What is your current opinion of Nintendo?

Talk.

EDIT: THE "Y" won't work!!!!!

This topic is just asking for a torrent of flames.
But anyway, I'm not a big Nintendo fan anymore. Yes, I think they're approach is too kiddie-centric and I'm not a huge fan of Zelda or Mario.

I, like most gamers here (with some notable exceptions, cough cough Takumaji), grew up with the big 'N', loving the works of Shigeru Miyamoto, Gumpei Yokoi and crew. I think they need to do something major to get back into the good graces of all the major third party companies, as well as create on hell of a next-gen system to get back in the game. It's not that difficult:

1. EMBRACE ONLINE GAMING. Mario Kart, Pac-Man VS., Mario Tennis, so many of their games would make for insanely fun online gaming. These are all four player games anyway, and would draw a lot of interest

2. RETURN OF THE NES/FAMICOM BRAND NAME: NES means a lot to many gamers. GameCube and N64 were pretty weak names for hardware, I think calling the next system the Hyper Famicom and Hyper NES in Japan/US respectively would do a lot for gamers and the industry psychologically, signalling the big comeback.

3. MEND THE FENCES, GIVE THIRD PARTIES HANDJOBS: You know what I mean. Whatever the standard deal Sony gets from third party royalties, cut it in half. Make the other guys such a good deal they won't be able to ignore your new console. You can also do this by...

4. CREATE THE MOST BITCHIN' NEXT-GEN CONSOLE: You did it before, you can do it again. Make a system that rivals the NES and Super Famicom for beauty. Go back to the classic color schemes, white/black/gray with some red buttons. Include broadband connectivity right out of the box. Do what the other guys have done, but with your own special touch and gift for creating awesome controllers. All Sony did was jock your SuperNES pad for the PlayStation controller, take that shit right back.

Don't make it look like a lunchbox. Get the third parties to open up the floodgates by mending fences and offering the best publishing deal any hardware manufacturer's willing to offer. You guys can do it, you still offer better 1st party games than anyone else in the industry, as well as making the best controllers around. Pull your heads out of your asses.

Loopz said:

I, like most gamers here (with some notable exceptions, cough cough Takumaji), grew up with the big 'N', loving the works of Shigeru Miyamoto, Gumpei Yokoi and crew. I think they need to do something major to get back into the good graces of all the major third party companies, as well as create on hell of a next-gen system to get back in the game. It's not that difficult:

1. EMBRACE ONLINE GAMING. Mario Kart, Pac-Man VS., Mario Tennis, so many of their games would make for insanely fun online gaming. These are all four player games anyway, and would draw a lot of interest

2. RETURN OF THE NES/FAMICOM BRAND NAME: NES means a lot to many gamers. GameCube and N64 were pretty weak names for hardware, I think calling the next system the Hyper Famicom and Hyper NES in Japan/US respectively would do a lot for gamers and the industry psychologically, signalling the big comeback.

3. MEND THE FENCES, GIVE THIRD PARTIES HANDJOBS: You know what I mean. Whatever the standard deal Sony gets from third party royalties, cut it in half. Make the other guys such a good deal they won't be able to ignore your new console. You can also do this by...

4. CREATE THE MOST BITCHIN' NEXT-GEN CONSOLE: You did it before, you can do it again. Make a system that rivals the NES and Super Famicom for beauty. Go back to the classic color schemes, white/black/gray with some red buttons. Include broadband connectivity right out of the box. Do what the other guys have done, but with your own special touch and gift for creating awesome controllers. All Sony did was jock your SuperNES pad for the PlayStation controller, take that shit right back.

Don't make it look like a lunchbox. Get the third parties to opne up the floodgates by mending fences and offering the best publishing deal any hardware manufacturer's willing to offer. You guys can do it, you still offer better 1st party games than anyone else in the industry, as well as making the best controllers around. Pull your heads out of your asses.

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ABSO-FUCKEN-LUTELY.

My problem is I see N going anywhere form way way up to way way down, and given the turmoil internally with Yamauchi's departure, and their rumored relation with Warp Pipe/Desyncer I have no idea where they're at with Revolution.


But as my and some guys said at work:

Wouldn't it rock so hard if their next system was the Nintendo RES? The Nintendo Revolutionary Entertainment System?

I tried that Metroid demo on the DS. I'm not using a fucking pencil to play a video game. Whatever happened to a decent analog stick. Charging 150 for a system with PSone graphics, when I can get a PSone for 50 that has a much better library of games. I honestly don't think the DS is anybetter than the Ngage at this point.

