UN Oil-For-Food corruption -- Goes right to the top...

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/29/oil.for.food.kojo.annan/index.html

I'm not convinced there was a great "keep Iraq in power to rape their riches" conspiracy... but the more I hear.. the more I'm able to be convinced..

Wow.

DevilRedeemed · Nov 30, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/29/oil.for.food.kojo.annan/index.html

I'm not convinced there was a great "keep Iraq in power to rape their riches" conspiracy... but the more I hear.. the more I'm able to be convinced..

Wow.

nah man... its called opportunism. it shows how corrupt some parties are, how criminality and legitimate business practices blur. kind of like enron. but I wouldn't jump to conclusions the way you do. its too simplistic.
by the same stroke you could say the war was to rape Iraq of its riches too - you said "keep Iraq in power to rape their riches" - not Saddam. doesn't mean its true or black and white.

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
nah man... its called opportunism. it shows how corrupt some parties are, how criminality and legitimate business practices blur. kind of like enron. but I wouldn't jump to conclusions that way. its too simplistic.

My question is this, though.. how come (and don't take this as implicit approval of anything...) the Bush Administration and its allies get lambasted.. but the UN leadership gets a free pass?

There's a lot more evidence for this than the conspiracy to invade iraq for haliburton's sake...

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
nah man... its called opportunism. it shows how corrupt some parties are, how criminality and legitimate business practices blur. kind of like enron. but I wouldn't jump to conclusions the way you do. its too simplistic.
by the same stroke you could say the war was to rape Iraq of its riches too - you said "keep Iraq in power to rape their riches" - not Saddam. doesn't mean its true or black and white.

What do you think the chances that Michael Moore will do a movie about this? It's more up his alley... just watch Roger and Me.

:tickled:

DevilRedeemed · Nov 30, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
My question is this, though.. how come (and don't take this as implicit approval of anything...) the Bush Administration and its allies get lambasted.. but the UN leadership gets a free pass?

There's a lot more evidence for this than the conspiracy to invade iraq for haliburton's sake...

no there isn't "more evidence" - and one thing doesn't make another 'righter'. anyway its the UN as an institution that should be upheld and if need be, changed from within. Annan is a puppet. a completely incompetent poster boy. this doesn't make the UN's importance any less evident.
no matter how you paint the canvas, you can't change the picture. oil for food involved everyone and their uncle. it was insane.

DevilRedeemed · Nov 30, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
What do you think the chances that Michael Moore will do a movie about this? It's more up his alley... just watch Roger and Me.

Michael Moore's movies are fundamentally comedic and thus enjoyable. There is a certain tongue in cheek quality about them. and that's the hook. so bring it on.

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
no there isn't "more evidence" - and one thing doesn't make another 'righter'. anyway its the UN as an institution that should be upheld and if need be, changed from within. Annan is a puppet. a completely incompetent poster boy. this doesn't make the UN's importance any less evident.
no matter how you paint the canvas, you can't change the picture. oil for food involved everyone and their uncle. it was insane.

You're right.. it doesn't make another "righter". I'm pointing out the fact that they ARE indeed EQUALLY corrupt, but because their POV on a war has gotten them a relatively free pass from the press and Liberals, for the same thing they're slamming the current administration from.

I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy by the anti-bush lobby. They're very righteous and justified when you disagree.. but when they're an implicit ally... well.. it's "opportunism" and he's a puppet.

..because it involved everyone, also... doesn't make it right or less wrong.

galfordo · Nov 30, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/29/oil.for.food.kojo.annan/index.html

I'm not convinced there was a great "keep Iraq in power to rape their riches" conspiracy... but the more I hear.. the more I'm able to be convinced..

Wow.

I'm not yet convinced that that was the case either - in fact, I think simple greed is more likely to be the culprit. It does put things in perspective, however, and really lets you know how these supposedly humanitarian agencies operate. For me, this is just another reason why I'm glad we snubbed them.

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
Michael Moore's movies are fundamentally comedic and thus enjoyable. There is a certain tongue in cheek quality about them. and that's the hook. so bring it on.

No, this'll be one of those things he so convienently "omits" from his movie.

norton9478 · Nov 30, 2004

of course he will emit it.

HE IS NOT A JOURNALIST!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS NOT HIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!

Fox news does a wonderfull job of bringing this topic up. As well as the 50,000 Irai's that the US government has "Freed".

Moorre's job is to bring up the stories that fall through the cracks. The ones that the mainstreem news misses. This
Bush Reading My Pet Goat for 7 Minutes
The Bin Ladens geting tickets out
Buisness Relationships between the Saudis, Bin Ladens and the Bush's
Buisness Relatinships between the Bush's, Unocal and Karzi.

I don't care how much corruption the Oil for Food program had. It's no reason to topple Sadam. It doesn't make WOMD's Appear in the Desert. It doesn't change the fact that BUSH FUCKED UP.

The US gov is probably more upsett that they didn;t get in on it.

YOu don't have to look to sadam to find an Opressive goverment pumping oil while shitting on it's people. Just look to the Saudi's/.

evil wasabi · Nov 30, 2004

whoa...

so for the past 15 years we've been living with the fear that we as Americans should not ever travel near Iraq, for fear of our safety, knowing that Iraq is our enemy.

And you think it's good to leave them be. But some people would say that if you got a criminal in your town, and the sheriff isn't kicking that criminal out, then the Sherff ain't doin his job. Now the Sherff has done kicked out Saddamn and you wanna complain Saddam wasn't so bad. Ain't that something else...

DevilRedeemed · Nov 30, 2004

wasabi said:
whoa...

so for the past 15 years we've been living with the fear that we as Americans should not ever travel near Iraq, for fear of our safety, knowing that Iraq is our enemy.

