The college system today is terrible; Mainly ELM Testing.

I know this doesn't mean much to a lot of you but I have to vent. I am a 18 year old caucasian freshman attending college at Sonoma State University. After being a student here for a full semester I have come to the conclusion that the college system is complete bullshit. First off, affirmative action is ridiculous. I believe that whoever fufills the most requirements should be placed in the college or class that they want to be in; I don't think it should be easier or harder depending on what race you are. I understand that some people such as foreign students who do not speak English as their native language will obviously not score as high in English as a person originally from America but giving someone an easier time based solely off of the fact that they are Asian, Mexican, or black is just plain stupid and unfair. I worked my ass off in high school for four years, in English especially. I had A's in English straight through my high school year and when I come to college I am placed in the lowest possible English class while my Japanese girlfriend who just learned English over the past eight months is placed in general education English. There is something wrong when I am in two English classes lower than her but helping her with words and revising her essays. Supposedly I was placed in the English I am in now due to low ELM scores. ELM tests may work well for some people but for other people they don't. Not everyone does well on timed tests. I can't write a good essay and state the meanings of 50+ vocabulary words in an hour; it just isn't going to happen. Does this mean that I am not good in English? No, it just means I don't do well on timed tests and essays, or maybe I was just having a bad day. My English class requires a tutor and every time he reads one of my essays he tells me that I should be in a much higher class than what I was placed in. This same story repeats itself for many other people in all sorts of different college classes, not just in English. Now I have to waste time doing remedial classes that I shouldn't have to be doing and waste thousands of extra dollars for more schooling. I can figure out what level of schooling I need to be in on my own, I do not need someone doing it for me. Judging ones abilities based on a single timed test or giving someone an easier time because of their race is ridiculous in my opinion, I feel cheated. Today it is near impossible to graduate from a State college in the standard four years.

Asians hardly have a easier time getting into college.

In fact, it's almost always the exact opposite.

Edit: Put harder when I meant to put easier...whoops.

Blah-blah-blah.

I am not affected by affirmative action, yet I got into a top tier university and a top 20 law school.

many of my classmates in HS ended up at Bakersfield College or CSUB. Some made it to the UC system, Harvard and a variety of others (granted, we were a Catholic school with a little more push to go to college than the public high schools in Bakersfield -our county had the lowest HS-to-College rate in CA).

Why? I earned my places.

Does that make me pissed that others may have got in on lesser numbers?
No. Because none of my classmates are idiots.

Especially here in law school they're all proving they can handle it as well as the others -in many cases better than those who got in with higher scores.

I can't stand whining from either side, but unless you know what life is like for another growing up in a very different environment, don't pretend to know (I've taught in a few inner city LA high schools, and let me tell you they are worlds apart from anything I've ever seen).

Now if you want to point exclusively to problems with how people are tested, I'll probably agree on some points.

Sounds like your having a problem with the State's English Placement not Academia as a whole. And Affirmative action has no bearing your problems with english testing.

Your rant lacks cohesiveness and structure. You obviously need those remedial english classes.

And you'll learn in the next few years that college/university is bullshit in general.
The real benefit of getting a degree is that people know you'll stick through the shit to get the goal accomplished.

Eric said:

Asians hardly have a easier time getting into college.

In fact, it's almost always the exact opposite.

Edit: Put harder when I meant to put easier...whoops.

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I am not focusing this specifically on asians, or on any race; I am talking about in general. The example of my japanese girlfriend didn't have to do with getting accepted into college, it had to do with getting accepted in a certain class.

It really depends on what state school, what caliber of the students and how the administration deals with class schedules etc to get what you need to graduate. Im at Suny Binghamton, a state school, with a graduation rate of 70% after 4 years and 80% after 6 years. If 70 percent can graduate early then most students can do it in four years. If you come into college with AP credit or community college credit like I did then you can graduate in 3 years if you want.
My school has an onine website called the "DARS" where it gives you an audit based on what credits you have and what classes you need to complete for your major. If your school is that ass backwards that it can't even place you in your right classes then you should transfer.

norton9478 said:

Sounds like your having a problem with the State's English Placement not Academia as a whole. And Affirmative action has no bearing your problems with english testing.

Your rant lacks cohesiveness and structure. You obviously need those remedial english classes.

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English was an example. I don't need a perfect essay structure when I make a post on a forum. Thanks for being a smartass though.

Included Caribians in my list of ppl who go to albany cuz they can't get into bingo.

Woo Hoo!!!

SUNY Vestal (I'm a Local)...

I went to albany. It's where all the Caribs, asians and whites who can't get into Suny Binghamton Go. Funny thing is, My brother and I both got into Binghamton but choose albany.

heh... I never would have known that you were from vestal . Do you live closer towards endicott or closer towards downtown? I know some "townies" lol that go to binghamton and they seem like very nice people.. alot of people her stereotype the town because were all from NYC basically lol

WAIT A FUCKING SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Didn't the CAli System outlaw Affirmitive action?????

Bobak said:

Blah-blah-blah.

I am not affected by affirmative action, yet I got into a top tier university and a top 20 law school.

many of my classmates in HS ended up at Bakersfield College or CSUB. Some made it to the UC system, Harvard and a variety of others (granted, we were a Catholic school with a little more push to go to college than the public high schools in Bakersfield -our county had the lowest HS-to-College rate in CA).

Why? I earned my places.

Does that make me pissed that others may have got in on lesser numbers?
No. Because none of my classmates are idiots.

Especially here in law school they're all proving they can handle it as well as the others -in many cases better than those who got in with higher scores.

I can't stand whining from either side, but unless you know what life is like for another growing up in a very different environment, don't pretend to know.

