass ceiling for urban peoplz in the work force. Frankly, it's tough to move up in the commercial service industry (hotels, restaurants, etc) and that's what the majority of jobs in the ghetto are.

3. Lack of Education: Schools fucking suck in the city. Couple that with the proposed voucher programs and we would see the further strangling of public schools. The only real remedy for this under the Bush Admin is for privately funded (but non-corporate) public charter schools. This is working wonderfully in Philly for gifted kids, I think it should extend to more at risk neighborhoods as well. Unfortunately, this eliminates the possibility for teacher unions, but I think that the education crisis is a bit more important right now.

Mercenary X99 said:

YES I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING

Well I'm half black predominately, and I don't believe that nonsense at all. *Fact is is that the black ppl themselves that have kept themselves "Oppressed" more than any other thing. Sure there was a time when during segregation things were clearly cut... but since desegregation came into being, it's the black population that can't let go of the past. Not all, just a huge precentile that wants to stay mad at whitey for what happened up to and including segregation. I have an Aunt who's married to a black militant who ran with Huey and the Black Panthers and knew Malcom X personally... that whole part of the family scoffs at the others {and my family is mixed of a lot of things, but Black is definately in there} who get along too well with White ppl.

How has the black communities kept themselves down you ask? Well a good deal I grew up with, guys and gals with good heads on their shoulders, with good ideas etcetera... they buy into reinforcing the stereotype that all blacks are fried chicken eating, ebonics speaking, hip hop listening thugs and skeezers. Anyone who dosen't subscribe to this lifestyle is automatically "Black listed" as being a traitor to their race/roots, or if you're a half breed then you're not black enough, and if you're a high yellow black, your light, bright and think you're white. Yet 9 times out of 10, the ppl acting a fool, as Luda would put it... don't know shit about their own heritage outside of things to hate on or pass the blame on others. But the fact remains is, just like a lot of Hispanics, THEY can't get out of the "Ghetto" mentality. Ppl make something of themselves, go into the military... see the world... then go right back to where they came from and get shot dead at a street light. WHY? Because if they tried to move their family out of the ghetto they're race traders. When all else fails like during the Rodney King riots, did they {the black ppl} formulate into mobs and burn down Beverly Hills??? NOPE, they looted and burnt down their own neighborhoods like idiots. As in my father's time growing up a high yellow black, he wasn't accepted by the whites, and wasn't black enough to date a fellow black. All he saw was when a black man got promoted, and another wanted a helping hand 8.5 times out of 10, the common response was: Nigga' you got to be outta' your mind, THIS IS MY MONEY!

So honestly, I'd say a lot of blacks still have the "Plantation Mentality", but they keep themselves in that mindset because it's easier to behave that way. To some degree I had that problem too, just not with the race issues, but with my own stupid private war against society being "Contra/Militant" to everything which thankfully I've made peace with. ---Bottom line, no one has but themselves to blame if they don't look ahead and do something with their lives, then give back to the ppl who did help you or believed in you along the way. Thus I don't see why people are down on the Asians always being head of the class or having money... they at least help each other out. I thank GOD I've never been so shallow minded on the racial thing.

MERCENARY X99

Click to expand...

I agree with every single word you have said... I come from a country that's basically all black (Jamaica) and 3/4 of the population is dirt ass poor... yet many of them would KILL for opportunities many African Americans have in this country... the get FREE ass high school... that alone is something many impoverished people in the world don't have.

Many of my other family members and friends from the Caribbean also believe many African Americans are not living up to Martin Luther kings dream... I think they are throwing it all away for the biggest nothing there is.... Asian Americans and Jewish people are very different in their mentality... same as many Caribbean people see the opportunities presented to them... the work hard, and they taste their success... unlike most black people in the US.

What if another 40yrs passed by and the African Americans are still at the "bottom of the heap." It would be a very sad thing....

... Anyways... I greatly respect anyone who takes advantage of whatever situation they have... but I don't respect the negative mentally pushed by some... especially through the media... screw them all, cause they live in total comfort and drive escalades... yet the poor black man is not encuraged to make the BEST of things in the ghetto.

That's fucked up IMO, thank God though there are some smarter and stronger than that!

C.A.R25 said:

Asian Americans and Jewish people are very different in their mentality... same as many Caribbean people see the opportunities presented to them... the work hard, and they taste their success... unlike most black people in the US.

Click to expand...

That is quite possibly the most sweeping generalization I've ever read...on top of being surprisingly racist. You're one of those people that shouts "get a job" to homeless people aren't you?

