Alexander The Disaster.

Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
3,583
Uhg...I just got back from this 3 hour film, and I'm sitting here really trying to think of things that are redeemable within it.

I've always liked Oliver Stone's movies for the most part, and really, he has a great track record to go on: Wall Street, Platoon, Natural Born Killers, JFK, Born on the Fourth of July, The Doors. So, needless to say, I was rather optimistic about what I thought was going to be a decent biopic about King Alexander of Macedonia. Boy, was I ever let down :oh_no:

The movie got a bunch of pre-release hype about it's potrayal of ancient Greek gayness, particularly Alexander's. I didn't really care about it, as long as it wasn't going to be overdone and ridiculous. What you get is just that, ridiculous and overdone. But, that's not even really the biggest reason to why this movie is a disaster. Please, don't let the subplot of homosexuality distract you from noticing the rest of the ways in which this movie underperforms.

First, I'll admit that the great life of Alexander can not possibly be dealt with in a mere 3 hour movie. However, this film doesn't really ever have any focus. Stone has placed scenes that while important in the story, have not much context leaving me without any stake in it. What I mean is, take the big set-piece battle scene at Gargamella. It happens very early on in the film, with Stone just skipping over years and years of important battles that took place previous to Gargamella, by having Anthony Hopkins(Ptolemy, psuedo narrator) just kind point out with a few short sentences what Alexander did before. It's ridiculous!

Sure you can't film every battle Alexander ever fought, but you also don't just jump right to the BIG one, which of course is the first time in the movie where we see Dorius III. Stone doesn't take ANY TIME WHATSOEVER to explore what drove Alexander to conquer Dorius! He's just there all of a sudden, the King of the Persians, there he is, the bad guy Alexander must defeat. We don't know why, we don't know the circumstances that brought Alexander this far east up to that point. The audience has no stake in whats happening, its just an obligatory battle scene! Really, I make it sound ridiculous, but this is exactly what it's like!

Yes, yes, the gayness is way over the top. I might as well talk about it, and this in and of itself is where Stone wastes so much time, that if he would have used this space to do more backstory on Alexander's personality and ambition, what drove him, more on his relationship with his father etc...he could have saved the movie...I'm not joking.

There are so many unnecessary conversations between Alexander and Hephestian to drive the point home about them 'loving' eachother. I mean really, you just want to get up and leave. It's not because it's disgusting, because the movie never shows any Gay sex or anything, mostly just innuendo left for the viewer to make up his own mind. But, it's just not needed! There's too many glaring looks between Alexander/Hephestian, and Alexander/Bagoas...so many that you wonder when the gay sex is going to begin! No, really it's horrible. Stone has Alexander, upon reaching Babylon (which is the best part of the movie) and entering a harem full of absolutely gorgeous Persian women, but has Alexander instantly fixate on Bagoas, this pretty looking servant guy, and exchange sexy stares. OK I GET IT, enough already. More backstory please!

I don't like the way Stone screws with the timeline either. I mean this movie is all over the place. It starts with Alexanders death, jumps back to his young childhood, flashes forward to his adolescence, and jumps to his adulthood all too quickly. Aristotle has what amounts to a bit part in the movie, with a total time on screen of about 3 minutes, I shit you not! The man who probably had the most effect on Alexanders personality and thought process gets 3 minutes! This is what I'm talking about, Stone spends the better part of 1 1/2 hours making sure you know for a fact that Alexander was at best Bi-Sexual, yet Aristotle gets 3 minutes to teach him about whatever.

Back to the timeline, Stone goes BACK 8 years near the end of the movie to revisit King Phillips assassination. It was done well enough, but here there's no real reason to jump all around like that. Why go back? This movie would just have been alot better had it been a linear work, so that you get a feel for the way Alexander's life was shaped.

Alot of people complain about Stone portraying Alexander with Blonde hair. I don't even care about all that, and you know what, by itself I think its OK to give someone that is historically special or 'GREAT' a trait that makes them stand out above everyone else. This actually does help the idea that perhaps He was the son of Zeus. No biggie, this is one thing where its ok, it's a movie, but Farrel does have a particularly bad dye job, bad roots and all. He looks too much like some southern Cali surfer dude.