And you think it's good to leave them be. But some people would say that if you got a criminal in your town, and the sheriff isn't kicking that criminal out, then the Sherff ain't doin his job. Now the Sherff has done kicked out Saddamn and you wanna complain Saddam wasn't so bad. Ain't that something else...

that logic is so twisted it can do time travel. was this war just to make a giant landing strip for americans so they can feel safe? erm..
Saddam was nasty, but come on. you want to go after criminals you have a whole continent of them in Africa.

happy happy joy joy song for everyone!

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

DevilRedeemed said:
you want to go after criminals you have a whole continent of them in Africa.

Actually.. shorter Trip...

1st Ave. and E. 46th St.
New York, NY, USA

Seems there's a good share of 'em there.

There are no good guys anymore.

SonGohan · Nov 30, 2004

I'll wait until Metal Slug posts and tells me what I should think about all this.

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

SonGohan said:
I'll wait until Metal Slug posts and tells me what I should think about all this.

He's late.. because he can't bear to see the mighty, omnipotent and just UN brought down by three boxes of wheaties and a gallon of Super Unleaded.

:kekeke:

jethrek · Nov 30, 2004

So, let's say we have equal corruiption on both sides (overlooking the fact that the CIA has prevented American institutions to be implicated by "protecting their privacy").

We're still left with the problem that France, Germany, etc...were right about WMD's, and we were wrong.

Also, it's a little easier to see a Halliburton conspiracy seeing as the US did everything in its power to invade Iraq, and the UN really only said "Well, that's not cool with us" (of course, the UN not having any power when its members don't back it kinda prevents them anyway)

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

jethrek said:
So, let's say we have equal corruiption on both sides (overlooking the fact that the CIA has prevented American institutions to be implicated by "protecting their privacy").

We're still left with the problem that France, Germany, etc...were right about WMD's, and we were wrong.

Also, it's a little easier to see a Halliburton conspiracy seeing as the US did everything in its power to invade Iraq, and the UN really only said "Well, that's not cool with us" (of course, the UN not having any power when its members don't back it kinda prevents them anyway)

I think you're simplifying it too much.

People are expressing their ethos through fact, not the other way around. Which is wrong.

There's just no intellectual rigor to this. That's what's distressing. If michael Moore, the Democrats and pundits put as much fervor into this story.. which is on a much larger scale financially that the haliburton ties, I'd have no problem.

If both sides are equal, then you treat them the same.

It's not easier to see a Haliburton conspiracy, basically because there's not as much damning evidence as there is against the UN. Figures in the UN are admitting to wrongdoing.. which is more than the liberals can put up. Does that make it right? NO.... but if you're going to rake people over the coals in the name of justice and integrity, make sure you string up members on your side should they be guilty of the same sins.

norton9478 · Nov 30, 2004

wasabi said:
whoa...

so for the past 15 years we've been living with the fear that we as Americans should not ever travel near Iraq, for fear of our safety, knowing that Iraq is our enemy.

And you think it's good to leave them be. But some people would say that if you got a criminal in your town, and the sheriff isn't kicking that criminal out, then the Sherff ain't doin his job. Now the Sherff has done kicked out Saddamn and you wanna complain Saddam wasn't so bad. Ain't that something else...

Well Many Americans (mostly Journalists) did visit Iraq up until March'03. They were given governmnet Minders to guide them and to protect them. During the war, the minders kept them out of harms way at one point telling angry Iraqis that the journalist was German and not US.

Today, I dare any western journalist to venture into Iraq without 100 Soldiers.

jethrek · Nov 30, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
I think you're simplifying it too much.

People are expressing their ethos through fact, not the other way around. Which is wrong.

There's just no intellectual rigor to this. That's what's distressing. If michael Moore, the Democrats and pundits put as much fervor into this story.. which is on a much larger scale financially that the haliburton ties, I'd have no problem.

If both sides are equal, then you treat them the same.

It's not easier to see a Haliburton conspiracy, basically because there's not as much damning evidence as there is against the UN. Figures in the UN are admitting to wrongdoing.. which is more than the liberals can put up. Does that make it right? NO.... but if you're going to rake people over the coals in the name of justice and integrity, make sure you string up members on your side should they be guilty of the same sins.

Did you put as much effort into covering the Halliburton case as you are this? I didn't notice it myself...

Pot. Kettle. Black.

The media has definitely given this attention, but the case just isn't as relevant int he light that if there was a conspiracy to stop the war, it failed. This pus a lot more burden to justify one's actions on the U.S., who invaded Iraq. Furthermore, the media really has left Halliburton alone except int hat it's been caught cheating taxpayers repeatedly in Iraq, else we'd hardly have heard a word of it. The "conspiracy" side of the Halliburton story wasn't touched by the press with a ten foot pole. This pretty much only touches ona conspiracy side, because the only other thing you cans ay is that "money corrupts"...which is a big "well, duh"

The reason things are not being treated as equal is because they aren't.

Tacitus · Nov 30, 2004

jethrek said:
Did you put as much effort into covering the Halliburton case as you are this? I didn't notice it myself...

Pot. Kettle. Black.

It's not my job. I'm just here to point out this. The haliburton thing has been covered infinitely in countless threads on this board. There's no need for me to open a new thread on it.

I also don't condone their actions. What do you want me to say?

No hypocrisy..

norton9478 · Nov 30, 2004

Vice President Dick Cheney...

Meet Spiro Agnew.

jethrek · Nov 30, 2004

MichaelMoore said:
It's not my job. I'm just here to point out this. The oil-for-food thing has been covered infinitely in countless stories. There's no need for me to omake a film on it.

I also don't condone their actions. What do you want me to say?

No hypocrisy..

Not trying to start an argument, but surely you can see that they can say the same thing.

UN Oil-For-Food corruption -- Goes right to the top...

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