Jamaica is a developing country...it CANNOT compare to the United States. If YOU were born and raised in an American ghetto there is a 1 in 3 chance you will go to jail instead of highschool...this is a cultural problem that can't be answered with a single sentence. The best metaphor I can think of is of subruban America being the shining white castle and the ghettos being the peasants outside. It is definately a respectable feet for a black man (or even better, a woman) to scale that wall and become successful. It should be encouraged, and it is, but you can't characterize these people as "lazy". It's innaccurate and stupid.

For the record, I'm caribbean as well...and Puerto Ricans get it just as bad as black people do. I was blessed to be raised in the suburbs, but I've seen what the ghetto is like.

Yes Black Americans have a lot of opportunities, and some squander them, but it is NOT the majority.

BoriquaSNK said:

For the record, I'm caribbean as well...and Puerto Ricans get it just as bad as black people do. I was blessed to be raised in the suburbs, but I've seen what the ghetto is like.

Click to expand...

I'm mostly Chamorro (from Guam) and I'm also blessed to be raised in the suburbs. Life could've been a lot worse for me growing up, that's for sure.

Merc is a genius, one of the few long-winded posts of his I actually read in it's entirety.

I live in what people would (and do) call an affluent (predominately)white neighborhood. To hazard a guess I'd say my high school class was probably 10-15% black, so I have a larger sampling that broken's example. Now, to hazard another guess, I'd say a good 85% of these black kids were of the "fried chicken eating, ebonics speaking, hip hop listening thugs and skeezers" archetype. I'm not trying to be insulting, but thats just how they projected themselves to each other and to the world. Many of them did poorly in school on PURPOSE, and prided themselves on that fact.

I'm all for racial equality, world peace, blah blah blah, but seriously, I can't be expected to constantly foster positive race-relations (as an "affluent white person") when these people have such mind-numbingly self defeating behaviors.

Great post Merc 99.

I can only add, being a moron that I am, that sadly it didn't have tihcky thick chicks, praise for Jesus as your lord and savior, close quarters combat, and hot sex.

broken said:

This is probably the most intelligent post about ANYTHING I have ever seen on this site by ANYONE. I would say, in a nutshell, this man has hit the nail square on the head.

Click to expand...

WOW, I never thought I'd get a compliment from broken on anything. *Guess having dropped my own form of "Slave Mind" wrapped in all my militant bullshit has done some good. I'm actually making sense and ppl are generally not so stand offish anymore {outside of the forums I mean}. That's part of why I understand what beelze was asking, but it's on the filp side of racial hatred.

The same thing can happen to a person who never stops their forward momentum of "Learning" outside of a school curriculum. You see, growing up a literal HEINZ 57 with a very historically rich background I was never told I was dumb the way other kids are, and when some other kid told me something that was going to keep me down, I didn't believe it. My father raised me the way he thought best, he found his success in the military, having served for 23 years, the last 12 as a T.I. ~I didn't realize this until some heavy reflection that from the time I could crawl I more or less idolized the man, then when he had made a mistake and had an affair, it destroyed the unity between me and him and my mother {I'm an only child}. Thus I retreated unknowingly into my "personal studies" and continued identifying with past people's, {mostly military minds} and my militantcy became ridiculous, as many of you unfortunately have seen in the past with me. To some degree I still feel this way, I won't lie... that a good chunk of the ppl who would appreciate my mind, and how I feel all died before I was born, and that I'm alone in the world. But it's all bullshit. Instead of just accepting ppl for who they are, I wanted to change everyone else to think at my sporadic/dimensional way of doing things. I wanted to take the plight of all the blue collar people and band them together in some sort of "Revolution" against society itself starting as a social movement {non violent} and working it's way up. This however, became dangerous because I would push away anyone who got too close but wasn't committed to "The Dream" in the manner I was. This in and within itself is also a "SLAVE MIND".

I allowed myself to stay in bondage to my own idealism with having known too much about all of my ethnic heritages, military history, world history and always reading/absorbing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. I can't believe how many year I wasted tracking down any ex-military types to train me, train me for what exactly I now ask myself? So as not to pick on people who are in worse conditions than what I had to go through, I will say that a person who is encouraged to emancipate themselves {with Jesus's blessing if you believe} through education... that same kind of person regardless of skin color can also backfire. I'm finally going to go back to school {College} and pick up the pieces of my life I let go for absolute bullshit. If the day ever comes that a "Changing of the Guard" does happen from the ground up, I have enough skillz and knowledge to help but I'm not waiting for the Soviets or anyone else anymore. This personal testimony is because it's in line with ppl of the "Slave Mind" to racial misunderstanding and the lessed quality of life people do give to themselves.