I'm pretty let down about this movie, its not what I wanted or expected at all. It's a disaster for Stone and box office is showing just that.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
As I greek american, I piss on this movie.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
3,583
buttasuperb said:
Does Jolie show her tatas?

No...she looks hot though. The best I've seen her and I don't think she's really that hot.

Which brings me to another point I didn't write. The accents were ridiculous too. You have all kinds of accents in the Macedonian army; Scottish, Irish, British...all kinds of crazy shit. Angelina Jolie's in particular was something I can't describe other than you might think she was playing the lead role as Queen Vampire for Underworld 2. Stupid stupid stupid.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
Scorpion_ said:
No...she looks hot though. The best I've seen her and I don't think she's really that hot.

Which brings me to another point I didn't write. The accents were ridiculous too. You have all kinds of accents in the Macedonian army; Scottish, Irish, British...all kinds of crazy shit. Angelina Jolie's in particular was something I can't describe other than you might think she was playing the lead role as Queen Vampire for Underworld 2. Stupid stupid stupid.

Yes, exactly my problem. They cast dudes who are mega out of place and go even further by giving fucking alexander bleach blonde hair? That dude was originally hook nosed and wasnt mr 'sexy', but they wont show that. They show you the stereotypical view of shit that hollywood made up that never existed.
They repeatedly do this with med history. Its okay if you cant find anyone else, but it gets to a point where it brain washes people stupid enough to swallow it.

Christ wasnt nordic and neither was alexander.

alexander.mosaic.jpg


Gee, not much resemblance huh?

I think unproperly accented actors playing roles of ancient people need to be jailed and beated repeatedly. The cast is to conveinant.

Its like if they made a movie on genghis khan and the dude playing him was brad pitt. Why is this accepted, you know if that went down, people would never shut up about it?
 

Nesagwa

Beard of Zeus,
20 Year Member
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
21,322
The discovery channel or PBS will probably have a historically accurate movie based on him pretty soon. They always do when these historical movies come out.
 

Zeekade Zarathos

Krizalids Fashion Designer
Joined
Apr 4, 2001
Posts
1,845
Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:
Its like if they made a movie on genghis khan and the dude playing him was brad pitt.


Will John Wayne do?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/

Honestly, every single review I've read has said Alexander is a collossal miscalculation, but I've just been plugging my fingers into my ears and singining La-LA LA LA LA-la-la-la because I want this to be good so badly.

I'll see it eventually.
 

aria

Former Moderator
Joined
Dec 4, 1977
Posts
39,546
I thought it was a pretty big mess, but it still had some saving graces:

Colin Farrel just died in that role. Bad miscasting.

The sets and scenery were stunning.

Jolie gave one of the best "bad" performances I've seen in a while.
Val Kilmer was great but completely underused.

[semi-spoiler]
The movie was at its best when it was trying to explain Alexander's changing view of the "barbarians" he was conquering and his vision for uniting the world and its people. That and the changing face of his army was quite interesting and impressive. They also did a reasonable job showing his bisexuality. Leto was quite good, though they needed to tone down the eye make-up. They also did a good job on Roxane: before the movie had him come out and say it, when I saw her I immediately thought (well, its his mom).
[End spoiler]


Spectacular failure. Might be worth watching if you're interested in the material.

I read a review that put it well:
- Troy had a straightforward story but no real soul, talent, or intellectual bend
- Alexander has talent, tries to hit some heady material, and does have a passion behind hit, but without any story it really, really crashes into itself.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
Bobak said:
I thought it was a pretty big mess, but it still had some saving graces:

Colin Farrel just died in that role. Bad miscasting.

The sets and scenery were stunning.

Jolie gave one of the best "bad" performances I've seen in a while.
Val Kilmer was great but completely underused.

[semi-spoiler]
The movie was at its best when it was trying to explain Alexander's changing view of the "barbarians" he was conquering and his vision for uniting the world and its people. That and the changing face of his army was quite interesting and impressive. They also did a reasonable job showing his bisexuality. Leto was quite good, though they needed to tone down the eye make-up. They also did a good job on Roxane: before the movie had him come out and say it, when I saw her I immediately thought (well, its his mom).
[End spoiler]


Spectacular failure. Might be worth watching if you're interested in the material.

I read a review that put it well:
- Troy had a straightforward story but no real soul, talent, or intellectual bend
- Alexander has talent, tries to hit some heady material, and does have a passion behind hit, but without any story it really, really crashes into itself.


