China don't play games when it comes to hostage takers.

AztekNinja · Oct 8, 2004

http://braden.weblogger.com/2004/09/27

Now heres a question for you guys. Should the U.S implement a more aggressive stand against hostage takers? Should there be more "shoot to kill" instances instead of grinding the court process and wasting our tax money on keeping dirtbags in prison for life?

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

That is fucken awesome. I believe that is the way to do it. If there is a NO BULLSHIT aproach to crime there will be much fewer criminals. Shoot to kill at all times. If you arent a criminal then you have nothing to fear. If you are then you know the consequences for each of your actions.

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

It's always the same thing from Americans. Guns and killing and war will solve every problem. Right?? What ever happened to rehabilitation and helping people, even criminals. And I thought americans hated China for the way they treated their citizens. Now you applaud?

AztekNinja · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
It's always the same thing from Americans. Guns and killing and war will solve every problem. Right?? What ever happened to rehabilitation and helping people, even criminals. And I thought americans hated China for the way they treated their citizens. Now you applaud?

It's always the same thing from the Canadians... Hugging and kissing will solve every problem.... right? Listen, do you know how much money is spent keeping criminals alive for life in prison?

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
It's always the same thing from Americans. Guns and killing and war will solve every problem. Right?? What ever happened to rehabilitation and helping people, even criminals. And I thought americans hated China for the way they treated their citizens. Now you applaud?

Go back to the 51st state and hug a fucking pine tree you fucking frostback.

:loco:

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

AztekNinja said:
It's always the same thing from the Canadians... Hugging and kissing will solve every problem.... right? Listen, do you know how much money is spent keeping criminals alive for life in prison?

Yes Canada has no death Penalty. We give out life sentences. The welfare system is also expensive. Does that mean we should start killing off poor people? Thats not very good logic at all. And besides maybe the hugging and kissing does seem to be working. We're not at war with anyone and no one seems to be attacking us.

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

I dont think people can be rehabilitated. Look at the nail biters. They dont stop biting their nails. Look at the people that are compulsive. They dont change. Anyway I dont see people in prisons making major changes, earning their shair or doing anything to help my society. Maybe in Canada people like giving tax dollars to help lost causes, but I sure like keeping my money in my own pockets.

Orpheus · Oct 8, 2004

AztekNinja said:
do you know how much money is spent keeping criminals alive for life in prison?

Alot less than it takes for the uber retarted death row process here in america.
Being able to kill the criminals outright isn't neccesarily the answer. It's a seriouse revamping of our system that needs to be done. It's to god damn drawn out and inefficient.

neojedi · Oct 8, 2004

Someone told me that this is only half of the story, and that the morgue actually discovered that this guy was still alive several hours later. Anyone have a link for that part?

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
Does that mean we should start killing off poor people?

Nope. Just kill the useless and worthless poor ones. Not all poor people are worthless, but it seems like 90% of the welfare recepients are worthless cause they just dont feel like working. I can understand about the 10% that are absolutely disabled and cant do anything about it or the other ones that try to make a better situation for themselves, but as for the ones that live their whole lives just receiving welfare as the main option? YES! THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

ORPHEUS said:
Alot less than it takes for the uber retarted death row process here in america.
Being able to kill the criminals outright isn't neccesarily the answer. It's a seriouse revamping of our system that needs to be done. It's to god damn drawn out and inefficient.

Sorry to break the news to you, but Rehabilitation *does* not work on the whole. It's not because the methods aren't good.. they are, but aftercare and the invesment of public dollars in the process is exorbitant.

Want the best solution to crime? Known to keep criminals from comitting crimes *before* they happen?

Deterrence... make them think twice about comitting a crime.

What's the best deterrent? Death... and the fear of it. Make an example of one retard and the rest fall in line. Group Psychology and the human animal.... put the genuine fear of harm into someone.. long enough to give a moment of pause and WATCH the crime rate drop.

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

ORPHEUS said:
Alot less than it takes for the uber retarted death row process here in america.
Being able to kill the criminals outright isn't neccesarily the answer. It's a seriouse revamping of our system that needs to be done. It's to god damn drawn out and inefficient.