BoriquaSNK said:

I respectfully disagree with a couple of your (and Merc's) points. The idea that people refusing to leave the ghetto because they want to "belong" (i.e. not be traitors) is bullshit. No one WANTS to live in the ghetto, it's very desperate. The only people that live there are people that have no other options. I agree that a lot of the ghetto has refused to help itself, but there are a few important and key reasons for this (IMO):

1. Lack of leadership: There are very few coherent leaders for black civil rights today. The first three that come to most people's mind are Sharpton, Jackson, and Farakhan...followed closely by a loud laugh. Such is the state of the modern civil rights movement. This is beginning to change with visionaries like Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, and I even think Al Sharpton has done wonders for the movement by making it less of a "black" problem and more of a "minority" problem, which is exactly what it is.

Click to expand...

I'd say this is true to a point, and while I didn't grow up in some "Bullet Alley" side of Los Angeles or anything, SATX had it's own Gang problems and drive bys and overall gangsta' bullshit back in the early 90s. There are in fact people who live in what others consider "The Ghetto/Barrio" who aren't into crime and what not, but who don't see a problem with living where they live. They in fact do have means at time to leave but they don't. It's what they know, and some of their children who don't get caught up in the "Slave Mentality" end up victims to those who are blinded by it... and simply because the elders didn't see a need to leave. Heck there's an interview with John Singleton in last month's GAME INFORMER, where he states clearly {it might have been Snoop} that people take pride in their community and it's not all blood & guts... and that's a good thing, which brings us to your VERY GOOD POINT I might add about no good leadership.

This is something that is lacking, and is the reason thought provoking and uplifting films like Always Outnumbered, Always Outgunned based on the novel by Walter Mosley starring Lawrence Fishburne in his best role... was kept at large from the black communities. WHY? *Because it's story has a message to the troubled youth, it's a story that would envoke pride in a black man who's living with the "Slave Mentality". On this note, I will say that certain elements of society outside of the black community indeed does have a private agenda, and it's a known fact the film was originaly slated to go to theatres across the nation, then it was put straight to HBO and largely dissapeared into obscurity. Few ppl know about it. ON THIS I FRIMLY BELIEVE, that it was kept from a large audience so that crap like Meance II Society and all manner of contemporary fluff glorifying the "Hip Hop" stuff would flourish, because GOD FORBID a meaninful story that might have the impact to change lives be released. But I'll get off on that. Without some leadership roles to look up to in mentor-apprentice roles socially, it's hard to change an attitude, but the bottom line is a person needs to make the desicion to change first. I believe everything I have said here also extends to your points on #2 and #3 as well. I'm just glad to finally have a meaningfull discussion and not it degenerate into flame bait.

What's the point all people are equal and there to milk from the point of your corporate masters.

As for this thread, I don't really care.

The problems and issues facing the black and latino communities aren't my problem and as such I don't give a flying fuck who does well and who doesn't.

Why the Jews and Asians do well? I dunno maybe its because their cultures are geared towards intellectualism. The black and latino communities fuck themselves in the ass in the exact way italian and irish americans did for decades by having an anti-intellectual climate in their respective communities. At the present Irish-
American communities no long really exist outside of Boston and those that still do now embrace mainstream values. As for italian-americans well the anti-intellectual attitude that was so pervausive for decades is on its death bed and outside of the occasional relic the ever rising amount of Italian-American professionals is a testiment to that.

The Latino communities around the country are beginning to go through that same assimilation process, the problem is that its hard to see in the face of constant new arrivals and they're outpacing African-Americans in terms of economic development.

Generalizations are fair when its evident that pervausive attitudes exist throughout the culture of a community, of course there are exceptions but that doesn't mean it isnt true when a clear majority hold those beliefs.

I really think you should wake up, acknowledge you're a white as fuck Puerto Rican or not you're about as relevent as Greg Geraldo to the current urban culture in most neighborhoods. Its also time to abandon the PC worldview taught by Captian Planet, PBS, and Hippy Douches everywhere.

It's also time to abandon the worldview taught by Captian Planet, PBS, and the Superfriends.

At the present point in time the black community is its own worst enemy and their culture needs to change before they make any progress en mass.

BoriquaSNK said:

That is quite possibly the most sweeping generalization I've ever read...on top of being surprisingly racist. You're one of those people that shouts "get a job" to homeless people aren't you?