I like val kilmer, but there is this rumor going that he has one of the meanest spoiled personalities off stage... =(
I loved him in tombstone, he was such a bad ass in that role. The movie wasnt super great, but it had a nicer cast then this.

They should have had Joaquin phoenix play one of these roles. He was so cool in gladiator.. There were so many choices, but it just cannot work with the ones they chose. He has this creepy expression that is great for so many roles.

I am just so tired of these movies that are presented with the most miscasted people. Especially in a heavily judgmental hellenic community, where this movie can almost be seen as a insult.
 

Big Shady

Kyukyogenryu Black Belt
15 Year Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2003
Posts
4,945
Yet watch this film still get nominated for some oscars :shame:
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
Big Shady said:
Yet watch this film still get nominated for some oscars :shame:


Yeah. I remember when nightmare before christmas came out. That movie was a masterpiece of creativity, and it wasnt until many years later that it got any credit. Which is even worse, cause JUN PLANNING turned it into a cesspool of mainstream marketing.
I remember when some of the hardcore nightmare collectors would spend hundreds on the original stuff released. Only to have JUN pollute the scene with readily available crud..
 

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,961
Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:
I like val kilmer, but there is this rumor going that he has one of the meanest spoiled personalities off stage... =(

Haha....he belongs to that special league of fuckwad actors with whom non-celebrities cannot look directly in the eyes.

J-lo and Sly Stallone have this same problem. Stallone's servants get fired for looking him in the eyes or turning their back on him.....they also have to back out of any room he or his wife is in as well LOLz.




As for Alexander's appearance: The blonde hair could very well be a possibility....The region he is from was like a convergent point for Thracians, Ilyrians, etc....The Illyrians, in particular, were blonde historically speaking....and in countries like Albania there are some whose features (like green/yellow eyes, Blond hair) remain intact even after hundreds of years of Turkish occupation.

Hey, you never know.....

I'd have to agree, though....Alexander likely bore resemblance to a typical dude from southern europe; dark hair, skin and eyes.

I don't think he was as gay as they made him out to be either. For the most part, Oliver Stones film can be described as faggot pandering at best.
 
Last edited:

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Posts
12,886
Currently a 5.6 on IMDB. Ouch.
 

norton9478

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Posts
34,075
Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:
Yes, exactly my problem. They cast dudes who are mega out of place and go even further by giving fucking alexander bleach blonde hair? That dude was originally hook nosed and wasnt mr 'sexy', but they wont show that. They show you the stereotypical view of shit that hollywood made up that never existed.
They repeatedly do this with med history. Its okay if you cant find anyone else, but it gets to a point where it brain washes people stupid enough to swallow it.

Christ wasnt nordic and neither was alexander.

alexander.mosaic.jpg


Gee, not much resemblance huh?

I think unproperly accented actors playing roles of ancient people need to be jailed and beated repeatedly. The cast is to conveinant.

Its like if they made a movie on genghis khan and the dude playing him was brad pitt. Why is this accepted, you know if that went down, people would never shut up about it?


Why not just make another non-english film?
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
Sp0o/\/?! said:
Haha....he belongs to that special league of fuckwad actors with whom non-celebrities cannot look directly in the eyes.

J-lo and Sly Stallone have this same problem. Stallone's servants get fired for looking him in the eyes or turning their back on him.....they also have to back out of any room he or his wife is in as well LOLz.




As for Alexander's appearance: The blonde hair could very well be a possibility....The region he is from was like a convergent point for Thracians, Ilyrians, etc....The Illyrians, in particular, were blonde historically speaking....and in countries like Albania there are some whose features (like green/yellow eyes, Blond hair) remain intact even after hundreds of years of Turkish occupation.

Hey, you never know.....

I'd have to agree, though....Alexander likely bore resemblance to a typical dude from southern europe; dark hair, skin and eyes.

I don't think he was as gay as they made him out to be either. For the most part, Oliver Stones film can be described as faggot pandering at best.


The skin isnt always dark, its toned. Its like the japanese. Kind of yellowish. It depends though. The blonde element was almost always a extreme minority. Check this site out to get a idea:

http://dienekes.com/greek/
Like the italians we come in many colors.