SamuraiShodownSensei said:

I tried that Metroid demo on the DS. I'm not using a fucking pencil to play a video game. Whatever happened to a decent analog stick. Charging 150 for a system with PSone graphics, when I can get a PSone for 50 that has a much better library of games. I honestly don't think the DS is anybetter than the Ngage at this point.

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...

I can think of two methods that don'tuse the touch screen off hand.

One you can try on the demo.

jethrek said:

...

I can think of two methods that don'tuse the touch screen off hand.

One you can try on the demo.

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Oh I'm sure you can change the control setup to use X and A to look up and down or something to that effect. I just don't see playing a 3d game with a first person perspective using a digital pad.

Stylus or no stylus the DS still blows.

Mainstreem conditioning via Playstation has lead to Nintendo alienating them with their ethos.

Their strength lies in innovation; it's also their biggest downfall.

Loopz seems to have made most of the important points. I'd just like to add that, while I can appreciate the fact that they attempt to make their titles "ageless", I still think they could benefit by giving more attention to the older generation of gamers.

One resident evil title per year doesn't quite cut it anymore. And the GC controller is just too damned small. Why couldn't they have made it the same size as the N64 controller? The d-pad shrunk to about 50% of its original size??!! WTF?

I think Nintendo needs to realize that the generation of gamers that bought NES games, and made their company what it is today, has grown up. We love the Mario titles and the Zelda titles, but some more mature (not bloody porn shit, mind you) titles could give the big N a big shot in the arm.

My opinion of Nintendo has been 'pending' for quite some time, which basically means I cant decide wether I like them or not.
They can spend ages faffing arround, producing gimmicky little ideas and perhiperals and games that dont interest me, but then all of a sudden they will pump out something that is just sublime digital gold, and I'll remember why Nintendo are held in such high regard all over again.

They are the ultimate 'Wait and see' company.

Baseley09 said:

Mainstreem conditioning via Playstation has lead to Nintendo alienating them with their ethos.

Their strength lies in innovation; it's also their biggest downfall.

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This is the kind of thinking I can't understand at all. "Mainstream conditioning via Playstation"?? NES, SNES = MAINSTREAM. There has never been a console more mainstream than those two. Playstation may equal it now, but they only became mainstream by default when Nintendo lost all their sense with the N64. You make it sound like Nintendo were these revolutionary risk takers. They weren't...until Virtual Boy.

With NES and SNES, they just provided the kick ass games that gamers wanted. If I wanted a racing game, the best one available was on SNES. If I wanted an RPG, the best one was available on SNES. If I wanted Street Fighter, the best one was available on SNES (until 3DO later, but that's another story). Any game category, they had it completely covered. Ports of arcade favorites, they had them.

Where were ANY of those categories on N64?! Nowhere. For racing, they did have SF Rush, which was cool, but other than that, and the inferior RR64, there wasn't really anything.

Where were their fighters? RPGs? Shit, even on GC, where are the fighters? What is there besides CVS2? It's no one's fault except Nintendo, that gamers went somewhere else.

They have absolutely awesome first party games that I love, but offering that, and not much else, is not what I call 'ethos'. I think blaming Sony for Nintendo not doing well is the biggest cop out since Cain asked if he was his brother's keeper. That was some years ago, now.

Gamecube was a step in the right direction, but it's like a dentist that accidentally drilled a hole in your jaw. You've already switched dentists, you need a dang good reason to switch back. Him just promising not to fuck you up again is a start, but not enough by itself. I love Nintendo -- always have, always will -- but other than handheld stuff which they've never disappointed me on, I only buy first party stuff from them, because I know if I run out of shelf space for consoles and games, GC is definitely the first back in the box. N64 is loooooong back in the box, while DC and an import PS1 are still out and get semi-regular play. Nintendo has a lot of work left to do to change my thinking on that.

Hopefully, their next console will be the one to do that. But I won't buy a third console from them, for basically only 3 games. I love Zelda and Mario, but I just won't do it again; there needs to be more for me. They better get it right this time, like they did in the old days. I believe they can, and I hope they will.

The have gone totally insane, and are ingnorant of the market today. What happened to the great "N"? Pokemon can only keep me coming back for so long...

I can't vote. My choice is, "they are ignorant of the market but nothing is going to change."

By nothing changing, I am talking of their attitude toward the market and of course, their place in the market. They seem content being wherever they are, so long as they are making money. While, like the N64, no 3rd party companies may be making much money on the 'Cube, you can bet your left testicle and grind it into oatmeal that they are sure as FUCK making money on it.