Jamaica is a developing country...it CANNOT compare to the United States. If YOU were born and raised in an American ghetto there is a 1 in 3 chance you will go to jail instead of highschool...this is a cultural problem that can't be answered with a single sentence. The best metaphor I can think of is of subruban America being the shining white castle and the ghettos being the peasants outside. It is definately a respectable feet for a black man (or even better, a woman) to scale that wall and become successful. It should be encouraged, and it is, but you can't characterize these people as "lazy". It's innaccurate and stupid.

For the record, I'm caribbean as well...and Puerto Ricans get it just as bad as black people do. I was blessed to be raised in the suburbs, but I've seen what the ghetto is like.

Yes Black Americans have a lot of opportunities, and some squander them, but it is NOT the majority.

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BoriquaSNK said:

That is quite possibly the most sweeping generalization I've ever read...on top of being surprisingly racist. You're one of those people that shouts "get a job" to homeless people aren't you?

Jamaica is a developing country...it CANNOT compare to the United States. If YOU were born and raised in an American ghetto there is a 1 in 3 chance you will go to jail instead of highschool...this is a cultural problem that can't be answered with a single sentence. The best metaphor I can think of is of subruban America being the shining white castle and the ghettos being the peasants outside. It is definately a respectable feet for a black man (or even better, a woman) to scale that wall and become successful. It should be encouraged, and it is, but you can't characterize these people as "lazy". It's innaccurate and stupid.

For the record, I'm caribbean as well...and Puerto Ricans get it just as bad as black people do. I was blessed to be raised in the suburbs, but I've seen what the ghetto is like.

Yes Black Americans have a lot of opportunities, and some squander them, but it is NOT the majority.

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Yes I am a "racist" black guy just because I am not sugar coating the situation right ? No wander Mr Bill Cosby got no love when he made constructive criticisms to the black community.

It's this rejection of such criticisms as well as everyone wanting a "hand me down" that will lead to no advances in some communities.

The very fact that more blacks are born/ raised in poorer communities amplifies the reasons why "leaders" should be setting better examples and encouraging the black youth in a more positive way.

Hey... what if even 100 years pass and the illegal immigrant community does better than black people in America... there are people from the Middle East who migrated to America after being tortured from Saddam... and they came with very little... My Grandfather and my father never saw the inside of a High school and they are successful business men... don't you think that reflects badly on a situation other than environment?

As I stated before... if the black community don't change their outlook, some still wont be living the "American dream" couple decades down the road.

Life is not filled with handouts, and living in as a poor person would be an even greater reason to bust you’r ass through school and make a better life using what little you have.

You made good pts here...

BoriquaSNK said:

I respectfully disagree with a couple of your (and Merc's) points. The idea that people refusing to leave the ghetto because they want to "belong" (i.e. not be traitors) is bullshit. No one WANTS to live in the ghetto, it's very desperate. The only people that live there are people that have no other options. I agree that a lot of the ghetto has refused to help itself, but there are a few important and key reasons for this (IMO):

1. Lack of leadership: There are very few coherent leaders for black civil rights today. The first three that come to most people's mind are Sharpton, Jackson, and Farakhan...followed closely by a loud laugh. Such is the state of the modern civil rights movement. This is beginning to change with visionaries like Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, and I even think Al Sharpton has done wonders for the movement by making it less of a "black" problem and more of a "minority" problem, which is exactly what it is.

2. Lack of Infrastructure: Go to Northwest D.C or North Philly and try and find any of the bustling opportunities a lot of suburban people (myself included) speak of. They simply aren't there. Real job opportunities are few and far between, and there is a significant glass ceiling for urban peoplz in the work force. Frankly, it's tough to move up in the commercial service industry (hotels, restaurants, etc) and that's what the majority of jobs in the ghetto are.

3. Lack of Education: Schools fucking suck in the city. Couple that with the proposed voucher programs and we would see the further strangling of public schools. The only real remedy for this under the Bush Admin is for privately funded (but non-corporate) public charter schools. This is working wonderfully in Philly for gifted kids, I think it should extend to more at risk neighborhoods as well. Unfortunately, this eliminates the possibility for teacher unions, but I think that the education crisis is a bit more important right now.

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I disagreed on your other post... but I agree with the points you made here with the exeption of " Al Sharpton has done wonders for the movement by making it less of a "black" problem and more of a "minority" problem, which is exactly what it is."

How do you explain why Asians, Jewish people, people from the middle east and India are doing very well?

Buro Destruct said:

Merc is a genius, one of the few long-winded posts of his I actually read in it's entirety.