Thats right, it's the system that needs changes. Aren't some prisons in the US becoming privately owned now? I'm sure soon most of them will be and you won;t be paying so much for the criminals. Killing them isn't the answer.

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

ORPHEUS said:
Alot less than it takes for the uber retarted death row process here in america.
Being able to kill the criminals outright isn't neccesarily the answer. It's a seriouse revamping of our system that needs to be done. It's to god damn drawn out and inefficient.

I have been thinking about this problem for the last year. You are right and guess what? Someone is skimming off the top because of the confusion and they like it that way. Its someone pretty close to the top also. Its hard to figure out who it is because there are so many people up there.

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

Mystic_flame said:
Nope. Just kill the useless and worthless poor ones. Not all poor people are worthless, but it seems like 90% of the welfare recepients are worthless cause they just dont feel like working. I can understand about the 10% that are absolutely disabled and cant do anything about it or the other ones that try to make a better situation for themselves, but as for the ones that live their whole lives just receiving welfare as the main option? YES! THEY SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

How about creating an economy that creates good jobs for these poor people. No one wants to go to work scrubbing toilets for the rest of their lives. Begin creating meaningful and good paying jobs. That could also cause a sharper decline in the amount of crime.

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
Thats right, it's the system that needs changes. Aren't some prisons in the US becoming privately owned now? I'm sure soon most of them will be and you won;t be paying so much for the criminals. Killing them isn't the answer.

No and No.

Rehabilitation centers and halfway houses are.. but if you think the criminal justice system is going to privatize, Welcome to Pluto.

No, killing isnt' the answer for everyone, but punishing a few so the masses realize there are consequences to their actions IS

There's no threat or punishment anymore that keeps the criminal archetype from comitting a crime anymore.

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
Sorry to break the news to you, but Rehabilitation *does* not work on the whole. It's not because the methods aren't good.. they are, but aftercare and the invesment of public dollars in the process is exorbitant.

Want the best solution to crime? Known to keep criminals from comitting crimes *before* they happen?

Deterrence... make them think twice about comitting a crime.

What's the best deterrent? Death... and the fear of it. Make an example of one retard and the rest fall in line. Group Psychology and the human animal.... put the genuine fear of harm into someone.. long enough to give a moment of pause and WATCH the crime rate drop.

I am in absolute concurence with your statements. The fear of the repercussions would keep people more in line. If you are already in complience with those rules then you have nothing to fear...

Once there is a NO TOLLERANCE rule a huge portion of the little crimes will disappear out of fear. You steal, you get your hands cut off. You rape and the twins go their seperate ways. You kill...well Then you get a big steak dinner before they light the logs below you on fire.

Orpheus · Oct 8, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
Sorry to break the news to you, but Rehabilitation *does* not work on the whole. It's not because the methods aren't good.. they are, but aftercare and the invesment of public dollars in the process is exorbitant.

Want the best solution to crime? Known to keep criminals from comitting crimes *before* they happen?

Deterrence... make them think twice about comitting a crime.

What's the best deterrent? Death... and the fear of it. Make an example of one retard and the rest fall in line. Group Psychology and the human animal.... put the genuine fear of harm into someone.. long enough to give a moment of pause and WATCH the crime rate drop.

Totally missed my point man. I will elaborate later, I have to go, but I hear what you are saying.

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
How about creating an economy that creates good jobs for these poor people. No one wants to go to work scrubbing toilets for the rest of their lives. Begin creating meaningful and good paying jobs. That could also cause a sharper decline in the amount of crime.

Some good reading for you...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_20_54/ai_92712409

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
How about creating an economy that creates good jobs for these poor people. No one wants to go to work scrubbing toilets for the rest of their lives. Begin creating meaningful and good paying jobs. That could also cause a sharper decline in the amount of crime.

..because in any given society.. SOME WILL SPLIT OFF FROM THE GROUP.