Now if you want to point exclusively to problems with how people are tested, I'll probably agree on some points.

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I do not think that my girlfriend, or other people that have gotten into higher classes than me are idiots; I just do not think I should be where I am at now and I feel that ELM testing is far from accurate. I have a girl in my elementary level math class who is incredibley smart and can work calculus equations. I believe that ELM testing is somthing that was just started though so you probably didn't have to take it. I am regretting even putting affirmative action in the mix since my main complaints are against the testing and not racial issues.

Frame Gride 2 said:

heh... I never would have known that you were from vestal . Do you live closer towards endicott or closer towards downtown? I know some "townies" lol that go to binghamton and they seem like very nice people.. alot of people her stereotype the town because were all from NYC basically lol

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Binghamton is a redneck shithole. No Dobts about it.

I'm actualy from Marathon (a rural Redneck shithole), 20mi south of Bingo. Now I live in Cortland. I used to go to bingo all the time, not so much anymore.

Kennedy's Fried Chicken Is the SHit....
Is the Icehouse still running? That place used to be Easy STD central.

norton9478 said:

WAIT A FUCKING SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Didn't the CAli System outlaw Affirmitive action?????

Click to expand...

Shhh! They may have banned quota systems but they still care about what bubble you fill in next to ethnicity. They just like to think that it doesn't affect their decision.

Not that I'm saying they should get rid of the bubbles. Otherwise you would just have to write an essay with the phrase "raised by migrant farm workers."

norton9478 said:

I'm actualy from Marathon, 20mi south of Bingo. Now I live in Cortland. I used to go to bingo all the time, not so much anymore.

Kennedy's Fried Chicken Is the SHit....
Is the Icehouse still running? That place used to be Easy STD central.

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yup icehouse is still running and the rat is where everyone goes to "hook up" lol

Eric said:

Shhh! They may have banned quota systems but they still care about what bubble you fill in next to ethnicity. They just like to think that it doesn't affect their decision.

Not that I'm saying they should get rid of the bubbles. Otherwise you would just have to write an essay with the phrase "raised by migrant farm workers."

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Well Quotas have been bannded for over 30 Years. Cali recently oulawed most everything else regarding race.

Ever since then, blacks and hispanics have been pushed out of the Magnate Cali State schools and Asians have filled them up.

Bobak said:

Especially here in law school they're all proving they can handle it as well as the others -in many cases better than those who got in with higher scores.

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This supports my point that testing is not accurate. Even though most of your classmates are older and didn't have to take ELM's it still shows that testing in general is not an accurate test of knowledge in a subject.

Part of college should be learning how to socialize, and having people from terrible backgrounds around anyway helps expose you to that more than you would. There are some really bad high schools schools in this country, but we should still let those people have the chance at a real good education. Of course, that doesn't mean it should have anything to do with race, but I'm just saying that getting higher scores and working hard shouldn't get you in to a school over somoene else who had lesser scores if that person had to deal with a shit school system. The real problem with colleges now is how people are pushed to go even when there's no reason for it. I wish it wasn't considered lower class to be a plumber or something. We should respect these jobs a lot more than we do... Everyone goes to college it seems like, but not everyone has a reason to be there. It's a good experience to have, but there are other ways to have good social experiences...

dmhawkmoon said:

Part of college should be learning how to socialize, and having people from terrible backgrounds around anyway helps expose you to that more than you would. There are some really bad high schools schools in this country, but we should still let those people have the chance at a real good education. Of course, that doesn't mean it should have anything to do with race, but I'm just saying that getting higher scores and working hard shouldn't get you in to a school over somoene else who had lesser scores if that person had to deal with a shit school system. The real problem with colleges now is how people are pushed to go even when there's no reason for it. I wish it wasn't considered lower class to be a plumber or something. We should respect these jobs a lot more than we do... Everyone goes to college it seems like, but not everyone has a reason to be there. It's a good experience to have, but there are other ways to have good social experiences...

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I see what you are saying when you state that people come from different backgrounds and schools. I agree with what you said there, I never thought of it that way.

One day there was a black man and a mexican man and they both died from
horrible affirmative action cancer. That was a good day, indeed.

We should only let the blax in school.

That'll fix some problems in society

Magnaflux said:

We should only let the blax in school.

That'll fix some problems in society

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Stop being a racist, you fuck.

shir0 said:

Stop being a racist, you fuck.

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P.S. I regret nothing

Affirmative action is total bullshit, totally unfair, and greatly detracts from the achievements of minorities who make it through based on their own merit. Who gives a fuck if some of them end up doing better than people with high scores? That's simple statistics, and of course it will happen occasionally. More often than not, however, the people with the better credentials perform better. Sure, standardized testing isn't perfect. Nothing is, really. But it's still one of the best measuring sticks for gauging how someone is going to perform.

The problem is that most people don't even have a basic understanding of statistics, and think that just because something is the best way of doing something, then it shouldn't ever be wrong. That's just silly - nothing's perfect.

ELM testing...? I think you mean EPT.

In the EPT I tested out of it and was placed in a higher end english class... but I've always been weak in Math, I tested very poorly on the ELM, and took 2 remedial classes (essentially AlgebraI/II *again*)

I did well in both those classes and now am taking a Business Calculus class, I really feel had I came straight into college into Calc I would have been really fucked...

But after those remedial classes I feel alot stronger in my Math Skills, and gradually Math is no longer my weakness... NOW NOTHING CAN STOP ME!!!
mwhahahahah

So yah... I think the ELM is good.

PS I'm a Sophmore at San Francisco State University (California State University)
Business Major - Information Technologies
W/Minor in Film