If they focus on the DS, I have feeling come time for the PSP to launch they are going to lose market. It's just like it was when the Genesis was released. Nintendo was content to rest on what worked, the NES, and let the competition sneak up behind them and dry fuck them in the ass with a 12 foot dong. At least with the DS they TRIED to design some competition for a change, however, given the movie and other bullshit capabilities of the PSP, Nintendo may lost market no matter what they do.

No matter how I look at it, I still can't see them changing. I don't see their profits falling (if there is one thing they know how to do, it's make money), I don't see their home systems doing better or worse, but I have to say the handheld market isn't a sure thing anymore.

Maybe the world will get lucky and the PSP will be Sony's Virtual Boy?

We should re-vote on this nearer to the end of the year after GC Zelda and a bunch of kickass DS games have been released.
I think they should have saved the Zelda game for the Revolution as a LAUNCH title...
if it meant that I had to wait another 6 months or so to get that game, well...so be it.
The presence of a killer app at launch can not be underrated.

slerch666 said:

It's just like it was when the Genesis was released. Nintendo was content to rest on what worked, the NES, and let the competition sneak up behind them and dry fuck them in the ass with a 12 foot dong.

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slerch666 said:

If they focus on the DS, I have feeling come time for the PSP to launch they are going to lose market.

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One of their mistakes with N64 was sticking with carts after they had ceased to be a viable media for home consoles. You could just do more with CDs, and people adjusted to waiting for loading. If N64 had been CD based, it would have opened up so many other posibilities to them and 3rd party developers.

I played PSP Darkstalkers today, and I don't like the loading, but I'll adjust to it. I look at DS Ridge Racer and PSP Ridge Racer, and I hope Nintendo hasn't repeated their mistake of sticking to carts one system too long.

dark penguin said:

We should re-vote on this nearer to the end of the year after GC Zelda and a bunch of kickass DS games have been released.

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More over-reliance on first party. That's been their number one biggest mistake over the last however many years, so I hope they won't continue on that track. I hope they make a system that more 3rd party games can shine on.

Gameboy is their ACE.

Gamecube has too many premier titles that just didn't quite capture the old magic the way they should have (Starfox, Mario Sunshine, 1080, Waverace). They were technically sound and looked great, just no magic.... and that's what N was about.

DS is a detour. Before it's all over every other game will have the word "Touch" in it. I like the DS but I despise the touch screen unless it really works (ie, maybe for RPGs). I don't want it forced into the game. I would love a new Gameboy with a screen as nice as the DS.

I definitely still enjoy the games and I think their platforms are worth buying.


I guess what's more important is that I don't find the old gaming magic/excitement from any of the current platforms. You know, the games that you really got excited about and couldn't wait for. It could be me getting old, could be just that it takes more to impress me. But I really think that they are just too focused on the technical stuff and they have lost sight of playability.

Even on Saturn, when a new shooter was coming out, I COULDN'T WAIT! New racing games used to get me cranked up. I'd get a new 2d fighting game on Saturn and play it to death. Maybe even an RPG or gun shooter... (leaving Neo out b/c it's a different beast)

Oh well...

B

I feel the same way about them as I do about every gaming company: you give me good games and I'll give you my money.

Unlike most people here, I dont whine about this kind of shit, and enjoy most of what Nintendo produces.

All I want to add to this thread is one simple thing...

Can you imagine what a 2.5D original Mario game would be like on the Cube?
I mean, we got a hint of it in Super Smash Bros. Melee in the adventure stages.
It would be utterly fantastic, insanely fun, and would sell out the ass.
Super Mario Sunshine blew chunks. Give us what we really want.

Loopz said:

All I want to add to this thread is one simple thing...

Can you imagine what a 2.5D original Mario game would be like on the Cube?
I mean, we got a hint of it in Super Smash Bros. Melee in the adventure stages.
It would be utterly fantastic, insanely fun, and would sell out the ass.
Super Mario Sunshine blew chunks. Give us what we really want.

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Its not about what you want. Its about what the people making the games want as they are the artists creating the work.