Also, as many people seem to believe that dark skin is a direct answer to a mixing people, its not entirely true. Though its a nice excuse people love to use to classify southern euro's as mixed with blacks without proof of it. It all depends on the individual. You are indeed correct on the blonde issue. My grandfather was a greek and he was born blonde. He looks German.. This a extreme minority of mediterranean peoples though. It doesnt signify some racially pure class of ancient greece that many nordicists love to push into the mix..

Some ancient peoples did mix, its the idea as any other race though, from england to ireland. Some people even of the said race accept these things when they are not sure. Its not bad if you come from a line with this lineage, just get your facts straight. I just am tired of blanket statements. People going as far as to calling southern euro's the descendants of arabs and blah and etc.

OT but:
Some of the side by side comparisons are pretty interesting.
The greeks and italians I would like to believe to be the modern day descendants of the ancient peoples.. Even I have features that look like those statues. Since those damn statues lack any coloring most of the time, its easy to look and staple a profile onto it.

(Remember though that blonde doesnt signify race and nor does skin color.)

diadoumenos.jpg


greekfromtinos.jpg


That struck me as kinda creepy.
 

galfordo

Analinguist of the Year
15 Year Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
18,418
I stand by my original assessment of this film, in thinking that Farrell is pathetic with or without t3h c4wK in his mouth.

And Oliver Stone is ok I guess, but to me he sort of sticks out as one of those directors who just puts contraversial shit into movies so he can cash in on people's morbid and/or sexual fascinations. "Look at me, I can show how these great medevil conquerors were t3h gh3y!!!11!" That's wonderful, Ollie. :rolleyes:
 

ferrarimanf355

Bullets QB
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Posts
4,724
After perusing this thread, I swung over to Rotten Tomatoes to see how awful it really is. The rating there? 14 percent (17 fresh, 103 rotten).
The gory details are here.

Best quote:
"Alexander often seems a couple of heartbeats away from turning into a gay porno film."
-- Jeffrey Westhoff, NORTHWEST HERALD (CRYSTAL LAKE, IL)
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
3,583
ferrarimanf355 said:
After perusing this thread, I swung over to Rotten Tomatoes to see how awful it really is. The rating there? 14 percent (17 fresh, 103 rotten).
The gory details are here.

Best quote:

omg those quips are funny. I ventured into the forum there and found a good line that sums it up quite well:

"Its certainly looking as if Stone has delivered the Turkey just in time for Thanksgiving."

haha...indeed.
 

Zeekade Zarathos

Krizalids Fashion Designer
Joined
Apr 4, 2001
Posts
1,845
Scorpion_ said:
omg those quips are funny.

"One of the year's authentic disasters, the kind of shlockbuster that at first invites derision, then, as the hours drag on, pity."

That one's the best, and saddest.

It's got to be better than Troy, though, a movie I genuinely despise.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,096
Zeekade Zarathos said:
"One of the year's authentic disasters, the kind of shlockbuster that at first invites derision, then, as the hours drag on, pity."

That one's the best, and saddest.

It's got to be better than Troy, though, a movie I genuinely despise.

HAHAH Troy..

Why dont they just do shit on englands history and cut the crap?
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
3,583
Lord Wolfgang Krauser said:
HAHAH Troy..

Why dont they just do shit on englands history and cut the crap?

You think the recent shit is bad? Now next year we are going to be blessed with the latest ancient conqueror movie courtesy of Hollywood: HANNIBAL THE CONQUEROR starring....................................wait........................................wait for it.................................
.
.
.
.Vin Diesel.

I wish I could sell ridiculous by the pound, I'd make a killin in Hollywood.
 

Mr.Nemoperson

Bunker Buster
15 Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Posts
1,462
:) :( :rolleyes: :oh_no: :spock: :mad_2: :help: :eek_2: :crying: :mad:
That pretty much explains my mood sitting through this fuckin horrible movie. Stone makes it so he alienates everyone who sees the movie. All the history buffs will think its shit cause it skips so many things. And all the people who dont know shit about Alexander wont have any idea whats going on. Not that it matters cause everything that is there is really boring.
How could they make a three hour movie on Alexander the Great and only have two battle scenes?! (and not very good ones at that)
That documentary that was on the history channel was sooooooooooo much better then this piece of shit.
 
Top