I live in what people would (and do) call an affluent (predominately)white neighborhood. To hazard a guess I'd say my high school class was probably 10-15% black, so I have a larger sampling that broken's example. Now, to hazard another guess, I'd say a good 85% of these black kids were of the "fried chicken eating, ebonics speaking, hip hop listening thugs and skeezers" archetype. I'm not trying to be insulting, but thats just how they projected themselves to each other and to the world. Many of them did poorly in school on PURPOSE, and prided themselves on that fact.

I'm all for racial equality, world peace, blah blah blah, but seriously, I can't be expected to constantly foster positive race-relations (as an "affluent white person") when these people have such mind-numbingly self defeating behaviors.

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I thought it'd be a good idea to post in this thread because I've made some
pretty racist posts over the years I've been here.

I quoted Buro because I come from the same situation. I've, for the most part,
always lived in an enviroment, "suburbia" if you will, that fostered pretty big
racial biases and being raised in the south doesn't help matters much.

I love being southern, but not to break away from the post - I've always been
around and had money, my friends had money, blah blah blah. We've also been
raised with a certain viewpoint about african-americans. Mostly that they are
lazy, greasy, uneducated and pretty disgusting.

Some of you may find this offensive, but even though I know that isn't the case,
I still go along with it and it's never far from my mind, nor my friends minds.

It's sort of looked at like this:

You've got

A) African-americans

and

B) Niggers

You also have white trash, but since you never really see much of it where I've
grown up (even though Memphis has three of the poorest zip codes in the US),
even though it's there - you just stay away from it.

From the time I was little, it was always private schools until I reached high
school, and I wanted to try something different. I hadn't really noticed racism
until I switched, and even then it was a county school and not a city school.

Everyone, including my parents, told us to keep out of the city and that the
city schools were full of uneducated blacks that wanted to rob and kill us.
We shook it off, but over the course of 4 years they tried to intergrate the
school systems and sure enough - when the blacks came in, everything went
to hell. I graduated right before it happened and as soon as my brother went
this year, they arrested 11 people (all black) for gang fights.

I say all this in sort of a jumbled way, because in my head it all adds up to
where I am now, but it might not make sense to any of you.

You just sort of know you have this racial problem, but you don't really change
your mind because it's just with you.

I tried dating a black girl to see if that would work and it lasted about 2 weeks
just long enough for me to see her in her home enviroment and for my parents
to find out at which point it would have ended anyway.

Racism just stays in the back of your mind, and as much as you'd like to think
differently, it stays all the same.

I also tried working in a black enviroment to try and break myself of it, but
they just kept pointing out how different I was, and how I should "open"
my eyes because I was some suburban white kid trying to "take over" their
enviroment. My parents quickly pulled the plug.

It's the first time I'd ever heard the word "uppity" and it's the first time I'd
ever learned what "Uncle Tom" was because someone told me if I said that,
they'd get the point. I didn't get what point until I said it out of anger because
of the uppity thing. They just sort of sat there and they must have known I
didn't know what it meant, because they told me what it meant and didn't
really offer a reaction.

It didn't ever seem like they wanted me to learn about blacks and the differences
and ways they live and act, and they didn't seem very interested in me either.

I got to college and it just made itself even more apparent.

I'm in the Greek System and we had to sit through this meeting where the Inter -Frat council was asked about racial intergration in the Greek System.

All the white frats said that they were making efforts and they had a few black
members and they were trying to get more. The black frats (only two) whined
about not having enough power and said they wouldn't intergrate because
they didn't think it was a "good" idea.

I think that's bullshit.

The only african-americans I see here are the lazy, loud, dirty, blinged out, ebonics
using ones that I've seen everywhere I've ever been.

The point of all this shit was to say that even though we know there is a difference - most of the time we don't see it. All you hear about is whining about racial equality, but you never see attempts to be equal on both sides, they just want
it all.

I get pretty worked up about the "equality" issue, because it's not really fair to
anyone else but them.

You label a bar "black only" and nobody complains.

You label a bar "white only" and you've got more trouble than you know what
to do with.

Where's the equality in that?

Race card? What the fuck is that?

NAACP? Holy shit, you better bow down or they'll kill you in a wave of publicity.

I don't hate blacks, I just don't really understand them.


Edit: I'm also Jewish.

Your people were oppressed for labor and you want to bitch?

Guess fucking what, hotshot.

Mine were oppressed twice, and once was in an oven baking.

shir0 said:

Edit: I'm also Jewish.

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Hahahahaha. Everyone look at this dumb Jew right here.