Like most people I started playing games on the nes. In my opinion Nintendo is still the best game company. I think the number one thing hurting them is no online games. I really don't care for it but the rest of the world does. Look at the numbers how many crappy games sell just because they have online play. Nintendo will never be able to be number 1 in the consoles because it's not just gamers buying games anymore. Tons of people will buy a system just for one game like XBOX for Halo 2 or PS2 for GTA series. Metroid Prime 2 is better then GTA and just as fun as Halo 2 but it probably hasn't sold half as many because all the media cares about is GTA and Halo While I do like Halo GTA is the shittiest game series ever.

i agree with loopz, a mario that played like kloana would be pretty fun.
i think nintendo is pretty quickly going down hill, not because of lack of
effort, but just the wrong moves.
and not embracing online hurts too.
the stupid fucks released a dial up and a bb adaptor for the fucker.
what game uses it?
ps fucking o and mario kart for "lan"
i m torn too, because despite it's neatness i think the ds is a bad idea in the end.
the psp will blow it out of the water, people are graphic whores and
given the great division in graphic appeal in both I think you will
see people getting or 'holding out' for a psp, similar to what people did with the ps2
all i would hear at the store was, i'm just saving up for a ps2 back in the day.
screw the dc, i want a system that breaks down.
but it has a dvd player. so it's all good.

SouthtownKid said:

This is the kind of thinking I can't understand at all. "Mainstream conditioning via Playstation"?? NES, SNES = MAINSTREAM. There has never been a console more mainstream than those two. Playstation may equal it now, but they only became mainstream by default when Nintendo lost all their sense with the N64. You make it sound like Nintendo were these revolutionary risk takers. They weren't...until Virtual Boy.

With NES and SNES, they just provided the kick ass games that gamers wanted. If I wanted a racing game, the best one available was on SNES. If I wanted an RPG, the best one was available on SNES. If I wanted Street Fighter, the best one was available on SNES (until 3DO later, but that's another story). Any game category, they had it completely covered. Ports of arcade favorites, they had

Hopefully, their next console will be the one to do that. But I won't buy a third console from them, for basically only 3 games. I love Zelda and Mario, but I just won't do it again; there needs to be more for me. They better get it right this time, like they did in the old days. I believe they can, and I hope they will.

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#1> I have to disagree with you bro, on the notation that the original FAMICOM/NES was mainstream... I mean it was, but as opposed to what? What competition was there? Until SEGA one upped them early on in the 16-Bit wars NINTENDO swung a big dick and threw it on every tabletop in the world. Their business practices were right out of a Yakuza's handbook, and third party developers got ass raped left and right 90% of the time, signing clauses that wouldn't let them develop for anyone else. Thus on what basis would that make the original system "Mainstream"??? The SEGA SG-1000 Mark III / Master System was never any REAL competition at all, thus if the only flavor you have is Vanilla in every ice cream parlour around, with like one out of every thousand having chocolate... by default you're going to eat vanilla.

#2> Yeah, on both Famicom/NES and Super Famicom/SNES the first party games were fo' shizzle indeed, no question on that. It's that brand of magic that is a must if Nintendo is going to make it over the top again. *But then you have the crap they pulled with Star Fox Adventures... they took a game that was originally going to be an N64 game called "Dinosaur World" that had cameos of Star Fox characters, then decided to make the game revolve around the Star Fox franchise itself, changed the name and made a game that really wasn't what Star Fox gamers wanted. Sure some liked it, but it wasn't Star Fox, leaving the last good version on the N64. More moves like that will put the nail in the coffin.

#3> I hear you on that man. I love Nintendo, {fuck I'm just now really enjoying the N64} but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy another system just for more of the same. I really think LOOPZ's ideas are the best I've seen and he should just cut & paste that post and email it to NINTENDO too. Fuck calling the system a "Revolution" just call it the Hyper Famicom {and actually for once call it that in the USA too} and get it over with. With all the ear marks of the past systems, and really knock the fuckin' door down. ---Sadly though, I just don't see NINTENDO going this route, instead they want to do things in this half assed way that will lead them the route of their 16-Bit competitor SEGA.

I'd like to vote, but I just can't.

MERCENARY X99

Mercenary X99 said:

#1> I have to disagree with you bro, on the notation that the original FAMICOM/NES was mainstream...

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It was more mainstream than Atari was. When Atari was out, people would say, "He's playing video games," or "He's playing computer games". At the time of NES, it didn't matter what you were doing, moms across America would say their kid was "playing Nintendo." Shit, even a lot of kids used to say that. There's no way around it, that is as mainstream as you can get.

At the time it was out, you could say the words "Master System," and get a blank stare from 49 out of 50 people. But everyone and their grandma knew what Nintendo was. And Famicom was even bigger in Japan than NES was here. Competition has nothing to do with mainstreamness, it's about public awarenesss and acceptance. The fact that it was almost as common to have a Famicom as a VCR means mainstream.

I just don't want people to think liking Ninteno is some kind of counter culture, rebel, obscure thing. Like Nintendo is fightin' the man, or something. Everything people complain about Sony doing to competition -- flooding the market, squeezing out the little guy -- they learned from watching Nintendo do it.