I'm sorry to piss on your left-wing view of things, but crimen cannot be stopped 100%. If you think it can, you're fooling yourself. Your best bet is to suppress it to a manageable level and accept that in a given group, people are going to deviate.

You have to have the lower class in order to motivate the rest of your society. That's why communism *didn't* work. People weren't motivated to excel. You can subsidize everyone and shoot inflation into the stratosphere, you can take all controls off and have bedlam, or find a happy medium.

No, I'm not giving you what I think the answer is, because I don't think there is one. There's no one right way to fix social problems. Just learn to acceptor deal with what humans do and are capable of.

Mystic_flame · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
How about creating an economy that creates good jobs for these poor people. No one wants to go to work scrubbing toilets for the rest of their lives. Begin creating meaningful and good paying jobs. That could also cause a sharper decline in the amount of crime.

I noticed that we arent all born created equal. Some are better than others. I dont mean being born into a rich family. I mean some impoverished people still climb to the top. This proves the strong from the weak. Creating a better position for a person without a capacity to handle that position only creates waste. You waste time, money and energy on keeping this person employed. This hurts everyone immediately. Now if you take that person away from society there will be less drag on society. There is only a certain amount of resources and it is spread as thin as it can be already. Spread it even thinner and you will have to take it away from someone that needs it. Eliminate the drag will provide everyone with more resources.

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

VanillaThunder said:
No and No.

Rehabilitation centers and halfway houses are.. but if you think the criminal justice system is going to privatize, Welcome to Pluto.

No, killing isnt' the answer for everyone, but punishing a few so the masses realize there are consequences to their actions IS

There's no threat or punishment anymore that keeps the criminal archetype from comitting a crime anymore.

Maybe I am mistaken but this link describes how there over 100 privately owned jails in the United States and many states are passing laws to allow companies to own private prisons.

Private Prisons

Tacitus · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
Maybe I am mistaken but this link describes how there over 100 privately owned jails in the United States and many states are passing laws to allow companies to own private prisons.

Private Prisons

100 of *how many*????

The criminal justice system isn't going to privatize jails as a wide-scale thing. That's what I was getting at.

when you do that, you open the floodgates to a slew of social problems and the end of american society. It just isn't goign to happen. This is just another passing fad in the new Criminal Justice system of america.

Freelancer · Oct 8, 2004

Mystic_flame said:
That is fucken awesome. I believe that is the way to do it. If there is a NO BULLSHIT aproach to crime there will be much fewer criminals. Shoot to kill at all times. If you arent a criminal then you have nothing to fear. If you are then you know the consequences for each of your actions.

Agreed 100%

evil wasabi · Oct 8, 2004

kobylka68 said:
It's always the same thing from Americans. Guns and killing and war will solve every problem. Right?? What ever happened to rehabilitation and helping people, even criminals. And I thought americans hated China for the way they treated their citizens. Now you applaud?

I would like to think rehabilitation works, but believe it or not, it's extremely expensive to rehabilitate, and the success rate of rehabilitation is very low.

something I learned from criminal law...

kobylka68 · Oct 8, 2004

Mystic_flame said:
I noticed that we arent all born created equal. Some are better than others. I dont mean being born into a rich family. I mean some impoverished people still climb to the top. This proves the strong from the weak. Creating a better position for a person without a capacity to handle that position only creates waste. You waste time, money and energy on keeping this person employed. This hurts everyone immediately. Now if you take that person away from society there will be less drag on society. There is only a certain amount of resources and it is spread as thin as it can be already. Spread it even thinner and you will have to take it away from someone that needs it. Eliminate the drag will provide everyone with more resources.

I'm not saying you should take an uneducated man and give him power. I am saying make jobs pay better. You are the richest nation in the world and you shouldn't have such a high percentage of people living in poverty. Why not take care of the citizens in your own country. We pay a high rate of tax in our country to keep welfare and healthcare. I would never complain about paying these high taxes and I haven;t been to hospital in many years but I know someone else needs it. You shouldn't just turn your back on the poor and expect them to go away.

China don't play games when it comes to hostage takers.

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